View Full Version : Am I missing something with these uppers?
Looking for a 300blk upper and DSG is running a Black Friday deal that seems too good to be true. Am I overlooking something?
https://dsgarms.com/doorbuster-deals
Yep.. You are overlooking something.
steyrman13
11-24-14, 19:25
barrel steel is only 4140 for one thing
4140 and based upon what I know, there is virtually no way they are making money on these. I am pretty familiar with OEM pricing and I don't see how it is possible.
RVTMaverick
11-24-14, 21:51
4140 and based upon what I know, there is virtually no way they are making money on these. I am pretty familiar with OEM pricing and I don't see how it is possible.
So in other words, this looks like a great deal Yes/no?
Old prices are not bad never mind the sale!
It'll take north of $4,000 worth of ammo to wear out the 5.56 upper and $7,500+ to wear out the .300 BLK (not counting reloads). You can probably afford a couple hundred bucks for another 4150 barrel if/when you wear out those "cheap" 4140s. As some have stated, looks like a good deal; DSG isn't generally known for putting their name on crap kit, at least as far as I've personally observed. They ain't making much--if any—profit. YMMV.
Definitely hard to believe they are making any money on those, especially with the Seekins Keymod rail, BCG, CH, and adjustable gasblock all included. Seems like a killer deal
4140 chrome moly with a Nitride finish.
A BCG with MP testing, no mention of HP or whether it is staked correctly.
I suppose if you like that rail and everything is done legit, it could be a good deal. Not something I would purchase, but that's me.
So in other words, this looks like a great deal Yes/no?
Old prices are not bad never mind the sale!
I have seen plenty of barrels sold by DSG that had out of spec gas ports and barrels that were not dimpled for use with low profile gas blocks. The most recent ones were in my class in Ft. Worth, TX.
It'll take north of $4,000 worth of ammo to wear out the 5.56 upper and $7,500+ to wear out the .300 BLK (not counting reloads). You can probably afford a couple hundred bucks for another 4150 barrel if/when you wear out those "cheap" 4140s. As some have stated, looks like a good deal; DSG isn't generally known for putting their name on crap kit, at least as far as I've personally observed. They ain't making much--if any—profit. YMMV.
I have seen plenty of barrels sold by DSG that had out of spec gas ports and barrels that were not dimpled for use with low profile gas blocks. The most recent ones were in my class in Ft. Worth, TX.
Roughly how many barrels sold by DSG have you seen with issues? Who manufactured them? From your post I get the impression that there was more than one DSG sourced barrel issue in your recent class? This is interesting; thanks for providing more data so the OP can make an informed decision. I'm surprised by this.
Sent via mobile
4 barrels in the last class were all purchased from DSG. None of them were dimpled for use with a low pro gas block. Two of them had enlarged gas ports.
It doesn't matter who manufactured them. Companies like Midway USA, Brownells, and DSG purchase barrels, BCG's and other components in bulk and their only consideration is how much they pay for item xxxx and how much money they will make.
This is why they sell crap like AR Stoner BCG's, YHM barrels, uppers without M4 feedramps, etc...
Roughly how many barrels sold by DSG have you seen with issues? Who manufactured them? From your post I get the impression that there was more than one DSG sourced barrel issue in your recent class? This is interesting; thanks for providing more data so the OP can make an informed decision. I'm surprised by this.
Sent via mobile
4140 and 4150 have the same specs.
Tempted to try one of these, but I may just hold out for an AAC instead.
That doesn't make sense to me since a 4150 CMV barrel from the manufacturer costs more than a 4140 chrome moly barrel.
4140 and 4150 have the same specs.
That doesn't make sense to me since a 4150 CMV barrel from the manufacturer costs more than a 4140 chrome moly barrel.
Because they aren't the same, hence the price difference. There is slightly more Carbon in 4150, which translates to roughly a 3% cost delta as compared to 4140.
Note how 4140 has .40% carbon and 4150 has .50% carbon......the numbers in those designations have meaning, otherwise they would all be the same designation.
