View Full Version : Damn I will never buy from knesek guns again!
Hello my fellow m4c members!
I purchased an HK P30LS from knesek guns inc, and thier prices was great! Purchased it online and checked out on Thursday. They gave me a total of $810 and I was wowed! So over the weekend I've received an email and I didn't check it till this morning, they charged me $887 on thier invoice?!? I was like WTF? They had hidden charges that was not listed on thier checkout and added it separately, and just emailed the new invoice. If I only knew they would charge $77 more for it I would have passed and got it somewhere else. My stupid @ss only transferred $840 (because I thought it was only $810 and gave room just in case for shipping) on my Card so I got charged multiple insufficient funds on my account. I called them this morning to confirm what the charges was for and they told me $35 shipping $8 insurance and 4% on CC fees. An employee there (if u need his name I will give it to u) that I spoke to today said you cannot return or cancel your order, unless you pay the 45% of the total price including all the other fees. I've never had a bad experience like this ever before in purchasing online. Now I have to eat it, and pay extra.
So my recommendations is to stay away from Knesek guns, the person I spoke with had no considerations for the inconvenience that was put on me, and basically said to me you can return it and $400~ back or just deal with it. Never again will I buy from knesek guns in AZ. Wish the employee had some kind of heart to atleast throw something in for my inconvenience but they didn't even try. So never again.
Just wanted to vent my frustrations, sorry M4c members just had a bad start to my Monday/week.
Alpha Sierra
11-17-14, 12:37
Good heads up. Can you contest the transaction with your CC company?
I'm just going to eat the $179 ($77 from knesek, and $102 from my DC/visa) there goes my $200 rebate. Fml
I'm not sure of all the ins and outs of charging on credit cards, but it seems like they were less than honest with you regarding who much it was going to cost, and I would at least try to have things made right for you. Either way a bad deal and a pain for you to deal with.
To not be 100% up front with how much is coming off your credit card is shady, or incompetent at best. That's not OK.
As to doing nothing to try to make it up, or even just make you feel better; this seems to be the new standard for professionalism, especially in the gun world. Act like a prideful dickhead and like nothing is ever your fault, even when it is.
That's cool. They'll never wonder why I never came back for more business, and I'm totally fine with that. Market selection puts probably 3/4ths of these ass hats out of business in the first 3 years. Capitalism is self-policing like that.
I'd be letting my CC dispute that one for me.
This is definitely not the first time that this has happened. Knesek is known for having shady business practices. It's a shame because they always have quality product "in stock." I live in Arkansas and I always take my business elsewhere. They have screwed over FAR too many people; sorry that it happened to you.
I hope word of this spreads like wildfire and this company bites the Dust. That is unnacceptable. Will be sharing with the Folks in my AO.
Leaveammoforme
11-17-14, 15:33
This is already known about them. I would dispute it now w/CC company as already stated. Go any furthur and you risk your "in-stock" pistol never showing up and being hit for a 45% restock when you finally request a refund.
Someone should email them with a link to this thread, and any others (since it sounds like a recurring thing) and a friendly suggestion to clean up their act. I actually tried to, but in the 25 seconds I was willing to devote to it, I could find no clickable link to their email, and gave up.
It sounds like a guy and a garage operation, but their website certainly wants you to believe they're a big outfit. Can't be that big if I've never heard of them. My experience with guy-and-a-garage outfits is that the 'guy' is generally struggling to manage everything and bring in a profit, and doesn't have time for customer service. That and he's probably just a ****ing prick to begin with.
Pricks are endemic to our hobby, it seems.
Corporate Headquarters:
KGI
1204 Knesek Lane
Van Buren, Arkansas
72956
USA
Tel: 479-474-1680
Fax: 479-471-0377
E-mail Contacts:
Business Relations - info@knesekguns.com
Import/Export - international@knesekguns.com
General Product Inquiries - sales@knesekguns.com
Key Contacts
Larry R. Knesek II - President / CEO - lknesek@knesekgroup.com
Max Rodriguez - Senior Vice President - mrodriguez@knesekgroup.com
Tim Beagle - Purchasing & Receiving - tbeagle@knesekgroup.com
Chris Villanueva - Custom Shop / Firearm Finishes - cvillanueva@knesekgroup.com
We appreciate your business!
