View Full Version : What would you do over in your first bolt gun build?
Eurodriver
12-07-14, 19:07
Background: I have owned a Rem700 PSS. I started with a Bushnell 3200 10x42 and unfortunately got bit by the "modify everything" internet bug. I actually spent more time and money upgrading it than shooting it. New scope, trigger, bedded action, etc. then I sold it because...yep, I never shot it. I have professional marksmanship training and am no stranger to the fundamentals of shooting.
I have a limited budget and want to get into the 308 bolt gun world.
My requirements are as follows:
-At least a 10x scope that holds zero and has repeatable reliable adjustments
-<20" barrel Threaded 5/8x24*
-Decent trigger out of the box
-Decent stock out of the box
I'm not looking to win BR competitions with this, nor am I going to be in harms way with it. It will strictly be a range toy. I want a solid 1.5 MOA out to 600 yards. I will do my part. I have a budget of $1500 but I'd like to be less than $1250 as I do not reload and would need to buy quite a bit of match ammo.
* I prefer a threaded barrel because I have a 30cal suppressor and would like the ability to attach it assuming there is no serious accuracy loss because of it. It is not an absolute requirement, but is pretty close.
I have looked at the 16.5" and 20" Rem700s which can be had locally for $700 OTD. They bth have threaded barrels but I have reservations about the stock and trigger. Mainly, my 2009 era Rem700 had a garbage XMark trigger and I don't want to spend $250 on another Timney.
Thoughts? It's hard to spend any time searching these things because 99% of the info out there is "Buy the R700. Toss the stock and trigger. Send it to xxx and have him accurize it for $2000"
What have you learned in your pursuit of range fun? Drop all the knowledge you feel pertinent - I'm absorbing it like a sponge
Steel head
12-07-14, 19:29
I'd do a XLR element instead of the Choat tactical, Element was introduced after I bult it.
extractor23
12-08-14, 16:42
With that budget you have a lot of requirements. It may not be realistic at that price. It looks to me like you have already found probably your number one option in the 16.5 or 20" Remington. You have reservations about the stock and trigger. I don't know where you could jump to at your budget and get exactly what you want? Something with a fancier stock or better trigger is going to be more $$.
If i was going to build a budget gun today that i thought could outshoot me for awhile. I would get a savage and put a SWFA SS Fix 10x on top of it with quality rings. I would get some foam and 100mph tape and add to the stock until i got my desired cheek weld. I think that is a budget setup that will shoot extremely well for the price. I don't know if savage offers a threaded barrel. You have have to get some work done to get your suppressor on.
Have you considered the 6.5mm creedmore at all. I own 2 .308's and am about to get my custom gun rebarreled to 6.5mm creed. Lower recoil and better ballistics than the .308. I think we will see the .308 become like the .30-06 as the military moves towards the .300 win mag for their long range guys. It will always be around and be a work horse but i think its popularity will wane a lot in the next 5-10 years.
The 6.5 Creedmore came up in another thread too. No one seemed to know about barrel life. I ask because the 6.5 284 is supposed to be a barrel burner... but it's a different animal than the creedmore.
As far as What would I do if I did it all over? Get the Timney right away, and get a Nightforce right away. Take it in the nuts right out of the gate, and do it right. I'd probably just buy the 5R SS 20" threaded, because you can keep the stock if you just get it skim bedded.
With that budget, a Tikka CTR. In my opinion, unless you want a particular set up, the out of the box AI AT if you have the budget. I've done the basic 700's-also rammed my head into a brick wall before without knowing any better. Done one custom 700, it's gone. The one thing you really don't get back is labor, maybe limited if someone important built it. Another option is a FN PBR, PBR XP or TSR, step up a tad and get into the SPR series, all will be great for out of the box. I took the PBR XP and had GAP do a custom build. Future plans are a CTR, maybe with a XLR Element and a AI AT with different barrels. Do a search on the FN SPR line or if wanting a tad lighter stick, stock with the features--Tikka CTR-plenty of threads on the Tikka's on SnipersHide and elsewhere.
