View Full Version : Apex Tactical Flat Faced Forward Set Sear and Trigger kit-Introduction
Boom.
Here it is guys.
First a short disclaimer. I consider Randy and Scott personal friends of mine so this trigger kit was sent to me for evaluation. To them, i am the layman, the simple guy that shoots, analyzes his shooting and is always on the lookout for interesting gear that will aid in performance on the range. This trigger was sent to me for evaluation at no charge and the only request from the brains at Apex was that i do my very best to break it. Given my history with their products, i doubt i am going to be able to break it but i will most certainly try.
Now that we have that out of the way, lets move into some details. A lot of what i will share comes from the personal conversations ive had with Randy and Scott about the development of the trigger and why it exists. When these two dudes talk, i shut my yak hole and listen. Between the two of them, their collective engineering knowledge is staggering. I liken them both to Sheldon and Leonard on The Big Bang Theory....at least in regard to the size of their brains. They're not quite as abrasive and deserving of knee capping as Sheldon. :P I will leave it up to you as to who is who.
Anyway, in laymans terms, the trigger was specifically designed to mirror a 1911 trigger or the characteristics that make the 1911 trigger so desirable. As we all know, the less we influence the pistol when we press the trigger, the more accurate the shot will be. With minimal movement in the actual trigger arc and throw, a shooter will always be more accurate. Couple this with a world class trigger break and you've got the makings of a gun that is beyond easy to shoot well with the only limiting factor being the mechanical accuracy of the pistol itself.
The amount of thought, research and design time that went into the making of this trigger is staggering and every time Randy and Scott start brain storming and discussing design evolution, my head begins to hurt. There are a ton of triggers on the market but very few with any real design intent behind them. Simply machining a shoe out of aluminum is not the way to go about things. Sitting down with design criteria and designing a trigger shoe around said criteria is the way to accomplish what Apex has accomplished with this trigger. I will spare you the actual details involved with the ergonomic design criteria that the boys set forth for themselves and the trigger but it is REALLY impressive how they actually sat down and thought about how the human interacts with the trigger itself. The trigger shape and length again are maximized to minimize the amount the human will influence the trigger press.
I am impressed, more so than i was with the original FSS and this trigger in my mind, takes things to the next level.
Lastly, as with everything that Apex does, this product is not about flash, lightning cuts, buzz words, tactical asshattery or flat dark earth Combatz. This trigger is about results and man does it deliver.
The trigger kit will be available at Brownells and will retail for 169.95. Im sure Grant will pick some of these up so check with him as well. These triggers will be available on November 19th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD14Dmocthg
Nice report. While I personally don't have a use for a sub-2 lb trigger pull, I'm interested to see what combination of trigger, sear, and striker block springs gets you to a glass-like 4-5 lb break.
Welp, thats pretty awesome looking. Very nice Apex.
Nice design too. Apex hits a home run again.
Very interesting. Is Apex ever going to start making Glock triggers?
Magsz, do you know if this trigger will be compatible with all generations of M&P? I've been looking at picking up a used M&P or Glock. This might push me hard to the M&P.
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Magsz, do you know if this trigger will be compatible with all generations of M&P? I've been looking at picking up a used M&P or Glock. This might push me hard to the M&P.
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There is no reason why it wont be compatible.
The only "compatibility" issue you may run into would be the sear housing block having a small sear plunger and spring. For the sake of reliability i would STRONGLY recommend that you check this and swap it out IF your used gun has the older, smaller sear housing spring/plunger combo.
This particular VTAC is a 2012 gun i believe, maybe early 2013 so its not exactly "new".
Sensei,
The DCAEK duty trigger spring should get you into the four pound range.
Omega Man.........maybe.........
PatrioticDisorder
11-13-14, 09:34
When will these triggers be available? Also any chance of a DCEAK and/or Shield model flat face?
November 19th is the release date and they will be available through Brownells and im sure G&R Tactical.
