View Full Version : IMR 4166
IMR introduced a new powder recently:
http://www.imrpowder.com/images/4166HR.jpg
This fine, extruded propellant is the first in the series of Enduron Technology powders. The main features of the Enduron series are copper fouling eliminator, insensitivity to temperature changes, ideal loading density and being environmentally friendly. IMR 4166 is the perfect burn speed for cartridges like the 308 Win/7.62mm NATO, 22-250 Remington, 257 Roberts and dozens more. Positively, a versatile, match grade propellant.
http://www.imrpowder.com/shotpist.html
From what I've read elsewhere, it sounds like it's a faster than Varget, but slower than XBR. A nice middle ground for the heavier bullets and short grain extruded. I plan on picking some up. Sounds like it should work great with the Barnes TSX line due to the copper fouling eliminator.
Didn't Hodgdon come out with 3 new powders too?
CFE Pistol is the only I'm aware of. IMR = Hodgdon
CFE Pistol is the only I'm aware of. IMR = Hodgdon
Yep... There were 3 new rifle powders coming out. I can't remember if it was under the IMR or H lines... or if 4166 was one of them.
Ah... yes... found them... All IMR: 4166, 4451, and 7977.
3 new powders from their website:
http://www.imrpowder.com/press.html
The 4166 looks very promising for the heavy bullets. Plus it's short grain extruded so it should meter well. My LGS posted some in stock a few minutes ago. If I can get there today, I'm gonna pick some up.
This stuff is a little longer than I was hoping... I will try to drop it, but I don't mind trickling for a few hunting rounds if it gives excellent performance with the Barnes TSX line of bullets. This powder should work well with them due to the copper fouling reducer, but I'm not sure how well that actually works...:confused:
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If it works like cfe223 it will work very well. Cfe223 will even remove copper fouling that is already present.
If it works like cfe223 it will work very well. Cfe223 will even remove copper fouling that is already present.
I've seen it "work" in magazines and online, but most of the time those articles are just advertisements for the product. I'm really hoping this works pretty well, I've been wanting to develop a load for the 70gr TSX's without having to clean every few shots.
Cool! You have some already huh? The part that rubs me wrong is the "being environmentally friendly" part of the description.
I hope that just some marketing pussy bullshit and no indication of a drag in performance.
Cool! You have some already huh? The part that rubs me wrong is the "being environmentally friendly" part of the description.
I hope that just some marketing pussy bullshit and no indication of a drag in performance.
Yeah, I picked some up last night after work. I thought it wasn't suppose to hit shelves until January, but I dropped by my friendly local reloading store and they still had a few lbs.
I don't care about that environmentally friendliness crap as long as it performs well. But, looking at Hodgdon's load data, it shows it to be ~80fps slower than Varget. I'm gonna load some up and try to get some time to head out to the country where I can use my chrono.
Nice... can't wait to hear what you think. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for it around here too.
I've seen it "work" in magazines and online, but most of the time those articles are just advertisements for the product. I'm really hoping this works pretty well, I've been wanting to develop a load for the 70gr TSX's without having to clean every few shots.
I have used a fair amount of cfe223, and I still have a fair amount. I can say that the copper fouling eraser does work. I have not tried it on existing copper fouling, so I don't know if it works for that like they claim.
I also bought the cfe223 to work up a load for tsx/tsx bullets. I have not noticed the Barnes bullets fouling more than others, but I don't shoot them in large numbers.
I have used a fair amount of cfe223, and I still have a fair amount. I can say that the copper fouling eraser does work. I have not tried it on existing copper fouling, so I don't know if it works for that like they claim.
I also bought the cfe223 to work up a load for tsx/tsx bullets. I have not noticed the Barnes bullets fouling more than others, but I don't shoot them in large numbers.
It's good to know that it actually works. I still have a lb of the CFE223 from a few years ago, but I switched to strictly extruded powders and haven't messed with it much since.
