View Full Version : Gas ring & Cotter pin "upgrades"?
PatrioticDisorder
11-18-14, 21:38
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are regarding "upgraded" gas rings & cotter pins (JP enhanced gas rings & the KNS perma pin firing pin retaining pin), snake oil gimmicks or solid upgrades?
Regalkismet
11-18-14, 23:25
I think the JP gas rings are fantastic.... Have them on 6 AR's including my 308....work as designed.
My kns pin broke on installation... Forever is a short time!
I would NEVER buy anything from JP or KNS.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the correct rings and pin. If you're getting pin damage, there's a problem with the gun.
Both are common wear items. Replace them as part of your scheduled maintenance.
PatrioticDisorder
11-19-14, 09:13
BCM for gas rings but where is everyone finding QUALITY cotter pins? I don't see cotter pins being sold individually on BCMs website...
I was surprised to see they weren't included with the SOPMOD bolt rebuild kit.
BCM for gas rings but where is everyone finding QUALITY cotter pins? I don't see cotter pins being sold individually on BCMs website...
BCM for gas rings but where is everyone finding QUALITY cotter pins? I don't see cotter pins being sold individually on BCMs website...
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Retaining-Pin-for-Firing-Pin-AR15-p/retaining%20pin%20ar15.htm
BufordTJustice
11-19-14, 10:45
Two things about the JP gas ring:
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPEGR-223
Thing 1) I don't know what grade steel it is made from.
Thing 2) It is obviously ground to a smaller exterior diameter than thr McFarland rings to allow for initial operating smoothness at the expense of the rings properly mating with the interior of the bolt carrier expansion chamber bore. McFarland springs are stiff when initially installed, but this goes away with a few hundred rounds.
At nearly 3 times the price of a McFarland ring from Grant, I'm not interested at this point. I LIKE that the McFarland ring fits tightly. I only use them from Grant and I have complete confidence in them. 'Gunz has also had good experiences with them.
No offense to JP, and I applaude their desire to advance the art.....but I'm not sure about this. I do like the clean and flat grind on the exterior though.
ive been using BCM cotter pins and gas rings. I noticed that the BCM gas rings aren't quite as tight/they aren't pushing quite as forcefully on the walls of the carrier as my Colt rings. Dunno if that's worth worrying about. My rifles run flawlessly. Id definitely forego the kns cotter pin (ive heard lots of bad things about them). Don't know anything about JP. Ive never used any of their products.
Regalkismet
11-19-14, 23:11
Two things about the JP gas ring:
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPEGR-223
Thing 1) I don't know what grade steel it is made from.
Thing 2) It is obviously ground to a smaller exterior diameter than thr McFarland rings to allow for initial operating smoothness at the expense of the rings properly mating with the interior of the bolt carrier expansion chamber bore. McFarland springs are stiff when initially installed, but this goes away with a few hundred rounds.
At nearly 3 times the price of a McFarland ring from Grant, I'm not interested at this point. I LIKE that the McFarland ring fits tightly. I only use them from Grant and I have complete confidence in them. 'Gunz has also had good experiences with them.
No offense to JP, and I applaude their desire to advance the art.....but I'm not sure about this. I do like the clean and flat grind on the exterior though.
Have you tried the JP' s? They definitely fit different than the McFarlands do when new.... I've got a bunch of extra McFarland's in my spare parts kit now that I switched to the JP rings.... Compare them side by side and the JP even looks like a much higher quality part.... Install it and it simply operates smoother.... In my experience John Paul knows his shit and makes first class rifles and kit.... Yeah they are $10 but I'd bet they outlast the McFarlands and what is $10? Not a lot of money.... Are the needed? Nope.... But neither are the McFarlands. I think it's money well spent if you like the idea of a one piece gas ring.
davidjinks
11-19-14, 23:35
What will these upgraded parts do that the standard ones won't?
I've never had problems with the standard gas rings and cotter pins that come standard on the Colt bolts that I use. Finding replacement rings/pins are an easy day and they're cost effective compared to some of the "upgraded" parts I've seen.
You can buy OEM Colt parts from SAW all day or BCM OEM from BCM all day and still not brake the bank.
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are regarding "upgraded" gas rings & cotter pins (JP enhanced gas rings & the KNS perma pin firing pin retaining pin), snake oil gimmicks or solid upgrades?
