PDA

View Full Version : AR pistol legality question (Federal+PA?). sorry guys, my Google FU is broken.



domestique
11-15-14, 23:28
Sorry guys, my Google FU is broken on this question. Sorry mods if I put this in the wrong sub forum. I figured the NFA guys would have more knowledge on the Federal laws.

The plan. To build an AR "pistol" using a 11.5" upper, pistol AR lower, Law tactical folder and a SIG brace. This will put me over the 26" OAL length and technically make it a "Firearm" (allowing a VFG, etc. ).

However, I want to be able to carry this concealed and loaded in a backpack.

In PA this is considered a firearm and would be covered under my LTCF to carry loaded and concealed in my car.

But, is this legal on a Federal level? A link to federal ruling would be most helpful. My searching doesn't stipulate a maximum length for a pistol..... but wanted to ask the hive before I started this project.







Before someone says: "why not just SBR it? ". I have a couple SBR's, but would rather have a platform that allows me to take it across state lines on trips without notifying the ATF (obviously all other State laws apply).

EDIT TO ADD: this would be WITH OUT a VFG. I've found some ATF letters that indicates concealing a 26"+ firearm with a VFG now makes it a AOW (due to concealing).


Edit to ADD: Here is PA's definition: my understanding is that Iam covered to carry a SBR, or AR pistol loaded in my car with my LTCF.

§*33.102.*Definitions.

*The following words and terms, when used in this chapter, have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:*

***Firearm as defined in section 6102 of the act—A pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, a shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or a rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or a pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.*

***Firearm as defined in section 6111.2 of the act—A weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosion or the frame or receiver of the weapon.*

DWood
11-16-14, 11:13
Your understanding of pistol and firearm are backwards. Being 26" or longer doesn't make it a firearm; it is still a pistol. Being 26" or longer allows you to attach a vertical grip and reclassifies it as a firearm (not restricted by NFA rules). Remove the grip and it is a pistol again.

There is another forum with stickies devoted to AR pistols that you may find helpful.

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

domestique
11-16-14, 14:08
Thanks.

I love how there is so much grey area for stuff that can land you in jail.

From what i read on a couple sites, it appears that "concealing" a pistol that is over 26" is fine unless you put that VFG on. But, a VFG and concealing now makes it a AOW again.


For my purposes I'm going to forgo the VFG, and just run a 11.5" upper, folding sig brace and possibly a handstop... it won't be as controllable as my SBR, but will allow me to carry it loaded and concealed in my vehicle (in accordance with my State laws).

DWood
11-16-14, 17:04
.................. it won't be as controllable as my SBR,..................

I'm not sure why you would think that. Put it together and shoot it before you jump to conclusions.

domestique
11-16-14, 17:27
I'm not sure why you would think that. Put it together and shoot it before you jump to conclusions.


Edit: maybe I should have used the word "comfortable".

Just basing that off of my shooting style with using a forward grip on my other rifles. I was never a fan of the AFG, and currently run either a stubby VFG on one, or a Lanco grip stop on another (that I believe is still pending ATF approval for pistol use). Being able to conceal a 26"+ AR pistol while loaded is more important to me then running a VFG.

munchie3409
11-18-14, 08:33
I live in PA and I built an AR15 with Law Tactical folder and sig brace as well. I feel that too many people worry too much and try to get answers in forums, which at times opens up that "can of worms."

I agree with DWood...the 26" OAL is for vertical grips.

jpmuscle
11-18-14, 10:59
Quick question. Is that 26" OAL measure from end of buffer tube to end of muzzle device or to the end of the muzzle less the muzzle device? I assume the latter no?

Renegade04
11-18-14, 15:40
Quick question. Is that 26" OAL measure from end of buffer tube to end of muzzle device or to the end of the muzzle less the muzzle device? I assume the latter no?

From the end of the buffer tube to the end of the muzzle of the barrel (less muzzle device) or to the end of the muzzle device only if it is pinned and welded making it permanently affixed to the barrel.

jpmuscle
11-18-14, 16:40
From the end of the buffer tube to the end of the muzzle of the barrel (less muzzle device) or to the end of the muzzle device only if it is pinned and welded making it permanently affixed to the barrel.
That's what I figured. Just wanted to double check as these laws are asinine to begin with. Looks like no vfg for me.

LastRites
11-19-14, 07:13
Get a longer tube, such as what KAK sells, may take you over the limit.

Renegade04
11-19-14, 08:01
Get a longer tube, such as what KAK sells, may take you over the limit.

Midwest Industries also has a longer tube.