I'm thinking about getting my first .308. PTR91a3 vs DSA SA58

[black22rifle]

I am thinking about getting my first .308 in the next few months and due to my budget the only real options I am considering are the PTR 91a3s or the DSA FAL SA58 Voyager. The prices are $919 and $975 respectively on atlantic firearms, although the DSA does not have away to mount an optic and that would add to the cost.

What experience you have with either platform? Do you not recommend one over the other? I would love a SCAR 17s but that is almost double the cost I can get one of these for. The main reason for wanting to purchase one is I want a .308 after shooting one and I like the extened range.

[Kain]

What kind of shooting are you looking at doing with the rifle? What kind of extended ranges are we talking about here? Are you going to be using irons or an optic? Range gun or HD?

Not sure I would rank one over the other by a huge margin. Will say that having fired both I find an FAL to be softer shooting and the ones I have shot have grouped better than the 91/Cetme rifles I've shot. One Century FAL grouped freakishly well, except we could never get it to group where we wanted it.

Also since we are bringing .308 semi rifles at the grand mark. CDNN has several Armalite .308s for around a grand in stock. Another rifle to consider, though they do not use the SR25/.308 pmag unfortunately as far as I know. Again something else to consider, and if others have used them for more than the couple hundred rounds I put through a carbine a few years ago it may help.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I am thinking about getting my first .308 in the next few months and due to my budget the only real options I am considering are the PTR 91a3s or the DSA FAL SA58 Voyager. The prices are $919 and $975 respectively on atlantic firearms, although the DSA does not have away to mount an optic and that would add to the cost.

What experience you have with either platform? Do you not recommend one over the other? I would love a SCAR 17s but that is almost double the cost I can get one of these for. The main reason for wanting to purchase one is I want a .308 after shooting one and I like the extened range.

Extended range is useless without accuracy, and many .308 ARs will beat both of those in accuracy, including the clearance sale Armalites mentioned above. I've owned a PTR91 a while back. It was amusing, but it kicked horribly (they vary depending on roller and locking piece condition, btw) and was just unpleasant to shoot. I have owned several FALs and still own a SA-58. DSA makes great FALs and if you want one that is the brand I would pick. But be aware that while the FAL was an excellent "battle rifle," quite possibly the best one ever, it is not accurate by the standards of a modern .308 AR (and I am talking about normal magazine feeding, not single loading cartridges at a bench - half the FAL's accuracy problem is the pressure of cartridges in the magazine on the bolt), and it is not convenient to put a scope on. (Yes, there are various scope mounts you can get, but all suffer from not being as secure as the integral rail on a .308 AR.)

If you want a .308 plinker, get the FAL, they are awesome and anyone with a collection should have one. If you want to shoot small groups at distance with a semiauto .308 rifle, I'd favor some form of .308 AR.

[black22rifle]

What kind of shooting are you looking at doing with the rifle? What kind of extended ranges are we talking about here? Are you going to be using irons or an optic? Range gun or HD?

Not sure I would rank one over the other by a huge margin. Will say that having fired both I find an FAL to be softer shooting and the ones I have shot have grouped better than the 91/Cetme rifles I've shot. One Century FAL grouped freakishly well, except we could never get it to group where we wanted it.

Also since we are bringing .308 semi rifles at the grand mark. CDNN has several Armalite .308s for around a grand in stock. Another rifle to consider, though they do not use the SR25/.308 pmag unfortunately as far as I know. Again something else to consider, and if others have used them for more than the couple hundred rounds I put through a carbine a few years ago it may help.

At the moment the only extended ranges I am looking at are 100 yards with iron sights, but down the line I plan on getting som sort of optic for it as this will primarily be a range gun.


Extended range is useless without accuracy, and many .308 ARs will beat both of those in accuracy, including the clearance sale Armalites mentioned above. I've owned a PTR91 a while back. It was amusing, but it kicked horribly (they vary depending on roller and locking piece condition, btw) and was just unpleasant to shoot. I have owned several FALs and still own a SA-58. DSA makes great FALs and if you want one that is the brand I would pick. But be aware that while the FAL was an excellent "battle rifle," quite possibly the best one ever, it is not accurate by the standards of a modern .308 AR (and I am talking about normal magazine feeding, not single loading cartridges at a bench - half the FAL's accuracy problem is the pressure of cartridges in the magazine on the bolt), and it is not convenient to put a scope on. (Yes, there are various scope mounts you can get, but all suffer from not being as secure as the integral rail on a .308 AR.)

