View Full Version : Is it bad juju to carry like this? (C&L folks, in here.)
I wasn't really sure where to ask this, but here goes...
Do you think it's bad juju to carry a 1911/HK/Sig SAO/FN Tact/etc in condition one, in a Kydex holster that has no "sweat guard/body shield?" Meaning, that part if the Kydex that sits against your side. My concern is, that the safety is not 'protected' by the holster and could accidently become pushed down and off by your body while moving around. And I am not talk about walking around WalMart, I mean in an advanced three day class type of setting. It just seems to me that when running around, rolling around, doing urban prone, going in and out of vehicles, etc that your body may contort in a way that disengages the safety.
I would assume not since I've seen photos and configurations from reputable makers that offer them without said shield. Maybe I am over thinking it but I have Ravens for my 1911 and my USPs that are setup for C&L and both have the shield to 'protect' the safety lever.
My Ravens have the shield, and you can see where the lever sits while up and can basically not be pushed down on accident, but what if it wasn't there...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d135/Talnz167/P1070004_zpsb48d1d45.jpg
...kind of like this.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d135/Talnz167/nighthawk3_zpsa32f0179.jpg
I don't know, but I do know this: another problem is salty sweat getting into the little detent and its spring, which control the safety lever. I saw one of these freeze up from that very cause. It was a Colt 1911 in .38 Super, carried against skin in hot humid SE Tejas. No fun if you have to draw fast and hit the safety lever to save your life. If you do run your 1911 against bare sweaty skin, drip some CLP into that detent and its passage every day.
MountainRaven
12-06-14, 22:30
No.
The gun is in a holster. Unless you have a particularly poorly designed holster or one that's somehow damaged, the gun is not magically going to go off in your holster if the safety somehow gets turned off. Which is possible and probable with an ambi-safety, but pretty improbable with a single-side safety that's pressed against your body.
So long as the gun goes in the holster with the safety on, I wouldn't worry about anything happening if the safety somehow comes off. And if you notice the safety come off, I'd just flick the safety back on. And it's not going to happen if you don't have an ambi-safety in the first place (which is why some guys prefer the single-side safety).
Ned Christiansen
12-06-14, 23:01
I have a strong preference for no sweat guard and have had several "specials" done over the years to remove it, going so far as to send a Nossar holster back to Peru to have it done. I'd go so far as to say I can't stand them. I find them a big impediment to a good draw and for me at least, no upside. With a decently stiff detent on the 1911 safety, I mean having it at a 6-8 pound effort and not all floppy and free, there's no issue with the safety coming off-- and if it did there ought to still be no issue unless one is created. I guess I could say if the safety came off chronically it's no worse than carrying a Glock in the same manner and I'd have no qualms with doing that.
I always thought going without a sweat guard was a terrible idea when I was shopping for a kydex holster. Then I noticed my leather Summer Special-style holster has no sweat guard and has never caused an issue. I was later given a kydex holster as a gift that also lacked a sweat guard, and I've used that holster to shoot competition all year with nary a problem concerning being sweat guard-less. YMMV
EasyRhino72
12-07-14, 06:20
Not a fan of it but if it works for you, have at it. I came across a kydex holster about a year ago that(must have been) molded wrong.......it would actually disengage the safety when you holstered a condition 1 1911. That was a little shocking. Didn't end up buying that one.
I know it can be easily fixed but kind of makes you wonder about the manufacturer.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My daily carry holster is an open top Galco that does not have a sweat guard. I have never had a problem with the safety getting switched off.
I dont think it's bad juju to not have it but you can have a very small guard that captures just a hair of the safety to keep it in place without a lot of material to comprise the grip during your draw.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/8356d4c91629efb06c6805bfc114de2b.jpg
Most modern guns have a drop safety or firing pin block to prevent negligent discharge in the holster. If your safety is disengaged doing cartwheels and back flips you'll only notice it after you have drawn and attempted to disengage it. Shouldn't be any less safe than carrying a glock condition 1.
Personally, I'm not that devoted to either camp, but I prefer for my CCW 1911 holsters to cover the safety. I've also found that WELL DESIGNED holsters have very little impediment to my draw and due to the nature of kydex, the end user can make just about any minor adjustments they wish. I had to do some trimming/relieving on my Comp-Tac to get it how I wanted it.
Chances of a AD/ND are exceedingly rare for a gun sitting in a well fitting kydex holster, but when I have a powerful weapon loaded with the most effective ammunition I can find in close proximity to my vitals, I'm not opposed to layering safety precautions, especially when I don't find them to be an impediment.
Eurodriver
12-07-14, 17:57
I have shot a few 1911s. That is about my extent of knowledge with the design.
So I ask this from that limited perspective and I am not baiting: I know Glocks and other striker fired pistols don't "cock" the firing pin until the trigger is pulled to the rear. For a SA pistol, this the hammer spring is already under tension when cocked and the trigger simply engages the sear that allows tha hammer to fall.