Leaveammoforme
11-17-14, 15:46
I emailed Larry (?) the last time someone got boned asking about his BBB rating. His response was he doesn't pay the BBB 'blackmails'.
I emailed Larry (?) the last time someone got boned asking about his BBB rating. His response was he doesn't pay the BBB 'blackmails'.
You can still have a BBB rating, even if you don't purchase their accreditation package. All you have to do to get a good rating is have a heartbeat and have no unresolved problems for X number of years.... 1 or 3 or something. It's really not hard.
Ouch
http://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/guns-and-gunsmiths/knesek-guns-in-van-buren-ar-90095220
RAM Engineer
11-17-14, 15:58
Never heard of them before. Good to know.
The important part from Dead Man's Link above....
According to BBB files, this company has had complaints alleging that often the company is not able to honor original contract terms by supplying the exact merchandise ordered and instead offers substitute merchandise; if the consumer does not accept substitute merchandise and chooses to cancel the order, the company then charges a large restocking fee. Consumers have had difficulty obtaining refunds when the order cannot be filled by the company.
Consumers with complaints against this company may file a complaint with the BBB and may also wish to contact the following agencies for assistance:
ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives)
Little Rock Field Office
Resident Agent in Charge
425 West Capitol, Room 775
Little Rock, Arkansas 72201 USA
Voice (501) 324-6181
Fax (501) 324-5301
Arkansas Attorney General's Office
323 Center Street, Suite 200
Little Rock, AR 72201
Phone: (501) 682-2007
Toll Free in Arkansas: 1-800-482-8982
Fax: (501) 682-8084Website: www.ag.arkansas.gov
Email: oag@ag.state.ar.us
Interesting. Knesek (NWA Tactical) has a 98% positive feedback rating on GunBroker. Their listings on GunBroker clearly indicate the 4% credit card charge and the responsibility for shipping and insurance. As to the rest of it, I'm confused. You didn't think they weren't going to add shipping charges did you? Insurance?
OTOH, Googline Knesek/NWA Tactical does return what seems to be an inordinate number of dissatisfied customers.
I'm really not sure where this stemmed from as after this has been brought to my attention everything checks out that we processed this normally.
I was presented evidence where you were sent an invoice with the charges and total before the card was run and you replied giving my staff the green light to process the card. I apologize if you did not review the invoice first or there was some misunderstanding, but it appears that everything involved with this transaction was on the up and up, and I'm really not sure what could have been done. Nothing shady, everything was totally upfront and in black and white.
I apologize that our website does not automatically calculate the processing and shipping charges, we use an older system so those have to be added manually - it states this on the website to let you know that those will be added to the final invoice. We are in the process of integrating some new software that will calculate the total charges upfront so you'll have the details more quickly, but again, the card is never charged until you have your final total and confirm it with us.
I'm really not sure what to say to some of the other folks chiming in here, but I always work to ensure that all our customers are happy, and if you'd like to come by the shop anytime to discuss anything, I'm here most every day of the week.
thanks again
-Max
Wish the employee had some kind of heart to atleast throw something in for my inconvenience but they didn't even try.
I also show that Tim had noted he was throwing in a free T-shirt and asked what size you wear so he could grab one.
MountainRaven
11-17-14, 18:50
Someone should email them with a link to this thread, and any others (since it sounds like a recurring thing) and a friendly suggestion to clean up their act. I actually tried to, but in the 25 seconds I was willing to devote to it, I could find no clickable link to their email, and gave up.
