Stuck lug nuts...

[Animal_Mother556]

*Stuck lug nuts...

Approximately 6 moths ago, I got two new tires for my 2010 F150. I ordered them through an auto shop near where I live...partly because I hate going to the actual tire dealer in my town, and partly because they could get me the tires at dang near the online price and I'd rather give the money to a local business. They are not a TIRE shop, but they do quite a bit of tire work.

They put the two new tires on the front, because they were worn the worst...and left the other two on the rear. I was very happy with the service there (just a small town shop). I drove the 20 miles home, went to work the next day (couple of miles), then when returning home I got out the tire wrench and made sure the nuts were still tight (gave them a good crank, and they did not move...good).

Well, a few days ago, I had them order two more identical tires to replace the old rear ones. Took the truck to the shop today, handed over the keys, and sat in the waiting area. The manager (or co-owner/co-manager...not exactly sure) came to me after about 15 minutes and told me that the front lug nuts will NOT come off, but the mechanic was going to keep trying (they were going to rotate them and put the new ones on the front). After about another 20 minutes he came to me and said that the mechanic tried everything he could think of, but every nut wouldn't budge. He said they also tried a larger impact driver that they use on big trucks, and it would not work.*

I said "The last time the front wheels were off was when I got those tires put on here."
He says "Ok, so they've been on there quite a while."

I thought "6 months is quite a while for lug nuts to be on a stud?

I said, "Do you think they were just overtightened and then seized?"
He says, "Yeah, probably. We have never seen this before. You know, sometimes one or two are stubborn, but this is all of them"

Anyways, he says they are going to have to torch them off, and then replace the nuts and the studs. He does not have them in stock, and is going to order them. I asked him how much this would cost, and he said it would take the mechanic about an hour hopefully, and that it would be near 200 dollars.

I was immediately upset.

I left there without getting the new tires on (should have just told him to put them on the rear, and don't worry about the rotation right now...the others are just a few months old...but I was upset and didn't).

SOOOO...here's the question...

Would I be out of line for asking them to pay for the new studs and nuts and labor? It just seems like I will be out $200 for something that I had no control of.

I am looking or answers from people that run auto shops, here. Is it possible that it wasn't their fault? The nuts were NOT over tightened, and just seized that hard on their own?

Sorry for the length guys...but (as with MANY other people in this country) I really don't have the $200 to spend right now, and am kind of angry at the whole situation.

[wildcard600]

They put them on, they should pay IMO.

reason number 1284859302 i do my own work on everything i possibly can.

[Animal_Mother556]

Oh, I agree...but I cannot buy the equipment needed to mount and balance tires to only use it once every few years.

[Averageman]

You're dealing with some Yokels.
Spend the money and have it done somewhere that the guy doing it doesn't look and sound like "Larry the Cable Guy."
Also
If you go online you can surely find a tutorial on how to do it yourself and it would be worth your time and effort to know how.
I'm not trying to bust your chops, but being the guy who gets called AFTER stuff like this happens can be a real bummer, it pays really well but it leaves me shaking my head all day long.

[Clint]

Lug nuts were probably over tightened.

Talk to the manager, tell him you expect the lug nuts to NOT be ruined when they do tire work for you.

Tell then you'll pay the normal price for the 2 new tires, but they'll need to eat the cost of un-screwing whatever they screwed up the first time.

[Animal_Mother556]

The thing is...they aren't really yokels. Everyone...and I mean literally everyone that I spoke to about them that has dealt with them has nothing but good things to say about them. I don't get it. I am hoping that they will man-up.

[jmoore]

Were the wheels alloy or steel?
John

[wildcard600]

Oh, I agree...but I cannot buy the equipment needed to mount and balance tires to only use it once every few years.

I understand completely, before I had access to tire mounting equipment I would take the wheels off and bring them in to mount and balance the tires and then put them back on the vehicle myself. Too many idiots with impacts crossthreading lug nuts in my experience.

Hopefully they will not act like douche bagels and cover the cost of their screwup.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Take it someplace else to see if they can get them off?

I'd have a hard time having them put the new tires on....

[Airhasz]

Spray the lugs with PB Blaster, let them sit a day and use a repeated start/stop technique with a quality impact setup till they break loose.

[TacticalMark]

Spray the lugs with PB Blaster, let them sit a day and use a repeated start/stop technique with a quality impact setup till they break loose. This, use a good penetrating oil like PB or LST and let it soak. No reason a good 3/4 IR impact couldn't remove them. Cutting them off with a torch would be foolish, you'd be better snapping them off with a impact as a last resort. Try another shop and make sure they didn't have an extension on their impact.

[26 Inf]

If you are going to try that I'd go big or go home - go to an industrial supply house and get some Aero-Kroil or plain Kroil (or order from Kano Labs or Brownell's) it works better than either PB Blaster or LST. Seriously, it's magic.

But IDK if that will help much from what you've described.

Even if they were cross threaded they should either back off, round the lugs or bog the impact down if the compressor isn't big enough.