BufordTJustice
11-19-14, 23:54
Have you tried the JP' s? They definitely fit different than the McFarlands do when new.... I've got a bunch of extra McFarland's in my spare parts kit now that I switched to the JP rings.... Compare them side by side and the JP even looks like a much higher quality part.... Install it and it simply operates smoother.... In my experience John Paul knows his shit and makes first class rifles and kit.... Yeah they are $10 but I'd bet they outlast the McFarlands and what is $10? Not a lot of money.... Are the needed? Nope.... But neither are the McFarlands. I think it's money well spent if you like the idea of a one piece gas ring.
The McFarland rings are a proven COTS upgrade. When jp submits his rings to testing at CRANE, then I'll believe they are an improvement over the McFarland......and not before then.
Operating smoothly in this instance means that the rings are already machined down to an assumed worn spec that allows less contact with the expansion chamber walls. This means that somebody has had to make an assumption as to what spec a worn-in gas ring SHOULD be. The problem is, what happens when ALL CARRIERS ARE NOT IDENTICAL...especially after chrome is applied?
Having an initial interference fit here is not only recommended, it's the ONLY way the ring can properly mate to each individual expansion chamber.
vicious_cb
11-20-14, 03:39
Have you tried the JP' s? They definitely fit different than the McFarlands do when new.... I've got a bunch of extra McFarland's in my spare parts kit now that I switched to the JP rings.... Compare them side by side and the JP even looks like a much higher quality part.... Install it and it simply operates smoother.... In my experience John Paul knows his shit and makes first class rifles and kit.... Yeah they are $10 but I'd bet they outlast the McFarlands and what is $10? Not a lot of money.... Are the needed? Nope.... But neither are the McFarlands. I think it's money well spent if you like the idea of a one piece gas ring.
Remember that you WANT resistance when moving the bolt back and forth. Testing if your gas ring are worn or not depends on it, you know letting the bolt carrier stand up on its own face down on flat surface without retracting.
outlawturtle
11-20-14, 16:31
Whatever benefit you receive from "upgrading" to these is likely nominal, if any. The gun wouldn't significantly shoot any different that with whatever you have now, unless you have excessively worn gas rings or something. If you need new gas rings and you want to give them a try, sure why not. But spending money to upgrade existing gas rings that work perfectly fine is just that...spending money. You can buy other things that will help you shoot better, like training or more ammo for practice.
-OT
Regalkismet
11-20-14, 23:04
Remember that you WANT resistance when moving the bolt back and forth. Testing if your gas ring are worn or not depends on it, you know letting the bolt carrier stand up on its own face down on flat surface without retracting.
Yes that is the test for traditional gas rings.... Doesn't necessarily mean anything in regards to the JP one piece gas rings as they are designed differently and so far have worked flawless for me in several rifles and I'm guessing in thousands that they produce or that use their enhanced bolt..... That test doesn't work nor was it intended to be used with these gas rings and I'm not sure what that has to do with if they work and are dependable.
Regalkismet
11-20-14, 23:06
Whatever benefit you receive from "upgrading" to these is likely nominal, if any. The gun wouldn't significantly shoot any different that with whatever you have now, unless you have excessively worn gas rings or something. If you need new gas rings and you want to give them a try, sure why not. But spending money to upgrade existing gas rings that work perfectly fine is just that...spending money. You can buy other things that will help you shoot better, like training or more ammo for practice.
-OT
Again it's a $10 part.... I don't buy things that I just need... I buy things I want too... On a regular basis as do most people... I'm pretty sure that expenditure isn't going to affect my purchasing of ammo etc... Lol
Regalkismet
11-20-14, 23:09
The McFarland rings are a proven COTS upgrade. When jp submits his rings to testing at CRANE, then I'll believe they are an improvement over the McFarland......and not before then.
Operating smoothly in this instance means that the rings are already machined down to an assumed worn spec that allows less contact with the expansion chamber walls. This means that somebody has had to make an assumption as to what spec a worn-in gas ring SHOULD be. The problem is, what happens when ALL CARRIERS ARE NOT IDENTICAL...especially after chrome is applied?
Having an initial interference fit here is not only recommended, it's the ONLY way the ring can properly mate to each individual expansion chamber.
