View Full Version : So now the DoJ is spying on American's cellphones
Using surveillance aircraft that trick cellphones into disclosing their ID and location. Scoops up "tens of thousands" of phone's data in one flight.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/11/14/secret-us-spy-program-targeted-americans-cell-phones/
It wasn't bad enough that the NSA is doing it, now the Department of Justice is in on the game. Kind of removes any auspices of "national security", eh?
I thought all the flag waving, chest thumping, hardcore Amerikans wanted the Patriot Act and the NDAA??????
Is this not who you wanted to work for, or how you wanted to live? You know that saying about hindsight being 20/20......
4DAIVI PAI2K5
11-14-14, 06:27
strange world now a days.
I figured that it was only a matter of time until the NSA-type technology and the use of it morphed into domestic law enforcement. It has already been disclosed that the NSA was giving "hot tips" to the DEA it came across during the course of it's national security surveillance. Then of course there was the leak about how prosecutors could cover or obfuscate the evidence trail as to where they got their info from. Hell, now the DoJ is doing it and not even denying it (of course they wouldn't confirm it either, but we all know what that means). Guess it's an open fact now, no longer to be shied away from.
I thought all the flag waving, chest thumping, hardcore Amerikans wanted the Patriot Act and the NDAA??????
Hussein is so fukking corrupt that I do believe he'd be doing this kind of thing with or without the Patriot Act.
This is still for the children right? It's tough to tell sometimes.
I'm not sure what to think on this one. There have been times in my career that polices were broken, and the laws were sworn to uphold and protect get bent in the interest of completing a case or making sure someone doesn't get hurt. The difference being we have rules to play by and follow. No matter how badly sometimes or how much justification we have sometimes you just have to let it go and find another way. That is the difference in the thin blue line and the criminals were suppose to protect the rest of society from. We have rules and policies good, bad or otherwise they don't and that's what separates us.
I know acts of terrorism and probably some cartel or smuggling has been stopped by this, but with a little more time a good department or investigator, agent or officer can find a way to get it done without trampling on our constitution.
Kind of makes you wonder who is protecting who.
So, who didn't think the tech that allows us to spy on all Iraqi cell traffic (totally illegal here) wouldn't also be used here? Just too easy....
If the DOJ likes its Dirtboxes, they can keep their Dirtboxes.
I know acts of terrorism and probably some cartel or smuggling has been stopped by this, but with a little more time a good department or investigator, agent or officer can find a way to get it done without trampling on our constitution.
Gee, you mean good old fashioned gumshoe police work? Nah, can't do that. It's only been working for eons.
Who ever gave Fox news that story has absolutely no idea how cell phones or that equipment works, or the requirement of an arrest warrant or court order.
Moose-Knuckle
11-14-14, 17:00
I'm sure it's for our own good, after all freedom is dangerous . . .
thopkins22
11-14-14, 17:10
Who ever gave Fox news that story has absolutely no idea how cell phones or that equipment works, or the requirement of an arrest warrant or court order.
In what way? I do have a WSJ account but didn't login, but it doesn't seem that they're suggesting that they're listening to calls. But rather using the tech to get all of the cellphones to report in the way that a tower does.
It's a way to find cellphones/people with cellphones. The question is what happens to the data that they collect which the warrant does not cover? Every cellphone reports to the new "tower" and then they find the one they want. But it could very well be like the ATF not being allowed to keep records from background checks...but actually keeping those records anyway. Or not keeping those records, but just getting copies from dealers when they get audited.
There's plenty of reason to be suspicious here...because I expect the same level of privacy on my cellphone that I have on a landline. It's not a damned CB radio.
SilverBullet432
11-14-14, 17:23
So in other words, I should pack up shop and go find a cave in canada to live in?
So in other words, I should pack up shop and go find a cave in canada to live in?
Yeah, then go post your entire life on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. ;)
In what way? I do have a WSJ account but didn't login, but it doesn't seem that they're suggesting that they're listening to calls. But rather using the tech to get all of the cellphones to report in the way that a tower does.
It's a way to find cellphones/people with cellphones. The question is what happens to the data that they collect which the warrant does not cover? Every cellphone reports to the new "tower" and then they find the one they want. But it could very well be like the ATF not being allowed to keep records from background checks...but actually keeping those records anyway. Or not keeping those records, but just getting copies from dealers when they get audited.
There's plenty of reason to be suspicious here...because I expect the same level of privacy on my cellphone that I have on a landline. It's not a damned CB radio.
Why would you ever expect a wireless device to be secure? Anyway, there are legal protections afforded to everyone. If you want to know about the ECPA and court order requirements that info is out there. The article assumes that "data" is being collected, and that the devices connect to every cellphone in range.
Yeah, then go post your entire life on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. ;)
Why would you ever expect a wireless device to be secure? Anyway, there are legal protections afforded to everyone. If you want to know about the ECPA and court order requirements that info is out there. The article assumes that "data" is being collected, and that the devices connect to every cellphone in range.
Are you attempting to say that only those cell phones for which DoJ has a warrant are susceptible to collection by the dirtboxes? Please elaborate.
FWIW, I'd never assume that any wireless (or wired for that matter) device is "secure", but I damned sure expect my government to NOT be the ones exploiting their vulnerability!
Maybe their just using the tech to keep tabs on their significant others like the folks at the NSA were doing from time to time. No harm no foul.
:|
I actually read it elsewhere and not Fox News. And of course we know that the gov't never abuses any of this technology, right? I mean it's not like they are reading emails and other communications from Americans that have nothing to do with terrorists or terrorism.
