Second Range Trip with the Noveske

[FourT6and2]

This thing is so much fun! I've only ever shot pistols before and this was my second time shooting a rifle. I think I did a lot better, thanks to a lot of the tips I found on this forum and a few others.

Noveske Gen III
16" CHF barrel
Lake City/Federal XM193 55gr. 5.56
Hand guard was propped up on some pieces of wood covered in carpeting
Iron sights

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/313/0/a/group_shot_by_haftelm-d85wv6l.jpg


FIRST GROUP OF THE DAY (50 yards)
Each square is 1/2" , I believe
Photo taken through the spotting scope, so sorry if it's all blurry

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/328/d/a/group_1_by_haftelm-d87iw4p.jpg


SECOND GROUP (50 yards)

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/328/a/6/group_4_by_haftelm-d87iw30.jpg


BEST GROUP (50 yards)
I think this is the best I've shot.
Three shots. Red bullseye is a little larger than 1 MOA (EDIT: I mean 1", not MOA).

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/328/7/c/group_2_by_haftelm-d87iw4g.jpg


Question about these two groups.
I've found that this happens a lot for me.
I'll get a nice tight group. But there's always one that lands out to the right of the group. Why does this happen?
These two groups show this. Am I flinching? Or something with barrel heat? Or what?
Again, 50 yards. I think 5 shot groups.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/328/1/9/group_3_by_haftelm-d87iw3b.jpg


Here's a bunch of shots I did without really paying attention to what I was doing. Just to see what would happen if I shot faster without concentrating really hard:

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/328/0/d/fast_group_by_haftelm-d87iw2e.jpg


100 YARD TARGETS:
This was a lot harder. Definitely got better at it though. Again, red bullseye is a little larger than 1 inch or so in diameter. So maybe the size of a quarter?

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/328/7/0/100_yard_by_haftelm-d87iw2i.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/328/9/9/group_5_by_haftelm-d87iw2v.jpg
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/328/f/f/100_yard_1_by_haftelm-d87iw2l.jpg

[markm]

I'll get a nice tight group. But there's always one that lands out to the right of the group. Why does this happen?
These two groups show this. Am I flinching? Or something with barrel heat? Or what?
Again, 50 yards. I think 5 shot groups.

Hard to say with XM193 which is far from "match" ammo, a relatively new rifle shooter, and the carpet block you're shooting off of.

I think you'll iron out those flyers with some nicer ammo and more time on the gun.

[FourT6and2]

Hard to say with XM193 which is far from "match" ammo, a relatively new rifle shooter, and the carpet block you're shooting off of.

I think you'll iron out those flyers with some nicer ammo and more time on the gun.

Hmm, well considering the other 4 shots all landed in a tight, 1 MOA group would better ammo really help? And it looks like both groups are identical in that the flyer is the same distance from the main group in each. Seems like something's going on there. Maybe I'm settling into the grip/cheek weld or something after the first shot? I don't actually know if the flyer is the first shot or not, though.

I do have some better ammo. But I'm waiting to get more range time before I start shooting the expensive stuff. I have some Hornady 75gr Superformance and some Black Hills 77gr. OTM.

[Bad_Karma]

Hmm, well considering the other 4 shots all landed in a tight, 1 MOA group would better ammo really help? And it looks like both groups are identical in that the flyer is the same distance from the main group in each. Seems like something's going on there. Maybe I'm settling into the grip/cheek weld or something after the first shot? I don't actually know if the flyer is the first shot or not, though.

I do have some better ammo. But I'm waiting to get more range time before I start shooting the expensive stuff. I have some Hornady 75gr Superformance and some Black Hills 77gr. OTM.

Better ammo, IMHO is the biggest single contributing factor to accuracy there is. A good barrel would probably be second, followed by a good trigger. OK, maybe barrel and ammo could be switched around. Haha Once your group sizes diminish, you'll notice a big difference between plinking ammo and match grade ammo. I've never shot very well with iron sights, my eyesight simply isn't good enough, and never has been. Keep in mind though that a magnified optic will help you see better, not necessarily shoot better, if you go that route.