I agree that I'd like to see them submitted for testing too.... But they are in all the JP rifles being made and on their enhanced bolts being sold so I'm sure there are a lot out there being used and I haven't heard of any issues... But I digress from my last post.... Have you actually used them? I'm guessing you haven't since you didn't say you had after I initially asked... Maybe you should try one before writing them off.... I've used both... Pretty extensively, and I'm fairly impressed as far as one can be with a silly gas ring..
outlawturtle
11-21-14, 07:11
Again it's a $10 part.... I don't buy things that I just need... I buy things I want too... On a regular basis as do most people... I'm pretty sure that expenditure isn't going to affect my purchasing of ammo etc... Lol
You're right, a $10 part wont break the bank but I've found that little parts that don't really make a huge noticable difference in anything tend to add up over time.
PatrioticDisorder
11-21-14, 07:33
You're right, a $10 part wont break the bank but I've found that little parts that don't really make a huge noticable difference in anything tend to add up over time.
Well I was planning to potentially put these in my "spare no expense builds", which are currently 11.5 & 14.5 Knights uppers on AX556 lowers. If it isn't an upgrade I won't bother with it.
All of this sounds like a solution in search of a problem.. I'll stick with my standard sub-par gas rings and cotter pin.
Anybody know what the life expectancy of a set of gas rings is supposed to be?
Anybody know what the life expectancy of a set of gas rings is supposed to be?
A good test is to stand your BCG up on the bolt. If it holds, they're good. If it falls, replace.
Alaska3006
11-25-14, 19:56
I use the Mcfarland One Piece gas ring like they use in the MK 18
It's called the standing test hold the carrier upright if the bolt falls out the rings are bad.
I've got one upper that came with the machined firing pin retainer pin.
It works fine, but requires a punch tool (glock tool) to remove it.
Regular cotter pins can be snagged out with just a fingernail or the tip of a knife.
I came across the mention of Mcfarland gas rings when I was looking for a thicker stainless gas tube. Seems like a good concept. It got me thinking on what really makes a gas ring wear out. Standard gas rings are "spring loaded", i.e., the split in the ring allows them to be slightly bigger in diameter and then compress to fit the carrier chamber. So when they are worn, is it because metal has been removed from their circumference or the heat and motion have relaxed the spring force? In a perfect world, the inside of the carrier chamber would always be lubed, so the metal to metal wear would be very slight over many cycles, but we know that is not always the case.
While the tolerances of the rings are tight, they aren't that tight. Gas can actually travel through the split, turn perpendicular to the bolt between the rings, through the next split, and so and so forth until it escapes the piston chamber. However, there is great resistance in this pathway and by the time that little bit of gas escapes, the rest of the volume of gas has already done its job and cycled the action.
Question for you: what do you find on the neck of your firing pin? That's right, carbon. Ever wonder where it comes from? Pull your firing pin out and you will see the tail end of the bolt fits in a "tube" in the carrier. Do you think the tolerance between the "tail" and the "tube" is better than the 3 piston rings? Why no rings there since there's nothing keeping gas from blowing past there? Again, we don't need all the gas, just most of it. Whatever finds its way out of the piston chamber around the tail of the bolt winds up caked as carbon on your firing pin.
I said all that to say this: a wound spiral will never be able to keep the same tension as a single ring while simultaneously filling the chamber with its entire circumference of metal unless both the carrier and the spiral ring are machined to exacting tolerances. Since the spiral wound ring layers lay on top of each other, they won't really give much longitudally on the bolt so they are pretty much going to wear until they reach that eqilibirium point where they don't wear any more. At this point, they probably won't hold the bolt in the gravity test, but they also won't let enough gas by to matter either, which is why guys rifles are still functioning when failing the gravity test. Because standard gas rings can "tilt" a bit against the bolt because they are independent, lack of passing the gravity test means there is a pretty sizeable gap around them which could affect functioning. Logic would dictate that the three,standard "loose" rings would have more give and better be able to handle an obstruction or imperfections in the carrier chamber surface than the spiral wound version. But the same logic would dictate that due to the lack of much flex of the spiral wound rings, carbon would never build there in the first place and a carrier imperfection would stop them cold or wear them out very quickly since the layers aren't independent.
I would be interested to know what carriers folks are using that actually have cycling issues when installing Mcfarland springs. The higher spring force and deflection of the standard rings most likely corrects for just about all but the most sloppily built carriers. Which leads me to my last question: Why did Stoner even include the rings if he was okay with gas blowing by the tail of the boat? Was it to account for the manufacturing tolerances at the time?
I would NEVER buy anything from JP or KNS.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the correct rings and pin. If you're getting pin damage, there's a problem with the gun.
