View Full Version : Single Stage Dies
My girlfriend bought me a Rockchucker Master Kit for my first press. I wanted a 550b, but she didn't know and I won't fault her for giving me a nice gift.
What carbide pistol dies does everyone use? I want to start reloading subsonic 9mm first.
If it makes any difference, I plan on still acquiring a 550b eventually.
Linkscoach
11-20-14, 18:06
Dillon carbide dies work nicely.
You've used the three piece set in a single stage before?
Linkscoach
11-20-14, 20:08
Admittedly the press and dies I used were pretty old and belonged to a relative but yes. The only Dillon dies I'm pretty sure won't fit are the square deal dies.
How are you guys getting a case belling on a single stage? I agree that the carbide sizing die is much more user friendly.
I'm used to loading pistol on the 550b where you get a case bell at stage 2 when you hit the powder station. I'm wondering how you do this on a single stage...
How are you guys getting a case belling on a single stage? I agree that the carbide sizing die is much more user friendly.
I'm used to loading pistol on the 550b where you get a case bell at stage 2 when you hit the powder station. I'm wondering how you do this on a single stage...
My buddy has loaded probably 20k .40 on a Lee Classic(I think he's either mentally retarded or he is into S&M and lets his wife beat him with a riding crop in the bedroom while being handcuffed to the bed) and he doesnt bell the cases at all because, like you said, there isnt really a way to do it(there probably is a special belling die out there, my buddy dont got one though I know that). On a single stage I dont think its necessarily necessary as one of the "reasons" for the bell is to hold the bullet just slightly as the press is advancing, the other is for easier bullet seating. Ive shot his re-loads and never noticed an accuracy issue that might come from jacket shaving. Ive also hammered some of his rounds apart when helping him setup the press and never noticed any jacket shaving either.
Interesting...
bundoc.... whatever you do. Don't get a die that seats and crimps in a single step. People are always starting trouble shoot threads about those things. Separate the steps.
How are you guys getting a case belling on a single stage? I agree that the carbide sizing die is much more user friendly.
I'm used to loading pistol on the 550b where you get a case bell at stage 2 when you hit the powder station. I'm wondering how you do this on a single stage...
All of the Hornady pistol dies I've ever bought have a die that does nothing but bell the case mouth. Die 1 sizes, die 2 bells, and die 3 seats/crimps. I've always belled my pistol brass, but I've never tried not belling it. On my Hornady LNL AP, the case is belled while being given powder.
bundoc.... whatever you do. Don't get a die that seats and crimps in a single step. People are always starting trouble shoot threads about those things. Separate the steps.
This 100%. Ive tried to help buddies setup their seat/crimp die and its always a balancing act. Some people claim they can get them to work great, ive never had such luck. Get your seating depth set and by the time you have enough crimp your seating depth changes.
BUT without belling the case is it even necessary to crimp a pistol round(talking taper crimp here, not a roll crimp for some heavy 357 or 44 mag loads) since with pistol the "crimp" is really to remove the belling, you dont really ever want to go past the SAAMI OD(or pre belled size) of the case, maybe .001 smaller, but not much else.
Good point. You may not even need the crimp die. I've just never ran pistol on anything other than a Dillon.
Also... bundoc... you might consider the LNL conversion kit that allows you quick change on your dies. It makes a die change a 1 second affair with no change in setting.
I run the LNL conversion on my Big Boss 2, and have all my single stage dies in Hornady bushings.
Good point. You may not even need the crimp die. I've just never ran pistol on anything other than a Dillon.
Also... bundoc... you might consider the LNL conversion kit that allows you quick change on your dies. It makes a die change a 1 second affair with no change in setting.
I run the LNL conversion on my Big Boss 2, and have all my single stage dies in Hornady bushings.
Sounds good, I'll place my order later today. Looks like I'll make it work without hurting her feelings and asking her to exchange it.
Like I said before.. .you can't take my single stage away. It's over half of my press time.
Didn't realize what the LNL conversion kit was. That thing looks perfect, I was dreading the setup every time I had to switch dies.
