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View Full Version : Who's the Larger Threat? ISIL or Mexican Cartels?



montanadave
11-12-14, 14:12
Interesting op-ed piece from the Al Jazeera America website suggesting that American policies and perceptions surrounding the threat from ISIL are driven by our sunk costs in Iraq and post 9/11 animus towards Islam while largely ignoring the even greater security threat posed by the Mexican drug cartels currently ravaging Mexico and American border areas.

Link to the article: http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/10/isil-vs-mexican-drugcartelsunitedstatesislamophobia.html

While Al Jazeera certainly has their own political agenda, the numbers cited in the article with respect to the numbers of dead, the atrocities committed by the respective groups, and the comparison between the Islamist ideology driving ISIL and the pseudo-religious fervor which permeates the drug cartels are hard to ignore.

"A recent United Nations report estimated nearly 9,000 civilians have been killed and 17,386 wounded in Iraq in 2014, more than half since ISIL fighters seized large parts on northern Iraq in June. It is likely that the group is responsible another several thousand deaths in Syria. To be sure, these numbers are staggering. But in 2013 drug cartels murdered more than 16,000 people in Mexico alone, and another 60,000 from 2006 to 2012 — a rate of more than one killing every half hour for the last seven years. What is worse, these are estimates from the Mexican government, which is known to deflate the actual death toll by about 50 percent.

Statistics alone do not convey the depravity and threat of the cartels. They carry out hundreds of beheadings every year. In addition to decapitations, the cartels are known to dismember and otherwise mutilate the corpses of their victims — displaying piles of bodies prominently in towns to terrorize the public into compliance. They routinely target women and children to further intimidate communities. Like ISIL, the cartels use social media to post graphic images of their atrocious crimes."

More from the article cited above:

"While the Islamic militants have killed a handful of journalists, the cartels murdered as many as 57 since 2006 for reporting on cartel crimes or exposing government complicity with the criminals. Many of Mexico’s media have been effectively silenced by intimidation or bribes. These censorship activities extend beyond professional media, with narcos tracking down and murdering ordinary citizens who criticize them on the Internet, leaving their naked and disemboweled corpses hanging in public squares. Yet American intellectuals such as Sam Harris appear to be more outraged when Muslims protest or issue threats in response to blasphemous or anti-Muslim hate speech than when cartels murder dozens of journalists and systematically co-opt an entire country’s media.

Similarly, Westerners across various political spectrums were outraged when ISIL seized 1,500 Yazidi women, committing sexual violence against the captives and using them as slaves. Here again, the cartels’ capture and trafficking of women dwarfs ISIL’s crimes. Narcos hold tens of thousands of Mexican citizens as slaves for their various enterprises and systematically use rape as a weapon of war.

U.S. media have especially hyped ISIL’s violence against Americans. This summer ISIL beheaded two Americans and has warned about executing a third; additionally, one U.S. Marine has died in efforts to combat the group. By contrast, the cartels killed 293 Americans in Mexico from 2007 to 2010 and have repeatedly attacked U.S. consulates in Mexico. While ISIL’s beheadings are no doubt outrageous, the cartels tortured, dismembered and then cooked one of the Americans they captured — possibly eating him or feeding him to dogs."

Another snippet:

"Barack Obama’s administration claims ISIL poses a severe threat to U.S. interests and national security. However, the militants were primarily concerned with seizing and holding territory in Iraq and Syria until the U.S. began targeting them. Even now, while they have called for lone wolves to carry out attacks on targets in the United States, so far those arrested in connection to ISIL have been trying to go and fight abroad rather than plotting domestic attacks. To the extent ISIL wants to kill Americans, its primary tactic has been to try to lure U.S. troops to its turf by publicly executing citizens they already hold hostage. In fact, several U.S. intelligence officials have asserted that ISIL poses no credible threat to the United States homeland. However, the same cannot be said of the cartels.

Narcos have infiltrated at least 3,000 U.S. cities and are recruiting many Americans, including U.S. troops and law enforcement officers, to their organizations. They have an increasingly sophisticated and robust foundation in the U.S., with Mexican cartels now controlling more than 80 percent of the illicit drug trade in the United States and their top agents deployed to virtually every major metropolitan area. There are no realistic assessments indicating that ISIL could achieve a similar level of penetration in the United States."

