View Full Version : gun range issues
cavscout82nd
06-26-08, 10:22
just a question to my fellow AR shooters; I joined a local conservation (gun) club this past April. i've been out there about half a dozen times to shoot my AR and i've brought my son to shoot his .22 rifle and both of us to shoot our bows. the problem i run into is the less than friendly looks i get when shooting my AR. no one has said anything to me overtly, however the "bad vibes" are definitly there. I don't shoot rapid fire when at the range. i'm more interested in slow and steady accurate shooting when i'm at the range. so my question is, does any one else run into hostilities when shooting their AR's from so called fellow firearms owners? just wonderin' if it's me!
just a question to my fellow AR shooters; I joined a local conservation (gun) club this past April. i've been out there about half a dozen times to shoot my AR and i've brought my son to shoot his .22 rifle and both of us to shoot our bows. the problem i run into is the less than friendly looks i get when shooting my AR. no one has said anything to me overtly, however the "bad vibes" are definitly there. I don't shoot rapid fire when at the range. i'm more interested in slow and steady accurate shooting when i'm at the range. so my question is, does any one else run into hostilities when shooting their AR's from so called fellow firearms owners? just wonderin' if it's me!
We're our own worst enemy sometimes. Bullseye shooters don't want action pistol. Trap/skeet don't want anything else. Hunters don't want "assault rifles" or pistols. Some want loading restrictions, rounds per minute, square ranges, fixed positions, no drawing from holsters. Much frustration.
Disdainful looks. "Oh, you're one of the those."
We do it to ourselves, really, through various acts of assclownery. One fellow bumpfiring at the club can prompt a wide variety of encumberances.
At a retailer, I picked up ~2500 rounds of 55gr FMJ and JSP. A fellow in line behind me opined, "a lot of prairie dogs are going to fall this summer!" He couldn't believe I would shoot it in a long weekend at a defensive rifle class. Whatever would I want a class to learn THAT for. Ugh.
Some just look, some ask about it... I let most folks shoot a round or two and they all like it.
I go to a public outdoor range range on a National Forest and all types of shooters use it. Blackpowder, AR's, all types of pistols and hunting firearms.
One of the shooters I meet about two months ago is a retired LEO from FL and he had a couple of Class 3 items. :D
.
cavscout82nd
06-26-08, 14:26
thanks for your thoughts on this guys. you remember that flap about Jim Zumbo's opinion on "assault rifle's" a couple of years ago? I thought he was in the minority on this. perhaps there are more "anti-gun" gun owners out there than we think.......
perhaps there are more "anti-gun" gun owners out there than we think.......
It's sad but ture. Lot's of dumpOcrap (democratic) supporting hunters out there. :(
I'm not anti-hunter ( I've deer hunted all my life ) but most of them have the blinders on when it comes to other firearms sports and uses. That's why I like to give folks a chance to shoot my AR to take away some of the negative stereotypes that others may have toward AR's and their owners.
.
No, the range I am a member of allows Class 3 weapons....maybe it's time to find a new range brother.
You're looking at this as a problem....turn it into an opportunity.
Always getting on Mrs Rembrandt for similar assumptions. For some reason many women tend to read emotions and intent based purely on how someone looked at them. Your analysis of how other shooters looked at you and your black rifle may or may not be justified. Before accepting that as a fact, you should introduce yourself and strike up a friendship. Never met a person that couldn't handle a few more friends.
I'm with you man, sometimes when I pull out the AK and AR I get looks like I just kicked a baby or something:eek:
03humpalot
06-26-08, 15:21
I have found that most of the people who give you "The Look" can be converted to our side. Engage them in conversation and use the opportunity to let them see things from our side.
This goes double for non-gunowners, take them out shooting whenever the opportunity presents itself....especially if they are nubile young females.;)
Maybe check with the staff there and see about hosting a clinic. Sort of like the Home Depot "how to" Saturday morning. Some of it may be ignorance with the rifle, what it's capable of, etc. Maybe follow the line of showing them the parts, taking it apart, cleaning/maintenance and then a range demo and an opportunity for them to shoot it/them.