+1 on JP. No experience with KNS.
Have had some iffy experience with the fancy "enhanced" gizmos. Specs are out of whack. Will steer clear in the future. Lesson learned.
The McFarland rings are a proven COTS upgrade. When jp submits his rings to testing at CRANE, then I'll believe they are an improvement over the McFarland......and not before then.
Operating smoothly in this instance means that the rings are already machined down to an assumed worn spec that allows less contact with the expansion chamber walls. This means that somebody has had to make an assumption as to what spec a worn-in gas ring SHOULD be. The problem is, what happens when ALL CARRIERS ARE NOT IDENTICAL...especially after chrome is applied?
Having an initial interference fit here is not only recommended, it's the ONLY way the ring can properly mate to each individual expansion chamber.
CRANE 86'ed the McFarland years ago on the mk18s. The didn't solve any problems. They did cause some issues. Gas ring wear is overrated as an issue.
BufordTJustice
11-29-14, 10:54
CRANE 86'ed the McFarland years ago on the mk18s. The didn't solve any problems. They did cause some issues. Gas ring wear is overrated as an issue.
I've heard it said several times that the COTS McFarland ring caused some issues, but I've never been able to ascertain what issues those were. Can you tell me?
Additionally, I've seen nothing but an improvement in service life, with no downsides observed. But I'm not using then on SBR's, either.
I've heard it said several times that the COTS McFarland ring caused some issues, but I've never been able to ascertain what issues those were. Can you tell me?
Additionally, I've seen nothing but an improvement in service life, with no downsides observed. But I'm not using then on SBR's, either.
Some guns just don't run well with them.
Bolts break and barrels burn out before milspec rings on mk18s die. There is zero return for the added cost of the McFarland.
I tried the McFarland rings ordered 4-6 sets put in first set on carbine bolt that had failed standard test but function without failure. After I installed McFarland rings it would short stroke. Placed old rings back in back to no malfunction. I tossed the McFarland rings..... I don't doubt that they work or JP's but my first use has jaded me on them. I then think about a gas engine's, Briggs and Stratton, GM..... it uses 3 individually rings for each "gas cylinder"
Not any where the same. Very true how many cycles do any rifle go through how about the engine in your vehicle without changing rings. I know there is regularly lubricant added in vehicle engine. :rolleyes:
KNS pin I have at least one in a rifle it keeps the firing pin in correct location. It could be a benefit to keep some from disassembling rifle in field and losing firing pin.... ect. My last deployment and others I had some spare cotter pins a few have been used to replace misplaced ones. One I got was for originality sake.
IMHO
BufordTJustice
11-30-14, 19:00
I tried the McFarland rings ordered 4-6 sets put in first set on carbine bolt that had failed standard test but function without failure. After I installed McFarland rings it would short stroke. Placed old rings back in back to no malfunction. I tossed the McFarland rings..... I don't doubt that they work or JP's but my first use has jaded me on them. I then think about a gas engine's, Briggs and Stratton, GM..... it uses 3 individually rings for each "gas cylinder"
Not any where the same. Very true how many cycles do any rifle go through how about the engine in your vehicle without changing rings. I know there is regularly lubricant added in vehicle engine. :rolleyes:
KNS pin I have at least one in a rifle it keeps the firing pin in correct location. It could be a benefit to keep some from disassembling rifle in field and losing firing pin.... ect. My last deployment and others I had some spare cotter pins a few have been used to replace misplaced ones. One I got was for originality sake.
IMHO
A batch of those rings went out a few years back that was undersized and caused these kinds of issues. Most were sold through Brownells.
It was of that batch... yes I got burned on trusting them from one time. I talked with IG at his class briefly about my experience with them. about a year 1/2 ago.
BufordTJustice
11-30-14, 20:28
It was of that batch... yes I got burned on trusting them from one time. I talked with IG at his class briefly about my experience with them. about a year 1/2 ago.
Gotcha. I ordered my first from Grant. Then I ordered twice from Brownells and both were crap. Grants have always been in spec and rock solid.
The McFarland rings are a proven COTS upgrade. When jp submits his rings to testing at CRANE, then I'll believe they are an improvement over the McFarland......and not before then.
Operating smoothly in this instance means that the rings are already machined down to an assumed worn spec that allows less contact with the expansion chamber walls. This means that somebody has had to make an assumption as to what spec a worn-in gas ring SHOULD be. The problem is, what happens when ALL CARRIERS ARE NOT IDENTICAL...especially after chrome is applied?