If you want a .308 plinker, get the FAL, they are awesome and anyone with a collection should have one. If you want to shoot small groups at distance with a semiauto .308 rifle, I'd favor some form of .308 AR.

[Diezel]

I own the SA58 voyager (before it was called "voyager") and its a fine rifle. Mine functions great and it is very reliable. I haven't yet tested it for groups but just some plinking at rocks and bottles at 100 yards and it seems really accurate. I've never shot an hk91/ptr91 but, have shot a CETME and I enjoy both rifles. I do find the controls on the FAL to be more favorable than the G3 variants though... Also, the adjustable gas regulator and the ability to conduct a press check is nice. My only complaint is that I wish the voyager model came stock with an adjustable rear sight. Of course, that's maybe a $30 upgrade.

[tylerw02]

PSA .308s are cheaper. May be a better option for you.


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[Berserkr556]

I don't own a PTR but have a couple HK91s and half a dozen FALs. The FAL is a 3 to 4 MOA rifle. Some of the StG58s (Austrian FAL) will shoot 2 MOA because they have a better bbl. I like the G3 type rifles because they are more accurate but they take a little extra time to clean since they are roller delayed blowback. The FAL has better ergonomics, balances better and has what some folks say is a softer recoil impulse. The only DSA FALs I own are early Stg58 and G1 which were made with NOS Austrian and German parts so I can't comment on their current rifles. The G3 type rifles will eat any ammo you feed them including steel case. DSA doesn't recommend you shoot the steel case ammo and I believe it voids your warranty if you do. If it was me I'd go with the FAL, it served in over 90 countries and was named The Right Arm of the Free World.

ETA: The FAL is also easier to work on. If for some reason you want to change the barrel it's far easier to do so with the FAL than a G3 type rifle. I can and have built a FAL from a pile of parts. The hardest part is barreling and setting headspace. With the proper tools and knowledge it's not hard, not as easy as assembling an AR but easier than building an AK. It's a lot harder for an individual to build a G3. You not only have to be an excellent TIG welder but need to have special jigs to align everything just right. Something to consider if you like to tinker.

[black22rifle]

Excellent info, thanks guys. Does the lower receiver type matter on the DSAs? I noticed that their voyager is cheaper and thus has a cast lower as opposed to a forged one.

[Diezel]

You got it backwards. The lowers on these rifles are an aluminum alloy and the upper is cast. As far as the integrity, the rifle is rock solid. I can't compare it to other FAL's since my personal one is the only one I have shot but, it has probably 700 rounds through it and runs fine. I realize that isn't a whole lot but, also a third of the ammo i shot was steel case and about a 100 rounds of hotter .308 168gr ammo. A member on Falfiles has the voyager with well over 1k through it with no problems. Unfortunately, I have not read any reports of these rifles with a high round count and there also isnt any information I could find that suggests the cast is any weaker than the forged. You can take it for what it is... Maybe DSA has some information on this.
Also a side note, I decided to stick with brass cased ammo from now on based on all the warnings from DSA and reports of problems with said ammo in FAL's.

[SomeOtherGuy]

DSA's forged receiver (yes, upper) is probably the best FAL receiver ever made, even compared to FN Herstal originals. It costs $$$ and I guess the cast option lets them be more price competitive. Can't locate the source easily but based on memory a forged FAL receiver should last upwards of 80,000 rounds, while a cast one may last 40,000 or so depending on quality. Obviously that's more than a lifetime of use for most civilians. Other than durability, I don't think you'll notice a difference.

[halmbarte]

Another factor is that it seems like Germany is dumping their supply of G3 rifles and parts. HK parts are very cheap right now from multiple vendors.