I do plan to start the TSX load development on a clean, copper free barrel. I've just avoided working with these bullets due to the clean barrel requirement. When I started developing a load way back with Varget, I did notice the groups opening up quite a bit the more I shot them, though.
Will you be shooting the same barrel? It will be interesting to see if you get any sense of fouling reduction with the 4166.
Yeah, it will be the same 18"er. I will probably try it with a Noveske Recon barrel also.
Has anyone found any load data for these new powders? I couldn't find any on their website. Tried calling them to ask and they are closed on Fridays.
Has anyone found any load data for these new powders? I couldn't find any on their website. Tried calling them to ask and they are closed on Fridays.
IMR 4166 load data is available on Hodgdon's website.
Just an FYI, Hodgdon = IMR = Winchester
It's good to know that it actually works. I still have a lb of the CFE223 from a few years ago, but I switched to strictly extruded powders and haven't messed with it much since.
I do plan to start the TSX load development on a clean, copper free barrel. I've just avoided working with these bullets due to the clean barrel requirement. When I started developing a load way back with Varget, I did notice the groups opening up quite a bit the more I shot them, though.
I made the switch to extruded powders, and all the ball powder I have has been sitting ever since. I will probably use the tac, and cfe223 then get rid of the other rremaining ball powders I have. I might keep them for another powder drought, because I will take ball powder over no powder.
I may also test the cfe223 to see if it will remove existing copper. I was looking at my marlin 336, from a distance I thought I had rust. A close inspection revealed a lot of copper. So I may look if I can find some data using the cfe223, and see if it will remove the copper.
The only ball powder I get is when I buy XM193 to pull apart. I have a bastard AR that I run ball powder blaster ammo in.
I see both 8 pound and 1 pound available, I may pick up some of this.
I made the switch to extruded powders, and all the ball powder I have has been sitting ever since. I will probably use the tac, and cfe223 then get rid of the other rremaining ball powders I have. I might keep them for another powder drought, because I will take ball powder over no powder.
I may also test the cfe223 to see if it will remove existing copper. I was looking at my marlin 336, from a distance I thought I had rust. A close inspection revealed a lot of copper. So I may look if I can find some data using the cfe223, and see if it will remove the copper.
I would be really interested in seeing that. Have you found the CFE223 to be very sensitive to temperature changes? I'm guessing it's similar to TAC in burn rate and temperature sensitivity.
I picked up a pound of CFE223 to try yesterday. The velocities it can push in the new Hornady manual are phenomenal. 75gr bullets @ 2900 FPS (20" barrel). Should prove interesting to see how it loads and shoots.
I would be really interested in seeing that. Have you found the CFE223 to be very sensitive to temperature changes? I'm guessing it's similar to TAC in burn rate and temperature sensitivity.
I have not done a whole lot with it. I stumbled on to imr8208 at around the same time, so I kind of put off all the projects I had planned for the cfe223.
I have not done a whole lot with it. I stumbled on to imr8208 at around the same time, so I kind of put off all the projects I had planned for the cfe223.
Yeah, XBR is currently my favorite powder. It's some amazing stuff. New components seem to keep me intrigued though.
XBR is currently my favorite powder.
Me too. H322 gets me better accuracy, but XBR gets me great accuracy and hotter loads.
Submariner
11-17-14, 11:08
The only ball powder I get is when I buy XM193 to pull apart. I have a bastard AR that I run ball powder blaster ammo in.
Why do this? Do you use the cases with crimped primers for other purposes?
If anyone comes up with a good 4166 load for the M1 Garand, I would love to have it.
Why do this? Do you use the cases with crimped primers for other purposes?
I pulled some down and loaded my own Mk262 clone with XBR. Mainly for the crimped primers.
I pulled some down an loaded my own Mk262 clone with XBR. Mainly for the crimped primers.
Exactly. For defensive ammo, I run a pretty hot (near 5.56 mm pressure) load. I want virgin brass and crimped primers. I almost never have a case separate or pop any primers.... but Murphy's law and so forth.