Just do yourself a favor-look at he features you want and write down numbers-do the math to add a trigger, bedding, possibly have it threaded --or fixed, upgrade the stock, bottom metal, etc. Now that $650-700 rem 700 isn't such a good deal.
The 6.5 Creedmore came up in another thread too. No one seemed to know about barrel life. I ask because the 6.5 284 is supposed to be a barrel burner... but it's a different animal than the creedmore.
As far as What would I do if I did it all over? Get the Timney right away, and get a Nightforce right away. Take it in the nuts right out of the gate, and do it right. I'd probably just buy the 5R SS 20" threaded, because you can keep the stock if you just get it skim bedded.
3k - 3.5k is realistic... same goes for a .260 Rem and 6.5x47 Lapua.
The 6.5-284 will normally be around the 800 to 1200rnd range when she lets go... similiar to a .243 and .300 win mag.
Obviously, YMMV... as there are many Factors that come into play here.
skimbleshanks
12-09-14, 05:04
Well I have a custom bolt gun headed my way from my gun smith soon and if I was to do it over honestly I would have saved money just a bit longer and got exactly what I wanted. Tried to do some stuff on the cheap and durring the wait I ended up just going for the McMillan stock and Jewell trigger and nightforce scope. So now I have bought 2 stocks and 2 triggers and 2 scopes for one gun. Would have been way ahead to have been more patient and got exactly what I wanted to begin with.
Long Range Trigger Monkey
12-09-14, 06:24
Well I have a custom bolt gun headed my way from my gun smith soon and if I was to do it over honestly I would have saved money just a bit longer and got exactly what I wanted. Tried to do some stuff on the cheap and durring the wait I ended up just going for the McMillan stock and Jewell trigger and nightforce scope. So now I have bought 2 stocks and 2 triggers and 2 scopes for one gun. Would have been way ahead to have been more patient and got exactly what I wanted to begin with.
You know having those spares left over means that it will usually breed another build
Eurodriver
12-09-14, 08:20
With that budget, a Tikka CTR. In my opinion, .... Do a search on the FN SPR line or if wanting a tad lighter stick, stock with the features--Tikka CTR-plenty of threads on the Tikka's on SnipersHide and elsewhere.
Just do yourself a favor-look at he features you want and write down numbers-do the math to add a trigger, bedding, possibly have it threaded --or fixed, upgrade the stock, bottom metal, etc. Now that $650-700 rem 700 isn't such a good deal.
I just looked into the Tikka CTR and it looks very nice. You'd never get that much of a rifle for only a couple hundred more than that $700 Rem700.
So the general consensus seems to be save and buy something good. I'm well aware that the optic is where I should be dropping most of my money, but it's getting into prime shooting weather here and I'd like to be able to go out and utilize it.
6.5 Creedmore? How much is that ammo? $50 for 20?
Let's try another question:
If you were building a platform to ping 10" steel plates at 600 yards for the least amount of money possible and you didn't have a reloading press - what would you build?
I've heard good things about the SWFA SS 10x also, but why a Savage over a Remington, extractor?
I've heard good things about the SWFA SS 10x also,
That was my first scope. It was Ok.. but mine was Mil reticle with MOA turrets. Not sure if that's still the case. But once you run Nightforce Turrets, you really can't go back to anything else. They're just so much more mechanically solid than Tactical Elite, SWFA SS, etc.
but why a Savage over a Remington, extractor?
No reason I can think of.
Eurodriver
12-09-14, 08:33
You've already bit the bullet! It's easy to say "NF NF NF", but a good NF scope is my entire budget!
I guess I could just prop the scope up on some sandbags and get used to looking through it lol.
I guess I could just prop the scope up on some sandbags and get used to looking through it lol.
