View Full Version : Bobro Users: Is this Normal?
FourT6and2
11-29-14, 07:40
Being a QD type mount, is it normal for the mount to take chunks of the rail out every time you attach and/or remove it? This isn't merely a "mark" in the finish of the rail. It is all the way down to the bare metal. Over time, will this eat more and more of the rail away? Hard to see in the photo, but the length of the damage goes to about half-way down the height of the lugs. And can naked aluminum rust? The reason it's doing this is the mount's recoil lug has a rather large "bump" in it (by design) that indexes against the rail's lug. It's supposed to compress I guess. But in doing so, it's gauging up the rail. I know "it's a gun," a tool, and not something that's going to remain pristine. But this is actual damage. It's not cosmetic.
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2014/333/6/d/photo_1_by_haftelm-d882h4b.jpg
Who made that receiver?
C4
I have three Bobros, and they don't do that.
SpeedRacer
11-29-14, 10:02
Who made that receiver?
C4
This.
To answer the questions, no that shouldn't happen, and no aluminum does not rust.
Out of spec reciever issue here I suspect. Tuning in for manufacturer of the upper.
I have three Bobro mounts and all leave no marks on either of my AR upper recievers (Rainier Arms and BCM).
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4
This doesn't happen with my Bobro ACOG mount.
1. One of my Bobros has left a circular mark on the horizontal surface of the slot. Not a concern so I don't think about it.
2. Aluminum oxides, but does not rust. This is a surface condition only and should not be something to worry about. Aluminum oxide is quite hard (harder than pure aluminum) and forms rapidly after exposure to oxygen.
3. Having been down this road with other mounts more than once, I am going to guess what will happen: the mount maker will blame the rail for being out of spec, the rail maker will blame the mount for being defective. You can't fault them for that, it's just each maker will not want to instantly take the blame for the situation. This may lead each to ask you to send them the whole assembly for examination.
4. First thing is to check the Bobro against another piece of rail from a good manufacturer (preferably aluminum). If you can (or can not) replicate the mark on another in spec rail section, then you may have the answer.
FourT6and2
11-29-14, 16:57
The rifle is a Noveske, Gen III upper.
I checked the mount on a separate piece of Noveske Keymod and it didn't cause any damage or marks. The piece of keymod rail I have has a different coating. The rifle is anodized and cerakoted according to the specs listed on Noveske's website. And the keymod I tried the mount on is much darker and slightly textured.
I contacted Bobro, but they didn't really say much in response, just that "The index is designed to contact the rail, and it shoves itself forward in the slot. There is contact." Reading between the lines, I think they're saying to forget about it. But this isn't cosmetic. It's actually digging into the metal of the rail. and since the rail and receiver are one piece, it could be a problem if I continue to use this mount. I specifically bought a Bobro mount to avoid the issue of Larue mounts digging into the side of the rail, only to find that the Bobro is digging into the top of the rail. Lose lose for me.
So I guess I need to contact Noveske now. But I don't know what they're going to do. Other than me asking for a refinish or a new upper receiver, which I doubt will happen. I just bought this rifle about 3 weeks ago. ugh.
Have you examined the face of the mount that contacts that portion of the rail? You might have a nick in the mount.
Have you examined the face of the mount that contacts that portion of the rail? You might have a nick in the mount.
Not to be a jerk, but do you mean burr (not nick)? If so, that is a good possibility. I hadn't thought of that.
I was thinking about the displacement you sometimes get with a nick, so yes - a burr.
Being a QD type mount, is it normal for the mount to take chunks of the rail out every time you attach and/or remove it? This isn't merely a "mark" in the finish of the rail. It is all the way down to the bare metal. Over time, will this eat more and more of the rail away? Hard to see in the photo, but the length of the damage goes to about half-way down the height of the lugs. And can naked aluminum rust? The reason it's doing this is the mount's recoil lug has a rather large "bump" in it (by design) that indexes against the rail's lug. It's supposed to compress I guess. But in doing so, it's gauging up the rail. I know "it's a gun," a tool, and not something that's going to remain pristine. But this is actual damage. It's not cosmetic.
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2014/333/6/d/photo_1_by_haftelm-d882h4b.jpg
How often are you removing your QD mount, and why?
How often are you removing your QD mount, and why?
