View Full Version : ACOG questions? Talk me out or into buying one!!
equilibrium
12-07-14, 16:40
I have a love/hate relationship with the ACOG(used one while in the Marine Corps). Today I was at the LGS and decided to go ahead and play with the ACOG units. I currently run an Aimpoint Comp M2 and love it but the ACOG brought back memories. Other than the eye relief which is to some crappy I still have a soft spot for them after looking through it. I am thinking about selling my M&P15 complete upper since it is just collecting dust to help fund an ACOG purchase. Folks that run ACOG's in the civilian world is it really worth the purchase? I am completely satisfied with the Aimpoint but damn I have this itch for the ACOG. Just not sure of its practicality outside of the military.
Eurodriver
12-07-14, 18:07
Talk you out of it? Easy. As you said, the eye relief is garbage. You have to be perfectly in the eye box for proper eye relief, and this requires adjusting the stock all the time. Standing? Needs to be shorter. At the bench? Needs to be longer. Prone? Shorter. Armor? Shorter. Kneeling? Longer. Total garbage and if Trijicon could fix the TA31 series by giving it more generous eye relief they would still have a real winner...sort of.
You still suffer from wash out if in a dark area and sighting into a bright area. Take an ACOG outside with you at night and aim it inside a house with blinds open (preferably your own, and not attached to a rifle). You'll notice the reticle is now completely black and difficult to pick up.
Weight? Come on bro, the TA31RCOM4 is what? 1lb? On a fixed 4x optic? That's ridiculous. The only thing more ridiculous than the weight is the cost. $1500 can buy you three used Aimpoint T1s. Or to look at it better, you could have a lighter, more practical setup for less money if instead of buying a TA31RCOM4 you bought an Aimpoint T1 and a Magnifier...
With that said, as a fellow Marine, I too love the ACOG and carry it on my favorite rifle. I have learned to mitigate its faults (as have you) and there is certainly no question itwill never ever let you down. It might weigh more than Rosie O'Donnell, take longer to acquire targets inside of 50 yards, and not get much love but it is still a solid optic and if you've got the bug for it, the coin, and use it properly you won't be disappointed.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_1155_zps4128037a.jpg
equilibrium
12-07-14, 18:47
I hear you brother. You nailed it with the eye relief. I was constantly changing my cheek weld when moving from 300-500. I have become used to it and the only reason I have the itch is because I can acquire a "retritiumed" used one for $700. That is the only reason I am contemplating the purchase.
Eurodriver
12-07-14, 19:10
$700?!?
If you don't buy it, I will.
equilibrium
12-07-14, 19:25
Exactly brother!! BTW Where are you stationed?
Considering they're more expensive than getting a TR24T, Aimpoint H1, and mounts for both at MSRP, the performance isn't exactly mindblowing.
Eye relief IS garbage on the TA31/TA01, and getting a good field of view is basically the only tradeoff. This is the optic that made me love the UBR, but that's the only stock system that seems to work well with an optic that is low, picky about having eye relief, and has fine enough telescoping adjustments to work well in standing, sitting, and prone. Smartly applied electrical tape to 2/3 of the fiberoptic setup actually fixes the brightness issue
Personally, I run those things really fast up close (on a clean Table-III shoot, I was still finishing up strings of fire faster than the idiots who sounded like they were just point shooting and blasting), and despite that I'm still convinced there are truly superior options if you're not interested in having an M4 clone build (I have one with an M4A1 SOCOM profile barrel and TA31RCO-M4). I really like that rifle even though it's a 10lb boat anchor (UBR, TA31, A1 barrel, M4RAS) loaded; that said I have a much simpler rifle (DD V5 LW) running a TR24RT optic that does all those same things, and a few critical ones a lot better at a complete weight of 8.5 lb loaded (better up close, longer handguard means better light mounting, points better due to lighter overall weight), so a lot of my dismissal of the ACOG as a platform is related to that difference in functionality of complete weapon systems.