No doubt. Actually I'm running one of Pappabears NF scopes. If he got pissed and took it back, I'd have to sell a bunch of stuff to replace it. :sarcastic:
You've already bit the bullet! It's easy to say "NF NF NF", but a good NF scope is my entire budget!
I guess I could just prop the scope up on some sandbags and get used to looking through it lol.
I'd give Vortex Optics a look. I have had nothing but good luck with mine and they can be picked up used on Snipershide, etc for cheap...
I just looked into the Tikka CTR and it looks very nice. You'd never get that much of a rifle for only a couple hundred more than that $700 Rem700.
So the general consensus seems to be save and buy something good. I'm well aware that the optic is where I should be dropping most of my money, but it's getting into prime shooting weather here and I'd like to be able to go out and utilize it.
6.5 Creedmore? How much is that ammo? $50 for 20?
Let's try another question:
If you were building a platform to ping 10" steel plates at 600 yards for the least amount of money possible and you didn't have a reloading press - what would you build?
I've heard good things about the SWFA SS 10x also, but why a Savage over a Remington, extractor?
Obviously, you don't need the Atlas bipod, The guy on page three has something along the lines of your budget. While it's not a NF, that Leupold line gets the job done for the task you describe. I have the 4-12 on my Anschutz 64MPR. You won't have to build anything. Save your money, trust me. Just go with .308 for plenty of off the shelf ammunition, especially for 600 yard work.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=541&f=5514&t=13257838&p=3
Save your money, trust me. Just go with .308 for plenty of off the shelf ammunition, especially for 600 yard work.
I agree. There was mention of recoil being so much better with 6.5 CM, but really... even the .223 bolt gun doesn't get more than 50 rounds through it on a busy day of shooting. A .308 gets 15-30 rounds each shoot for us. I can stand the recoil at those volumes of fire.
constructor
12-09-14, 11:07
The 6.5 Creedmore came up in another thread too. No one seemed to know about barrel life. I ask because the 6.5 284 is supposed to be a barrel burner... but it's a different animal than the creedmore.
As far as What would I do if I did it all over? Get the Timney right away, and get a Nightforce right away. Take it in the nuts right out of the gate, and do it right. I'd probably just buy the 5R SS 20" threaded, because you can keep the stock if you just get it skim bedded.
The one thing about a Creedmoor that bugs me is the soft brass. If you push it at all the brass is toast after 4-5 reloads. Lapua 6.5x47 brass with small primers will last 10 loads pretty easy. Creedmoor brass is thin and has more capacity than any other brass if you form Creedmoor using 308 brass. I would rather use Winchester or Black Hills 308 brass and lose 2-3 grs to form Creedmoor than use Hornadys brass.
I wonder if you could use Palma 308....
I may be somewhat of the lone voice in the wilderness on this, but IMO - your budget is really the biggest factor here. You could build a great 600yd rifle for that money - but the fact that you are including optics is a very limiting factor. If your budget is hard and fast, then I'd seriously look at used parts and I say this for a number of reasons. An older Rem 700 that has been seasoned will get you a good starting point AND an older Rem 700 trigger that can be rebuilt with some new springs that will give you an exceelent trigger. 700's are very easy to blueprint and bed. Savages have sh*t triggers (yes even the new Accu-crap) and they are tricky to bed.
I prowl gun shops all the time for used / beat to sh*t 700's - all I want is the action. I find them all day long for $200 - $300. I sell the stocks & bbls on ebay and I'm into the action for $150-$200. Look for a used HS Precision M24 stock that has the aluminum bedding block in it. They can USUALLY be used straight up or skim bedded. Buy a good bbl - $300-$350. Another option on bbls is to buy a used bbl (match grade) from a known shooter and cut it down / rechamber. You get a new chamer and throat with a seasoned bore - I've done this a number of times and it is a great way to prolong the life of a good shooter. A lot of BR guys will set back and rechamber a number of times. A good scope mount / rings will run $200 and you'll have $ left to get a decent scope. Some of the older Nikons are very good. If your budget is hard and fast, then the big variable is going to be the labor and you'll be limitied to some basic work.