RogerinTPA
06-26-08, 20:02
[QUOTE=cavscout82nd;182810]just a question to my fellow AR shooters; I joined a local conservation (gun) club this past April. i've been out there about half a dozen times to shoot my AR and i've brought my son to shoot his .22 rifle and both of us to shoot our bows. the problem i run into is the less than friendly looks i get when shooting my AR. no one has said anything to me overtly, however the "bad vibes" are definitly there. I don't shoot rapid fire when at the range. i'm more interested in slow and steady accurate shooting when i'm at the range. so my question is, does any one else run into hostilities when shooting their AR's from so called fellow firearms owners? just wonderin' if it's me!
Just keep shooting and let them initiate a response if they don't like it. Then tell them to piss off. Try looking for other more AR friendly ranges. You think you have it bad? There is a fairly nice outdoor range where I live that will not allow anyone with a semi auto rifle to have more than 1 round in the magazine at a time and 3 rounds to zero IF a Range Officer is standing right over you. Their BS response was "A guy with an Semi AR broke the sear and the weapon went full auto". I tried to explain that the explanation was BS. The weapon would simply stop firing. They didn't want to hear it. They also won't allow semi-auto handguns to be loaded with more than 5 rounds, no double taps or rapid fire because it disturbs others trying to concentrate. What a load of BS and a bunch of Range Nazi's! I never went back there again. I found a better indoor range where you can shoot up to .50 cal (no AP) and you can shoot however you want, to include full auto!
The other week the wife and I went to a public range. I had my new SBR in tow. After the first mag through the 10.5 my wife whispers to me, "Those guys are looking at you like you are some kind of terrorist." I replied, "No Baby, that's just envy!"
-RD62
Scattergun
06-26-08, 20:45
ARs are nothing. You want to make enemies at the range, try a .50BMG rifle. I just smile and fire away.
cavscout82nd
06-26-08, 20:50
After reading everyones response to my question; i think i'll take my AR deer hunting this year on public hunting grounds!
After reading everyones response to my question; i think i'll take my AR deer hunting this year on public hunting grounds!
Hell yea, My buddy just built a 6.8 to deer hunt with
The great thing about less restrictive environments is that a wider variety of folks and shooting are accepted. The bad thing about less restrictive environments is that a wider variety of folks and shooting are accepted. :D
Hell yea, My buddy just built a 6.8 to deer hunt with
I'm thinking of doing the same. Building a 6.8 upper for hunting.
-RD62
I'm going to be hunting with my 6.8 XCR this Fall. :)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b382/M38/xcr.jpg
we're fortunate that our range is where we do our police qualifications, so most of the shooters are used to some rather unusual "shooting" scenarios. Another plus is that the range doubles for cowboy shoots several times a year, and they will leave alot of their props set up. Speaks well of the members that the props aren't riddled by idiots. I will admit though there have been a couple times when i've been on the range and have been joined by some less then savory individuals who exhibit some very unsafe shooting styles and a cavalier attitude that is guarenteed to piss off nearly everyone.
as was pointed out, sometimes we are our own worst enemies.
the only way to reduce the friction when you face that situation, is through patience and education..............................though you might be tempted to educate them via the "2 X 4 to the forehead", just chaulk it up to inexperience.
good luck
edit - grammar fix
FlyAndFight
06-27-08, 11:16
If your AR has a nasty "compensator" and I'm in the next lane, you're gonna get that same look from me! :D
the bottom line, anybody who shoots at all WANTS to try out your rifle.
convert them to the dark side. :cool:
Deadcenter45
06-27-08, 20:59
the bottom line, anybody who shoots at all WANTS to try out your rifle.
convert them to the dark side. :cool:
Keep spreading the disease! :cool:
Alpha Sierra
06-27-08, 21:18
Was it him?
http://ts2.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1572082880849&id=d0c236d4ab35632519469bdf0792bd34
toddackerman
06-28-08, 08:16
I'm fortunate here in the Denver area to belong to a private club that has 5 combat ranges on the property, and is the host club for the Practical Shooting Association of Colorado (PSAC). All factions get along pretty well, but the Trap Shooters are the ones who have the most disdain for the Martial Arts type.
Those berms have been there for 30 years now, and are at the end of the property pretty much away from the formal 200 yd., 100yd. rifle ranges and the Trap Range which is on the other side of the road. The IPSC club is strong, and those combat ranges get used a lot by the members, so regardless of the "Looks"...those berms aren't going anywhere.