Having an initial interference fit here is not only recommended, it's the ONLY way the ring can properly mate to each individual expansion chamber.
RE-visiting this, and hoping for more input from people who have tried the JP ring before placing an order (am ordering one of their rifle springs, anyway)
That said, a smooth carrier ID is king when it comes to gas-ring life. The carriers I use, I have yet to hear anyone replacing rings on, even well past the 30K round mark.
I distinctly remember reading, I believe it was here, that Pat Rogers had run an AR through one of his classes with only one ring installed, lubed with vagisil. It was back some years ago, when people were still arguing that the AR platform was inherently unreliable.
If it will run with only one ring installed, why are any "upgrades" to the multiple ring system needed?
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A batch of those rings went out a few years back that was undersized and caused these kinds of issues. Most were sold through Brownells.
This explains a few things. I worked on a few malfunctioning rifles with "enhanced rings" and resolved the issues with standard gas rings. One rifle was brand new, never fired, and the owner installed a McFarland continuous ring before firing the first shot. He thought he bought a bad rifle, but it ran great when I installed the OEM gas rings.
That said, a smooth carrier ID is king when it comes to gas-ring life. The carriers I use, I have yet to hear anyone replacing rings on, even well past the 30K round mark.
Do any of you guys smooth out the ID of the BCG? If so what do you use and how do you do it? I've been pondering and kind of tinkering around with a spare BCG.
I tried a McFarland continuous ring once in a DD BCG. It went from functioning correctly to a minimum of 10 malfunctions per magazine. It lasted about three magazines before I threw it in the trash. Went back to standard rings and haven't had a problem since.
Do any of you guys smooth out the ID of the BCG? If so what do you use and how do you do it? I've been pondering and kind of tinkering around with a spare BCG.
No. The one's I use look like a mirror from the factory. Inserting fresh rings on a fresh bolt feels like sliding a wet glass cover over another wet glass cover in lab class back when I was in college Micro.
I tried a McFarland continuous ring once in a DD BCG. It went from functioning correctly to a minimum of 10 malfunctions per magazine. It lasted about three magazines before I threw it in the trash. Went back to standard rings and haven't had a problem since.
Did it "feel" right when you put it all together, or was it stiff, etc? As in, do you have a suspicion of why it failed, or did it suck for reasons unknown?
I distinctly remember reading, I believe it was here, that Pat Rogers had run an AR through one of his classes with only one ring installed, lubed with vagisil. It was back some years ago, when people were still arguing that the AR platform was inherently unreliable.
If it will run with only one ring installed, why are any "upgrades" to the multiple ring system needed?
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I understand that. Flipside is that my Dad bought an Olympic Arms rifle off a cop one time. It had countless rounds through it, and the bolt looked to me like no less than 3-4K rounds, judging by the wear on the face. I used that rifle for testing all sorts of crazy ammo from weak .223 to Browntip 5.56. It never missed a beat. Yet, I would not espouse that as a "duty weapon", nor would Pat Rogers lube his 1 gas-ring with vagasil and throw it in his cruiser for a call-out, either. Better is indeed...better.
The question remains though...IS the JP mousetrap a better one? I know going to Sprinco springs have solved multiple issues in my weapons. I am curious if the JP has an effect that is positive, as well. I like to try things that don't look terrible on the surface, and this doesn't.
No. The one's I use look like a mirror from the factory. Inserting fresh rings on a fresh bolt feels like sliding a wet glass cover over another wet glass cover in lab class back when I was in college Micro.
I hated Micro.......but I digress. Mine are all smooth as well but I noticed in one of my spare BCGs(CMT) the bolt binds just a tad right where it enters the 2xgas ports. I took a set of Kobalt diamond files and smoothed out the gas ports a tad. It seems to have smoothed it out. I will run a couple hundred rounds and keep an eye on it. It was brand new. It was just probably a small burr of some sort. I just had never encountered it before.
I hated Micro.......but I digress. Mine are all smooth as well but I noticed in one of my spare BCGs(CMT) the bolt binds just a tad right where it enters the 2xgas ports. I took a set of Kobalt diamond files and smoothed out the gas ports a tad. It seems to have smoothed it out. I will run a couple hundred rounds and keep an eye on it. It was brand new. It was just probably a small burr of some sort. I just had never encountered it before.