Looking back at my first bolt gun build...30+ yrs ago, what I'd do over is the barrel - I opted to stay with the OEM tube and I ended up chasing accuracy that wasn't available in that particular pipe. I replaced it years later with a hunting profile and it has been great. But the original one....not so much. It was a definite learning curve. The barrel is the central point of anything accurate - everything else can be absolutely perfect, but if the barrel is crap - it'll never shoot. You can cut back on a lot of other parts & work and still have a rifle that will hold MOA all day at 600 with a good barrel.
Re: the 6.5 Creedmoor - there are two real issues with this cartridge. One is barrel life - usually 30-35% less than a 308 and due to it's reduced powder capacity, it is really meant to shoot 120 & 140gr pills. While those bullets are great - they do not have the versatility of the 308. You will see reduced recoil - but not a lot. Personally - I think the 308 has more inherent accuracy than the 6.5 Creedmoor.
FWIW
Re: the 6.5 Creedmoor - there are two real issues with this cartridge. One is barrel life - usually 30-35% less than a 308 and due to it's reduced powder capacity, it is really meant to shoot 120 & 140gr pills. While those bullets are great - they do not have the versatility of the 308. You will see reduced recoil - but not a lot. Personally - I think the 308 has more inherent accuracy than the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I'm happy with an obnoxious brake or a suppressor on my .308. That knocks down recoil enough that I can shoot it as much as I want on any given day. The only time recoil gets old is when we take out a couple of 300 Win Mags and some other magnum gun, and you get worn out from all the thumping.
years back I shot some LR matches with a 300 WM - 220 or 240 gr SMK's - 30 min time limit, unlimited sighters and 20 for record, prone, sling, irons - I'm 6' / 200lbs and it beat the snot out of me - I think I shot maybe 26 rds - felt like I had gone 10rds with a serious puncher... 300WM = No Fun
years back I shot some LR matches with a 300 WM - 220 or 240 gr SMK's - 30 min time limit, unlimited sighters and 20 for record, prone, sling, irons - I'm 6' / 200lbs and it beat the snot out of me - I think I shot maybe 26 rds - felt like I had gone 10rds with a serious puncher... 300WM = No Fun
We shot the hell out of 300 and 7 mag getting ready for Pappabear's Elk hunt over the last few months... on top of all the 300 WM tactical guns and .308 shooting we already do. I've never spun so much H1000 powder out of the Chargemaster.... I'm so sick of magnum rifle shooting it's not funny.
We'd quadruple confirmed and cross checked dope and stuff so much.... it paid off. His kid got this bull at 537 yards:
Impressive, weight? What bullet?
Impressive, weight? What bullet?
200 gr Accubond from the 300wm. I think the bull weighed 900 lbs. (I don't know crap about hunting.)
He didn't go anywhere... as I understand it. It turned around and dropped within 10 yards of being hit.
SeriousStudent
12-09-14, 23:12
Damn, that's a beautiful elk.
Elk jerky and good bourbon is a gift from Odin himself.
Eurodriver
12-10-14, 07:17
My buddy has a 300WM and a 338 Lapua. From the recoil alone I don't doubt it can drop Elk that big.
308 is the biggest I'm going to go. With a suppressor or a brake, I can shoot it all day long.
Damn, that's a beautiful elk.
The guy who loaded the ammo awaits his elk meat patiently. ;)
Letzgoracin301
12-10-14, 10:13
I'd give Vortex Optics a look. I have had nothing but good luck with mine and they can be picked up used on Snipershide, etc for cheap...
I have a 6-24x50 HST. Great glass for the money. Mine is moa/moa but it can be had in mil/mil.
Interesting thread, I'm in the same boat except I have already purchased the rifle, 308 Rem 700 AAC SD, 20" threaded barrel and my range is 600 yards I go to and will likely be the farthest I shoot with it. Still plain jane out of the box at this point. I think I'm leaning towards the NF NXS 3.5-15. Still undecided for what stock or chassis upgrade, along with a Timney trigger.
