Apex Flat Face Trigger Overview...The Next Big Thing is Here

[charbonneau482]

One of the most common complaints that we hear from the M&P is the trigger. Weather the complaint is that the trigger had no reset or that there is too much pre travel and over travel there is an obvious common complaint from the factory trigger. Apex Tactical Specialties has been a leader in improving the M&P trigger. Their Forward Set Sear and Trigger kits have been able to resemble the beloved 1911 trigger feel. But they didn’t stop there. Scott and Randy from Apex have announced their new flat face trigger for the M&P to further more allow the end user to replicate a 1911 trigger feel. I was fortunate enough to receive a prototype for testing. After shooting three local pistol matches and logging a few hours at local ranges for practice and accuracy testing, this is what I found.

The Apex flat faced trigger was designed to give the user a similar feel to the 1911 trigger while maintaining the trigger safety as found in the other Apex Enhancement triggers and trigger kits. As similar to the other Enhancement triggers, the amount of pre travel and over travel by about 20% and in conjunction with the Apex Forward Set sear kit, the achieved result is a smooth single action like trigger. Now where the Enhanced trigger stops in replicating the 1911 trigger, the flat face trigger continues to excel. While keeping the improvements to the pre travel and over travel, the flat face trigger now gives you the feeling of the commonly sought after 1911 flat trigger. The trigger feels like you are pressing the trigger directly to the rear of the trigger frame.

As another result due to the design of the trigger, the mechanical advantage allows the user to achieve a lighter trigger pull without changing any springs. In my specific case, I had the Apex Competition Spring Kit installed in conjunction with the Aluminum Forward Set Sear and Trigger Kit. The end result with this was a consistent 2.8lbs trigger pull. Once the flat face trigger was installed, the trigger pull came down to 1.4lbs.

The trigger came to me installed by Apex with the competition spring kit and Forward Set Sear kit. I immediately noticed how the flat faced trigger produced a very similar amount of pre travel and over travel to the 1911’s that I have felt. Even though the trigger breaks at 1.4lbs, I can still feel a small amount of take up in the trigger before hitting a wall right before the sear drops. Although it took a little practice to get used to, I was able to learn how to prep the trigger before breaking my shots on small steel plates during matches.

During each match and visit to the range, I kept having competitors and recreational shooters dry fire and live fire the gun to see their impressions of it. Regardless if they were a new shooter to the range or a regular USPSA shooter, the reaction was the same. After pulling the trigger, everyone would have a grin on their face and simply say “wow”. People truly thought that it replicated the feel of the 1911 trigger and were impressed in how clean the trigger felt.

In conclusion, Apex hit another home run with their product. The end result is exactly what I was personally wanting in a trigger to make the gun more comfortable and easy to shoot in competition while still maintaining every safety feature found on the other Apex triggers. I truly felt privileged to be able to test a prototype and hope that product overview can help you decide if the Apex flat faced trigger is right for you.

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u505/charbonneau482/IMG_20141113_171917_534_zps7c799dd6.jpg (http://s1071.photobucket.com/user/charbonneau482/media/IMG_20141113_171917_534_zps7c799dd6.jpg.html)

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u505/charbonneau482/IMG_20141113_173327_946_zps0ee5d18c.jpg (http://s1071.photobucket.com/user/charbonneau482/media/IMG_20141113_173327_946_zps0ee5d18c.jpg.html)

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u505/charbonneau482/IMG_20141113_173336_451_zps04dd288a.jpg (http://s1071.photobucket.com/user/charbonneau482/media/IMG_20141113_173336_451_zps04dd288a.jpg.html)

[RAM Engineer]

I can't see your pictures here at work, but I would ASSume that this should only be installed on guns with manual safeties? I can't see running a 1.4 lb trigger without one.

[Magsz]

The triggers can be made to run in the 4-5+ pound range.

I believe the OP is a USPSA shooter where alot of guys desire low trigger pull weights.

Check out my thread for some more detailed info!

[charbonneau482]

I can't see your pictures here at work, but I would ASSume that this should only be installed on guns with manual safeties? I can't see running a 1.4 lb trigger without one.

You can use different springs to achieve a heavier trigger pull. Since this gun was built for competition only, I wanted toTarrant how low I could get the trigger.

[Shao]

2 posts in almost two years of being a member? You're not a shill are you?

[Magsz]

2 posts in almost two years of being a member? You're not a shill are you?

Implying that Apex is sending out gear to Shills is not really fair to Apex.

Apex told those of us that received pre production samples that we could go ahead and release information about the triggers on the 12th of November. That is what this poster chose to do. Could he have provided a little bit more information on who he is and what he does with the trigger, sure, but that's up to him.

[NCPatrolAR]

If I want a 1911 trigger I'll shoot a 1911. People would probably be better off if they came to the same conclusion, but it's their money.


