Please read before you move this NFA thread

[No Bananas]

Ok, this thread covers an NFA question. But as I explain you'll probably see why I didn't ask it there. I'd get the same answer from everyone there (yes, it's cool. Do it.) I'm tossing around the idea of getting a receiver and doing a form 1 to register it as an NFA 10.5" SBR (short barrel rifle). I'm not some kinda gov't conspiracy guy. No, I don't have all my food in jars and I don't avoid the tap water that may be flouride laced :D :D . But I feel kinda wierd about having a gun registered. I'm not intimidated by the backround checks. I'm clean as a whistle. Shot, I've never had a speeding ticket. But I seem to remember that Canada & Australia registered the guns and then some time later the gov't came and got em. I've talked to a lot of folks who've done it and they aren't worried at all. I'm not a law breaker, and if the gov't came to get em, well, what am I gonna do anyway? I guess they could get records from the FFLs and then they'd see have firearms anyway.

I just kinda feel uneasy about the whole thing. I think the BATFE can come to your house and ask to see the registered firearm. That sounds unsettleing. Then anywhere you take it you have to bring the documentation with you. What if you run into Deputy Ignorance who decided to run you in till he/she can make heads or tales of your firearm and the fed registration. Is it public record? I don't want a potential employer to see this on a background check and dicriminate against me and think I'm some wacko.

If I asked this over at the NFA, they'd all say to do it. Most there already own NFA and are comfortable with it. What do y'all think?

[exitinyourhead]

I think your right about the gov't already knowing exactly what you have without you even registering it. I would still do it (i'm going to register one myself as an SBR.) I think the right to have these weapons may have a short life span and that hopefully those of us that do go through the process will be grandfathered through whatever they pass.

This is the first year I've actually though this way. I never even considered a Weapons permit before, but now I have one and I am going to apply for a tax stamp on an sbr and a can as well. Get it while the getting is good.

I am also not a gov't conspiracy guy, but I'm not a "never see it comming" guy either.

[markm]

It's really no big deal.

Once you get your first few NFA items you'll realize that no one cares. No one asks for your papers. No one bats an eye. It's really not the heavy responsibility that it seems.

Sometimes I have to back up for a second and make sure I even have a copy of my papers with me because I'm so used to not having to explain the items to anyone.

[Jay Cunningham]

I think one the first one or two approvals everyone sweats bullets like the CIA is investigating them - but consider how many individuals in the US own NFA firearms...

I am thinking we are all just paperwork to the BATFE. I also don't think the average LEO is going to think "Hmm, is that an NFA violator?" if he drives past the range and sees you shooting your 12.5" AR.

[markm]

I am thinking we are all just paperwork to the BATFE.

And a big source of Revenue! I wonder what all those $200 checks get used for? :eek:

[762mmFMJ]

All I can say is that if I could have an SBR, I would get one. My home state of Washington is pretty NFA unfriendly. No SBR's, No SBS's, No Full-Auto. You can have a silencer/suppressor, but you can't use it. The only NFA items we can have and actually use are AOW's.
So, consider yourself fortunate you even have the option where you live, because many people don't. Just do it!

[No Bananas]

You guys are making sense.

[b_saan]

My .02: If you dislike registering them with the government in your name with the photos and prints and BGCs, go for the trust route instead, at least then there's some seperation of personal info from the process. Otherwise if it's going to keep you up at night, just go for a 14.5 with pinned FH and call it a day. Personally, the application process didn't bother me all that much, I got a nice form letter from our great Sherrif Joe thanking me for going through the process, my ATF check has been cashed and I'm awaiting my approval and stamps with clammy hands and bated breath... :D

[ZDL]

If I remember correctly, (could be way wrong here), local LE does not have the jurisdiction over NFA items. Again, could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that local LE can not ask for the paper work or something to that effect. :confused:

[Ross]

Back in the 80's I bought my first class three item. A 1928 Thompson SMG. I went though the same thought process back then.

Once you actually get one, you realize that the whole issue to the govt is one of taxes. They don't brand you in any way, and it doesn't show up as any kind of "red flag" in any document. As a tax issue, the govt has to keep it completely private by law anyway. No one can just ask the IRS to see a copy of your tax returns, and by law, the whole class three thing is a tax, so it falls under the same security.

As far as the gun confiscation schemes, you'll notice that when the federal gov decided to make something hard to get, they made it class three. To them, the class three stuff is controlled. So it's probably going to be the very last guns to ever feel any kind of real threat, because the registration, tax, etc. is easier to control, track, and trace. Because of the expsense of class three stuff, many people that have money, power, etc have them, so there's less of a political will to mess with them than the regular Joe as far as wholesale confiscation goes. Remember, if the ATF wanted to collect up all the class three stuff today, they'd have to confiscate some of the Vice President's stuff too. You can kinda see how that's not the preferred path to go down for any agency. Sure, it's not safe from the gun grabbers, but it's probably safer than "normal" guns, simply because it's already been restricted.

Your constitutional rights don't go away just because you own a class three item. The ATF can't just knock on your door in the middle of the night and barge in and demand you show them your DIAS and form 4. The whole idea of this has been a myth for decades. It stems from FFL's having inspections, which the ATF has to do during normal business hours and usually sets an appointment for because they have time managment issues just like anyone else. They also already know that you have the item to begin with, because they are the ones that put the stamp on the form 4. So when you think about it, what would be the whole point of a visit? The only thing would be to see if you still have it I suppose. Considering their workload, it would be pretty much a waste of time for them.