If you're referring to your 50 yard group when you say "one MOA", then it's not. It would be at 100, but not at 50. As for ammo, I've had hit or miss (pun intended) luck with Hornady. Sometimes it seems fairly good, and sometimes not so much. Black Hills 77 grain SMK has been much more consistent for me.

The important thing though, is that you're getting out and doing it. Congrats on your Noveske, that's a beautiful rifle.

[markm]

Ammo is the most important piece of the puzzle. And XM193 is not target ammo. If it was, I wouldn't spend the ridiculous hours i do handloading ammo. But yes... it could be something you're doing too.

Ideally as you get more time on the gun, you'll have a spotter watch the string and tell you which round flew. But really... avoid getting too hung up on shooting groups. ;)

[skp]

Hmm, well considering the other 4 shots all landed in a tight, 1 MOA group would better ammo really help? And it looks like both groups are identical in that the flyer is the same distance from the main group in each. Seems like something's going on there. Maybe I'm settling into the grip/cheek weld or something after the first shot? I don't actually know if the flyer is the first shot or not, though.

I do have some better ammo. But I'm waiting to get more range time before I start shooting the expensive stuff. I have some Hornady 75gr Superformance and some Black Hills 77gr. OTM.

Newbie here too, and in fact I shot my rifle for the first time on the same day you did.
I only had a 25 yard indoors range to use, so that made things a bit easier, but anyway, a few times I caught myself yanking the rifle sideways right as I pulled the trigger. Anticipating the recoil maybe.. Those rounds typically hit a couple of inches off. Could you be doing something like that?

[FourT6and2]

Better ammo, IMHO is the biggest single contributing factor to accuracy there is. A good barrel would probably be second, followed by a good trigger. OK, maybe barrel and ammo could be switched around. Haha Once your group sizes diminish, you'll notice a big difference between plinking ammo and match grade ammo. I've never shot very well with iron sights, my eyesight simply isn't good enough, and never has been. Keep in mind though that a magnified optic will help you see better, not necessarily shoot better, if you go that route.

If you're referring to your 50 yard group when you say "one MOA", then it's not. It would be at 100, but not at 50. As for ammo, I've had hit or miss (pun intended) luck with Hornady. Sometimes it seems fairly good, and sometimes not so much. Black Hills 77 grain SMK has been much more consistent for me.

The important thing though, is that you're getting out and doing it. Congrats on your Noveske, that's a beautiful rifle.

I'm still confused on the MOA thing then. Each square on that target is 1/2". And I should have said the red bullseye is a little larger than 1", not MOA.

[Onyx Z]

I'm still confused on the MOA thing then. Each square on that target is 1/2".

1moa = 1.047". Don't ask me how it is calculated, math wasn't my strong subject. It's easier to simply use 1" per 100yd. So a 1/2" group @ 50yds, a 1" group @ 100yds, a 2" group @ 200yds, and so on, all equal 1moa.

[markm]

I'm still confused on the MOA thing then. Each square on that target is 1/2".

Then at 50 yards, that would indeed be approximately MOA squares.

[Bad_Karma]

I'm still confused on the MOA thing then. Each square on that target is 1/2". And I should have said the red bullseye is a little larger than 1", not MOA.

Sorry, I was referring to his target which he said was the best group he shot. It was a little over 1" at 50 yards, and since 50 yards is half of 100, that would be like a 2 MOA group, not a 1 MOA group.

[FourT6and2]

Sorry, I was referring to his target which he said was the best group he shot. It was a little over 1" at 50 yards, and since 50 yards is half of 100, that would be like a 2 MOA group, not a 1 MOA group.

Ah, I was referring to the size of the red bullseye for scale, not the group itself. But you're right, that group would be more like 2 MOA.

[Bad_Karma]

1moa = 1.047". Don't ask me how it is calculated, math wasn't my strong subject. It's easier to simply use 1" per 100yd. So a 1/2" group @ 50yds, a 1" group @ 100yds, a 2" group @ 200yds, and so on, all equal 1moa.