SAE 4140 and 4150 have carbon contents averaging 0.40 percent and 0.50 percent, respectively. SAE 4140 has a tensile strength of 655 megapascals and SAE 4150 a tensile strength of 729.5 megapascals. Manufacturers use SAE 4140 for making average size automotive parts, such as axle shafts, propeller shafts and steering knuckles. SAE 4150 is used primarily for gears and other parts requiring hardness, strength and toughness.
For what you are actually paying for, I would stand by the point that this is an excellent deal. As has been mentioned, you cannot purchase or build this for less, not even close percentage wise.
I personally have had zero issues with DSG Arms, be it BCG's, barrels etc or any product I have purchased from them. This is the first barrel being mentioned as a DSG special product that I am aware of. All other barrels are direct from and advertised as other manufacturers and DSG is not just a supplier but a major wholesaler and GSA in the business. I have never seen or heard of them taking "seconds" from any manufacturer. Within the past couple of years I have been using the DSG branded line of products and am more than pleased. Just ordered 10 of their inner / outer belts this past week. Ordered late afternoon their time, $5 flat rate USPS. Showed up before lunch the next day. For those that know where I am located that is unheard of.
In any case, I personally would not order one as I have numerous barrels and a few rails sitting right now and don't really care for keymod so much. But if you need a very good upper at a heck of a price, this IMO looks to be a heck of a good option. But if your barrel needs to be 4150 or MIL-B-11595E, well obviously this is not the set up for you, but that does not diminish the fact that it is a heck of a priced upper, for what you are purchasing.
I will also note that I have zero affiliation with DSG Arms. Just a very long time satisfied customer.
I'm really tempted by this deal, but I need to prioritize my spending this week. Though if I hadn't just picked up an AAC 300blk barrel, I think I'd have to get the 10" 300blk upper from DSG.
Willysjeep
11-26-14, 23:21
I have been strongly considering DSGs 10" 5.56 upper in this deal vs building another 11.5. For those that want 4150, Radical firearms has this deal plus 10% off right now but it doesn't have. CH or BCG. Anyone have experience with radical firearms? Website states barrel is 4150 mpi/hpt melonite finish 1:7 twist. Same 10" seekins rail as the DSG upper.
http://www.radicalfirearms.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RFUpperV1%2EMCSR%2E105M4&CartID=1
Wow, I have always wanted a short 300 BLK. This might be the one for me but I'd have to convince my wife that it's a must have since she is keeping the purse strings pretty tight these days.
snackgunner
11-27-14, 07:35
Awesome deal. One of the best, if not best deal for black Friday.
snackgunner
11-27-14, 07:43
I have seen plenty of barrels sold by DSG that had out of spec gas ports and barrels that were not dimpled for use with low profile gas blocks. The most recent ones were in my class in Ft. Worth, TX.
When has DSG ever sold barrels before? As Surf said, this is the first barrel that DSG has produced and sold that I'm aware of.
Perhaps IG was thinking of DS Arms?
My 300blk upper showed up today. More than happy with it so far.
You obviously didn't read my post. I said DSG Arms sold the barrels, I didn't say they were DSG branded barrels. I don't need to make up AR15 internet drama, there are probably one or two guys here that were in the class. My comment was in direct reference to JLBourne who stated DSG isn't known to put their names on crappy stuff.
This isn't a dig against DSG. I have purchased numerous items from DSG. The key is knowing what is a good buy, and what isn't.
When has DSG ever sold barrels before? As Surf said, this is the first barrel that DSG has produced and sold that I'm aware of.
SeriousStudent
11-28-14, 22:18
Just an FYI, I sat in on the last day of that class with IG in Fort Worth. I remember that discussion about barrels.
And I'm still in a tryptophan coma from all the turkey.
snackgunner
11-29-14, 00:20
Call it whatever you want. You clearly tried to make it sound like DSG produced the barrels you were bad talking. Its obvious that DSG is a threat to the company you are affiliated with and you wish this thread was never created. The uppers DSG are selling are a great buy, and those that have already received theirs have nothing but good things to say about them.
