View Full Version : So you're on an elevator and you see a guy beating up his girl...
Eurodriver
11-22-14, 21:57
what do you do?
http://www.bored.com/videos/shocking-bystander-reactions-domestic-abuse-experiment/
How sad.
That is pretty sad to say the least. They didn't even bother to use their cameras to be good witnesses... Just kidding.
I'd give someone with kids or dependents in tow some leeway in their reaction, but the rest should have atleast threatened to call the cops, called the cops or been more insistent that the dude take his hands off the girl. I know domestics can be a bitch to untangle and can turn against you jiffy quick, but I'm not sure I could just stand by surfing on my phone.
I'd ask for his autograph, more than likely he's somebody famous.
Non famous people generally know they can't get away with a lot of things.
ETA: Interesting that the only person with the balls to do something was a female. I wonder if this isn't a passive Euro thing. I tend to think that the same people who were saying terrible things like "Good Morning" to the 10 hours in NY video girl would probably straighten this guy out in 10 seconds.
Moose-Knuckle
11-23-14, 02:25
I would ask them what the safe word is . . .
My first CCW certification class instructor gave a scenario. You are walking down the street and you hear a woman screaming, you run and see a naked woman tied to a pole with a man standing near that appears to be hurting her. You pull out your CCW and shoot the bad guy thus saving the damsel in distress. As you go to free the woman from the pole and take the gag out of her mouth she starts screaming at you "Why did you shoot my husband?!" (bdsm/exhibitionist/etc). You just never know what you are walking into, in this day in age its best to call in the pros.
Some kids with a video camera in Australia were pranking people at ATMs, they would simulate a robbery until a bystander stepped in and broke the nose of the "bad guy". Sometimes the desired reaction is not the one you get lol . . .
Eurodriver
11-23-14, 09:08
I know domestics can be a bitch to untangle and can turn against you jiffy quick, but I'm not sure I could just stand by surfing on my phone.
For sure, but I can't imagine I'd let a dude rough up a girl next to me in an elevator like that.
I've heard too many stories from buddies of mine who'd be carting off the husband to jail, only to have the bloody wife jump out of the ambulance to bum-rush the cops to let the husband go. I used to look at women in abusive relationships as idiots who deserve what they get for staying.
It is, however, much more dynamic than that...
I'm with you...I'm far from perfect, but I would have got involved...how far would have depended on him.
For sure, but I can't imagine I'd let a dude rough up a girl next to me in an elevator like that.
I've heard too many stories from buddies of mine who'd be carting off the husband to jail, only to have the bloody wife jump out of the ambulance to bum-rush the cops to let the husband go. I used to look at women in abusive relationships as idiots who deserve what they get for staying.
It is, however, much more dynamic than that...
Let's add some depth and dimension to this thread. As you post what you would do, would you consider adding pertinent information about...
your training and/or experience in intervention in interpersonal conflict, especially domestic/family/intimate partner conflict.
your training and/or experience in threat assessment, pre-assault indicators, behavioral science, victimology, etc.
your training and/or experience in close quarter combatives, esp those in confined space (vehicles, elevators, etc.
Very dangerous to jump in the middle of a situation like that. If it were real, there obviously nothing that's going to stop the person from turning on you... and even possibly the dingy broad too.
Voodoo_Man
11-23-14, 14:41
There is a reason they dont do this in the US. The prankers will eventually be shot.
I'm generally one of those guys who carries a gun for my family and myself's self defense and won't otherwise get involved - I'm not LEO.
The elevator scenario isn't one where one has to go to guns, but I could see myself intervening with something along the lines of stating "leave the girl alone" and if he got aggressive toward me, I'd have to pound him into acceptable behavior...
The girl looked to weigh in around 85 lbs or less.
I wouldn't be able to watch that kind of bullying without stepping up.
Let's add some depth and dimension to this thread. As you post what you would do, would you consider adding pertinent information about...
your training and/or experience in intervention in interpersonal conflict, especially domestic/family/intimate partner conflict.
your training and/or experience in threat assessment, pre-assault indicators, behavioral science, victimology, etc.
your training and/or experience in close quarter combatives, esp those in confined space (vehicles, elevators, etc.
Sure. Just the way my father raised me...I am more than happy to mind my business, but again, a bully brings out the stupid in me...not here to argue what is smart and what is not. I am sure a 20 year LEO would surpass my skills at conflict resolution without any fistacuff.:)
I do have a few decades in martial arts, in both sport and traditional training, and yes I realize that I could be bringing all that training to a gunfight and quickly be the loser. I would hope for wisdom if faced with that situation.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-23-14, 16:58
You are not going to fix a lifetime of bad decisions by a woman like that on a 30 second ride on an elevator.