Regardless of whether a person accepts the author's premise ("America’s obsession with ISIL is fueled by Islamophobia rather than any empirical realities."), I find myself echoing the kid in a recent cable TV commercial, "He makes a valid point."

uffdaphil
11-12-14, 14:57
The question presents a false comparison. All cartels versus just one component of worldwide Islamic jihad. The long term threat from the cartels is tiny comparatively. The larger Islamist movement is killing far more plus subverting western civilization from within. Mass immigration combined with high birth rates are the iceberg below the surface. Mohammed is the number one baby name in England.

Yes the Cartels are powerful, but they don't number in the tens to hundreds of millions. Look at the polls of Muslims to see how many agree with imposing Sharia in whatever country they immigrate to. Something like 80% support the death penalty for apostasy. And that is from a group whose "religion" makes a virtue of lying to infidels.

Concerted law enforcement resources and/or drug legalization could fairly quickly degrade the cartels power. I don't see the West even admitting the extent of the Islamist problem much less moving against it.

Averageman
11-12-14, 15:07
I think a lot of this is a diversion away from the facts of what is going on, on the border and inside Mexico.
You wont see the "Mexican Spring" getting a lot of Press here, all the while these people are fighting for a representive government. I believe the Cartels and the Government of Mexico are working together to line each others pockets all while using our border to move dope and as a relief valve for any political opposition.
Tired of being a peon and working for poverty wages, go North, otherwise STFU and get back to work.
The people opposed to changes within the political system in Mexico are why we have drug cartels running amok and murdering with impunity.

Maybe the biggest threat to the status quo in the Mexican Government would be to begin mass deportations and dumping large numbers right back to Mexico. Having been here long enough and with a newly sealed border, perhaps they could effect their own Hope and Change?

vigilant2
11-12-14, 15:15
Who's the Larger Threat? ISIL or Mexican Cartels?

I would say neither . The greatest threat..........................................

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/efcecffeb27244b98de4565598585885/russian-bomber-patrols-reach-gulf-mexico

caporider
11-12-14, 15:32
Don't the cartels have a vested interested in leaving us alone since the US is their #1 customer?

Vicious they may be, but stupid they are not.

Doc Safari
11-12-14, 15:39
Is this a choice between just those two, or is this an invitation to name the greatest threat to the US?

I'd say the greatest threat to the US is liberalism, mostly in the Democrat party and Barack Hussein Obama, but it exists elsewhere as well. It has enabled all the other threats from ebola within our borders to Russian bomber incursions.

Airhasz
11-12-14, 17:28
Doc hit the nail on the head, the idiot in office is the biggest threat to this country.

trinydex
11-12-14, 18:36
there's no question here. radical islam is trying to destroy first world western civilization, practically by definition and mission statement.

mexican drug cartels need america. if america goes under, so does the demand for their cash crop.

SilverBullet432
11-12-14, 18:41
Biggest threat to the US:

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

WickedWillis
11-12-14, 18:42
there's no question here. radical islam is trying to destroy first world western civilization, practically by definition and mission statement.

mexican drug cartels need america. if america goes under, so does the demand for their cash crop.

Nailed it.

a1fabweld
11-12-14, 20:44
Well, being that Obola sends guns to the Mehicans & supports the muslims, I'd say we're fk'ed on both fronts. Which one will strike first on a large scale? It may be an alliance between the two to bring us on our knees? How's that for "Hope & Change"?

Honu
11-12-14, 21:02
lets see a NON US company that is operating here which is a muslim based news service who is politically run by another country who really is not US friendly and has had ties to radicals such as al-qaeda and muslim brotherhood and there non us service constantly puts those folks in great light and the US in bad light !

yeah no bias there

sadly there are some idiots here in our country that watch listen/read spread the propaganda as truth just amazes me then again hillary loves them so sure other lefties love them to just sad !!!!!

