View Full Version : Good home defense shotgun?
July Johnson
11-25-14, 22:59
Looking for a shotgun for home defense. Budget is around $500ish. Just something simple I can rely on with no jams.
zombiescometh
11-25-14, 23:16
Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Different models to choose from.
sidewaysil80
11-25-14, 23:17
Looking for a shotgun for home defense. Budget is around $500ish. Just something simple I can rely on with no jams.
Find a used 870 in decent condition and then upgrade based on the following writeup...
http://www.rem870.com/2012/07/30/10-steps-to-upgrade-your-remington-870-express-to-police-version/
Don't get a new 870 Express. They've been coming from the factory all jacked up. Most people really seem to like finding Police Magnum trade-ins.
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plouffedaddy
11-26-14, 06:50
Don't get a new 870 Express. They've been coming from the factory all jacked up. Most people really seem to like finding Police Magnum trade-ins.
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Agreed. Unfortunately it doesn't seem you can just "upgrade" an Express and make it function like a Police model these days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw9_5JGCiWQ
I had a local gunsmith take a look at mine. I don't remember what they did but they fixed it, after taking like $100 from me.
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Don't get a new 870 Express. They've been coming from the factory all jacked up. Most people really seem to like finding Police Magnum trade-ins.
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This! I bought one and it died right out of the box. Took it back and exchanged it. Second one died right there on the counter in the store. Got a refund.
Ones I'd consider:
Older 870 Wingmaster. These were of outstanding quality. You can cut the barrel down, or get a 18" barrel for it.
Or the 870 Police model, which is said to be built to a better standard.
Mossberg. I have no experience but they are popular with LEO and ordinary citizens.
Winchester 1200 / 1300 in good condition. I found this beaut in a gun store as "used." It had never been fired. They were great guns.
29949
http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-mossberg-590a1-special-purpose-590a1-shell-storage-stock/51518
Or a used Police 870 trade in
Find a used 870 in decent condition and then upgrade based on the following writeup...
http://www.rem870.com/2012/07/30/10-steps-to-upgrade-your-remington-870-express-to-police-version/
I was doing pretty good with the link until the chamber polishing video.
July Johnson
11-26-14, 18:00
Thank you for alerting me on the 870 problems. That leaves the Mossburg 500 unless there is another one to look at.
Thank you for alerting me on the 870 problems. That leaves the Mossburg 500 unless there is another one to look at.
Don't believe everything you hear about the 870. Remember that this is the internet. People don't complain about things that work. Millions of 870 Express guns have been sold by Remington. If they were crap Remington would be out of business. I have had three of them and not had any issues.
I have multiple 870s, have had them for years and don't have a single issue to report. One of the most time tested designs out there. GH41 is correct in that the folks that are out there with issues are not necessarily indicative of a wide spread problem. Rather when you consider the sample size relative to the number in circulation, the error rate is actually fairly small.
If you can find a used 870 then this could present another option.
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/shotgun-remington-steal.asp#.VHb9IqjTlJ8
Personally, I think the Wilson Scatterguns 870 is one of the best examples of a premium definsive shotgun. I have owned one and been very satisfied with the gun.
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/shotgun-standard.asp#.VHb-U6jTlJ8
I would try a few different guns before deciding which one you want.
I would even suggest the Hawk 982, although it's made in China and that may or may not influence your decision. It's a budget shotgun ($200 or less) that's getting pretty good reviews.
All of my express 870 never have had an issue.... I can't say I have ever really seen some the issues that have been posted. I have never run one through hundreds of rounds in one sitting though....
My 870 Express in 12 guage and my gf's in 20 guage both have problems with the finish rusting. Never had any reliability issues but the finish pisses me off. For that and political reasons I am done with Remington.
FWIW , I mostly shoot glocks and carbines, but have an 870 express from about 5-6 yrs ago that I tacticaled out , maybe 125 rounds through it with no problems functionally or cosmetically.
My vote for a pump has always been Mossberg's 5901A1. Dual extractors and a better placed ambi safety.
Our work 870's need to be mortared often to remove the fired shell. Also a friend from work took his brand new 870 to quals with the SO and after 2 or 3 rounds the extractor fell to the ground...
If you live in a free state and have the coin, I'd recommend a 14" bbl version of the 590.
My vote for a pump has always been Mossberg's 5901A1. Dual extractors and a better placed ambi safety.
Our work 870's need to be mortared often to remove the fired shell. Also a friend from work took his brand new 870 to quals with the SO and after 2 or 3 rounds the extractor fell to the ground...