Had to do BIO320, I believe, which was my MICRO class. Yes, I hated it, as well. My instructor for that class had the distinction of being so obnoxious that she was thrown out of a bar before. On Bourbon St. During Mardi Gras.
I use QPQ carriers, and they are polished inside.
Well, my JP tuned spring and JP gas ring arrives tomorrow. I am curious to see how/if it alters function in any way.
Did it "feel" right when you put it all together, or was it stiff, etc? As in, do you have a suspicion of why it failed, or did it suck for reasons unknown?
Nothing in particular seemed "wrong" with it. It just made the bolt REALLY tight inside the carrier. When sliding the bolt in and out, I didn't notice any areas where it felt like it was catching on anything. It was consistently tight throughout the complete range of movement. I pulled it and double checked to make sure it was seated properly and it was. It seems to me that it was just too big across the diameter.
My JP gas rings arrived today, and I installed one. It fit smoothly into both the Azimuth QPQ BCG, and the Daniel Defense chrome-lined mil-spec carrier I have. It passed the "carrier upside down, bolt (stripped of cam-pin, fp, etc.) not falling out" test. It felt to insert into either carrier with roughly 1/2 the friction as the DDM4 bolt (with "broken in" gas rings) did, in either carrier, and working it back and forth by hand produced the same sense of about half the force required.
I have every confidence that it will function just fine, but I have not shot with it yet. I will update if something different happens. For now, though, I am viewing it as a more robust solution to the mil-spec rings, as it cannot "tilt" and wear like individual rings can.
To that end, I bought some new Colt gas-rings (mil-spec), and mic'ed them at the edge of where the "tear-drop" at the gap in the ring ends (for common measure point) along with the gas-rings I had installed on my Azimuth carrier since it was new, some 2500ish rounds ago (1500 of which were with Wolf, and almost all suppressed, and with no additional lube in that 1500 rounds...). The gas rings all mic'ed an IDENTICAL 0.023" thickness at this point. New Colt (only measured 1), and used Azimuth (all 3). Thus I cannot honestly say my gas-rings have worn a single bit.
Thus one might conclude the JP ring is possibly as solution in search of a problem, at least in my application. That being said, if you get after your bolt tail with a wire brush or some nonsense, I can see a benefit.
The mil-spec rings (Colt, new) mic'ed 0.514" un-compressed, across their width. The JP ring, 0.502". The used Azimuth rings, 0.506", 0.507", and 0.508", respectively.
It would appear that, as best I can tell, the mil-spec gas rings do "take a set" after time. This may be how they "break in" nearly as much as their being polished by use, in retrospect.
The rifle functioned identical with the JP ring as with milspec rings. I did note, after the bcg was filthy though, less force required for it to return to battery and to articulate the bolt in and out with the bcg out of the gun.
I understand that. Flipside is that my Dad bought an Olympic Arms rifle off a cop one time. It had countless rounds through it, and the bolt looked to me like no less than 3-4K rounds, judging by the wear on the face. I used that rifle for testing all sorts of crazy ammo from weak .223 to Browntip 5.56. It never missed a beat. Yet, I would not espouse that as a "duty weapon", nor would Pat Rogers lube his 1 gas-ring with vagasil and throw it in his cruiser for a call-out, either. Better is indeed...better.
The question remains though...IS the JP mousetrap a better one? I know going to Sprinco springs have solved multiple issues in my weapons. I am curious if the JP has an effect that is positive, as well. I like to try things that don't look terrible on the surface, and this doesn't.
I don't think pat was trying to espoused such a thing either. As I read it, he was simply proving that the system would run, even with some things not nearly ideal.
At the time, there was still a lot of argument about the Rings lining up and making the rifle not work, and about the magical lube that was needed to make it run.
Guess you could say he was doing some mythbusting.
Really, they just need to be snug enough for not too much gas to get by in the bcg bore.
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Discovered that my gas rings are worn out while doing some maintenance...lost count so I wouldn't be surprised if I've shot over 1K already....is that typical btw?
http://i.imgur.com/Zc8wYmx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TP2dLCg.jpg
This the original rings from a BCM I bought thru Grant (G&R Tac)...in panic, bought some CMMG Bolt Parts Kit...for the meantime.
I'll probably get back with Grant or straight from BCM for replacement.
That is not typical wear Ledanek. 1,000 is very few rounds for that much wear on the gas rings.
That is not typical wear Ledanek. 1,000 is very few rounds for that much wear on the gas rings.