Carbineoholic
06-28-08, 08:35
Keep spreading the disease! :cool:
Works for me. The FUDDS love it.http://www.pic4ever.com/images/cowboypistol.gif I even supply the ammo.
My local public range is sans a range master. It is nothing short of suicidal to go there. People loading weapons while others down range, no barrel discipline, etc etc. The shotgun side is even worse. The shooters station is a small concrete semi circle. It's meant for one person at a time. It never goes that way. I was on the far left one day with a friend and someone came and set up to the far right. I figured they were just setting up. Next thing I know they are taking shots. I start packing up when I see a clay target fly over my head.. sure enough genius behind the gauge is tracking it right over top of us. The gentlemen were informed of their mistake :cool: and I never went back.
There is a good range about 1.5hrs from me with steel and ranges out to 600. I go there now. When I move to Tennessee I look forward to setting up my own course on my own property.
toddackerman
06-28-08, 13:35
Having your own range on your property is "Heaven".
We're our own worst enemy sometimes. Bullseye shooters don't want action pistol. Trap/skeet don't want anything else. Hunters don't want "assault rifles" or pistols. Some want loading restrictions, rounds per minute, square ranges, fixed positions, no drawing from holsters. Much frustration.
Disdainful looks. "Oh, you're one of the those."
We do it to ourselves, really, through various acts of assclownery. One fellow bumpfiring at the club can prompt a wide variety of encumberances.
At a retailer, I picked up ~2500 rounds of 55gr FMJ and JSP. A fellow in line behind me opined, "a lot of prairie dogs are going to fall this summer!" He couldn't believe I would shoot it in a long weekend at a defensive rifle class. Whatever would I want a class to learn THAT for. Ugh. I was born and raised in south central Wisconsin I cut my teeth shooting .22's moved on to trap, skeet, sporting clays, And when I bought my first SKS shortly after leaving the service in 89 I started noticing the strange looks then I bought a M1 Carbine and no one ever looked sideways at me for that rifle, same with the Mini 14 but as soon as I bought a AK47 all of a sudden I was shooting one of those guns that were going to destroy the second ammendment, then a AR came on the scene and if I brought them all to the range that I helped build I was watched like a hawk. It didnt matter that I had put untold hours into maintenance/improvements, helped run the trap league, singles and doubles, helped anytime there was a event I became one of those guys. All of a sudden I wasnt invited bird hunting any more, the property I deer hunted became unavailable. I blame it on the press over sensationalizing the dreadded Assault Rifles and portraying the owners of such deadly over powerfull weapons as social deviants one step away from slaughtering millions of innocent children. What can you do. I am a Police Officer now so if people ask questions I just tell them that, I will let anyone who wants to try any of the weapons I bring to the range do so and I do my best to inform them of what the true capabilities are. Proper information is our friend, Bump firing leaving trash at the ranges, breaking the posted rules at a range, leaving piles of Wolf brass scattered everywhere and a rude attitude toward other shooters is our enemy. I have seen it a hundred times. A old 4wd Bronco or Blazer backs up to a open shooting table and 4 guys decked out in fatigues & LBE's jump out and start unloading armloads of AR's or AK's and proceed to destroy target back stops, target stands ect bump firing mag after mag while some old grandpa is trying to spend a little quality time with a grandson or a father-son outing ruined by flying brass and 4 letter words. We have created a image for ourselves that we have to break to be accepted into the shooting community. And even if you are considerate and follow the rules some punk already soured them on anything that looks like a AR or AK. Oh and calling them Fudds doesnt help either.
After reading everyones response to my question; i think i'll take my AR deer hunting this year on public hunting grounds! Not legal in Wisconsin unless it's a 6.5 or 6.8 or a AR10 then you are limited to a 5 round mag. What area are you in? I used to run in the Mazomanie, Sauk City area and have shot at just about every range from Coon Valley to Beloit If you are anywhere close to the Madison area I can probably hook you up with a AR friendly range.
You're looking at this as a problem....turn it into an opportunity.