Given what Ned said above, it is unlikely the safety would be disengaged by carrying without a sweat guard. But let's assume for a second that the safety did flip down or it was never switched on in the first place. Is a 1911 less safe in Condition 1 minus the safety than a Glock? It seems to me, by the inherent design and especially with a lighter trigger, the answer is yes?
Personally, I'm not that devoted to either camp, but I prefer for my CCW 1911 holsters to cover the safety. I've also found that WELL DESIGNED holsters have very little impediment to my draw and due to the nature of kydex, the end user can make just about any minor adjustments they wish. I had to do some trimming/relieving on my Comp-Tac to get it how I wanted it.
Chances of a AD/ND are exceedingly for a gun sitting in a well fitting kydex holster, but when I have a powerful weapon loaded with the most effective ammunition I can find in close proximity to my vitals, I'm not opposed to layering safety precautions, especially when I don't find them to be an impediment.
This is kind of what I was thinking as well. All of my Kydex holsters (Raven) have the shield. Most of the time I have my undershirt tucked in, and having that helps keep the shirt out of the way. In the summer, I can carry a G27 OWB in a Raven with a t-shirt untucked, and in that case I like the shield because I can grab my shirt and stuff it behind the shield to get it out of the way if I have to.
Anyway, I am derailing my own topic. I am not worried about the gun going off on is own. If the gun is designed to be carried with a safety on, and I put away with the safety on, I don't want it to be any different when I draw.
The whole reason I asked this question is because I am thinking about buying a Sig 226 SAO (http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p226-elite-sao.aspx) and using it in some classes, but am having a hard time finding a holster. I like Ravens a lot and have been running them basically exclusively for years, but they don't make a holster for the SAO. So I was thinking about buying a regular 226 holster with the guard and trying to modify it myself, or buying a 226 holster sans body shield/guard. That would leave the safety "exposed."
Anyway, that's why I am asking.
Not entirely sure how the current discussion is a digression, but to answer your question directly, if you don't have any concerns about an exposed safety leading to an unintentional discharge, then I don't see why there would be any issue buying a holster that leaves the safety exposed or modifying one to leave the safety exposed. This is, of course, assuming you're not compromising the fit and retention of the holster (which trimming material around the sweat guard area shouldn't have any effect on).
I cut the sweatshield off my Raven about three years ago. I've done a lot of four wheeler riding, and a lot of range work with a 1911 holstered Cond 1 and have never found the safety off when I drew it.
Even if it was, it's not a big deal.
Letzgoracin301
12-07-14, 20:37
The only time I had problems finding the safety disengaged on my 1911. is when I carried it in a thumb break desantis. When ever I sat down it would click the safety off. Threw that holster in the back of the closet and haven't had a problem since.
I Love Sweat Guards. If It Is Cut Right It Wont Affect Your Draw At All. As For You Question....I Would Have No Problem Carrying In CoN 1 With A 1911 And No Swaet Guard. As An Instructor I Always Tell People That Your Safety Is Between Your ears.
It will leave a mark on your side
Combat_Diver
12-08-14, 05:22
Have carried a 1911 cocked and locked for several decades on and off without any sweat shield on my IWB/OWB holsters. Never had the safety get swapped off. Carrying a cocked/locked on my hip here in Astan right now. Body armor never swapped it off either.
CD
Echoing other statements; the holsters trigger protection is what keeps the gun from getting unintentionally discharged on your hip. The manual safety is to reduce unintentional discharge while the gun is in your hands.
I do prefer a sweat guard as I find it more comfortable and easier to work with, but I don't see the lack of one being a safety issue on any appropriate holster with a quality handgun.
I have seen or had safety go off on both exposed no sweat guard holsters and eve at times with some with them, though I can not recall right now if they were ambi or not. I do not see a sweat guard inhibiting my draw ( maybe it does for some speed demon out there but that is not me) you have a firing pin spring grip safety and covered trigger all preventing a discharge plus in some guns a series 80 or Swartz type mechanism also preventing it. Bounce around enough or brush against something just the right way and it will happen.
I like the sweat guard on mine because I've found my shirts don't get trapped betwen the gun (Glock, PPQ) and holster. Never noticed any impediment to the draw stroke.
Galco Royal Guard has been the gold standard for IWB 1911 holsters for decades.......no sweat guard and nobody complained.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Being left handed, my safety is always "exposed".
LightningFast
12-11-14, 12:37
Galco... has been the gold standard
Definitely not
I have been carrying a 1911 for a lot of years and have not had the thumb safety sweep off unless I did it intentionally. I did have the outside thumb safety break off while fighting with a suspect on a concrete surface, but the safety remained in the safe position.
If the safety is swept off for any reason while you are carrying, jogging, lugging furniture, etc., you still have the grip safety in play. In the extreme unlikelihood the thumb and grip safety both fail, the holster is still covering the trigger.
The 1911 is a whole lot safer than most realize.
I would concern myself with retention, comfort and body oils/perspiration attacking the metal when selecting a good holster. You may also want to consider if the holster will protect you if you fall on your weapon side. It's happened to me and it can be pretty painful.
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