It sounds like a guy and a garage operation, but their website certainly wants you to believe they're a big outfit. Can't be that big if I've never heard of them. My experience with guy-and-a-garage outfits is that the 'guy' is generally struggling to manage everything and bring in a profit, and doesn't have time for customer service. That and he's probably just a ****ing prick to begin with.
Pricks are endemic to our hobby, it seems.
Google Street View with HD1911's address info appears to support your supposition that it is a guy-in-a-garage operation.
Google Street View with HD1911's address info appears to support your supposition that it is a guy-in-a-garage operation.
This?
29758
Looks more legit than I would have thought.
MountainRaven
11-17-14, 19:04
This?
29758
Looks more legit than I would have thought.
Check street view.
Looks like 'just' a house from the street.
Leaveammoforme
11-17-14, 19:05
Maybe they turned a new leaf. Maybe from here on out everything will be on the up & up. Maybe.
Opksrj,
I reported your post for lack of a industry disclosure. I truly hope everything you say is true as far as updating website and YOUR customer service level. Your employer has had some major self inflicted dings.
The 45% restocking fee is garbage. And don't even try to justify it. I am a business owner and I know for a fact that there's no justification for it worth a damn.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
Maybe they turned a new leaf. Maybe from here on out everything will be on the up & up. Maybe.
I don't know, that's one hell of a shitty BBB profile. They should probably start by getting those opened cases resolved. Displays a level of **** 'em I certainly wouldn't be comfortable doing business with.
Ouch
http://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/guns-and-gunsmiths/knesek-guns-in-van-buren-ar-90095220
I never do business with any company without first checking out their BBB rating. This is a first for me. I've seen C- and D's, but never a flat out F, with so many unresolved complaints. There's always that one person out there that you can never make happy, but that many pissed off customers has to mean something much more than everything being on the "up and up".
Don Robison
11-17-14, 21:00
You have crap business practices when the BBB is telling people to contact the ATF and AG to files complaints.
I don't know, that's one hell of a shitty BBB profile. They should probably start by getting those opened cases resolved. Displays a level of **** 'em I certainly wouldn't be comfortable doing business with.
We've resolved as many as possible, the BBB refuses to remove or close them resolved unfortunately.
We've resolved as many as possible, the BBB refuses to remove or close them resolved unfortunately.
I'd guess they refuse to close those complaints because you refuse to make those cases right.
they were made right but the BBB office claims that they won't re-open them to close them resolved. :(
I'd guess they refuse to close those complaints because you refuse to make those cases right.
Would love to understand how you justify a 45% restock fee. That seems like an exorbitant percentage.
Damien,
thanks for the reply, We took a lot of input from our clients and that fee was actually lowered some time back (I think over a year ago now) in the listed T&Cs on the site but people still are under the impression that we have that policy for some reason.
sidewaysil80
11-18-14, 13:17
Damien,
thanks for the reply, We took a lot of input from our clients and that fee was actually lowered some time back (I think over a year ago now) in the listed T&Cs on the site but people still are under the impression that we have that policy for some reason.
An employee there (if u need his name I will give it to u) that I spoke to today said you cannot return or cancel your order, unless you pay the 45% of the total price...
I guess this employee didn't get the memo.
I never do business with any company without first checking out their BBB rating.
I also check ResellerRatings.com, here is theirs: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Knesek_Guns_Inc
While it is 100% positive, it only consists of 2 reviews.
sidewaysil80
11-18-14, 13:30
I also check ResellerRatings.com, here is theirs: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Knesek_Guns_Inc
While it is 100% positive, it only consists of 2 reviews.
Yeah, 2 reviews don't replace a history of complaints and questionable sales tactics nor the worst BBB rating I've ever seen.
I guess this employee didn't get the memo.
I already asked him about this earlier, honest mistake and just misspoke when he was on the phone. Again something I would have been glad to address with the customer and make sure that we got something taken care of for him if he would have shot me an email or given me a call at all.
I already asked him about this earlier, honest mistake and just misspoke when he was on the phone. Again something I would have been glad to address with the customer and make sure that we got something taken care of for him if he would have shot me an email or given me a call at all.