Always getting on Mrs Rembrandt for similar assumptions. For some reason many women tend to read emotions and intent based purely on how someone looked at them. Your analysis of how other shooters looked at you and your black rifle may or may not be justified. Before accepting that as a fact, you should introduce yourself and strike up a friendship. Never met a person that couldn't handle a few more friends.
this is good advice i think. when you see someone with a hard look on their face it could be that they are in pain.:cool:
decodeddiesel
06-28-08, 17:36
I'm fortunate here in the Denver area to belong to a private club that has 5 combat ranges on the property, and is the host club for the Practical Shooting Association of Colorado (PSAC). All factions get along pretty well, but the Trap Shooters are the ones who have the most disdain for the Martial Arts type.
Whoa, i'm in Denver what range is this?! PM me!
Back a few years ago, when I lived in a city, I used to occasionally shoot at a public range that wasn't too far from where I lived. One time I was there shooting an M4-gery with my wife(a rare occurance). There was another shooter there with a bolt action, scoped hunting rifle. Every once in awhile I'd see him glaring at us out of the corner of my eye. I just ignored him for the most part. Finally, he gets up and walks over to me and starts talking. Here's how the conversation went:
Him:"Those things should all be banned!"
Me:"Huh?"
Him:"They're no good for anything but killing people. They're inaccurate, you can't use 'em to hunt with, so what good are they!?"
Me:"I don't know what you are talking about. They are not inaccurate, just check my target, and I can hunt with it if I choose to."
Him:"Whatever, they should be banned."
Me:"Well, if you let them ban what I own, they will come after yours next. That rifle you're shooting, it's a high powered sniper rifle in the minds of the antis. Don't you worry, they'll come after all guns eventually if we let them."
Him:"Whatever, that'll never happen. They just want to ban those assault weapons 'cause they're no good for hunting."
My Wife:"The 2nd Amend. isn't about hunting!" (This comment by my wife made me so proud. You see, she's not really into shooting, she rarely goes shooting with me, but even she understands the true meaning of the 2nd Amend.)
The guy walked away in a huff, packed up his gear, and left after that. That was the only time I've ever had that happen to me. All the other times I've been shooting with a black rifle at a public range have either been uneventful, or I had a positive experience with other gun owners who were curious about my rifle.
Back a few years ago, when I lived in a city, I used to occasionally shoot at a public range that wasn't too far from where I lived. One time I was there shooting an M4-gery with my wife(a rare occurance). There was another shooter there with a bolt action, scoped hunting rifle. Every once in awhile I'd see him glaring at us out of the corner of my eye. I just ignored him for the most part. Finally, he gets up and walks over to me and starts talking. Here's how the conversation went:
Him:"Those things should all be banned!"
Me:"Huh?"
Him:"They're no good for anything but killing people. They're inaccurate, you can't use 'em to hunt with, so what good are they!?"
Me:"I don't know what you are talking about. They are not inaccurate, just check my target, and I can hunt with it if I choose to."
Him:"Whatever, they should be banned."
Me:"Well, if you let them ban what I own, they will come after yours next. That rifle you're shooting, it's a high powered sniper rifle in the minds of the antis. Don't you worry, they'll come after all guns eventually if we let them."
Him:"Whatever, that'll never happen. They just want to ban those assault weapons 'cause they're no good for hunting."
My Wife:"The 2nd Amend. isn't about hunting!" (This comment by my wife made me so proud. You see, she's not really into shooting, she rarely goes shooting with me, but even she understands the true meaning of the 2nd Amend.)
The guy walked away in a huff, packed up his gear, and left after that. That was the only time I've ever had that happen to me. All the other times I've been shooting with a black rifle at a public range have either been uneventful, or I had a positive experience with other gun owners who were curious about my rifle.
You should have told him Stupid People should be banned:D
I always we offer folks to fire my "evil" weapons. A nice and friendly "how you doing?" to odd looking folks tends to put them on the defensive. It seems the looks disdain come from the old fudds and the looks of "can I shoot that" come from the yonger. I GET LOTS OF QUESTIONS!
Defiantely can echo the same experiences at my private outdoor "conservation" range. Over the years, I think the military type rifles have exceeded the old bold action, blackpowder types ect. And we are 15 minutes outside of the Washington DC capital beltway.