In regard to the shield, my comments are my own and do NOT reflect any plans that Apex has or may have.
I would never in a billion years put one of these triggers into a shield. Ever.
Most people do not use the safeties on their shields and for concealed carry purposes, unless im running a thumb safety, i really would want a little more inherent travel in the system. Given the fact that you're also putting a smaller gun into a smaller holster opening, the chances of catching any potential hangups when reholstering are reduced. The smaller things get, the less margin of error you have.
I hate to say this but people are stupid. There are alot of guys out there that bought shields without even knowing a full sized M&P existed. They bought it because they wanted an ultra concealable, slim handgun and the shield fit the bill. Most of these guys are also the same guys that will immediately hot rod their pistol by throwing a bunch of crap they have NO clue how to use into the gun. Given the characteristics of this trigger, it is TOO tempting to NOT throw it into every M&P i own. Imagine the bubba Joe drooling over the prospect of putting one of these into a shield? The same guy that has zero training but was taught how to shoot by a Navy Seal.
From a liability standpoint, that scares me tremendously and i would imagine Apex is probably thinking along the same lines but if there is a demand, the company will probably produce.
Again, these are just my independent thoughts on the matter.
Very interesting. Is Apex ever going to start making Glock triggers?
This.
Okie John
This.
Okie John
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
Magsz,
Thank you for your very positive and insightful review!
plouffedaddy
11-13-14, 11:43
Looks pretty slick. I may have to get one in to try out.....
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
Thanks. Definitely looking forward to it.
Okie John
eternal24k
11-13-14, 13:02
Thanks. Definitely looking forward to it.
Okie John
+1! This trigger is simply impressive, almost enough to make me jump ship. I am very excited for the possibility of seeing this for a Glock...
Very interesting. Is Apex ever going to start making Glock triggers?
This.
Okie John
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
:D :dance3: :D :dance3:
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
Looking forward to that.
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
Nice! I have been wanting Apex to come out with Glock stuff.
If it's one company that can figure out how to make a nice reliable duty/carry trigger, it would be Apex tactical.
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
Good to hear
Nice report. While I personally don't have a use for a sub-2 lb trigger pull, I'm interested to see what combination of trigger, sear, and striker block springs gets you to a glass-like 4-5 lb break.
Amen... not looking for "competition" grade triggers here either, but if they are setting these up into an "ecosystem" where the end-user can pick/choose from a menu of modular-like trigger features... we could be onto something pretty awesome!
Amen... not looking for "competition" grade triggers here either, but if they are setting these up into an "ecosystem" where the end-user can pick/choose from a menu of modular-like trigger features... we could be onto something pretty awesome!
Hi Scootle,
The kit is sold with two different trigger return springs- the silver one should guve you a pull around 4 lbs, the green HD spring should be in the range of 4.5-5 lbs. Using the factory TRS would drop you into around the 3 lb range. Due to slide/frame tolerances being what they are, your measured weight could be different. The flat face design provides greater mechanical advantage to the trigger bar, so if you couple the trigger and forward set sear with our competition TRS and striker spring you get a trigger that would rival some race guns in the $2400.00 range. It is what I call stupid light.
We wanted to give the end user the ability to select what pull weight was right for their intended application- anywhere from sub-two pounds on up th 5.
-Randy
Street Survival
11-13-14, 17:32
Quick Question For Randy,
Can the flat face design coupled with the forward set trigger kit be utilized with the two aforementioned springs for a 4 and a 4.5 - 5lb trigger pull? Also can I purchase additional trigger springs in case of breakage? Thank you for your time.
Quick Question For Randy,
Can the flat face design coupled with the forward set trigger kit be utilized with the two aforementioned springs for a 4 and a 4.5 - 5lb trigger pull? Also can I purchase additional trigger springs in case of breakage? Thank you for your time.
Depending on the tolerances of your specific pistol, one of the two springs provided in the kit should get you into that range. We do have trigger return springs available for purchase.