If you want people to believe you have turned over a new leaf it's simple. Allow the OP to cancel his transaction and make sure you have all your fees in bold on your website. Make the re-stocking fee a more reasonable number, say 10% going forward and I think you'd be good. By the way, a 4% CC fee? Really? The card companies charge you 3% so how do you justify the extra % on a payment form that is more streamlined and aside from the 3% easier for you it use? It seems like your counting on a percentage of your revenue coming from sneaking in fees people aren't counting on, kind of like massive corporate banks. You can run your business how you want but I'd think it bed hard to feel good about it. Could we get a commitment from you to eliminate all this silliness moving forward? People love a redemption story.
Why any re-stocking fee at all? It's things like this that make the difference between a company that does meh-OK service, and one that people love to do business with. If your margin is so thin that a 10% restocking fee on returned items is going to make a difference, your odds of overall success aren't looking too good. If it's just a way to bring in more revenue or feel like you're compensating yourself for 5 minutes extra effort on those rare orders, then I guess you've decided that's better than return business.
hey Jedi,
thanks for the reply - we've actually been trying to reach him since yesterday to try and resolve this for him, Tim brought the issue to my attention after his telephone conversation yesterday but I haven't been able to get an answer as to what he'd like us to do to resolve the situation.
We've used a few different processors over the years and 4% is what we get hit with on most transactions, sometimes the fee we pay is as high as 8% but we don't go back and add that extra 4 if that's the case. There are actually some times though that they charge a lower rate and we've either caught it when it's processing to lower that amount or given them credit back.
High Tower
11-18-14, 15:15
I emailed Larry (?) the last time someone got boned asking about his BBB rating. His response was he doesn't pay the BBB 'blackmails'.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but the BBB is a joke and is borderline blackmail. You can buy your rating. I've seen it happen and as soon as I saw that, I lost any faith I had in the BBB.
As of a couple years ago, the cost of an A+ rating was $365.
I have my own business and I've always eaten the 3% CC fee as a "The cost of doing business" model. Maybe it's different in the gun world as I have no clue as to what the markup is.
I have my own business and I've always eaten the 3% CC fee as a "The cost of doing business" model. Maybe it's different in the gun world as I have no clue as to what the markup is.
3% CC fee is pretty standard on Gunbroker. There are sellers who advertise "no credit card fees" but more charge than not.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but the BBB is a joke and is borderline blackmail. You can buy your rating. I've seen it happen and as soon as I saw that, I lost any faith I had in the BBB.
As of a couple years ago, the cost of an A+ rating was $365.
You can't "buy" an A+ rating. You get an A if you've flown straight for some period of time, and the "+" comes from buying into the program. Last I talked to them, it was more like $500 to purchase accreditation.
It doesn't buy you a better rating than you'd otherwise have, in theory. But of course being smart people, we can surmise the BBB will heavily favor an "accredited" member in any dispute, so long as you make at least a half-assed attempt at resolution; which shouldn't be hard.
BBB isn't a tax-payer funded organization. They provide a useful consumer product. Perhaps not useful to everyone, but no business is. They have to make their money somewhere, so they make it through membership via "accreditation." You buy into the network for the marketing bonus you get, and then you get some small level of protection in disputes. It also adds a bit of insulation against tort.
If you're doing a significant volume of business, the fee is small price to pay. If you're just running a garage operation and your client base as a percentage is a couple of digits right of the decimal point as compared to a bigger firm; 5 bones probably isn't worth it to you.
This thread is a shining example of the trials and tribulations of trying to save a buck.
Buy from a KNOWN vendor, period, even if it means you pay more. I regularly, and gladly, pay more to support companies I know to be honest, up front, and have the customers best interests in mind. Seek out and find vendors trying to earn repeat and referral business. Simply looking through a return policy is a good barometer for a vendors level of customer service and overall business practices. 45% restock fees, past or present, tells me everything I need to know about Knesek.