Who ever gave Fox news that story has absolutely no idea how cell phones or that equipment works, or the requirement of an arrest warrant or court order.
I actually read it elsewhere and not Fox News. And of course we know that the gov't never abuses any of this technology, right? I mean it's not like they are reading emails and other communications from Americans that have nothing to do with terrorists or terrorism.
Or obtaining it extra-judiciously and then intentionally covering up the evidence trail so it holds up in court.
Anyway, there are legal protections afforded to everyone. If you want to know about the ECPA and court order requirements that info is out there.
Riiiight. I have a lot of faith in that these days.
Look, when the whole NSA thing blew open and it was confirmed that the DEA had gotten info gleaned during NSA snooping, then the memo was exposed instructing prosecutors how to "make up" another evidence trail to hide the fact of where it really came from, well........the value of those "protections" went right out the window.
One nation, under servalince, with tyranny and injustice for all...
montanadave
11-15-14, 09:34
Riiiight. I have a lot of faith in that these days.
Look, when the whole NSA thing blew open and it was confirmed that the DEA had gotten info gleaned during NSA snooping, then the memo was exposed instructing prosecutors how to "make up" another evidence trail to hide the fact of where it really came from, well........the value of those "protections" went right out the window.
Ain't it the truth.
From an article in Forbes last summer (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennifergranick/2013/08/14/nsa-dea-irs-lie-about-fact-that-americans-are-routinely-spied-on-by-our-government-time-for-a-special-prosecutor-2/):
"The Obama Administration repeatedly has assured us that the NSA does not collect the private information of ordinary Americans. Those statements simply are not true. We now know that the agency regularly intercepts and inspects Americans’ phone calls, emails, and other communications, and it shares this information with other federal agencies that use it to investigate drug trafficking and tax evasion. Worse, DEA and IRS agents are told to lie to judges and defense attorneys about their use of NSA data, and about the very existence of the SOD [Special Operations Division], and to make up stories about how these investigations started so that no one will know information is coming from the NSA’s top secret surveillance programs."
More on the DEA's ominously named Special Operations Division:
"Which brings us to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). As we noted previously, the DEA has a secret division called the Special Operations Division or SOD. The SOD receives intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records from its partner agencies, of which the NSA is just one, to distribute to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans. The SOD gets information from the NSA and shares it with, among other agencies, the IRS.
And this is where things get truly ugly. When agents receive SOD information and rely on it to trigger investigations, they are directed to omit the SOD’s involvement from investigative reports, affidavits, discussions with prosecutors and courtroom testimony. Agents are instructed to then use “normal investigative techniques to recreate the information provided by SOD.” IRS agents receiving SOD data, which presumably can include information from the NSA, have been similarly instructed. They are instructed, in other words, to create a fake investigative file, and to lie. To lie, in particular, to defense lawyers and to judges, about the source of the evidence used in criminal prosecutions.
By hiding the fact that information comes from NSA surveillance, the government both masks the extent to which NSA’s domestic spying is used to trigger investigations of Americans, and prevents legal challenges to highly questionable surveillance practices like bulk phone record collection, warrantless access to American communications with friends and family overseas, and retention and use of illegally obtained domestic calls and emails.
This is outrageous conduct. It is the sort of thing you expect from the Chinese government, or one of the now-vanished governments of the Warsaw Pact. And there is no stronger proof of the dangers of the NSA’s domestic spying effort than the fact that the government has consistently lied about it and attempted to cover it up. Think for just a moment about the stories J. Edgar Hoover could have plausibly concocted about Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. or any other civil rights activist with this kind of detailed information. The Obama Administration has gone after leakers, and the journalists at outlets like the Associated Press or the New York Times who use them as sources, with unprecedented force. Think about what the current Attorney General, Eric Holder, could do to bring down these reporters who cover – sometimes in ways the Obama Administration doesn’t like — the conduct of American foreign policy. At this point, it’s plain to see that the Obama Administration has no intention of honestly fixing this mess. So it’s time now for Congress to act. A good first step would be to appoint a Special Prosecutor with wide power to subpoena Administration officials, and to bring criminal indictments where appropriate. Congress should then begin the process of reforming surveillance law to make absolutely clear that the NSA has no power to conduct warrantless mass surveillance of Americans.
First they came for the terrorists and the foreigners, and no one did anything. Then they came for the drug dealers. Then the tax cheats. Then the journalists. And that’s just what we know about. How much worse does it have to get before we say enough is enough?"
Permanent global war on terror and militarization of domestic law enforcement. Surveillance state. "News" agencies which function solely as the propaganda organ for their respective political overlords. Rising income inequality and lowered standard of living for the masses. Orwell is spinning in his grave.
QuietShootr
11-15-14, 10:27
Did you guys do away with some of the resident statists while I was out? Or has this finally gotten so bad, even the lockstep blue-liners here can't defend it?
montanadave
11-15-14, 12:02
Did you guys do away with some of the resident statists while I was out? Or has this finally gotten so bad, even the lockstep blue-liners here can't defend it?
Everybody talks shit about "government overreach" and "abuse of executive power" . . . until they're the ones getting to do the overreachin' and abusin'.
Absolute power and all that.
I'm so sick off all of them I could puke.
So in other words, I should pack up shop and go find a cave in canada to live in?
Only after you write a macro to keep your online presence consistent. Dropping off the grid will flag you as a threat. Why would anyone drop off the net unless they have something to hide and all.
Having grown up with the Romanian Secret Police watching our every move (not quote as efficient as the Stasi, but still a serious threat) I was looked at like a cook when I expressed my opinion that the trends I was seeing here were awful similar to what I left behind. Suck to right...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.