It's a perfect military optic for riflemen because it means having the ability to identify objects at distance and make solid hits at range, it has pretty gruntproof dual illumination, and critically it's as tough as the rifle it's mounted on, which is why the DoD spends as much on those as they do on the M16s they live on.
equilibrium
12-07-14, 20:26
I agree with you completely man but I was able to qualify expert with the ACOG. That includes the CQB qual with flying colors(but they do say that if you fail that portion you have no buddies), although I still didnt do bad at all within 25 meters. Although I have to admit that in boot camp with iron sights I performed better. It may have been because I was scared sh!tless to not perform well, IDK.
Does it have to be either, or?
If you want one, buy it. If you don't like it, sell it and get something else.
I had an extra M4A1 build sitting in the safe when I saw a new TA01NSN in sniper grey on Amazon selling for $750. It now sits on that rifle. Are there better options, sure. But I wanted an ACOG. And if I get tired of it, I'll probably sell it and get close to my money back out.
You didn't mention the model, but Amazon currently has the TA01NSN for a pretty good price ($859).
http://www.amazon.com/Trijicon-Acog-M4A1-Flat-Adapt/dp/B0002IOABA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418005759&sr=8-1&keywords=acog+ta01nsn
equilibrium
12-07-14, 20:35
The price is $700 which is not bad at all. The reason is has to be either or is because I do not have a need for more than one Ar at this time. I would much have one AR that I practice with constantly and have muscle memory developed with than have 12 that have no memory development chemistry with my body.
equilibrium
12-07-14, 20:37
If you want one, buy it. If you don't like it, sell it and get something else.
I had an extra M4A1 build sitting in the safe when I saw a new TA01NSN in sniper grey on Amazon selling for $750. It now sits on that rifle. Are there better options, sure. But I wanted an ACOG. And if I get tired of it, I'll probably sell it and get close to my money back out.
You didn't mention the model, but Amazon currently has the TA01NSN for a pretty good price.
http://www.amazon.com/Trijicon-Acog-M4A1-Flat-Adapt/dp/B0002IOABA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418005759&sr=8-1&keywords=acog+ta01nsn
Thanks for the link. That is an excellent link and price for the optic. Appreciate it!!
Non Mil-Civ
The wife unit just liberated one of mine for her Colt, against my consent... Eurodriver, as well as others, highlighted pros/cons of them and couldn't agree more. After running a NF-NXS (1-4) for a while, I’ll never go back to an ACOG... I think as a civ, the flexibility of a quality variable is tuff to beat. And, so is the price of the unit you were looking at:)
equilibrium
12-09-14, 17:30
Non Mil-Civ
The wife unit just liberated one of mine for her Colt, against my consent... Eurodriver, as well as others, highlighted pros/cons of them and couldn't agree more. After running a NF-NXS (1-4) for a while, I’ll never go back to an ACOG... I think as a civ, the flexibility of a quality variable is tuff to beat. And, so is the price of the unit you were looking at:)
I already made the purchase and I am excited to shoot one of my own. The other was on a government rental :). I hope I still have some of the muscle memory from not too long ago. I am sure the fundamentals are still going to be there with the ACOG. I really want to attempt this both eyes open thing some people speak of with the ACOG. I used to be very quick at the 25m range and moving inward with the ACOG, although I never tried this one eye open deal.
I'm sure your muscle memory will snap in... I have a TA01 and a TA31RMR and the latter is definitely GTG on the both eyes open piece. The TA01 FOR ME, just never seemed to agree with both eyes open. Congrats on your purchase!
equilibrium
12-09-14, 17:50
I'm sure your muscle memory will snap in... I have a TA01 and a TA31RMR and the latter is definitely GTG on the both eyes open piece. The TA01 FOR ME, just never seemed to agree with both eyes open. Congrats on your purchase!
Thanks!! I just put a good amount of stuff up on the EE to help offset the wife factor. I usually hit her with the "well yaaa I spent 700 but sold X so I only actually spent X!!!"
Is there any tricks to the one eye open on the TA31 or is it just a matter of practice?
