S&W SD9VE: Possible Next Purchase

[Father of 3]

After reading a post on another forum, http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13363-S-amp-W-SD9VE-2-000-round-test-thread, I have been looking at this pistol a little closer. It is marginally taller than a G19 and has the same grip angle. I own a G17 and have tried to like the G19. As a mater of fact I owned a Gen4 G19 and ended up selling it. However there is something about where the "hump" is in the midsize Glocks frame that really bugs me. Some people do not notice the difference between the G19 and the G17. But myself, and a few others, do notice a slight difference in where the "hump" sits and how it feels in the hand.

Many people and myself included, wish that S&W would produce a G19 sized M&P. In the meantime this seems to fit the bill. The grip angle is slightly different from the M&P making it shorter than the fullsize and the slide length is the same as the G19. It has a respectable 16+1 of 9mm on board.

What intrigues me about this design is that it already has the front slide serrations (only found on the M&P 45), comes with a factory front tritium sight (the sights from the M&P model fit as well), APEX parts available to lower trigger pull to an acceptable 5.5 lbs., and lastly the most intriguing part about this for me is that it is only +/- $300 new. I actually prefer the factory stippling as well on this design.

I am going to pick up one of these and look forward to attending a class or two to run it through its paces. I had this same kind of hunch about the CZ P-07 before it became a popular option and I think this model is a sleeper. If it proves to be reliable, it may be one of the best values on the market and for new shooters. I look forward to picking this up within the next month (anniversary present to me) and evaluating myself.

Anyone else have experiences on this platform before I dive in?

[graffex]

Reminds me too much of there other former "el cheapo" the Sigma. Cheap guns don't lend any confidence to me.

[anachronism]

Ugggh. It is simply a renamed Sigma with plastic surgery (hah!). I had one of the first ones, one of the original high-end "premium" guns. It was a toad, and I traded it off for a Beretta about two days before they lost all their value. I have heard some people say that the later guns were much better, but my Sigma experience kept me from trusting S&W semi-autos for years no, decades. I only recently gave them one last chance, and bought an M&P.

[wildcard600]

i have a sigma, got it in 2004 and its been a good pistol othe than the heavy trigger. put an apex trogger in and now its great.

From my understanding the SD is a better "enhanced" version of the sigma. with apex parts i bet it could be a great gun. i was interested in one myself but have moved back to DA/SA pistols sine it like them better.

[Yale]

Not no, but hell no. If you want a decent striker fired 9mm, Bud's is running a special on an FNS-9. It's $400. Or hell, get a P-07, since you clearly have an affinity for them!

[Randy Lee]

I believe the SD is also a sleeper. Our test guns showed better accuracy in both .40 and 9mm models when we compared them to the M&Ps right out of the box. The sear disconnector system is simpler and more robust than the M&P, and far less susceptible to the dead trigger phenomenon. With some new products that we have planned for the upcoming year, I think the SD series will become much more popular.

[ccw636]

I was the one who did that test. As I said, I would not chose this gun over a Glock, HK etc. If you have someone who is on a tight budget however, I think it may be one of the best choices under $300.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3890/15017888050_f3f8c85b15.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5AUj)

It has many differences from the SIGMA, not just plastic.

SD9 extractor:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/15181546886_93e5f1aa42.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p8xoYo)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3862/15017997947_85b99fa20a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT6az6)

SIGMA extractor:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3871/15201508451_5e88e35edc.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paiGRi)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5590/15017990038_2f3c788b9d.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT68dJ)

[ccw636]

L-R- Sigma, SD9, G19:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/15017988328_07edde7f97.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT67Hf)

Size compared to the G19 (SD9 holds 16 rounds to the Glocks 15):

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/15204192532_c9d3e8673f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paxsJy)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3850/15204562375_4c0404649e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazmFa)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3848/15017991227_8a71c233cc.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT68ze)

While the trigger is not nice it is better than the Sigma without a doubt. With the Apex spring kit, it goes from a workable trigger to a fairly decent trigger. If you take the time to properly fit the Apex SD trigger, it has a absolutely wonderful results. I actually prefer it over my (stock) Glock at that point. Randy, you guys do great work!

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3860/15343869131_ea614169c3.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pnTkHM)

[jpmuscle]

All things considered thats honestly not a bad looking gun IMO. Simpler design and beefier internals as randy noted. What am I missing? Is the reliability there?

[ccw636]

Reliability for my whole sample of one was far beyond what I expected. Final break down:

Range trips: 11
Total time: 11.2 hours
Rounds per hour: 219.64
Round count: 2460
Stoppages:1
Breakages: 0
Malfunctions:1

The stoppage was a light primer strike on round #483. I counted it against the gun because the round did fire with a second attempt. The malfunction was my fault, I did not take the time to fit the Apex trigger properly. Again, this was MY fault and NOT a fault with the Apex trigger or the SD9 itself. No cookie for me.

[Sry0fcr]

The SD9 is on my low cost handguns that don't suck list. Also on the list is the Sig SP2022.

[Bret]

I bought a SW9VE and liked it so much that I bought a SW40GVE. Both are reliable, have good 3 dot sights, point well and are decently accurate. Their only real flaw is that the triggers are heavy. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a SD given that they're supposed to bean improved version of the same.

[jpmuscle]

The SD9 is on my low cost handguns that don't suck list. Also on the list is the Sig SP2022.
I've always wondered why latter wasn't more popular as it seems decent.

[anachronism]

I've always wondered why latter wasn't more popular as it seems decent.

Some people, like myself, can't get over the stigma of having had a Sigma. After almost 20 years, I finally bought another S&W semi-auto, an M&P 45. It's still not broken in yet, and I've had it for several months. I still find myself expecting it to do something stupid. It may be a while before I actually trust it.