Looks like this press will serve me well. Now I just need to figure out what die set I'm going to get. Thanks everyone.
Admittedly the press and dies I used were pretty old and belonged to a relative but yes. The only Dillon dies I'm pretty sure won't fit are the square deal dies.
That is correct. Square Deal B dies are unique; you can't use regular dies with SDB nor can you use SDB dies in other presses. When I get everything set up I can attempt to post photos to clarify this.
Now I just need to figure out what die set I'm going to get.
For pistol IMO you cant go wrong no matter what way you go, just make sure to get a 3 die set which has the separate seating and crimp die. Dillon, Hornady, RCBS and I think Lee has one too, and probably a few other companies. Pistol is so much more forgiving than rifle as far as die's go. If you were asking about rifle dies my answer would be Forster, but pistol, eh, you can go anyway you want I personally think. I prefer carbide dies for pistol, personal choice.
Also what are you shooting and going to load for? If Glock you might look into an undersize sizing die like the Lee U-Die or EGW(made by Lee). Sizes all the way to the base where most dies dont size down that far. I dont know if I would use one for most guns, but if I was loading exclusively Glock I would probably run one.
I don't own any Glocks, but thanks. In that case, I'll go with whatever set I find the cheapest.
I don't own any Glocks, but thanks. In that case, I'll go with whatever set I find the cheapest.
I dont know if I would say "get whatever is cheapest", but pistol dies do tend to all be pretty much sorted out and lets be honest, most people arent trying to reload .5 MOA pistol ammo, they are trying to plink or practice for cheaper than "cheap" factory ammo.
Like I said, I prefer carbide for pistol which wont be the cheapest. Dillon dies have a little bit of a flared throat to help alignment when running a progressive. They also arent terrible expensive at $64 for the 3 die set that are a known high quality die.
The Lee Precision 9-mm Carbide 4-Die Set Luger on Amazon for $41.99 is the one I was going to purchase.
It has a separate seat and crimp die. I was under the impression that the Dillon didn't have an individual seat and crimp die.
The Lee Precision 9-mm Carbide 4-Die Set Luger on Amazon for $41.99 is the one I was going to purchase.
It has a separate seat and crimp die. I was under the impression that the Dillon didn't have an individual seat and crimp die.
The Dillon DOES seat and crimp in 2 different dies. Dillon comes with full length size/deprime, seating, crimp. The dillon die set does NOT come with a powder through die as that is a separate setup on their machines.
I dont see anything wrong with that die setup personally.
I was going off the recommendation from you and mark that stated not to use a seat/crimp die. That's why I was looking for a set that had them separately.
I was going off the recommendation from you and mark that stated not to use a seat/crimp die. That's why I was looking for a set that had them separately.
Which every body makes. Just dont get a 2 die set, which are generally seating/crimping in one die.
Lee, RCBS, Dillon, Hornady all make "3 die" sets with separate seating and crimp.
If the Lee you posted is in your budget, by all means run em. Lee aint nothing fancy, but I rarely read anything wrong with them and I run their FCD in multiple calibers and their universal de-capping die in 3 or 4 tool heads.
For pistol IMO you cant go wrong no matter what way you go, just make sure to get a 3 die set which has the separate seating and crimp die. Dillon, Hornady, RCBS and I think Lee has one too, and probably a few other companies. Pistol is so much more forgiving than rifle as far as die's go. If you were asking about rifle dies my answer would be Forster, but pistol, eh, you can go anyway you want I personally think. I prefer carbide dies for pistol, personal choice.
Also what are you shooting and going to load for? If Glock you might look into an undersize sizing die like the Lee U-Die or EGW(made by Lee). Sizes all the way to the base where most dies dont size down that far. I dont know if I would use one for most guns, but if I was loading exclusively Glock I would probably run one.
Could you explain how a undersized sizing die improves loading for Glock barrels?
Could you explain how a undersized sizing die improves loading for Glock barrels?