I just picked up a PTR-91 recently and am pretty impressed with it so far. It's looking like a 2MOA rifle and function has been 100%.

H

[fbody93]

I have owned both metric and inch FALs, and a Portugese-made HK91. My experiences are somewhat opposite of the other posters, but my not be typical. With the correct bolt parts, and a heavy buffer, the HK91 is the softest shooting .308 I've ever shot. I have a german 4x scope on the claw mount and easily hit man sized targets at 500 yards. Most HK 308's take some "tuning" it seems to get them just right. When they're right though, they're very nice.

My FAL adventures were a complete disaster. I had one that shot great groups, just not groups where I wanted them. I bottomed the rear windage and could not zero the rifle. Apparently the barrel was not indexed properly. The gas system for me was very finicky. You're either short stroking or ripping the head off the case looking for the sweet spot. Ergonomics blows the hk away for sure, but for me, I like rugged, reliable, and accuracy on a longer range rifle.

My vote is for a HK/ptr, then get over to the hk forum and start learning how to tweak it a bit.

Greg

[Ron3]

To save a little money I'd go with the PTR-91.

Mine were reliable and pretty accurate with good sights. Mags are cheap and they will run on bottom barrel ammo. (think .308 from the Tula factory..)

If your a shorter person though I'd avoid it. Everything is a reach and longer limbs will run the rifle better. Recoil is soft with a heavy buffer.

If you want to mount a RDS you can spend $150 on a mount and do so.

If you want to mount a scope either buy the expensive B&T mount or use the old German claw mount. The vast majority of users will tell you the same thing after years of trying other things..

But if your AR-oriented by all means get a .308 from Armalite or better. I thought the Armalites used Pmags...?

[Berserkr556]

I thought the Armalites used Pmags...?

They make a model that uses Pmags and another that uses the Armalite mag only.

[black22rifle]

I handled a PTR91 with wood furniture at my local cabelasand although Im 5'6" and I have always thought I had short limbs and it was just fine, but cabelas being what it is want almost $1300 for it.

[rojocorsa]

DSA's forged receiver (yes, upper) is probably the best FAL receiver ever made, even compared to FN Herstal originals. It costs $$$ and I guess the cast option lets them be more price competitive. Can't locate the source easily but based on memory a forged FAL receiver should last upwards of 80,000 rounds, while a cast one may last 40,000 or so depending on quality. Obviously that's more than a lifetime of use for most civilians. Other than durability, I don't think you'll notice a difference.

I would say it's better to call it the best currently available receiver. I have an LMT made DSA, and when we built it, we had to get a tap and finish cutting the threads that the gas tube nut (the one that holds the carry handle in place) screws into.

My experience with the world of FNs so far is that people tend to jump on IMBEL made receivers faster than on DSAs (I'm guessing it's because those were made in a real FN licensed military factory).

Again these are just my observations.



OP, if you're concerned about brass the HK patterns launch them far and dent them.

[halmbarte]

To save a little money I'd go with the PTR-91.

Mine were reliable and pretty accurate with good sights. Mags are cheap and they will run on bottom barrel ammo. (think .308 from the Tula factory..)

If your a shorter person though I'd avoid it. Everything is a reach and longer limbs will run the rifle better. Recoil is soft with a heavy buffer.

If you want to mount a RDS you can spend $150 on a mount and do so.

If you want to mount a scope either buy the expensive B&T mount or use the old German claw mount. The vast majority of users will tell you the same thing after years of trying other things..

But if your AR-oriented by all means get a .308 from Armalite or better. I thought the Armalites used Pmags...?

Or get the PTR with a picatinny rail welded to the receiver in front of the rear sight. It opens up a lot of lower mounting options.

H

[Ron3]

Or get the PTR with a picatinny rail welded to the receiver in front of the rear sight. It opens up a lot of lower mounting options.

H

Yup! That would be the best way to go.

I've been trying not to buy a .308 rifle..

[MountainRaven]

Yup! That would be the best way to go.

I've been trying not to buy a .308 rifle..

All that it takes for me to stop thinking so seriously about buying another 308 self-shucker is looking at the prices for the ammo.