Had a great experience the other day at an indoor range that allows fullauto - let a first time shooter fire an Uzi - definate full auto grin there!
You think its hard to deal with gun owners who have a poor opinion of the evil assault rifles, how about it with "machine guns" that nobody in the world should need...
Heavy Metal
06-28-08, 20:40
Back a few years ago, when I lived in a city, I used to occasionally shoot at a public range that wasn't too far from where I lived. One time I was there shooting an M4-gery with my wife(a rare occurance). There was another shooter there with a bolt action, scoped hunting rifle. Every once in awhile I'd see him glaring at us out of the corner of my eye. I just ignored him for the most part. Finally, he gets up and walks over to me and starts talking. Here's how the conversation went:
Him:"Those things should all be banned!"
Me:"Huh?"
Him:"They're no good for anything but killing people. They're inaccurate, you can't use 'em to hunt with, so what good are they!?"
My pre-canned response tirade:
Hunting ought to be banned! It's nothing but a blood-sport to create psychotic killers! Lee Harvey Oswald was a hunter! That guy in the Texas tower was a hunter! John Hinkley was a hunter! The guy who shot Jerry Garcia was a hunter! The guy who killed Andy Kaufman was a hunter! Nobody needs to hunt! We can buy food in a supermarket!
Alpha Sierra
06-28-08, 20:46
My pre-canned response tirade:
Hunting ought to be banned! It's nothing but a blood-sport to create psychotic killers! Lee Harvey Oswald was a hunter! That guy in the Texas tower was a hunter! John Hinkley was a hunter! The guy who shot Jerry Garcia was a hunter! The guy who killed Andy Kaufman was a hunter! Nobody needs to hunt! We can buy food in a supermarket!
+1 (and I hunt....:D )
Also, if the guy states that my kind of firearm should be banned, I would ask him if instead of waiting for the ban would he like to try to take it away from me. RFN. :mad:
My pre-canned response tirade:
Hunting ought to be banned! It's nothing but a blood-sport to create psychotic killers! Lee Harvey Oswald was a hunter! That guy in the Texas tower was a hunter! John Hinkley was a hunter! The guy who shot Jerry Garcia was a hunter! The guy who killed Andy Kaufman was a hunter! Nobody needs to hunt! We can buy food in a supermarket!
I like that! I'll have to remember to use it if I'm ever in a situation like that again.
white spaniard
06-28-08, 21:46
Hi everyone I have been taking my wife shooting the last several weeks she is getting her Conceal carry license, dumbass kid in next booth points gun toward my wife and fires and immediately turns gun at his target, range officer immediately calls a cease fire and excorts kid and his father off the firing line and he asks him what the hell he was thinking and his response was " I saw the movie Wanted and they bent bullets around corners"??? I was ready to kick the sh*t out of him and his father.:mad:
DAMN, I don't know what to say:eek:
Only that this would be that kid and father:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/m60g/frescas_do_no_wrong_idf.jpg
The other week the wife and I went to a public range. I had my new SBR in tow. After the first mag through the 10.5 my wife whispers to me, "Those guys are looking at you like you are some kind of terrorist." I replied, "No Baby, that's just envy!"
Firing a rifle round out of barrel that short is extremely loud. That's probably what annoyed them.
cavscout82nd
06-29-08, 09:16
Not legal in Wisconsin unless it's a 6.5 or 6.8 or a AR10 then you are limited to a 5 round mag. What area are you in? I used to run in the Mazomanie, Sauk City area and have shot at just about every range from Coon Valley to Beloit If you are anywhere close to the Madison area I can probably hook you up with a AR friendly range.
I shoot at the Stoughton Conservation Club. All and all a good group of folks. they do alot of good works on behalf of the community and conservation causes. I will probably keep my membership their for those reasons, however having another place to shoot AR's and AK's without the evil eye would be nice..
Folks, we stand a better chance of keeping our gun rights if we stick together. I know that there are Fudds out there that cannot be reasoned with at all, but the majority can be. Instead of taking the Us vs Them attitude, try to convert them. I personally have noticed more interest in "tactical type firearms" from onlookers in the past 2 years than resentment for having it at the range. I think people of all walks of life see the writing on the wall so to speak with our country & world in the shape that it is in, and I feel more people are taking personal security and self defense to heart. Taking the time to answer a few questions and offer them to shoot may prove invaluable to you later on, especially if you make new friends while doing it.