Yepper, time behind it...
It really is time behind it - you can also make some gains with the ACOG covered up (running it as a true occluded eye gunsight) for point shooting up close, the rest of it is just spending time dry firing at targets of various ranges so that you spend more time transitioning between resolved images in your head, and you may hit a point where you can choose focus modality at will (lining up the bright red stuff on an in-focus image through the non-optic eye for quick shooting, being able to make quick adjustments through the optic eye to put the reticle exactly on target while still being partially focused on non-optic image, and finally being able to focus/resolve through the optic while still having usable SA from the non-optic side. That's the closest to a trick there is, although it does help to do some timed stuff at 7yds and really focus on that first setup (basically running it like an OEG) doing 2s single shot center of mass stuff to see that you really are able to make good hits in a hurry without actually leaning on getting the optic side in focus.
In my opinion, if you get to shoot a lot at ranges from 200 to 600 yard or more, the ACOG is a great optic. The eye relief has never bothered me enough to make mention of it.
Doc Safari
12-10-14, 14:48
Don't the TA33 and TA11 both have pretty good eye relief?
Why not use one of those?
sevenhelmet
12-10-14, 15:27
I have a TA31 here, and I'm glad I have it. I decided to get one after I looked through a similar ACOG at a gunshow a long time ago. Pros and cons are already stated, but the simplicity, toughness, and crisp optics sold it for me. The tight design eye window is annoying, but doesn't make me regret my decision.
In my opinion, if you get to shoot a lot at ranges from 200 to 600 yard or more, the ACOG is a great optic. The eye relief has never bothered me enough to make mention of it.
I'd agree that's the range it shines at - in 200-400m use that field of view and sharp optics are seriously impressive, not to mention functional. I can make hits on a BMOD all day at 547yd, and the TA31 makes it easy... but the particular way I run the thing when wearing eyepro I'll wind up jamming the cheap ICE or other lame eye protection into the bridge of my nose so hard I wind up cutting it open and spraying blood into my eye - didn't drop a shot despite this, but it is absolutely possible to run the optic well while still having it be needlessly physically painful to do so.
Just not sure of its practicality outside of the military.
I will make it simple: if you think your AR has a practicality outside of military, so is ACOG.
I have 4 of them and they are the best !
Just get a ta33. Fixes the three drawbacks of of the ta31 with not many (if any) drawbacks. It's lighter, cheaper, with about 9000% better eye relief.
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The TA33 FOV is not so great. When I shoot with one, it is like shooting through a paper tube at 3x. I prefer the TA31 for the greater FOV but the TA33 is better for everything els .
The TA33 FOV is not so great. When I shoot with one, it is like shooting through a paper tube at 3x. I prefer the TA31 for the greater FOV but the TA33 is better for everything els .Yeah I guess, if you're trying to find targets through the optic. I myself usually find the targets over the optic then acquire it through the acog. YMMV
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Chatterbox
12-12-14, 02:01
If your life doesn't depend on it, PA 4x sight will fill 90 percent of your requirements at a quarter of the price.
I have one TA31TRD. After owning one for 5 years I cant say enough good things about it. I am not MIL or LE, but I'll be damned if I don't trust my primary rifle to carry it. I personally love having the mini red dot on top, and then the instant 4x magnification when I need it. I have tried the TA11 and would love to have a few for my other rifles, simply for the better eye relief. I have 3 Vortex optics and 1 PA red dot that I run on other rifles. I only trust the ACOG to be with me on my GTG. I regret not buying more when I had the chance.
txfilmmaker
12-27-14, 21:37
Huge giveaway Monday! ACOG in the giveaway. www.gunwatcher.com/c/2310
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Also a Marine, and nostalgia aside, I love the ACOG. I have owned five I think, and currently own two, with plans for a third.
You are used to the TA31 and if the eye relief gets to you that much, check out the TA33 (excellent eye relief, best all around ACOG, excels in close range) or TA11 (great FOV and eye relief, but heavy).
ACOGs are absolutely worth it.
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