I'm sure the quality is high on it as found with other Apex components though

[Magsz]

If I want a 1911 trigger I'll shoot a 1911. People would probably be better off if they came to the same conclusion, but it's their money.


I'm sure the quality is high on it as found with other Apex components though

Basically any gun can be shot well if you train enough.

Wanting to change, tune or adapt trigger characteristics to your chosen platform is laudable and something i do on every handgun i own.

This isnt a 1911 trigger, it still pivots. It does however, offer exceptional throw, a VERY nice crisp and clean break and as i mentioned in my introduction, a design that minimizes the human hands influence on said trigger press. To me that is a win. I dont believe Apex was trying to shoe horn into or even market this as being a 1911 style trigger.

It is its own city smashing godzilla style monster and i like it, alot.

[charbonneau482]

Implying that Apex is sending out gear to Shills is not really fair to Apex.

Apex told those of us that received pre production samples that we could go ahead and release information about the triggers on the 12th of November. That is what this poster chose to do. Could he have provided a little bit more information on who he is and what he does with the trigger, sure, but that's up to him.

I didn't want this specific review to be about me but more on the trigger. I am in the works of creating a video review but your video did very good job at reviewing the trigger. I'm am trying to think of a video script that Will be highlighting the trigger from a competition stand point.

Since you tossed the suggestion out there. I am a novice competitive shooter who was privileged enough to be able to test the flat face trigger prior to release.

[Surf]

Considering this thread was his first post with no other participation on this forum and it appears to be a generic cut and paste type of post that might be made for re-posting on various sites, it does seem a bit questionable. This is no jab at Apex.

[gsxr-fan]

any chance you could post pics of the internals? just curious.

[NCPatrolAR]

Basically any gun can be shot well if you train enough.

And not every gun instantly needs to be gutted and have everything replaced which seems to be a common theme when it comes to the M&P.


Wanting to change, tune or adapt trigger characteristics to your chosen platform is laudable and something i do on every handgun i own.

That's well and fine and no one says that you shouldn't be able to do so.


This isnt a 1911 trigger, it still pivots.

It's still designed to mimic the feel of the 1911 is it not? After all that's the constant comparison in the OP. I swear people chase the 1911 trigger feel like a doper chases his original high

[charbonneau482]

I did use this post on many other forums no question about that. I am also not a participating member of this particular forum either. When I made this review, I wanted to post it on various forums to spread the word about the trigger and give my initial findings on it. I am more active on other forums such as AR15.com. I see what you are saying and it is fair to say that seeing how I have not even logged into this forum for over a year until this original post.


Considering this thread was his first post with no other participation on this forum and it appears to be a generic cut and paste type of post that might be made for re-posting on various sites, it does seem a bit questionable. This is no jab at Apex.

[Magsz]

And not every gun instantly needs to be gutted and have everything replaced which seems to be a common theme when it comes to the M&P.



That's well and fine and no one says that you shouldn't be able to do so.



It's still designed to mimic the feel of the 1911 is it not? After all that's the constant comparison in the OP. I swear people chase the 1911 trigger feel like a doper chases his original high

I agree with everything you just said.

[Surf]

I did use this post on many other forums no question about that. I am also not a participating member of this particular forum either. When I made this review, I wanted to post it on various forums to spread the word about the trigger and give my initial findings on it. I am more active on other forums such as AR15.com. I see what you are saying and it is fair to say that seeing how I have not even logged into this forum for over a year until this original post.It's not really a problem if you preface your initial post. I am sure those here on this forum, myself included, very much appreciate the information but any forum is always leery of the one hit wonders, or those types who spam forums purely to draw views to youtube, blogs, facebook etc. And this is not directed towards Magsz as I am very familiar with him online and know that is not his style and respect his opinions as I have a basis or understanding of him through ongoing forum interactions. I too am a long long time member of the site you mention and still go slumming there from time to time ;), but in any event welcome to this forum and on going, positive participation here is always welcome.

[MegademiC]

If I want a 1911 trigger I'll shoot a 1911. People would probably be better off if they came to the same conclusion, but it's their money.


I'm sure the quality is high on it as found with other Apex components though

I love 1911's, but its too bad no one makes a reliable 17+1, 9mm 1911, for $700.

That said, a trigger is about the lowest thing on my handgun "priority list."

I do think this would make a sick comp trigger based on what I've seen. I may have to try one out eventually.

[charbonneau482]

any chance you could post pics of the internals? just curious.

Did you want a picture of just the trigger internals or a picture of the full sear kit?

[gsxr-fan]

a pic of your m&p with the slide removed. thanks

[gsxr-fan]

i'm more visually oriented and would like to see the differences between the kit and my pistol. thanks

[Shao]

I don't get why people buy service-grade pistols and then put so much money into them just to make them almost as good as a higher end gun. I really don't get the whole customizing your Glock thing. I don't. I can't wrap my brain around it. Just buy a VP9 and be done with it.