SteyrAUG
11-12-14, 21:13
"post 9/11 animus towards Islam"

Wow, just wow. Would that be anything like "Semitic post Holocaust animus of National Socialism"?

trinydex
11-12-14, 21:16
Well, being that Obola sends guns to the Mehicans & supports the muslims, I'd say we're fk'ed on both fronts. Which one will strike first on a large scale? It may be an alliance between the two to bring us on our knees? How's that for "Hope & Change"?

there's no strike for Mexican cartels. if they strike the united states shuts down the borders and they lose revenue. it's a system. they know their role. they know when they play stupid and kill law enforcement or civilians, America responds by shutting the border down. if you had a 30-60 billion-dollar-a-year industry, could you afford to not operate for 3 months?




also there won't be a large scale attack from radical islam.

http://sofrep.com/37632/another-911-america-afraid/

this is an excellent article on what America needs to defend against. it won't be big. it won't be foreign. it'll me homegrown, cellular. it'll be almost impossible to prevent. I just pray our law enforcement is on their tip top a game the day this happens. everyone needs to be training for this day.

ABNAK
11-12-14, 21:17
Where and when have we lost one Marine fighting ISIL? I don't recall hearing about that.

montanadave
11-12-14, 21:45
Given the general trend of the responses here, perhaps we should take a brief musical interlude.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfv3kBzJZgU

Seriously, it's like a ****ing echo chamber in here. :suicide:

Here's your homework: http://journal.sjdm.org/13/13313/jdm13313.pdf

ABNAK
11-12-14, 22:01
Given the general trend of the responses here, perhaps we should take a brief musical interlude.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfv3kBzJZgU

Seriously, it's like a ****ing echo chamber in here. :suicide:

Here's your homework: http://journal.sjdm.org/13/13313/jdm13313.pdf

Well, you have to consider that the cartels aren't actively canvassing online to recruit assholes to commit terrorist acts in their own backyard. Nor are disgruntled idiots flying to Mexico to join the cartels wreaking havoc. Also don't believe the cartels have made open and repeated threats against us.

All that said yes, the cartels are a threat indeed, but in a different way. Not as overt.

Still want to know where we lost a Marine fighting ISIL as it stated in the article.

MountainRaven
11-12-14, 22:16
The cartels don't have as far to go to cause damage and they already have a significant support network set up in this country.

They have already murdered Americans. They will continue to do so and likely without fear of reprisal.

ISIS? As soon as they kill anybody here, we'll probably send ten or fifty thousand soldiers and Marines to kick them out of Iraq.

scottryan
11-12-14, 22:43
Neither.

The biggest threat to America is billionaire liberals like warren buffet

yellowfin
11-12-14, 22:55
Doc hit the nail on the head, the idiot in office is the biggest threat to this country.I'd say he's the tip of the iceberg. The donors and party heads who put him in power are the problem. We know of just a few by name: Bloomberg, Soros, Brian Roberts (CEO of Comcast), Tom Steyer...but somehow they never get any public attention or any consequences levied upon them. For some reason we yack yack yack about the wrong direction of the country and how we hate that Obama runs it yet do absolutely nothing about the process that produced him, undoubtedly produced Andrew Cuomo, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Charlie Rangel, Richard Daley, Pat Quinn, Jon Corzine, Frank Lautenberg, the Clintons, Stephen Breyer, etc. None of these people get where they are unless they're doing the bidding of the people paying for their campaigns, endorsing them for their positions, and directing the attention of those who do the appointing. Why is there absolutely no focus on the puppet masters?

MountainRaven
11-12-14, 22:58
I'd say he's the tip of the iceberg. The donors and party heads who put him in power are the problem. We know of just a few by name: Bloomberg, Soros, Brian Roberts (CEO of Comcast), Tom Steyer...but somehow they never get any public attention or any consequences levied upon them. For some reason we yack yack yack about the wrong direction of the country and how we hate that Obama runs it yet do absolutely nothing about the process that produced him, undoubtedly produced Andrew Cuomo, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Charlie Rangel, Richard Daley, Pat Quinn, Jon Corzine, Frank Lautenberg, the Clintons, Stephen Breyer, etc. None of these people get where they are unless they're doing the bidding of the people paying for their campaigns, endorsing them for their positions, and directing the attention of those who do the appointing. Why is there absolutely no focus on the puppet masters?

The puppet masters are pulling the strings of every puppet in the show, Republican (whether "RINO" or not) and Democrat.

SilverBullet432
11-13-14, 00:29
Neither.

The biggest threat to America is billionaire liberals like warren buffet


I concur, that MFer owns 21st mortgage, happy to have people make him richer, and backstab them with the interest...