Not saying that I wouldn't say something to him.
Not saying that I wouldn't mind being the instant manifestation of Karma.
That little social experiment would go horribly wrong for that guy in my area. He wouldn't even know what had hit him.
Eurodriver
11-23-14, 17:04
No one is trying to fix the girl, I don't think. Let's be real though - if you were walking through an office building and saw a grown man physically molesting a 6 year old girl...does that change your answer? To a point, it could be a similar situation (Dad checking his daughter's private areas for a bug bite/rash/etc) but how many grown ass men on M4C are going to let some dude feel up a little girl and just walk on by? I hope that answer is zero.
Let's add some depth and dimension to this thread. As you post what you would do, would you consider adding pertinent information about...
your training and/or experience in intervention in interpersonal conflict, especially domestic/family/intimate partner conflict.
your training and/or experience in threat assessment, pre-assault indicators, behavioral science, victimology, etc.
your training and/or experience in close quarter combatives, esp those in confined space (vehicles, elevators, etc.
The first two? Zero. The 3rd? Enough to deal with that guy.
I get what you're saying, but doesn't there become a point where a good guy just has to do something? I don't mean shooting the guy, beating his ass, or anything in particular. But regardless of your skill level how many people can just sit an text while a dude roughs up his girl 3 feet away from you?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-23-14, 17:45
If you aren't trying to fix the girl, why intervene? You are just delaying it by 10 minutes. It's the adult relationship that makes any action by you futile. Does she not realize that boyfriends shouldn't do that and your comment will change her life? It's not like he is beating her senseless and there is a chance of serious injury or her life is at risk- that I'd have no problems intervening in- the law here in CO actually covers that pretty well.
In all likelihood I'd say something like "Hey, Ike Turner, how about taking your rings off first?" If he wants to direct his physical vigor at me then, I'm fine with that.
Inter-Personal Conflict Intervention Experience: Large Irish-Catholic-Alcoholic Family Full of Dumbasses, so yes; a bit.
Averageman
11-24-14, 06:04
I think at the point he smacks her head on the wall or punches her I would load my hand with my flashlight and break his jaw with a sucker punch.
Lots of Women love the drama and all the fun that goes along with dating a "Bad Boy", I don't care what they do in the privacy of their home, but having to ride in an elevator full of that crap would piss me off.
Oh, and then I would exit the elevator and take the stairs and leave the building.
Crow Hunter
11-24-14, 08:02
Since I am usually carrying a gun while out in public. I would not intervene.
I would call the police and be a good witness, but I am not going to potentially escalate a domestic violence incident into a self defense killing that could be construed as a vigilante manslaughter case. I am an engineer and not a police officer and I haven't been trained as a police officer or have the authority and liability protection that a police officer has.
If the dude attacks me while I am calling 911 on my phone, I will defend myself but otherwise, as a CCW person, I have to hold myself to a higher standard and avoid escalation if at all humanly possible.
Besides, I have watched domestics on COPS enough to know that my intervening would probably get both of them to attack me instead.;)
Travelingchild
11-24-14, 08:51
...
Besides, I have watched domestics on COPS enough to know that my intervening would probably get both of them to attack me instead.;)
So true, from a first hand perspective, I watched hotel security walk a couple outside a major venue (huge Halloween party), upon getting outside the hotel the dude saw a couple of Local PD who were people watching. Then he decided to get beligerent and start throwing punches.
Of course he end up face down on sidewalk getting cuffed, Then GF JUMPS on the Back of handcuffing cop, (screaming don't hurt him!) She ends up face face down next to him getting cuffed.
I was a hotel bellman driving the courtesy drunk shuttle... It was a very entertaining evening....
That little social experiment would go horribly wrong for that guy in my area. He wouldn't even know what had hit him.
My thoughts exactly. If your perception was that the threat to the victim justified your intervention, you should be good to go with a Grand Jury.
People who think this sort of activity is amusing and risk free, need a wake up call.
People who think this sort of activity is amusing and risk free, need a wake up call.
I agree. This social experimentation is stupid. Also... remember that Chucky movie stunt where the character broke out of the movie poster signs out on the streets by bus stops and such? I'd have laughed my ass of had someone put a few rounds into that idiot's chest.