You obviously didn't read my post. I said DSG Arms sold the barrels, I didn't say they were DSG branded barrels. I don't need to make up AR15 internet drama, there are probably one or two guys here that were in the class. My comment was in direct reference to JLBourne who stated DSG isn't known to put their names on crappy stuff.
This isn't a dig against DSG. I have purchased numerous items from DSG. The key is knowing what is a good buy, and what isn't.
Call it whatever you want. You clearly tried to make it sound like DSG produced the barrels you were bad talking. Its obvious that DSG is a threat to the company you are affiliated with and you wish this thread was never created. The uppers DSG are selling are a great buy, and those that have already received theirs have nothing but good things to say about them.
Do you have any idea who you are talking to?
This went downhill in a hurry. I've spent literally tens of thousands over the years with them and they are one of the best companies to deal with, period. However, there are things that I purchase elsewhere. I don't think anyones is knocking them, just saying some items are best purchased elsewhere.
While these particular uppers aren't my cup of tea, all things considered, I would say it's a good deal. In the past year I bought one of their DSG branded uppers and BCGs when they were on-sale. While my round count on the upper/BCG is low (300 BLK; roughly 500 rds) I haven't had any issues with the parts.
Regarding DSG Arms as a company, I've used them for years for their military discount. During the "scare" I was able to source all of the parts for a Noveske build. Throughout that whole charade they kept the discount, kept prices reasonable and honored back orders (and their customer service reps would call with updates and to ensure I still wanted what I had ordered months prior). Considering all of that, if I were looking for an upper and these fit the bill, I would buy without hesitation if only because I know that DSG would fix any issues that might arise.
Not sure what your deal is, but I never said that DSG made them and I reiterated that. You should try reading the comments first. People can spend their money how and where they want. I simply provided my ACTUAL experience with what I saw, and not something that was read on the internet.
Call it whatever you want. You clearly tried to make it sound like DSG produced the barrels you were bad talking. Its obvious that DSG is a threat to the company you are affiliated with and you wish this thread was never created. The uppers DSG are selling are a great buy, and those that have already received theirs have nothing but good things to say about them.
dramabeats
11-29-14, 14:08
Call it whatever you want. You clearly tried to make it sound like DSG produced the barrels you were bad talking. Its obvious that DSG is a threat to the company you are affiliated with and you wish this thread was never created. The uppers DSG are selling are a great buy, and those that have already received theirs have nothing but good things to say about them.
Yeah DSG is a threat to Sionics.. right
I saw the DSG prices, and then I saw the specs on them. That was enough to convince me I would pass. If I needed a super cheap budget build I might change my mind, but I'm one of those people who would rather spend a little more money for a better spec and quality product. I would not hesitate to do business with DSG on other things though as their customer service is top notch.
Yeah DSG is a threat to Sionics.. right
Who's that?
For what you are actually paying for, I would stand by the point that this is an excellent deal. As has been mentioned, you cannot purchase or build this for less, not even close percentage wise.
I personally have had zero issues with DSG Arms, be it BCG's, barrels etc or any product I have purchased from them. This is the first barrel being mentioned as a DSG special product that I am aware of. All other barrels are direct from and advertised as other manufacturers and DSG is not just a supplier but a major wholesaler and GSA in the business. I have never seen or heard of them taking "seconds" from any manufacturer. Within the past couple of years I have been using the DSG branded line of products and am more than pleased. Just ordered 10 of their inner / outer belts this past week. Ordered late afternoon their time, $5 flat rate USPS. Showed up before lunch the next day. For those that know where I am located that is unheard of.
In any case, I personally would not order one as I have numerous barrels and a few rails sitting right now and don't really care for keymod so much. But if you need a very good upper at a heck of a price, this IMO looks to be a heck of a good option. But if your barrel needs to be 4150 or MIL-B-11595E, well obviously this is not the set up for you, but that does not diminish the fact that it is a heck of a priced upper, for what you are purchasing.
I will also note that I have zero affiliation with DSG Arms. Just a very long time satisfied customer.
+1 on all of the above.
FWIW, I believe the DSG uppers in question are produced/assembled for them by Seekins. Regardless, it is a great deal.