The U-Die is designed to size down the case further. I dont have any pics to show this, but a normal size die generally doesnt size the bottom say .150 or so of the case(I dont have any measurements, but you can see where the size die stops on normal dies), the U-Die is supposed to size 100% of the case(or damn near). These are also known as "bulge busters" where they will take out the "glock bulge" that the .40's tend to produce due to the generous feed ramps present in Glock's(and again, the .40 in particular). 9mm, not so much an issue, much more prevalent in the .40. I load a bit of 9mm brass shot through Glocks(between my dad and I we run 4), I dont run U-Dies(I run all Dillon pistol dies), I havent had any issues. I dont load any .40, but everything I read says Glock .40 brass can benefit from the U-Die.
Like I said, if I was loading a lot of Glock brass, especially 40, I would probably run one.
Just reread the description on Dillon 3 die set. That's what I'm going to purchase.
That was my original intention since I plan on getting a 550b later down the road.
rjcobs,
I load 9mm for two Glocks exclusively so your post caught my eye. Thanks for the info
rjcobs,
I load 9mm for two Glocks exclusively so your post caught my eye. Thanks for the info
I would say if your two Glocks dont bulge the brass I wouldnt go run out and buy a new sizing die. If you have no problems now, my guess is you never will. I load for 5 Glocks(2 19's and 2 26's, plus my room mate uses my equipment for his 26) and we have zero issues with bulged brass. The only reason I have ever contemplated a U-Die is initial brass prep from all the garbage range brass I buy for dirt cheap. Likely it would only ever get one pass through that die in its life with me.
The bulge is much more prevalent on the .40 Glocks and those can really benefit from the U-die. The 40 feed ramp is quite a bit wider and cuts into the chamber deeper to aid in reliable feeding of the flat point 40. 9mm is largely NOT flat point, even JHP ammo has more curve in the ogive than 40 does, so the feed ramp can be quite a bit smaller and not cut into the chamber as much which leads to less bulged brass.
I found out that I do need to bell the cases when using plated bullets (Berry's).
If I don't, it will shave the bullets when seating. Like it has been mentioned, you don't need this die on a 550 because it bells the case on the powder station.
I found out that I do need to bell the cases when using plated bullets (Berry's).
If I don't, it will shave the bullets when seating. Like it has been mentioned, you don't need this die on a 550 because it bells the case on the powder station.
Oh yeah, you have to bell the brass with flat base bullets. I don't even know how the bullet can begin to seat if you don't...?
My RCBS carbide 3-die set has a sizing die, neck expanding/belling die, and a seating/crimping die. I just started loading pistol and would definitely rather separate the crimping and seating steps as I do with rifle, but I really don't see a problem with it other than slightly crushing the bullet.
I'm using Dillon dies and just order a universal expanding die from Lee.
You can seat the bullet by forcing it, obviously this isn't ideal.
I'm using Dillon dies and just order a universal expanding die from Lee.
You can seat the bullet by forcing it, obviously this isn't ideal.
Well yeah, you can force a square peg into a round hole if you really wanted to. Maybe I'm sizing the brass to much, but before seating, the bullets sit on top of my sized brass. If it's not belled, and with enough force, the brass would get crushed before the bullet would seat. I am loading for reliability though... accuracy is secondary to me. So the oversized brass isn't a huge deal.
I do still need to do some final adjusting with my dies to get the perfect setup.
MikeDawg46L
01-14-15, 11:23
Which every body makes. Just dont get a 2 die set, which are generally seating/crimping in one die.
Lee, RCBS, Dillon, Hornady all make "3 die" sets with separate seating and crimp.
If the Lee you posted is in your budget, by all means run em. Lee aint nothing fancy, but I rarely read anything wrong with them and I run their FCD in multiple calibers and their universal de-capping die in 3 or 4 tool heads.
I use Hornady dies for my 9mm, and they come with decap/resize, bell, and seater/crimp. The crimping function is done while seating. I only use a very light crimp and have never had any issues with it.
Are there some new dies out that I'm not aware of? Mine are about 3 or 4 years old.
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