Do these guys have a big enough compressor to run the air impact? Also make sure they are not using torque limiting extensions to try to run them off - won't work.

I would not let anyone near my wheels/rims with a torch. You could use a nut splitter/breaker - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/shc-94772?seid=srese1&gclid=CILtlMmOuMICFRE2aQodiLIA6A or a chisel.

[AKDoug]

It's not like those are big lugs. I deal with nuts on semi's, backhoes and loaders several days a month. I've never had one I couldn't get off. When I cannot get a pickup truck nut to come off I simply grab my 3/4" breaker bar and slip on a 48" cheater bar. The stud is either going to snap off, or it's going to move. A 200# man can exert 1200 ft lbs with that setup. I have never had to torch one off. I have used both Kroil and PB Blaster in my shop. I actually prefer PB.

If they are using an impact with an extension or a reducer, they are losing a bunch of torque.

[HD1911]

Last 2 posts got it figured out.

[Averageman]

There is a pretty good chance that if they overtightened them to that point the threads are shot. When over tightened they will deform and the stud will be damaged.
Getting them to "Man-up" and pay for the damage is questionable, it may be right, but they may not see it that way as they have no idea (other than your word) that they did the damage.
If I couldn't get them off, I would go the breaker bar and cheater pipe route, I don't know how much good (it can't hurt) lube will do at this point as the stud is possiblly deformed.
It may be a good shop, everyone has a bad day, but thats some silly stuff and it doesn't take much of that to ruin a reputation.

[ramairthree]

I understand completely, before I had access to tire mounting equipment I would take the wheels off and bring them in to mount and balance the tires and then put them back on the vehicle myself. Too many idiots with impacts crossthreading lug nuts in my experience.

Hopefully they will not act like douche bagels and cover the cost of their screwup.

This is what I do also.

[Animal_Mother556]

Well, the game just changed...

Called them to talk a little more about this and see if they will put the new tires on the rear to get that out of the way.

He says they can't because it is the rear lugs that are stuck. I told him that I was advised it was the FRONT lugs.

He apologized endlessly for mis-speaking and apologized for the confusion. Oops.

I would love for them not to go at them with a torch, so I think when I go there I will make sure they have tried a breaker bar and all other options first.

Thanks for the replies guys!

[Ryno12]

Well, the game just changed...

Called them to talk a little more about this and see if they will put the new tires on the rear to get that out of the way.

He says they can't because it is the rear lugs that are stuck. I told him that I was advised it was the FRONT lugs.

He apologized endlessly for mis-speaking and apologized for the confusion. Oops.

I would love for them not to go at them with a torch, so I think when I go there I will make sure they have tried a breaker bar and all other options first.

Thanks for the replies guys!

Can you try breaking loose one rear & one front to verify if they're handing you a line of crap? If it really is the front, it's on their dime. If it's the rear, it's yours.

[Hmac]

I would love for them not to go at them with a torch, so I think when I go there I will make sure they have tried a breaker bar and all other options first.



IMHO, if they have to replace the lug bolts anyway, far better to snap them off with a breaker bar than to torch them off. I would not want that kind of heat on steel rims at the bolt holes, and especially not anywhere near alloy wheels.

[Animal_Mother556]

I actually just tried breaking them loose with a length of pipe on the lug wrench....they aren't joking...they won't budge.

I am going to contact the Ford dealer and see what they will do. As far as I remember, the last time those rear wheels were messed with would have been at the factory.

Yeah, I REALLY don't want a torch near the wheels...

[MAUSER202]

IMHO, if they have to replace the lug bolts anyway, far better to snap them off with a breaker bar than to torch them off. I would not want that kind of heat on steel rims at the bolt holes, and especially not anywhere near alloy wheels.
Big + 1. After 27 years in the business this is what I would do. FYI new tires should always go on the back of a RWD vehicle. The studs should snap off with a breaker bar if you try to tighten them. Do yo have black lugs or silver. I think that year had a recall on the lugs and they where replaced with silver ones. It's been a while so I may be off on that last part.

[Animal_Mother556]

Update...

Took the truck back to the auto shop this morning...

They were able to get all of the lug nuts off using just a bit of heat, and an air hammer to loosen the threads. All of the studs were fine, but they replaced the lugs.

Price of the lugs plus labor ended up being just over 100 dollars, so nowhere near as bad as we originally thought.

So, two Dynapro ATM tires that cost 160 dollars each cost me 480 bucks to get mounted and balanced haha

[TriviaMonster]

Yeah, heatgun, kroil, and impact. Never met a lug I can't break free. If you are real desparate, heat gun, liquid nitro and a hammer, but you will need to replace the studs.

[Averageman]

I'm really not sure if it was mine to do that I wouldn't change the studs anyway.
Overtightening usually means deforming the threads, not my vehicle so I will stay out of it.

[JohnnyC]

Your post said they rotated the tires to the back, so regardless of whether it was the back or the front, they were the last ones to mess with them. They should be taking care of it regardless of where the new tires were getting put on since they were the last to touch all 4 tires.