-Randy
Will this also fit/work in the .45 M&Ps, particularly a compact? I have a .45 I would really love to set up with one of these in the 4.5 lb range.
Will this also fit/work in the .45 M&Ps, particularly a compact? I have a .45 I would really love to set up with one of these in the 4.5 lb range.
Most definitely. We shot some video footage today of the trigger in a 45 compact.
Most definitely. We shot some video footage today of the trigger in a 45 compact.
Thank you sir, I can guarantee you some more of my money as soon as these are released! :cool:
The kit is sold with two different trigger return springs- the silver one should guve you a pull around 4 lbs, the green HD spring should be in the range of 4.5-5 lbs. Using the factory TRS would drop you into around the 3 lb range. Due to slide/frame tolerances being what they are, your measured weight could be different. The flat face design provides greater mechanical advantage to the trigger bar, so if you couple the trigger and forward set sear with our competition TRS and striker spring you get a trigger that would rival some race guns in the $2400.00 range. It is what I call stupid light.
We wanted to give the end user the ability to select what pull weight was right for their intended application- anywhere from sub-two pounds on up th 5.
-Randy
This is great info. Thanks. I may very well have a M&P9 PC CORE coming soon, so this will stay on my radar! You're going to "make" me take another beautiful vacation/drive down there to Los Osos to visit... I mean, drop off my pistol. :D
This is great info. Thanks. I may very well have a M&P9 PC CORE coming soon, so this will stay on my radar! You're going to "make" me take another beautiful vacation/drive down there to Los Osos to visit... I mean, drop off my pistol. :D
It's what we do. :)
Thank you sir, I can guarantee you some more of my money as soon as these are released! :cool:
Thank you for believing in our products!
G34Shooter
11-13-14, 19:38
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
I'm here for the gang bang :D
It is in the queue for this upcoming year. :)
Please make it like this one. Please.
Love the AEK; this one looks even better.
Street Survival
11-13-14, 20:18
Any idea when the release date will be? By the way you made my day Randy, Thank You!!!
Any idea when the release date will be? By the way you made my day Randy, Thank You!!!
It was posted. 17th or 19th I think.
And Randy, I now prefer my Apex'd out M&P over my G19 by far, but I'll definitely be putting just about anything you guys make into the Glock just for good measure.
Can't wait to order this for my M&P with the FSS kit in it.
Side note: Like everyone else "Begging for something ideally like this for the Glock pistols."
Can't wait to order this for my M&P with the FSS kit in it.
Side note: Like everyone else "Begging for something ideally like this for the Glock pistols."
You will not be disappointed. :)
I have the Apex FSS and Alum trigger kit in my M&P and LOVE IT!
I am looking to get another M&P in the near future for an RMR'ed build... this trigger looks like it will have to come to the party. :-D
Can't wait to order this for my M&P with the FSS kit in it.
Side note: Like everyone else "Begging for something ideally like this for the Glock pistols."
Since you already have our FSS kit installed, all you will need is the trigger. They weill be available from Brownells on the 19th, or you can call us directly.
We will endeavour to make the Glock trigger equally as impressive...
Randy,
Will the new trigger alone work with the polymer FSS kit too?
Thanks
Randy,
Will the new trigger alone work with the polymer FSS kit too?
Thanks
Yes. The trigger was designed to work with our forward set sear, so if you have our polymer FSS kit, all you will need is the trigger.
-Randy
Interested. Might have to dig out the M&P.
Randy you guys going to be at SHOT, or have any of these triggers installed on pistols there?
Interested. Might have to dig out the M&P.
Randy you guys going to be at SHOT, or have any of these triggers installed on pistols there?
We will be at SHOT, however we won't have a booth. I will see what we can do to have a pistol equipped with the new trigger somewhere on the floor...
notorious_ar15
11-16-14, 12:09
We will endeavour to make the Glock trigger equally as impressive...