It doesn't matter who manufactured them. Companies like Midway USA, Brownells, and DSG purchase barrels, BCG's and other components in bulk and their only consideration is how much they pay for item xxxx and how much money they will make.
This is why they sell crap like AR Stoner BCG's, YHM barrels, uppers without M4 feedramps, etc...
I don't think it's fair to lump DSG in with Midway, et al. They don't sell any of that "crap" you mention.
Fire_Medic
11-29-14, 17:57
I had pre ordered mine and it came in on Black Friday. As Surf mentioned I too have never had an issue with DSG in the past with anything I have bought from them. I have been away from AR's for a bit, and now $$ isn't what it use to be and "for me" this was a very affordable way to slap an upper on my SBR'd lower that has been sitting here collecting dust. At some point in life, you need to asses what is "your reality", and my reality is that I will most likely never wear this barrel out, and if I have any issues with the upper I am 100% confident that DSG will stand behind a product they put their name on. I got the 10" upper in 300 blk and the features are great for the price, I just don't see how you could go wrong with the cost for what you get. Time will tell going forward how this works out but I took a chance on it. I plan to run it through it's paces, as I reload my ammo shooting 300 blk won't cost me much more if at all then shooting 5.56/2.23."For me" this move made sense. As soon as I can get some powder on hand and a set of irons I will start putting ammo down range with it. It fits my lower tight with minimal wobble, my lower was a stripped N4 that I bought and stuffed a Daniel Defense lower parts kit in. I have always tried to get the best components I could find, but for the price I just couldn't pass it up. Hopefully my gamble pays off, if it doesn't oh well I got a BCG and Stripped upper out of the deal.
Just my practical $0.02
http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/WP_20141128_001_zpsde68decb.jpg
I snapped a couple of pics of the bcg, all criticism is welcomed, I'm just trying to provide more info to those who might be interested in purchasing one, will try to get better pics with daylight tomorrow:
http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/WP_20141129_21_03_55_Pro_zps36d18ce7.jpg
http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/WP_20141129_21_03_36_Pro_zpsf1bff34a.jpg
Really? I guess you haven't looked through all of their stuff before then.
I don't think it's fair to lump DSG in with Midway, et al. They don't sell any of that "crap" you mention.
Really? I guess you haven't looked through all of their stuff before then.
While I haven't memorized the entire catalog of items available from DSG, I am pretty sure they don't sell any of the items you mentioned.
If they do, by all means, please enlighten me. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Fire_Medic
11-30-14, 14:42
My digital camera took a dump and our current cell phones have crappy cameras so bare with me on the pics, especially of the feed ramps. If I can borrow a Digital camera soon or whenever the new phones come in will try for better pics.
BCG taken down:
http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/WP_20141130_009_zps2910320a.jpg
Staking on gas key (not horrible but not the best IMO):
http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/WP_20141130_007_zpsa332a110.jpg
Feed ramps (shitty picture I know but hard to get good angle with phone):
http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/WP_20141130_005_zps7e1c07f4.jpg
Hope this helps anybody out on the fence about this upper. I still need a few parts before I can get out to shoot but will report back when I can get to the range.
Actually I am not going to bother. People can buy what they want and figure it our for themselves.
ETA- These are the barrels specifically that were purchased by the guys in the class. As you can see they are sold by DSG which is where they were purchased from.
https://dsgarms.com/aarvdibrl-16-c-m4-556-m-t-l
https://dsgarms.com/aarvdibrl-115-c-m-556-m-l
https://dsgarms.com/aarvdibrl-95-p-300blk-m-t-l
While I haven't memorized the entire catalog of items available from DSG, I am pretty sure they don't sell any of the items you mentioned.
If they do, by all means, please enlighten me. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
snackgunner
11-30-14, 22:10
Actually I am not going to bother. People can buy what they want and figure it our for themselves.
Then Dont bother bad mouthing a reputable company if you Dont want to back up your claims.