Folks, we stand a better chance of keeping our gun rights if we stick together. I know that there are Fudds out there that cannot be reasoned with at all, but the majority can be. Instead of taking the Us vs Them attitude, try to convert them. I personally have noticed more interest in "tactical type firearms" from onlookers in the past 2 years than resentment for having it at the range. I think people of all walks of life see the writing on the wall so to speak with our country & world in the shape that it is in, and I feel more people are taking personal security and self defense to heart. Taking the time to answer a few questions and offer them to shoot may prove invaluable to you later on, especially if you make new friends while doing it.
Good post.
Let's also try making sure that we're not dressed like ninjas, GI-Joe or PMC wannabes, aren't bumpfiring our supply of ammo, are cleaning up after ourselves, keeping safety a priority, and are displaying good range ettiquette.
decodeddiesel
06-29-08, 20:55
Hi everyone I have been taking my wife shooting the last several weeks she is getting her Conceal carry license, dumbass kid in next booth points gun toward my wife and fires and immediately turns gun at his target, range officer immediately calls a cease fire and excorts kid and his father off the firing line and he asks him what the hell he was thinking and his response was " I saw the movie Wanted and they bent bullets around corners"??? I was ready to kick the sh*t out of him and his father.:mad:
Jesus Christ! I would have called the police.
There's some good advice in here.
As AR shooters, like it or not, when we shoot we are ambassadors for an activity that is opposed by many in state legislatures and in DC. Anything we can do to promote unity among shooters can help our cause, and a smile and friendly "how ya doin?" costs nothing.
The range where I shoot typically has someone shooting an AR or AK when I show up; I haven't noticed any hostility. Still, I'm happy to talk to folks about my ARs or other guns, and I often talk to other folks about their guns.
Recently, there were some folks at the range with a 1887 Winchester lever action 10-gauge shotgun with black powder shells. Everyone who stopped to chat was encouraged to fire it (I did), and I'm not sure I ever saw the owners even fire it themselves. Now, that wouldn't make for a productive tactical training session, but folks like that are good for the shooting community.
Also, I make sure to say "Hi, how ya doin" to women and minorities at the range. Our future as gun owners is not helped by the stereotypical image of gun owners as only redneck white men. When women and minorities do show up, I want them to know that I welcome them in the shooting community.
United we stand...
decodeddiesel
06-30-08, 09:25
Good post.
Let's also try making sure that we're not dressed like ninjas, GI-Joe or PMC wannabes, aren't bumpfiring our supply of ammo, are cleaning up after ourselves, keeping safety a priority, and are displaying good range etiquette.
That is good advise. Honestly with maybe one or 2 exceptions most of the black rifle shooters I see are very responsible and safe, actually more so than a number of the FUDDs I see. Case in point, at one range I frequent you must bring your rifles to the firing line cased, then open it and clear it in front of the RSO. I don't know how many times I've seen some FUDD walk up to the firing line with his 30-06 elk rifle in a case, giving me dirty looks, then opens it up and pulls back his bolt and viola a fresh live round pops out! It happens so much it's alarming.
Firing a rifle round out of barrel that short is extremely loud. That's probably what annoyed them.
Possible, but they were bump firing an AK and an AR, so I figured not.
If it had been grandpa and junior or dad and junior, I would have located to the far end of the range (which I already was) and if they looked distressed I would have inquired if it bothered them, and stuck to the 16" if it did.
-RD62
CarlosDJackal
06-30-08, 17:18
Ignore the sheeple and enjoy yourself (while looking out for unsafe handling). In my club I am in the process of starting a "Black Rifle Group" which caters to the type of people who visit these boards and attends Tactical Carbine and Pistol Courses. All I'm waiting on is for the club Board of Directors to vote on whether or not they should approve it.
I found out recently that there are quite a few members of the club who would like to learn the stuff we learn from some of the classes we take. It's also good to share this type of information skills and practice some of the skills we learned by those who do.
Sometimes, we are our own worse enemy. From what I've seen, shotgunners are the worst!! They seem to take the approach that if THEY don't have a "use" for it, it should be banned.
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