Randy,
you officially have another person in line waiting for your Glock trigger to be released! ;)
We will be at SHOT, however we won't have a booth. I will see what we can do to have a pistol equipped with the new trigger somewhere on the floor...Sounds good. If I haven't picked one up or fired one by that time I will hit you up and see if you got one into a pistol at the show. I will be at the range day on Monday and at the show Tue-Thur.
Thanks,
Surf
One more day guys.
Tomorrow i should have enough time to post the overview video of what comes with the trigger.
Simply awesome. Great video as well explaining how it works. We ordered these the day they sent us the press release. No brainer and should have them for sale the day we receive them.
We will also be offering these installed in M&P's for those customers that want that option with a new gun.
C4
We will also be offering these installed in M&P's for those customers that want that option with a new gun.
C4
Hmmm.... :cool:
I picked up a 2014 manufacture M&P 9 full size today with only one mag through it according to the owner. Specifically wanted to try this trigger. Looking forward to it.
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Got them in today! Very well designed. Look forward to running this in a personal gun.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APEX_FFFSS
C4
Got them in today! Very well designed. Look forward to running this in a personal gun.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APEX_FFFSS
C4
Grant,
I'm looking forward to seeing what you think!
-Randy
For those of you that are interested, here is what the kit comes with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBnWVvFGoYs
I also have a video in the works that should prove to be relatively hilarious. Lets just say that this trigger surprises people in some rather colorful ways. :)
Any indepth reviews on this anywhere? I'm interested in possibly getting this for my M&P over the DEAK kit depending on how it is. Can't stand my M&P stock trigger anymore.
Any indepth reviews on this anywhere? I'm interested in possibly getting this for my M&P over the DEAK kit depending on how it is. Can't stand my M&P stock trigger anymore.
^^ Anyone?
breyton490
06-03-15, 10:11
I have the AEK aluminum trigger.... What is the difference between the new FFT and the older AEK trigger? Is it just a geometry difference (curved face vs. flat)? From the looks of the FFT compared to the curved AEK, it looks like the length of pull will be increased a bit. With the spring setup in my gun now w/the AEK, I get about a 4lb pull.
Just want to make sure my understanding and expectation if I get the new FFT are in line with its functionality as compared with the aluminum AEK trigger.
MIlSpecDepot
06-03-15, 10:29
The flat faced trigger comes in either the complete forward set sear kit , or trigger only. If you choose the trigger only route , you will have to already have a forward set sear kit installed ( polymer or aluminum ) for the flat trigger to work. The AEK kit can be dropped into a stock M&P , the flat trigger can not . The flat faced trigger is the third version of the forward set sear kit.
The FFT requires the FSS components (sear).
There is a length of pull difference between the FFT and the FSS but nothing too extreme that one becomes unshootable unless you've got REALLY small hands. Between the two, i vastly prefer the FFT.
As far as in depth reviews go, ill have one coming shortly now that ive been beating this thing to death for a while. Im not really the type to get a piece of kit, run it for five minutes and then proclaim it great in the eyes of Zeus. Its got to stand the test of time and once that new car smell wears off, its got to still make me tingly in all of the right places.
Will Apex release a flat faced trigger for Glocks? I see their blog lists the ever popular S&W SD series as well as the Sig P320 are next up for production. Are there some issues that prevent the creation of a Glock trigger?
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Will Apex release a flat faced trigger for Glocks? I see their blog lists the ever popular S&W SD series as well as the Sig P320 are next up for production. Are there some issues that prevent the creation of a Glock trigger?
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Its possible........ :)
Will Apex release a flat faced trigger for Glocks? I see their blog lists the ever popular S&W SD series as well as the Sig P320 are next up for production. Are there some issues that prevent the creation of a Glock trigger?
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Apex flat faced triggers for Glocks ? I will just say it is not if, but when.
Do it, do it now. I rest my case.
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