Oh, it's simple to calculate... 1 MOA equals 1 Nautical mile, at sea level, along the equator. :D Remember, MOA is a measurement of Latitude/ Longitude, for navigation. It's just super handy for us shooters, that by luck, it also equals very close to an inch at 100 yards. As a side note, I suck at math, and hence I hate Lat/ Long. MGRS/ UTM are WAY easier to use for mathematically challenged folks like myself.

[JS-Maine]

That's great improvement for sure. Looks like you are on the right path. Like others have said, don't expect consistent, nor tight accuracy from xm193. It's just not designed for that. On the other hand, you might be surprised with the accuracy you can get with some factory ammo. Just as an example, my 16" mid BCM BFH shoots nicely with both .223 PMC Bronze, and 100 rd .223 Federal value box(Walmart match).

Now, don't assume that is the case with your upper. I'm just suggesting that you experiment in the cheap 55gr plinker category until you find what performs best. You'll get plenty of practice while you are trying various brands, but until then, I wouldn't fire your 75-77gr ammo for accuracy until you've really nailed down your role in the equation with more expendable ammo.

[FourT6and2]

That's great improvement for sure. Looks like you are on the right path. Like others have said, don't expect consistent, nor tight accuracy from xm193. It's just not designed for that. On the other hand, you might be surprised with the accuracy you can get with some factory ammo. Just as an example, my 16" mid BCM BFH shoots nicely with both .223 PMC Bronze, and 100 rd .223 Federal value box(Walmart match).

Now, don't assume that is the case with your upper. I'm just suggesting that you experiment in the cheap 55gr plinker category until you find what performs best. You'll get plenty of practice while you are trying various brands, but until then, I wouldn't fire your 75-77gr ammo for accuracy until you've really nailed down your role in the equation with more expendable ammo.

Yup, that's what I was planning to do. :)

Any suggestions on good 55gr ammo? Should I stick with 556 or use 223 as well?

[JS-Maine]

Yup, that's what I was planning to do. :)

Any suggestions on good 55gr ammo? Should I stick with 556 or use 223 as well?

As long as it's factory brass I would give it a try. I stay away from steel. Federal American Eagle in .223/5.56, Federal Bulk .223, .223 PMC Bronze, Wolf Gold, Privi Partizan, etc. Buy a box of each and see what is best.

[FourT6and2]

As long as it's factory brass I would give it a try. I stay away from steel. Federal American Eagle in .223/5.56, Federal Bulk .223, .223 PMC Bronze, Wolf Gold, Privi Partizan, etc. Buy a box of each and see what is best.

I'll have to see what I can get my hands on. Only a handful of stores will ship ammo to me because I'm in San Francisco.

[JS-Maine]

Save your money on ammo and rent a Uhaul. I don't know how you do it.

:suicide:

[FourT6and2]

Save your money on ammo and rent a Uhaul. I don't know how you do it.

:suicide:

Well, not like I have a better option. I work in advertising. And there are only a few places in the country that serve as epicenters of this industry. NYC is THE place. But... good luck even owning a gun there, let alone being able to actually shoot it anywhere. SF is another major hub. So it's the lesser of two evils.

[ucrt]

.

IIRC, 360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in a degree. 1 MOA is 1/60 of a degree...about 1" @100yds...

.

[MegademiC]

For cheap, accurate ammo, the black box American Eagle 50gr varmint tip stuff is awesome(best accuracy/price ratio I've seen). It groups right in there with TAP out of my gun. I'd at least give it a try. Hornady VMAX rounds (or ZMAX-same bullet) is very accurate as well.

[LewP]

For non-match (but still pretty good performance) I like the CBC/Magtech 62gr stuff. Shoots a lot better than XM193 or green tip in my rifles, usually around 2 MOA.

The last time I shot the PPU 75gr it shot about 1.5 MOA @ 100 yards which seems like a small improvement over the CBC/Magtech 62gr. At 50 cents a round I rate the PPU 75gr a "meh". Your mileage (and group size) will vary.