+1
This is also why I like the JP. It keeps the rings from tilting during cycling, which prevents them wearing like one sharpens a knife on the sides.
That is not typical wear Ledanek. 1,000 is very few rounds for that much wear on the gas rings.
+1
This is also why I like the JP. It keeps the rings from tilting during cycling, which prevents them wearing like one sharpens a knife on the sides.
Thanks guys. Please recommend where to get these JP gas rings...Google only directs me to Primary Arms for some reason.
Thanks guys. Please recommend where to get these JP gas rings...Google only directs me to Primary Arms for some reason.
Before replacing the rings, I'd figure out what's wrong with the rifle.
http://www.tacticallink.com/JP-Rifles-Enhanced-Gas-Ring-for-AR15.html
Before replacing the rings, I'd figure out what's wrong with the rifle.
Nothing wrong. Shoot just fine, no hangs nor malfunctions since last tac class and some indoor shooting. Been shooting mostly between American Eagle .223 or 5.56 whichever is on sale. Only thing added was a BE Meyers 240F if that makes any difference.
http://www.tacticallink.com/JP-Rifles-Enhanced-Gas-Ring-for-AR15.html
Thanks. Been eyeballing some stuff in that store since last yr.
Nothing wrong. Shoot just fine, no hangs nor malfunctions since last tac class and some indoor shooting. Been shooting mostly between American Eagle .223 or 5.56 whichever is on sale. Only thing added was a BE Meyers 240F if that makes any difference.
Thanks. Been eyeballing some stuff in that store since last yr.
The rings didn't just get jacked up wayyyy prematurely because everything is fine. Something is amiss.
The rings didn't just get jacked up wayyyy prematurely because everything is fine. Something is amiss.
any chance if....if I actually fired more than..um 3K would it make sense then? I'm reading more about gas rings being worn out and that standing bolt group test. I'll check back tomorrow.
Good night for now.
any chance if....if I actually fired more than..um 3K would it make sense then? I'm reading more about gas rings being worn out and that standing bolt group test. I'll check back tomorrow.
Good night for now.
No. I have a BCG with around 2500 rounds on it, and I could not tell the difference between those rings, and new Colt Mil-Spec rings with a micrometer, regarding wear/missing material. Almost all of that was suppressed, and 2/3 of it was with Wolf. Maybe if you have a 7.5 pistol...
That's interecting to know.
I have a 16" BCM midlength, almost like this.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=16-LW-MID
Counted 4 Tac carbine classes, assumption that would total 2K (500/per class) only place I do somewhat rapid firing...indoor shooting avg 100-200 rounds per visit...did about every 4 months...no rapid firing
That's interecting to know.
I have a 16" BCM midlength, almost like this.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=16-LW-MID
Counted 4 Tac carbine classes, assumption that would total 2K (500/per class) only place I do somewhat rapid firing...indoor shooting avg 100-200 rounds per visit...did about every 4 months...no rapid firing
I just replaced the rings on one of my bolts. Almost exact same amount of wear and round count as you have shown. This was an BCM bolt in a 11.5" BCM upper.
Got about 5k out of my noveske, rings flawless. Got around 2500 on my ddm4 bcg, and 2500 on the azimuth. Mag dumps, suppressed, etc. All gas rings looked great. I think something is amiss. Changing rings during a class when you start with new rings....that's bunk. And many classes are around 2k.
I'm out of ideas, but, will keep researching.
Any other parts that wore out about the same?
Thanks for your help guys.
I'm out of ideas, but, will keep researching.
Any other parts that wore out about the same?
Thanks for your help guys.
I've never worn any parts out honestly.
Well, since the Rings interact with the carrier bore, how does it look?
The hard chrome is much harder than the Rings, did a rough spot in the bore get missed?
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I'm out of ideas, but, will keep researching.
Any other parts that wore out about the same?
Thanks for your help guys.
What are you using for lubricant and how often do you apply it?
I picked up a Ballistic Advantage .308 BCG for a build. The gas rings are such that the bolt is extremely difficult to move in and out of the carrier. Swapping to another maker's gas rings doesn't change that.
Maybe it will break in and be smooth, but it is so tight that I am afraid it will chew up the inside of the carrier and possibly the cam pin/cam hole. Perhaps I'm OCD, but I've never seen a BCG this tight.
I'm looking to find some gas rings that arent this absurdly tight in the carrier.
Anyone have any ideas or has similar experiences?
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