ETA- These are the barrels specifically that were purchased by the guys in the class. As you can see they are sold by DSG which is where they were purchased from.
https://dsgarms.com/aarvdibrl-16-c-m4-556-m-t-l
https://dsgarms.com/aarvdibrl-115-c-m-556-m-l
https://dsgarms.com/aarvdibrl-95-p-300blk-m-t-l
I guess our minds should be blown at the proof youve just posted, showing that the dsgarms uppers, which are assembled by seekens are sub-par. ::sarcasm::
Wow, really?
SeriousStudent
11-30-14, 22:22
Let's lower the temperatures, shall we?
Snackgunner, you can dial it down. It's possible to have a polite conversation here at M4C.
Wow, really?
I think you have been warned already, so tread lightly or you'll be taking a vacation soon if you haven't earned one already.
The guy you are running your suck to is considered one of the most knowledgeable AR smiths / builders around and has a stellar reputation in the industry. Oh, and he is also a moderator here too....:suicide:
Wow, really? What's amazing is that you seem to have a hard on for this thread instead of reading the entire post.
Not sure how many other ways I can spell it out. I clearly said that I have purchased items from DSG Arms in the past. I also clearly stated that my comment was addressed towards the claim made by JLBourne that DSG Arms isn't known for being associated with crappy stuff.
I then made it very clear that there were barrels purchased from DSG in my class that were out of spec. I then linked to the barrels in question.
I think that's pretty clear.
Wow, really?
So the out of spec barrels you saw and linked to on DSG were Voodoo branded. That's actually great to know, thanks. Back on original topic, those $400 DSG marked, Seekins assembled uppers look like a great deal. YMMV.
Sent via mobile
Gunz, any other issues with those 3 barrels other than undersized ports and no dimples for set screw GBs?
I believe Voodoo barrels in general are marketed to the 3Gun crowd, folks who tend to run low mass carriers so small ports are what they want, otherwise they need to purchase an adjstable gas block. They also often use a clamp on GB, so dimples are not a benefit. Not saying any of this is superior to the more common gas port sizes and GB mounting practice, just pointing out a possible explanantion as to why the ports and GB journals are the way they are.
Would like to hear about any other issues these barrels presented in the class.
Thanks in advance.
snackgunner
12-01-14, 08:25
Wow, really? What's amazing is that you seem to have a hard on for this thread instead of reading the entire post.
I then made it very clear that there were barrels purchased from DSG in my class that were out of spec. I then linked to the barrels in question.
I think that's pretty clear.
Yes you made it very clear. You are trying to imply, in a thread about DSG uppers which are assembled by seekins, are sub par, just because some barrels (voodoo) were purchased from on dsgs website and went tits up in one of your classes. Again these voodoo barrels have nothing to do with the quality of the DSG uppers.
But you keep on slandering a good company by saying they "sell crap" if that's your agenda.
RVTMaverick
12-01-14, 08:53
Yes you made it very clear. You are trying to imply, in a thread about DSG uppers which are assembled by seekins, are sub par, just because some barrels (voodoo) were purchased from on dsgs website and went tits up in one of your classes. Again these voodoo barrels have nothing to do with the quality of the DSG uppers.
But you keep on slandering a good company by saying they "sell crap" if that's your agenda.
Hey snackgunner,
FWIW & FYI: I didn't read that into Iraqgunz reply at all.... Plus, I feel he has more then fairly tried to explain this acouple times now.
I don't know him or you but I have to say, You sure do seem to have a hard ON to argue this to Death...?
I hope you can just drop it and I would be more then surprised if Iraqguns even replies to you about this anymore...
Peace Jeff
snackgunner
12-01-14, 09:09
Hey snackgunner,
FWIW & FYI: I didn't read that into Iraqgunz reply at all.... Plus, I feel he has more then fairly tried to explain this acouple times now.
I don't know him or you but I have to say, You sure do seem to have a hard ON to argue this to Death...?
I hope you can just drop it and I would be more then surprised if Iraqguns even replies to you about this anymore...
Peace Jeff
Call it whatever you want, but when somebody slanders a good company like DSG, in a thread about DSG and their uppers, by saying DSG arms "sells crap" (yes he said that) , I'm going to stand up for a company who sells quality product. Just like all the fan boys here, yourself included I'm sure, would if someone said the same thing about the company he works for, sionics.