Am I the only one here that wants to use the "T" word?? You ask a valid question George but this guy isn't willing to accept any answer he doesn't want to hear.
How often are you removing your QD mount, and why?
Doesn't matter, that's what it is designed to do.
Doesn't matter, that's what it is designed to do.
I always suspect operator error before a hardware error, that's why I'm asking him how often he is taking his mount on/off and why.
FourT6and2
11-29-14, 19:56
I always suspect operator error before a hardware error, that's why I'm asking him how often he is taking his mount on/off and why.
I was moving the mount around on the rail to find the best position for my scope. I can't foresee how much I will be removing the mount in the future. However this is a QD mount and it was designed to be removable...
There is no burr on the recoil lug. If anybody has seen a Bobro mount, you will find that the recoil lug has a bump or protrusion that forces it against the rail. This bump is what is causing the damage. I am not blaming Bobro though. I was just wondering if this was a common thing. Maybe the finish in my gun is super soft. Or maybe the rail is "out of spec." I don't know either way. I certainly haven't seen this happen with anybody else though.
FourT6and2
11-29-14, 20:02
Am I the only one here that wants to use the "T" word?? You ask a valid question George but this guy isn't willing to accept any answer he doesn't want to hear.
Seems like you're the one trolling here. Your post isn't on topic and it's purpose is to instigate drama.
I was moving the mount around on the rail to find the best position for a scope. I can't foresee how much I will be removing the mount in the future. However this is a QD mount and it was designed to be removable...
There is no burr on the recoil lug. If anybody has seen a Bobro mount, you will find that the recoil lug has a bump or protrusion that forces it against the rail. This bump is what is causing the damage.
Do you have the scope that you are adjusting the positioning for yet? I didn't think so. Yes... QD mounts are designed to be removed quickly when necessary. They are not designed to be removed 8 times a day 7 days a week. Please listen and learn.
FourT6and2
11-29-14, 20:35
Do you have the scope that you are adjusting the positioning for yet? I didn't think so. Yes... QD mounts are designed to be removed quickly when necessary. They are not designed to be removed 8 times a day 7 days a week. Please listen and learn.
Yes, I already have the scope. It arrived two weeks ago.
Please listen and learn? Who the hell do you think you are? You haven't offered a single bit of helpful information at all in this or any other thread of mine. So who exactly am I supposed to listen and learn from? You? Right, fat chance. And this is now the FOURTH time you've come into a thread of mine and started acting like a fool. To anybody reading this, this guy has some weird fetish obsession with me. He comes into every thread of mine and intentionally tries to derail it.
For the FOURTH time, please go away. Stop trolling my threads.
My company, Kinetic Ops, has dealt with Andrew Bobro for four years and he's a standup guy. I'd send it back to have him look it over - if there's a problem he'll fix it. If he says it's good to go then I'd trust him.
"The only thing new is the history you don't know".
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Do you have the scope that you are adjusting the positioning for yet? I didn't think so. Yes... QD mounts are designed to be removed quickly when necessary. They are not designed to be removed 8 times a day 7 days a week. Please listen and learn.
I've never read anywhere that their is a limit on mounting and dismounting a quality QD optic mount on a quality upper reciever. Post a valid link to this info you are freely quoting. I doubt op is playing with this Brobo QD.
I have three Bobros, and they don't do that.
Me too.
I've had a Bobro do that. It's not an issue as that part of the rail is not critical. You need to think of it the same way you do wear around the cam pin pocket.
FourT6and2
11-30-14, 04:08
I've had a Bobro do that. It's not an issue as that part of the rail is not critical. You need to think of it the same way you do wear around the cam pin pocket.
Alright then. If that's the case I guess I will just have deal with it. But it's a little disappointing to buy a mount touted as being compatible even with out of spec rails since it is self adjusting, only to find that it causes damage. That's why I went with Bobro instead of Larue.
Are Noveske rails known to be out of spec?
Thanks.
FourT6and2
11-30-14, 04:11
I've never read anywhere that their is a limit on mounting and dismounting a quality QD optic mount on a quality upper reciever. Post a valid link to this info you are freely quoting. I doubt op is playing with this Brobo QD.
Thank you. You are correct. I am not playing with the mount, taking it on and off over and over. I simply mounted it up in one position, put the scope on and moved the mount forward a few notches to get it where I wanted it. When I moved it up, I noticed the rail. So I took the mount off and haven't put it back on since. Hardly out of the ordinary I'm sure.