[jpmuscle]

Some people, like myself, can't get over the stigma of having had a Sigma. After almost 20 years, I finally bought another S&W semi-auto, an M&P 45. It's still not broken in yet, and I've had it for several months. I still find myself expecting it to do something stupid. It may be a while before I actually trust it.
Maybe it has to do with its strong similarity to the word smegma?


Look it up, I dare you lol

[anachronism]

Maybe it has to do with its strong similarity to the word smegma?


Look it up, I dare you lol

I don't need to. I know what it means.

[ramairthree]

I spent a couple of hours with one Thanksgiving week. the owner was impressed with the cost. it was very reliable with various 40 rounds.

It made even a problem M&P look like a national match pistol the accuracy was so bad. The trigger made the first pull of a Glock or Beretta feel like a finely tuned 1911.
I thought it was junk.
Reliable at least to the light use we gave it,
But for God' sake pick up a lightly used Glock or m&p for a hundred dollars more.

The owner is far happier with his XD and stated he thinks it is garbage also.

On a site dedicated to calling people out for buying an M&P AR for 200$ less than a Colt why are we codling this pistol?

[Alpha Sierra]

On a site dedicated to calling people out for buying an M&P AR for 200$ less than a Colt why are we codling this pistol?
Is that what this place is all about?

[ramairthree]

Is that what this place is all about?

It is not ALL that it is about,
but there is no issue with telling it like it is about ARs here.
Cool.

But this pistol is S&Ws sub-M&P offering based on a prior failed model.

It is the AR equivalent of a Sportical or Omni.

[Bret]

It is the AR equivalent of a Sportical or Omni.
I didn't realize that the Sportical and Omni are 100% reliable, but just have heavy triggers. Perhaps I should look in to them?

[ramairthree]

I didn't realize that the Sportical and Omni are 100% reliable, but just have heavy triggers. Perhaps I should look in to them?

Maybe you should look into a Hi-Point. A guy at the local range has 2500 rounds plus last I knew through his without a single MF. That would save a hundred bucks over the updated Sigma.

I have a 100% reliable early 1990s Bushmaster I have had for over twenty years. I had bolt lugs break on an issue M4 with less rounds through it than I have on the BM. I have seen four different people at the local range with Sporticals not having issues with them. I do not recommend Bushmaster to save a hundred bucks to people for a new AR though.

Again,
what is the point of this pistol? You can grab a barely used Glock 19 or 17 for 400 bucks, or a used M&P,
or just spend two hundred dollars more on a much better offering NIB.

A heavy trigger is not the issue. I have zero issues with the DA pull on Berettas. It is the crappiest trigger I can remember pulling off the top of my head. Worse than a mag disconnect high power. Worse than a DAO third gen Smith and Wesson.

Buy whatever pistol you want.

I have plenty of budget stuff that is reliable or been made reliable to fill certain niches. If I needed to outfit three people with the same new pistol and had a budget of 900$ I guess I would have to consider it.

Discussing a company's previous mediocre at best pulled off Glock clone, that was made worse to not legally be a Glock clone, that has been "updated" to a new name with changes that still leave it wanting, as a good option?

[teutonicpolymer]

You can get a new Shield for $330, why the hell would you buy this?

If you just have grip in mind why not consider cutting a G17 frame down for G19 mags and leaving rear material there?

[Bret]

Maybe you should look into a Hi-Point. A guy at the local range has 2500 rounds plus last I knew through his without a single MF. That would save a hundred bucks over the updated Sigma.
I've fondled one, but don't like the ergonomics (grip feel & weight). If I did like the ergonomics and found they are reliable, then I would buy one.


I do not recommend Bushmaster to save a hundred bucks to people for a new AR though.
I just bought a Bushmaster Patrolman's Carbine (M4 clone) for $515 delivered. It has a chrome lined barrel and carrier. Show me where I can get a Colt for $100 more and I'm all over it.


what is the point of this pistol? You can grab a barely used Glock 19 or 17 for 400 bucks, or a used M&P,
or just spend two hundred dollars more on a much better offering NIB.

A heavy trigger is not the issue. I have zero issues with the DA pull on Berettas. It is the crappiest trigger I can remember pulling off the top of my head. Worse than a mag disconnect high power. Worse than a DAO third gen Smith and Wesson.
Owning a couple of Glocks and a M&P, I can tell you that the SW9VE and SW40VE that I own are just as good, except for the triggers. For me the point in buying a pistol is to add another good reliable one to the collection. At $260 each plus two free magazines, the SWXVE's fit the bill.


Discussing a company's previous mediocre at best pulled off Glock clone, that was made worse to not legally be a Glock clone, that has been "updated" to a new name with changes that still leave it wanting, as a good option?
The original Sigmas were previously unreliable which makes them no option in my book. Now, the newer reliable versions makes it an option. You might consider that the M16 didn't have a good reputation for reliability when it started out and now it's one of the most common military platforms in the world.

[ramairthree]

I cannot dispute that the gun fired everything we put in it or the bargain price.

I had a very different experience with the ergs, accuracy, and trigger and did not find the pistol to be just as good as a Glock, M&P, or XD and hated the gun.

That, combined with the fire sale pricing, lack of widespread, heavy use/information regarding long term reliability and durability,
limited aftermarket, etc. just makes it seem like a crazy choice to me.

[backspur]

I don't think anyone is suggesting this as a replacement for a Glock or M&P. I'd like to see some discussion of this pistol based on its merits. I get requests from people all the time to recommend a handgun in this price range.