If they need to see it because of some reason, they'd probably ask you and if you didn't cooperate, they'd have to get a warrant. Just like anything else that the govt wants to see.

While local police may be fairly ignorant of the text of the laws for class three, in jurisdictions where class three actually exists, they probably know enough to not have to sort much out, or will call someone who does know. Getting thrown in the slammer just to "figure things out" is a lawsuit waiting to happen, and most departments are pretty savy about that kinda stuff.

Frankly, the worry should be much higher buying a regular gun through the "system". Worry less about class three stuff, because they already have you pretty much doing what they want you to do to begin with.

[theJanitor]

i pray for the day that i can apply for a stamp. i love Hawaii, but the gun laws suck.

[markm]

If I remember correctly, (could be way wrong here), local LE does not have the jurisdiction over NFA items. Again, could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that local LE can not ask for the paper work or something to that effect. :confused:


Not exactly. You could take the stance that you're not going to cooperate with the fuzz. But they CAN take the weapon and contact the Feds for further investigation. They have the ability to pass the torch on to those who can handle the issue.

[C4IGrant]

Ok, this thread covers an NFA question. But as I explain you'll probably see why I didn't ask it there. I'd get the same answer from everyone there (yes, it's cool. Do it.) I'm tossing around the idea of getting a receiver and doing a form 1 to register it as an NFA 10.5" SBR (short barrel rifle). I'm not some kinda gov't conspiracy guy. No, I don't have all my food in jars and I don't avoid the tap water that may be flouride laced :D :D . But I feel kinda wierd about having a gun registered. I'm not intimidated by the backround checks. I'm clean as a whistle. Shot, I've never had a speeding ticket. But I seem to remember that Canada & Australia registered the guns and then some time later the gov't came and got em. I've talked to a lot of folks who've done it and they aren't worried at all. I'm not a law breaker, and if the gov't came to get em, well, what am I gonna do anyway? I guess they could get records from the FFLs and then they'd see have firearms anyway.

I just kinda feel uneasy about the whole thing. I think the BATFE can come to your house and ask to see the registered firearm. That sounds unsettleing. Then anywhere you take it you have to bring the documentation with you. What if you run into Deputy Ignorance who decided to run you in till he/she can make heads or tales of your firearm and the fed registration. Is it public record? I don't want a potential employer to see this on a background check and dicriminate against me and think I'm some wacko.

If I asked this over at the NFA, they'd all say to do it. Most there already own NFA and are comfortable with it. What do y'all think?


The govt is not going to come into your house at 1AM and ask to see your NFA paper work. They also cannot search your home without a warrant.
Local police have nothing to do with your SBR. If they cannot understand your paper work, they will call for ATF support.
NFA purchases do not show up on background checks.

Now for the real deal. Having come from an intel background working HUMINT, ELINT and COMMINT, I can tell you that the Govt (if they wanted too) knows if you have guns or not (even though you tried to be sneaky and buy all your guns without 4473's).



C4

[markm]

I can tell you that the Govt (if they wanted too) knows if you have guns or not (even though you tried to be sneaky and buy all your guns without 4473's).


Yeah! But do they know where I buried them all? :D

[tiger seven]

Yeah! But do they know where I buried them all? :D

Yes. The satellites were watching you the whole time. ;)

On topic, I agree with what most of the others have already said. As a first timer at the whole NFA thing, when I sent in my Form 1 I was typically apprehensive about it. Having heard tons of gun store/gun show/gun forum BS about it made it sound like a nightmare waiting to happen, with months and months of bureaucratic delays and a background check worthy of the Stasi. Once you go through with it you realize that it's just a bit of paperwork and $200 in taxes, and that you're not going on "The Big List" as one of the first to be rounded up and disarmed. Unless of course it's the puppet government working with the Russian invaders and those elite elements of Cuban and Nicaraguan paratroopers. :eek:

Derek

[TroyTK]

If I remember correctly, (could be way wrong here), local LE does not have the jurisdiction over NFA items. Again, could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that local LE can not ask for the paper work or something to that effect. :confused:


Not true! In Arizona at least, there are laws that make possession of weapons with short barrels, silencers, and automatic weapons illegal, UNLESS it is Federally registered. You would be guilty of a felony if you possessed one of the above items under state law.

You could refuse to show LE your federal paperwork, but that would get you arrested because it shows you are not in violation of the state statute!

Part of Arizona Revised Statute 13-3101 that defines prohibited weapons is modified by:

B. The items set forth in subsection A, paragraph 7, subdivisions (a), (b), (c) and (d) of this section do not include any firearms or devices that are registered in the national firearms registry and transfer records of the United States treasury department or any firearm that has been classified as a curio or relic by the United States treasury department

[ZDL]

Not true! In Arizona at least, there are laws that make possession of weapons with short barrels, silencers, and automatic weapons illegal, UNLESS it is Federally registered. You would be guilty of a felony if you possessed one of the above items under state law.

You could refuse to show LE your federal paperwork, but that would get you arrested because it shows you are not in violation of the state statute!

Part of Arizona Revised Statute 13-3101 that defines prohibited weapons is modified by:

B. The items set forth in subsection A, paragraph 7, subdivisions (a), (b), (c) and (d) of this section do not include any firearms or devices that are registered in the national firearms registry and transfer records of the United States treasury department or any firearm that has been classified as a curio or relic by the United States treasury department

Not what I meant but I understand what you are talking about. I think I have read somewhere that local LE can not ask too see your paper work to begin with. Again, I'm sure I read it on the internet so there is a good chance it and I am wrong.