View Full Version : Any real drawbacks to using a muzzle brake over a flash hider on a fighting carbine?
Curious what the consensous is on running an effective muzzle brake in-place of a flash hider on a duty/patrol rifle. I understand there is more muzzle flash, and more concussion from the muzzle blast, but while shooting a carbine recently that had Surefire MB556K attached, I was amazed at how effective it was at keeping the carbine on target during multiple rapid fire shooting drills. It was a noticable difference compared to my carbines Vortex flash hider.
That lead me to think, what could be more "tactical" than being able to deliver multiple, accurate, rapid fire shots on target? What would the trade-off be if I switched to the SF MB556K over the Vortex FH?
I am not overly concerned about concealing my position as this is a patrol rifle that will likely be deployed in a rapidly developing scenario, such as an active shooter incident, etc.
Additionally, the concussion from the SF brake wasnt unmanageable at all, and the report was not much louder than my Vortex, atleast from my vantage point it wasnt.
I am thinking that the benfits of the SF MB556K far outweight those of the Vortex. What do you all think???
Good question. Muzzle breaks have come a long way. Many of them are now very effective brakes while maintaining tolerable noise levels.
Like you mentioned, some of the most recent ones to hit the market are so good at what they do it is hard to discount their use on a fighting carbine.
After shooting the PWS variant as well as the Surefire brake that you mentioned, I am interested to hear what people have to say.
The PWS Flash Suppressing break seems to be kind of the best of both worlds. I've never shot one, but have to assume there are at least some trade-offs. I don't know if the breaks ability to tame recoil and muzzle rise would be affected, but the flash suppression capability I would ASSUME would be somewhat less than a dedicated FS. However some flash suppression would be better than none and the ability to quickly deliver a fusillade of rounds accurately on target would seem to more than balance the equation, so to speak. Anyone know what the muzzle blast/noise is like from the PWS offering?
-RD62
What do you all think???
I honestly think that there's way too much nonsense out there and that 98% of users would be just fine with the A2 or A1 bird cage. Even on SBRs I've found the A2 birdcage to be more than adequate.
For anything other than competitive uses with the 5.56, brakes are silly rubbish! :p
Nick,
Thought about this several times myself, and I have gone back and forth on the issue.
Muzzle brakes obviously have some benefits (quicker shots on target, etc), but with those benefits come some draw backs (increased noise, increased muzzle blast, adversley effecting other officers within close proximity to your muzzle)
When you deploy your carbine, how often are you inside a building (ie. hallway, other enclosed area), and how often are you in close proximity to other officers?
Based on my experiences, those are probably going to be your two main concers when using a muzzle brake on a duty gun.
Hallways (or other tightly confined areas) and having the muzzle of another Officer's muzzle close to the side of my head / face (within 24" - 36") are the times when I noticed another Officer's muzzle device the most.
S/F,
Jeff
I have shot the PWS FSC556 and in my opinion the SF MB556K does a much better job of controlling the muzzle rise.
The SF MB556K directs the flash signature out to the sides. I guess the fact that the SF brake has a more significant flash could be the only potential draw-back, but im curious if anyone that has shot a carbine with the MB556K attached at night can relate if its flash signature causes any temporary blindness while shooting....
Jay Cunningham
06-24-08, 21:10
Consider shooting prone on a street, possibly underneath a vehicle or overtop a curb. Kicking up a lot of crap may be a consideration.
Jeff/Thekatar,
Good points to consider.
DemiGod,
I used to think the same until I shot Sully's Grail with the SF MB556K brake on it. It made a significant diffence in being able to keep the Aimpoints dot pointed exactly where I wanted to keep it pointed during rapid fire.
I asked myself this question also, and being the High Roller that I am ( :rolleyes: ), I bought one of these : http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=2&idproduct=9
It works as advertised but is it with $80 more than an A2...F$%K NO- the main drawback besides price is lenght- it turns a 16" into an 18". Not sure about about
how much crap it kicks up when shooting low, when I get back from Iraq I'll do my best to get it dirty.
Maybe ask yourself this: "what's more important to you, hiding your flash signature or follow-up shots"? Then figure out the +/-'s of both questions.
As USMC03 mentions, if you have any intention of firing your carbine indoors, especially in a hallway, the blast from most muzzle brakes can literally feel like someone hit you in the side of the head.