When buying tangible products online, it's the customer service you're paying for.
an upcharge for a CC is industry standard.If you do online purchasing the details and amount of the upcharge usually 3-4% again is standard. Buyer erred and wants to bemoan his mistake why besmirch the sellor?? $35 shipping is not out of line nor is the insurance fee!?
THIS FROM THEIR WEBSITE:
Q: What credit cards do you accept?
A: Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover. Please be aware that credit cards are subject to a 4% processing fee.
I'm curious about the restocking fee, too. According to one BBB complaint: customer orders a product, the vendor is unable to provide the item ordered and offers a substitute. If the buyer declines and asks for a refund, they are charged a restocking fee? If you can't supply the item ordered, what the heck do you have to restock?
CC fees are complete BS in this day and age, hell I put down payments on 2 cars in August on an AMEX here in ATL....My gun dealer of 10+ years in Birmingham doesn't charge them... Grant doesn't charge them... 45% restocking fee for firearms, even more ridiculous.
Caveat Emptor.
I'm curious about the restocking fee, too. According to one BBB complaint: customer orders a product, the vendor is unable to provide the item ordered and offers a substitute. If the buyer declines and asks for a refund, they are charged a restocking fee? If you can't supply the item ordered, what the heck do you have to restock?
They aren't the only who will hit you for that if you order something and it isn't in stock. Had another very well known site do that to me, 15% restocking fee for a stock no less, haha. They ended up waving said fee after I got on the phone and reamed some poor supervisor's ass for a solid 10 minutes explaining just how ****ed their CS was and the shit I had dealt with them over during the past week and a half. Took them another week to process my refund as well. And this was from a site that I had done business with for about a year at the time. Needless to say it was the last time I did business with them for over two years.
Sadly, one of the best CS experiences I have had when dealing with a bad order/canceling an order has been botach. Say what you will, but had to cancel an order when the items I ordered were not in stock though the site had said otherwise. Sent and email, got a reply, funds back in the account within 48 hours. No muss, no fuss, thanks for your time. I haven't done business with them since, but it had nothing to do with lack of CS and everything to do with just not having anything I needed right now pop up on my radar.
MountainRaven
11-18-14, 23:54
I have my own business and I've always eaten the 3% CC fee as a "The cost of doing business" model. Maybe it's different in the gun world as I have no clue as to what the markup is.
CC fees are complete BS in this day and age, hell I put down payments on 2 cars in August on an AMEX here in ATL....My gun dealer of 10+ years in Birmingham doesn't charge them... Grant doesn't charge them... 45% restocking fee for firearms, even more ridiculous.
Caveat Emptor.
These.
None of my LGS's (or nearly LGS's - within an hour's drive) upcharge for credit cards, although a few of the smaller ones will offer a discount (usually 3%) if you're paying cash or check. Neither do any of the online firearms retailers I frequent or have used in the past.
I do not know if it is still this way or not, but at one time it was a violation of the seller's agreement with the card processor to charge different prices for cash and credit, which is what an upcharge does.
Crow Hunter
11-19-14, 08:06
These.
None of my LGS's (or nearly LGS's - within an hour's drive) upcharge for credit cards, although a few of the smaller ones will offer a discount (usually 3%) if you're paying cash or check. Neither do any of the online firearms retailers I frequent or have used in the past.
You know that is the same thing, right?;)
Most places that you deal with face to face, as opposed to a retail giant, have a "cash price" and a "credit price" in my experience. It is my habit, when I buy something from there is to see what their discount is. If it is more than my cash back credit card (2%) I pay cash.
It is 6 of one or half a dozen of the other. Your price is either baked in (and you pay more if you use cash without asking for a discount) or you see the cash price and you choose to pay a convenience fee.
Personally, if I were doing the majority of my business online/mail order I would use the price baked in.
If I were doing the majority of my business in a face to face setting, I would do the 3-4% added in for credit cards.
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