If you live in a free state and have the coin, I'd recommend a 14" bbl version of the 590.
This was my issue. After firing (almost every other round), the action would be locked and I'd have to mortar it to actually work the pump and pull out the spent shell.
This! I bought one and it died right out of the box. Took it back and exchanged it. Second one died right there on the counter in the store.
Died? WTF is died? Shouldn't be posting this withouit details. Thought I was on the wrong site for a moment.
July, nothing wrong with 870 at all. Or Mossbergs. The age old argument is like chevy vs ford. Don't get caught up in it.
You need to shoulder both and manipulate the controls to see with you like best, then go with it. They both work. If the stocks are too long for you you can replace them with youth stocks, which is something a lot of manly guys do all the time.
My vote for a pump has always been Mossberg's 5901A1. Dual extractors and a better placed ambi safety.
Our work 870's need to be mortared often to remove the fired shell. Also a friend from work took his brand new 870 to quals with the SO and after 2 or 3 rounds the extractor fell to the ground...
If you live in a free state and have the coin, I'd recommend a 14" bbl version of the 590.
I certainly would (edited: WOULD NOT) argue with anyone buying a 590A1, but I do have a couple questions about the issues with your 'work 870's.'
How old are they and what model?
What shells were you firing and how many?
I have a fleet of 25ish 870's that often get rode hard and put away wet - literally. We do our shotgun training on Fridays and sometimes the gang is a little anxious to leave and maybe things don't cleaned like they should - range staff sometimes gets in a hurry also and doesn't check the recruits as well as they should.
We have seen most of our stuck cases with officers firing Value Pack Ammo, if I had to pick one brand I would say Winchester Universal.
870 chambers are closer to spec then a lot of other pump guns, therein lies the problem. Additionally, if you shoot a lot of low brass w/o cleaning and go to high brass you are going to run into problems.
I've 'fixed' a few 870's with a tornado brush on a drill.
People used to think that a 590 series or an 870 would function with any shotgun shell. As stated, the Winchester Universal shell will choke'em both. I've shot as much shit ammo as anybody else plus a lot of good stuff. Premium ammo from Winchester, Remington, or Federal is the way to go. Look at the various non standard brands at Academy, Cabellas, and other box places. It'll all shoot but will display varying degrees of feeding and extraction.
Gentle polishing of a shotgun's chamber is my first step before firing a new(for me)gun. If a guy wants a good Express, find one with the older machined extractor. My opinion is that the Express's variance from Wingmaster's was not so great in years past. Of course, finish and wood were always noticeable differences. Otherwise, I've owned several older Expresses and could not detect any other differences between them and the premium Wingmasters.
July Johnson
11-28-14, 17:01
After all the input who replied (thank you) I am going to get the Mossburg. Great forum and thanks for all the help!!!
SeriousStudent
11-28-14, 22:08
................
I've 'fixed' a few 870's with a tornado brush on a drill.
Definitely agree. A chamber hone, some oil, and a Dewalt cordless drill on very low RPM can help a great deal with this.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DB8AXVO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It's easy to get in over your head with that, however. But I have fixed a few people's shotguns with that rig, especially with the newer 870 Express models.
I do love my old 870 Police Magnum. It's slicker than the lies flowing from a politician's lips.
It's slicker than the lies flowing from a politician's lips.
Now that is some serious slick!
I certainly would (edited: WOULD NOT) argue with anyone buying a 590A1, but I do have a couple questions about the issues with your 'work 870's.'
How old are they and what model?
What shells were you firing and how many?
I have a fleet of 25ish 870's that often get rode hard and put away wet - literally. We do our shotgun training on Fridays and sometimes the gang is a little anxious to leave and maybe things don't cleaned like they should - range staff sometimes gets in a hurry also and doesn't check the recruits as well as they should.
We have seen most of our stuck cases with officers firing Value Pack Ammo, if I had to pick one brand I would say Winchester Universal.
870 chambers are closer to spec then a lot of other pump guns, therein lies the problem. Additionally, if you shoot a lot of low brass w/o cleaning and go to high brass you are going to run into problems.
I've 'fixed' a few 870's with a tornado brush on a drill.
I honestly don't know which version they are. I want to say either Express or Police Magnum models, or both. They have 14" bbls but I don't pay them much attention because they have so many issues. We do have some that are not issued shotguns for training and fam fires. But a coworker who had one issued had the same problem. He cleaned it until it was spotless and it still had extraction issues.
We use Federal slugs and 00 buck for duty/quals. Occasionally we use #9 for training with steel.