I used to shoot a ban-era FAL at matches, and a few years ago I went to a match with a large shoot house stage. You started with two targets outside, then opened the door and went in. The SO was following behind with the timer. As soon as I stepped through the door and started shooting I heard the whole firing line behind me erupt in laughter. I had no idea why, so I just kept on shooting. It turns out that the muzzle blast from the brake on that thing had driven the SO, even with hearing protection, running from the shoot house. At the time everyone thought it was pretty funny, but it told me that if I was ever going to be shooting that thing indoors I needed to put something else on the end of the barrel.
Too loud for me.
There's that too. :)
The Archangel
06-25-08, 10:52
but the flash suppression capability I would ASSUME would be somewhat less than a dedicated FS. However some flash suppression would be better than none and the ability to quickly deliver a fusillade of rounds accurately on target would seem to more than balance the equation, so to speak. Anyone know what the muzzle blast/noise is like from the PWS offering?
-RD62
Compliments of Silvers...
USGI A2 FH (XM193)
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/128/11621/227983.jpg
PWS FSC556 (XM193)
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/128/11621/227987.jpg
As far as noise, it is loud, but it's not like A2's, Vortex's, Phantom's, or KX3's are quiet either. Use ear pro and you'll be fine. However, side muzzle blast is an issue if you're shooting next to someone's head indoors like USMC03.
Cool. Looks like it suppresses the flash pretty well. Is there a comparison of the dB values of various breaks perpendicular to the barrel? Which are loudest? How do they compare to traditional flash suppressors? A2, Phantom, Vortex, Blackout, etc?
-RD62
P.S. Ya'll liked my use of fusillade, didn't ya? :D
Failure2Stop
06-25-08, 12:19
It all comes down to your definition of the word "tactical" and your employment of the weapon.
When it comes to shooting indoors, everything sucks. If you aren't comfortable with loud bangs, put on some kind of hearing protection. Not that the concept of hearing protection is very tactical or sexy, but the fact is that gunfights are loud. Most people do not train without hearing protection, while most gunfights happen without any, with bigger bangs (if you think your muzzle break is loud, it is nothing compared to the sound of close-range gunfire coming at you, entering on a bang, or a nice frag).
Team-mates inside rooms while training don't seem overly fond of most muzzle-breaks, but of the ones I have tried (other than suppressors and the A2 variety), the PWS FSC is the least bad. And at the end of the day, if your ability to drill some f**k head with an NSR followed by a headshot saves a team-mates life, he probably won't care how loud your muzzlebreak was.
In an indoor, team setting, I would prefer to have suppressors on all weapons, which are damn fine muzzle-breaks of themselves.
The Archangel
06-25-08, 13:24
In an indoor, team setting, I would prefer to have suppressors on all weapons, which are damn fine muzzle-breaks of themselves.
Well shit Jack, I would prefer an ultraviolet gamma plasma pulse rifle with Predator thermal sight capability, but not everyone can get a suppressor. :D
Nick, unless you're doing dynamic entry with three of your closest buddies, just get the PWS FSC556 (get the newest model: Quickcomp). If you don't like it, I'll buy it off you for my Noveske 12.5 build.
Failure2Stop
06-25-08, 14:36
Well shit Jack, I would prefer an ultraviolet gamma plasma pulse rifle with Predator thermal sight capability, but not everyone can get a suppressor. :D
I hear that MagPul is working on one. Of course, the bastards won't tell us the ship date.
:D
bullitt5172
06-25-08, 19:49
I was on the fence as well until the guys at PWS sent me a FSC556 QuickComp to try out. It's a great piece of kit. Basically eliminates muzzle rise and the guys next to me in that last class I took didn't seem to mind the minimal blast increase. I'd like to try the Surefire to compare but right now the PWS FSC556 gets my vote.
I honestly think that there's way too much nonsense out there and that 98% of users would be just fine with the A2 or A1 bird cage. Even on SBRs I've found the A2 birdcage to be more than adequate.
For anything other than competitive uses with the 5.56, brakes are silly rubbish! :p
Wisdom
SIMPLYDYNAMIC
06-26-08, 01:28
I hear that MagPul is working on one. Of course, the bastards won't tell us the ship date.
:D
What are you talking about? I already got mine... wait a minute....;)
variablebinary
06-26-08, 03:37
My very first AR15 had a Brake. It was damn loud. Outdoors...Indoors...LOUD...
The A2 is fine and all I use currently...
chillindrdude
06-26-08, 06:09
What are you talking about? I already got mine... wait a minute....;)
oh that is just mean! :D
this a great thread, as i think many folks have thought of the same thing. for my 1st AR, i opted for a PWS. based on some of the reviews i've read, it seems to strike a fair balance between suppression and stability. because its technically a muzzle brake in BATF's eyes, in case the government decides to outlaw "evil" flash suppressors, i'm still GTG.
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