Also in the same boat but got a 16" AAC. tempted to ditch it for the CTR though.
[QUOTE=MBtech;2041421]Interesting thread, I'm in the same boat except I have already purchased the rifle, 308 Rem 700 AAC SD, 20" threaded barrel and my range is 600 yards I go to and will likely be the farthest I shoot with it. Still plain jane out of the box at this point. I think I'm leaning towards the NF NXS 3.5-15. Still undecided for what stock or chassis upgrade, along with a Timney trigger.[/QUOT
I've had mine for several months. Used dremel tool to ensure barrel was free floated. Installed timney 510. Ordered McMillan A3 stock with inlet for American Precision Removable Magazine . Arrives tomorrow. With the Hogue stock was able to put 8 rounds in under 1.5 inches at 200 yards. I'm very satisfied with this Remington.
30327
[QUOTE=MBtech;2041421]Interesting thread, I'm in the same boat except I have already purchased the rifle, 308 Rem 700 AAC SD, 20" threaded barrel and my range is 600 yards I go to and will likely be the farthest I shoot with it. Still plain jane out of the box at this point. I think I'm leaning towards the NF NXS 3.5-15. Still undecided for what stock or chassis upgrade, along with a Timney trigger.[/QUOT
I've had mine for several months. Used dremel tool to ensure barrel was free floated. Installed timney 510. Ordered McMillan A3 stock with inlet for American Precision Removable Magazine . Arrives tomorrow. With the Hogue stock was able to put 8 rounds in under 1.5 inches at 200 yards. I'm very satisfied with this Remington.
I borrowed a 3-9x40 Nikon Slug Hunter off my shotty just to play around with for kicks and giggles. 100 yds
30325 30326
I don't think you have to go crazy with range play
Can't wait to upgrade though :) It's on the list
My first bolt gun started out as a standard Savage .308, I replaced the barrel with one from Hart, replaced the stock with a McMillan, and put a US Optic 5-25 on it. If I could do it again, I would just go with a GAP Gladius with a Manners stock and a US Optic 3.2-17 with a Horus reticle instead of the one that is in the 5-25 (forget which of the Mil based ones it is)
That or pretty much the same rifle as the Gladius but with a Surgeon 591 action instead of the GAP one.
Some people in a crappy marriage have choices, deal with what they have or the expense of fixing or replacing it. Don't prolong the agony.
If I had it to do over I'd skip my custom Savage project and go straight to a Tika CTR.
daddyusmaximus
12-11-14, 07:20
I just started on a .308 Savage build, but I'm obligated to keep it. My wife gave it to me when I turned 50. First gun she ever bought me, so she's coming around. Waiting on my new Boyd's stock right now. They sent me one for a long action by mistake, but if the correct one is as nice as the wrong one, I'll be very happy. That thing was nice.
What would you do over in your first bolt gun build?
A stock with an integral, adjustable cheekrest. Yep, it's an old gun.
Keith
I picked up a ruger american predator 308 the other day. Fore end on the stock sucks, but it's light and free floated. And wasn't spendy. Figured it was a cheaper way to see if I want to get deeper into bolt guns or not.
Thought about a 700, but figured I better not.
Letzgoracin301
12-12-14, 20:35
My first bolt gun started out as a standard Savage .308, I replaced the barrel with one from Hart, replaced the stock with a McMillan, and put a US Optic 5-25 on it. If I could do it again, I would just go with a GAP Gladius with a Manners stock and a US Optic 3.2-17 with a Horus reticle instead of the one that is in the 5-25 (forget which of the Mil based ones it is)
That or pretty much the same rifle as the Gladius but with a Surgeon 591 action instead of the GAP one.
The gladius is a r700 not a GAP(defiance machine) action. If I were going to buy a GAP I would go with the crusader due to the fact its a custom action, and a little less money. Not that a few hundred matters at that point.
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