Sell the mount and move on to a Larue. All my Larue QD mounts work as advertised. I regularly switch back and forth between optics and my upper is not chewed up.
FourT6and2
11-30-14, 11:43
Sell the mount and move on to a Larue. All my Larue QD mounts work as advertised. I regularly switch back and forth between optics and my upper is not chewed up.
I was thinking of just returning it and going with AMD or Larue.
I was thinking of just returning it and going with AMD or Larue.
Then you'll be back here asking why you are getting marks on the sides of the rail from the LaRue mount. I like Bobro, LaRue, and ADM, but the truth is that any optic mount can make marks on your rail if you take them off and put them on enough. I have several examples of each brand of mount and some work better with some optics and rifle purposes than others. Marks on the rail are not how I determine which mount I use.
Bobro makes a helluva nice mount and you don't have to adjust it like the others. So choose accordingly.
The rifle is a Noveske, Gen III upper.
I checked the mount on a separate piece of Noveske Keymod and it didn't cause any damage or marks. The piece of keymod rail I have has a different coating. The rifle is anodized and cerakoted according to the specs listed on Noveske's website. And the keymod I tried the mount on is much darker and slightly textured.
I contacted Bobro, but they didn't really say much in response, just that "The index is designed to contact the rail, and it shoves itself forward in the slot. There is contact." Reading between the lines, I think they're saying to forget about it. But this isn't cosmetic. It's actually digging into the metal of the rail. and since the rail and receiver are one piece, it could be a problem if I continue to use this mount. I specifically bought a Bobro mount to avoid the issue of Larue mounts digging into the side of the rail, only to find that the Bobro is digging into the top of the rail. Lose lose for me.
So I guess I need to contact Noveske now. But I don't know what they're going to do. Other than me asking for a refinish or a new upper receiver, which I doubt will happen. I just bought this rifle about 3 weeks ago. ugh.
Noveske cerakotes their uppers and lowers. So that is probably what you are seeing.
C4
Alright then. If that's the case I guess I will just have deal with it. But it's a little disappointing to buy a mount touted as being compatible even with out of spec rails since it is self adjusting, only to find that it causes damage. That's why I went with Bobro instead of Larue.
Are Noveske rails known to be out of spec?
Thanks.
It is working with your rail and no, there is no damage. Remember that cerakoting DOES add thickness so you are seeing wear through the cerakoting.
C4
Sell the mount and move on to a Larue. All my Larue QD mounts work as advertised. I regularly switch back and forth between optics and my upper is not chewed up.
The LT lever will do more damage than a Bobro mount (FYI).
C4
FourT6and2
12-01-14, 12:02
Alright then, as long as it won't cause any issues in the future I will use it as is.
I was concerned because I've never read about this happening to anybody else's rifle before.
Noveske uppers should be good to go. Unfortunately its just the nature of the mount. Can be a little disheartening but it is metal on metal. Good luck!
If you rub your finger on it(skin) and it catches, maybe something is going on, but it still wont cause any issues. If its smooth, you're fine. Anodizing is not thick and it does not take much to rub it off.
I have a larue mount and it removed the anodizing the first time I put it on. Anodizing is a colored oxide layer, and exposed aluminum will form a new oxide layer(not exactly the same, but similar) that is white, over the base metal and protect itself. Corrosion is a non-issue.
Enjoy your new mount... looks like you're buying quality stuff. Once you get some rounds downrange and start using this stuff, you wont even worry about dings and scratches.
FourT6and2
12-01-14, 22:49
If you rub your finger on it(skin) and it catches, maybe something is going on, but it still wont cause any issues. If its smooth, you're fine. Anodizing is not thick and it does not take much to rub it off.
I have a larue mount and it removed the anodizing the first time I put it on. Anodizing is a colored oxide layer, and exposed aluminum will form a new oxide layer(not exactly the same, but similar) that is white, over the base metal and protect itself. Corrosion is a non-issue.
Enjoy your new mount... looks like you're buying quality stuff. Once you get some rounds downrange and start using this stuff, you wont even worry about dings and scratches.
It's a gauge/nick that goes through the cerakote, through the anodizing, and reveals the bare metal of the receiver. Someone said the cerakote is probably why it's happening, as that adds thickness to the rail. I can see how that might be the case.