[ralph]

I don't get why people buy service-grade pistols and then put so much money into them just to make them almost as good as a higher end gun. I really don't get the whole customizing your Glock thing. I don't. I can't wrap my brain around it. Just buy a VP9 and be done with it.

While I applaud Randy and his team at Apex for coming out with innovative products, The above quote pretty much sums it up.. I had a FS M&P9, and it had Apex parts in it which helped the trigger considerably..The problem was, it was one of the inaccurate ones, and would've needed a aftermarket barrel fit to it.. When I figured up what I spent on the pistol, Apex parts, and then added what the barrel would've cost, we're into HK territory.. At that point I asked myself what was I doing? I sold it and moved on... I bought a VP9 a while back, It does everything I want it to.. the only thing it needed was better sights, (mine has Dawson's) I can see it, if you're going full custom, or installing this in a M&P45 (which were always very,very accurate) but in a out of the box FS9 with so-so accuracy? Naa, I don't get it.. But, Hey, It's not my money...

[Randy Lee]

In my wee little brain, I look at the changes like customizing my car, or my rifle. My car gets me reliably from point A to point B without the need for customization just as my black rifle doesn't need a lot of stuff hanging off the fore end to meet my use criteria. But driving up the windy Highway 1, taking corners with precision and speed dictated a few changes to the suspension to suit my driving style. It's all boils down to my perceived need. Nothing more. Customization to fit the satisfaction of an individual-me.
For some, the desire to change some characteristic of their pistol is driven by functionality and not just a whimsical impulse. Take the beavertail grip safety on the 1911 as an example. It is an evolution of the original design that many owners find a necessity rather than a luxury.
The desire to see how one can advance their own performance envelope through technological advance is a strong impulse in both the competition world, as well as in general. While many might argue that one spend money on ammo or training and improve the skills of the driver, at some point an improvement in the technology will yield a net gain in performance. Ask Rob Letham, Julie Golob or even Jerry Miculek about the guns that they use to win titles with. I know that at least 2 of those names have won titles with non stock guns. I know this because I worked on them.

As ralph and Shao reflect- spending money is an individual choice, and I most definitely agree with them.

-Randy

[Surf]

I don't get why people buy service-grade pistols and then put so much money into them just to make them almost as good as a higher end gun. I really don't get the whole customizing your Glock thing. I don't. I can't wrap my brain around it. Just buy a VP9 and be done with it.Higher end gun? Customization? People take 1911's put $3000.00 into them and they are highly customized and hand fitted. Why not hand fit a Glock? It is cheap and easy to do and yields very good results. You can hand fit a Glock and get a trigger better than a VP9 for about the same investment as the VP9.

IMO the VP9 isn't the sliced bread that many make them out to be. Not everyone thinks they are ergonomically correct, not everyone likes that type of magazine release, nor is the slide stop / release that well done on either side of the weapon. Even the trigger out of the box is only marginally better in some people's mind then say a Glock. I personally don't like the hard reset of the VP9. Add the cost of the VP9, cost of the mags, lack of as much support for holsters etc and the VP9 isn't as great an option as many make them out to be. I wanted to jump all over the VP9 bandwagon also, but I was left very unimpressed. Maybe my hopes were too high.

[mizer67]

I don't get why people buy service-grade pistols and then put so much money into them just to make them almost as good as a higher end gun. I really don't get the whole customizing your Glock thing. I don't. I can't wrap my brain around it. Just buy a VP9 and be done with it.

The problem in my mind is there is no higher end plastic double stack people popper that does anything better than a standard service pistol like a Glock with mods.

Accuracy - nope, not against one with a fitted barrel. Trigger feel, nope, not with the aftermarket. Ergos - only in the ambidextrous slide release, anything else can be changed. Plus, they can't match the user serviceability, availability of spare parts and ubiquitous other aftermarket doo dads.

No one yet makes a perfect service pistol at any price. If one could blend all the best attributes of what's on the market, you could probably get close. Until then, you have to pick from what's on the market.

If you can make what's out there better for you, I say drive on.

[ruchik]

I don't get why people buy service-grade pistols and then put so much money into them just to make them almost as good as a higher end gun. I really don't get the whole customizing your Glock thing. I don't. I can't wrap my brain around it. Just buy a VP9 and be done with it.

Because reasons and stuff. This is "Murica, dammit.

As Randy noted above, there will come a point where hardware upgrades will yield performance improvements. It's like a computer. Why not just buy a 10 year old laptop and be done with it?

[Street Survival]

I applaud Randy for making these improvements which ultimately could save my life one day. I salute you Sir!