Let's add some depth and dimension to this thread. As you post what you would do, would you consider adding pertinent information about...
your training and/or experience in intervention in interpersonal conflict, especially domestic/family/intimate partner conflict.
your training and/or experience in threat assessment, pre-assault indicators, behavioral science, victimology, etc.
your training and/or experience in close quarter combatives, esp those in confined space (vehicles, elevators, etc.
I'm more schooled in controlled violence than conflict resolution. But regardless of any specialization I do or do not have, some things I'm just not going to leave alone. This is of course time, place and personal risk dependent.
Speaking of pranksters getting shot, fun starts at about 2:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3gy8n3H8UM#t=146
Since I am usually carrying a gun while out in public. I would not intervene.
I would call the police and be a good witness, but I am not going to potentially escalate a domestic violence incident into a self defense killing that could be construed as a vigilante manslaughter case. I am an engineer and not a police officer and I haven't been trained as a police officer or have the authority and liability protection that a police officer has.
If the dude attacks me while I am calling 911 on my phone, I will defend myself but otherwise, as a CCW person, I have to hold myself to a higher standard and avoid escalation if at all humanly possible.
Besides, I have watched domestics on COPS enough to know that my intervening would probably get both of them to attack me instead.;)
I agree. My responsibility is to protect only myself and my family. No complete strangers meet those criteria. I was a soldier for twenty years; that's enough of protecting strangers for me for a lifetime.
Whiskey_Bravo
11-24-14, 14:14
lol, that damn near ended badly for them.
lol, that damn near ended badly for them.
I have to wonder if that guy was legally carrying, given his AO, and if perhaps the only reason he didn't open up on him/them was due to the fact that he was not.
Crow Hunter
11-24-14, 15:01
Question for those who have responded that they would intervene.
Assuming you ARE carrying your sidearm at the time and you intervene.
You clock the guy, grab his arm, shove him, etc. He then redirects his anger towards you.
For whatever reason, the situation turns bad for you (ie he is a nationally ranked UFC fighter and a triple black belt to your double black belt;)) and during the struggle he figures out you have a gun. He says: "I am going to kill you MF!"
What do you do?
Do you use your weapon?
Do you hope he doesn't take the weapon away from you and use it on you and/or his SO?
Do you hope the SO doesn't join in and both of them take out their anger on you?
What if the guy happens to be a minority and you aren't?
Have you thought about the potential legal and moral implications and repercussions for you escalating the encounter?
I find it interesting how many people probably thought that George Zimmerman was an idiot for following Trayvon Martin (I did, as I thought most of MC.net did as well) would physically intervene in this type of a situation.
wildcard600
11-24-14, 15:26
Stay out of it.
Maybe 40-50 years ago i would be saying something different but not in todays world/societal/political/judicial environment.
Crow Hunter nailed it. Even if you're one bad ass operator who intervenes and beats down the bad ass wannabe. There is no guarantee that the witnesses will stand by you on your behalf once law enforcement arrives. Sheet, if this happened in Portland, OR, you can probably count on those witnesses accusing you of being overly aggressive and being the cause of the violence to begin with.
My course of action, get the hell out of there ASAP and call in the cavalry. Be a good witness, and let the pro's do what they do best.
take out camera start to record and call 911
dont intervene if he decides to come at me its on camera then and I will defend myself and the operator will hear what is going on
saw another video of people doing things like this and a guy got beat down who was the actor !!! this kinda experiment is stupid and dangerous ironic its over in Europe where things are supposed to be so much better than USA and the people there are better than anyone in the world they think and the left thinks :)
kinda wonder if you did that in some other parts of the USA how it would turn out ? but again experiments like this are bad news and if someone acted they should sue the film crew and actors !
Harsh words and a little pushing and shoving, like what was depicted in the video, is not worth escalating. She's a moron for staying with the dude.
Now if he were actually beating the woman, as the thread title suggested, then intervention would be appropriate and necessary. There are a million variables to consider before deciding what I would do, but I wouldn't stand and watch a woman getting physically hurt.
You can't fix the girl and that is t what anyone intervening would or should be trying to do. Same goes for any other crime of violence. You're not trying to fox anything aside from stopping an act of violence. Whether it's for 10 years or 10 seconds it doesn't matter. There is no need to get violent. A simple call the cops and make it know that you're doing it. Film his attack as evidence. If he escalates or redirects toward you then you deal as needed. I always try to think of it as what would I want someone else to do if that was my wife, daughter ... in that situation. Would I want people to watch and leave her there? I know I sure as shit wouldn't.
Protect my own wife and child first and get them to safety. But I could not stand idly by or walk away.
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