I'm over it at this point. People are saying to forget about it and that it's nothing to worry about. So I won't.
Been following this thread but was too lazy to open my closet and gun case to remove my Bobro to see if there was any damage from the mount. I can confirm that my Bobro Mount on an Aimpont T-1 purchased from G&R Tactical does not leave ANY mark on a BCM upper receiver. I think Grant nailed it on the head with the Noveske Cerakote. BTW, it is my opinion that Bobro is simply the best engineered mount on the market.
FourT6and2
12-02-14, 15:27
Been following this thread but was too lazy to open my closet and gun case to remove my Bobro to see if there was any damage from the mount. I can confirm that my Bobro Mount on an Aimpont T-1 purchased from G&R Tactical does not leave ANY mark on a BCM upper receiver. I think Grant nailed it on the head with the Noveske Cerakote. BTW, it is my opinion that Bobro is simply the best engineered mount on the market.
Thanks for checking your rifle. :)
Just out of curiosity, if anybody has a Bobro mount and a Noveske, please let me know if your rail is affected if you can.
I have no marks on my Noveske upper from the Bobro Extended scope mount.
FourT6and2
12-03-14, 19:00
I have no marks on my Noveske upper from the Bobro Extended scope mount.
Interesting. I wonder why mine does then. Which upper do you have? Gen III?
patriot_man
12-05-14, 17:59
Could it be the anodizing under the cerakote is thinner to compensate for the thickness of the cerakote? Could be the reason why the bobro went into the receiver.
FourT6and2
12-05-14, 18:24
Could be. I don't know either way. I haven't contacted Noveske yet. But I will on Monday to just ask. In any event, scope is mounted:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/338/4/f/photo_by_haftelm-d88q1yq.jpg
Just out of curiosity, if anybody has a Bobro mount and a Noveske, please let me know if your rail is affected if you can.
I have a Noveske upper with the MUR receiver and this is how mine looks with a Bobro mount. I barely shoot the thing. My MUR is anodized, albeit not very well (apparently).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4481604/forum-pics/bobro-scars.jpg
FourT6and2
12-17-14, 10:25
I have a Noveske upper with the MUR receiver and this is how mine looks with a Bobro mount. I barely shoot the thing. My MUR is anodized, albeit not very well (apparently).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4481604/forum-pics/bobro-scars.jpg
Thanks. Looks similar to mine, although on yours it appears that it's just the anodizing wearing off (i.e. it's cosmetic). But on mine, it's actually digging into the metal of the receiver.
Nothing I can do about it though. I put some oil on the recoil lug of the mount. So hopefully it helps the knob/protrusion of the lug slip into the notch without taking more material away.
Maybe if that protrusion on the lug were radiused a bit more, it might solve this problem. But it doesn't appear that it happens to everybody so I doubt Bobro would revise his design. However there are currently 9 revisions of this product according to the label on the box. So you never know.
FourT6and2
01-07-15, 13:02
FOLLOWING UP:
I recently purchased a second Noveske Gen III rifle. Build date is 8 months after my other one. There are a number of small changes to the design of the rifle. Many are cosmetic. But the rail is a little different. And the Bobro mount does NOT dig into the rail on this rifle...
Regarding the rail itself, there are two changes as far as I can tell. 1) The finish on the hand guard is different and 2) The edges of the rail are now scalloped.
I believe the issue on the other rifle is caused by variations in the cerakote and/or anodizing process that made the tolerances between the recoil lugs of the rail tighter.
steyrman13
02-04-15, 13:28
I think I know what caused this on top of the Cerakote being thicker. I believe it is the holes that mount the base to the ring portion. One of mine has razor sharp edges in the holes. It could be the edge of it making those marks. Check to make sure there isn't any burrs on those holes.
FourT6and2
02-04-15, 14:31
I think I know what caused this on top of the Cerakote being thicker. I believe it is the holes that mount the base to the ring portion. One of mine has razor sharp edges in the holes. It could be the edge of it making those marks. Check to make sure there isn't any burrs on those holes.
Thanks. On my mount, it was 100% the recoil lug though. And I don't think the mount is to blame, it's an issue with the rifle's rail. On my newer Noveske, the rail is different and the finish is slightly different. And because of that, the mount doesn't dig in like on my other rifle.
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