CrazyFingers
12-01-14, 09:31
Call it whatever you want, but when somebody slanders a good company like DSG, in a thread about DSG and their uppers, by saying DSG arms "sells crap" (yes he said that) , I'm going to stand up for a company who sells quality product. Just like all the fan boys here, yourself included I'm sure, would if someone said the same thing about the company he works for, sionics.
You keep grinding that axe and all you'll have left is the handle.:rolleyes:
I didn't get any kind of "slander" feel from IG's posts. It sounded like he was relating a first-hand experience that was directly relevant to this thread. Which he's clearly explained multiple times.
I'm not getting where your vitriol is coming from.
Call it whatever you want, but when somebody slanders a good company like DSG, in a thread about DSG and their uppers, by saying DSG arms "sells crap" (yes he said that) , I'm going to stand up for a company who sells quality product. Just like all the fan boys here, yourself included I'm sure, would if someone said the same thing about the company he works for, sionics.
Im not sure what your problem is.
A. IG doesnt work for Sionics.
B. DSG isnt a direct competitor to Sionics as one is a wholesale business and the other is a rifle manufacturer. So therefor DSG is not a threat to Sionics. Hell it is quite possible that one day DSG will sell Sionics rifles.
C. IG has given an example, which was verified by another member here, of DSG selling a sub standard barrel. To hime that could very well mean they sell some "crap".
D. You keep this up and you'll likely get banned.
RVTMaverick
12-01-14, 09:46
Call it whatever you want, but when somebody slanders a good company like DSG, in a thread about DSG and their uppers, by saying DSG arms "sells crap" (yes he said that) , I'm going to stand up for a company who sells quality product. Just like all the fan boys here, yourself included I'm sure, would if someone said the same thing about the company he works for, sionics.
Me a "fan boy"?
Dude, that is why I said "I do NOT know Him or You"... Can't be a fan boy,.... Atleast >I can Not< be a "fan boy" if I don't know the person or product or company or...
And IF you think a GREAT Company like DSGARMS, and ALL other companies World Wide for that matter, doesn't ALSO have Crap parts or products they sell too?... then OH well.
All's I'm saying is, I heard what he had to say, (as others) but to say I am not going to order this product because (a man on the internet, [From His Experience, from what He Has Seen mind you] says something is crap) that does NOT mean He feels the whole company SUX...
Which is WHY I told you, I did not read into this more then what YOU are, that's all. ;)
FWIW: I feel this IS Still a Killer deal for what it is and I will be ordering this upper assembly. ;)
Wish You the best, peace
Jeff
snackgunner
12-01-14, 09:54
Im not sure what your problem is.
A. IG doesnt work for Sionics.
B. DSG isnt a direct competitor to Sionics as one is a wholesale business and the other is a rifle manufacturer. So therefor DSG is not a threat to Sionics. Hell it is quite possible that one day DSG will sell Sionics rifles.
C. IG has given an example, which was verified by another member here, of DSG selling a sub standard barrel. To hime that could very well mean they sell some "crap".
D. You keep this up and you'll likely get banned.
Did you not see the part in his sig line that reads "I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ".
And yes I wouldn't be surprised if I got banned for speaking the truth. It has happened before here. Just like if this thread was about sionics uppers being bad mouthed and people saying they sell crap, the thread would have disappeared.
Work with and work for are two different things.
If you had specific details on why you believed Sionics uppers are no good then a thread would be welcome. I have a small amount of trigger time on Sionics guns and from what Ive seen they make a good rifle that is spec'd well.
SeriousStudent
12-01-14, 20:13
Did you not see the part in his sig line that reads "I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ".
And yes I wouldn't be surprised if I got banned for speaking the truth. It has happened before here. Just like if this thread was about sionics uppers being bad mouthed and people saying they sell crap, the thread would have disappeared.
If you get banned, it will be because a moderator (me) told you to be polite on more than one occasion, and you ignored that.
Go read your PM's. This thread is over.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.