I don't think it's the ammo, but I've honestly never tried to diagnose it. I have no visibility on the age of the weapons. Not much help am I? Haha!
July Johnson
12-09-14, 23:13
I bought the mossburg at cabelas over the weekend. I Like it a lot and thanks everyone for helping me out! I bought some oo buckshot too. The guys said it would stop a burgler so I grabbed 10 boxes to practice with. 50 rounds! Im ready!!!!
I bought the mossburg at cabelas over the weekend. I Like it a lot and thanks everyone for helping me out! I bought some oo buckshot too. The guys said it would stop a burgler so I grabbed 10 boxes to practice with. 50 rounds! Im ready!!!!
Save money--practice with regular shot loads rather than buck. Recoil's close enough to train with, and they're much cheaper.
We have seen most of our stuck cases with officers firing Value Pack Ammo, if I had to pick one brand I would say Winchester Universal.
Winchester Universal... universally sucks. Hah. People often grab this stuff from Walmart because it's cheap... if your gun can run it. My 590A1 jams up tight... universally... on it.
I just stick to Federal or Remington loads. For budget buckshot, I found Fiocchi loads to be decent.
If the OP is in the range of Big5 sporting goods, they run specials on the Mossberg 500 at least once a month. However, plan to drop some coin on upgrades because the basic 500 is really pretty shoddy. If you can find a deal on a 590, you won't regret it. Buy once, cry once.
...and invest a bit in some training with the shotgun. It is well worth it.
edit:
I bought the mossburg at cabelas over the weekend. I Like it a lot and thanks everyone for helping me out! I bought some oo buckshot too. The guys said it would stop a burgler so I grabbed 10 boxes to practice with. 50 rounds! Im ready!!!!
Didn't see this post until just now... which flavor of Mossberg did you end up with? Congrats! Amen on the comment above... practice with birdshot, save the 00 buck for defense use... but take at least one box of 00 to the range to practice and pattern the gun to make sure everything is OK.
teutonicpolymer
12-13-14, 08:40
It might be too late to comment but another couple to consider are the Winchester 1200/1300 and the Benelli Nova/Supernova.
I've had semi-autos that have stoppages (OK, I fired a Benelli M3 that ran all day with no issues), pump actions that either have their own issues or user-induced issues, and even a bolt action shotgun that wouldn't fire.
If I were to use a shotgun for HD it would be a short side-by-side (18.1 inch barrels or shorter) 20 gauge or larger with a light on it and only if I already was wearing a pistol. After the second the shot the shotgun would be dropped and I'd draw the pistol.
The side-by-side is short, reliable (nothing is perfect), powerful, handy, and can be kept ready. (Loaded, but partially cracked open) It's also pistol-range friendly, politically correct, (as much as a gun can be) and good enough for the most common HD scenario's. The downside is I would never use this weapon as a primary without a pistol on my person to back it up.
Thats the only scenario I'd entertain the shotgun for HD. I prefer a rifle. (Even a pistol cal. rifle)
July Johnson
12-14-14, 23:34
I bought some birdshot too. Thanks for all the help guys!!!!!!!!
Talo ran a run of the Milspc 590A1' s and these are mill-spec and more reliable than the 870. Remington stayed out of the Goverment bid for known reliability issue's. Issue since 1991 the Goverment 590A1 with 200,000 bought.
Averageman
01-12-15, 14:36
I have two HD Shotguns, one a 870 Express mag and the other is a 500.
I've went through everything on both of them, tweaking little things as I go and in the end its still a HD Shotgun. I bought both of them used and went through them pretty closely buying and adjusting/changing as I went.
I think honestly if you're going to go through them like I did, you might as well buy an Ugly Betty pawn shop special and start from there. In the end you'll be better off not spending more than 150.00 each and just accept you're going to do the work yourself.
I would suppose you might get the 90% answer straight out of the box somewhere, but you will end up swapping stuff around anyway.
Renegade04
01-13-15, 10:25
I have my Franchi SPAS-12 for my HD shotgun.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/SPAS-12/004_zps7d10f0a7.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/SPAS-12/004_zps7d10f0a7.jpg.html)
My choice, Browning BPS All Weather
31100
Anywhere you look or ask, your 75% plus reply will be Remington, the Mossberg 500 had been around forever and works, then there is the 590, and lastly the 590A1, the A1 is twice the shotgun as anr 870, and as a tactical, twice as good, the safety is 100% ambi, it's a heavier duty shotgun, everything is thicket and meater, etc
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