Exactly. For defensive ammo, I run a pretty hot (near 5.56 mm pressure) load. I want virgin brass and crimped primers. I almost never have a case separate or pop any primers.... but Murphy's law and so forth.
The funny thing about Murphy is that the only popped primers I have had were from xm193.
The funny thing about Murphy is that the only popped primers I have had were from xm193.
That's exactly it. XM193 is loaded way too hot. Shooting the ammo as is nearly ruins the brass.
What I do is pull the 55 gr bullets, pool the powder, and re-use the powder trimming 1 to 2 full grains off of the powder charge for each recycled round.
I finally got around to loading up some ammo with stuff. I loaded 100 rounds of 70gr TSX's with assorted weights up to 23.0gr for load development on a few different rifles. I haven't shot it yet, but this stuff reminds me of Varget when trying to drop from a Uniflow... it sucks for loading in bulk. Not surprising since it's a longer cut extruded powder. For what I plan to use it for (hunting), it's not horrible. But still...
I will hopefully get out Wednesday to run it over a chrono during load development. It's supposed to be a VERY nice day down here.
What rifle are you hunting with? I saw the 4451 was ideal for 30.06 , which is what I have so I thought about trying that.
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What rifle are you hunting with? I saw the 4451 was ideal for 30.06 , which is what I have so I thought about trying that.
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This is for a few AR's. An 18" Rainier Ultramatch, a 16" Noveske Recon, and a 14.5 CL barrel. What specifically drew me to this powder is the copper fowling reducer in an extruded powder to use with notorious copper fowling bullets (Barnes TSX).
Grafs has these in 1 and 8 lb jugs per their email flier.
I would be really interested in seeing that. Have you found the CFE223 to be very sensitive to temperature changes? I'm guessing it's similar to TAC in burn rate and temperature sensitivity.
How temp sensitive is TAC? For some reason, even though it has a huge following around here, it is almost always available on the LGS shelf just north of me. Must be a distributor thing. I've thought of grabbing some for plinking ammo so I can save my extruded powders for precision ammo. Temps around here range from -15 before windchill a couple mornings ago to a little over 100 degrees in the summer.
It's weird what different areas have for powder. I haven't seen TAC in so long I don't even think about it.
I don't remember it being temp sensitive, but I loaded it so mild, I couldn't give a good opinion.
Grafs has these in 1 and 8 lb jugs per their email flier.
I still haven't had the chance to try this powder out. I've had some 70gr TAC-X (TSX) loaded up since I started this thread. Now that deer season is over, I plan to take it out to the country and see what we're working with.
How temp sensitive is TAC? For some reason, even though it has a huge following around here, it is almost always available on the LGS shelf just north of me. Must be a distributor thing. I've thought of grabbing some for plinking ammo so I can save my extruded powders for precision ammo. Temps around here range from -15 before windchill a couple mornings ago to a little over 100 degrees in the summer.
Not enough to worry about, but more than I would want for precision ammo. Check the email from Ramshot in post #52 of this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?14225-Ramshot-TAC&p=731263#post731263
I see TAC every now and then on the shelf around here in Houston, but I rarely buy it. I would rather use something else for for bulk 55gr ammo. If I don't have another option, I'll gladly use the TAC I do have.
I still haven't had the chance to try this powder out.
Does not compute!
Onyx-thanks for the link.
I finally got around to testing out some of this powder. I ran some loads over the chrono a few weeks ago with the Barnes 70gr TAC-X. I will say that Hodgdon's max recommended load is VERY conservative. I was using the 69gr load as it was .7gr hotter than the 70gr bullet they list.
I was only seeing ~2,500fps from an 18" barrel with the max recommended load and no pressure signs. I am going to bump it up until I start seeing pressure signs and report back. I would be happy to be around 2,600-2,650fps with this bullet, which I feel will need to be >1.0gr over max recommended.
texasgunhand
04-23-15, 12:25
Cabelas had some in store a few days ago, i was thinking i had never seen it before.
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