View Full Version : Cleveland PD shooting ME report released . . .
Moose-Knuckle
12-12-14, 14:59
Death of Tamir Rice, 12-year-old shot by Cleveland police, ruled a homicide
The African American boy was fatally shot by a white Cleveland police officer on Nov. 22. Officers had responded to a 911 call reporting a person pointing a gun — which turned out to be a toy pistol missing its orange safety cap.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/12/12/death-of-tamir-rice-12-year-old-shot-by-cleveland-police-ruled-a-homicide/
The ME didn't give them a sacrificial lamb. There is such a thing as justifiable homicide.
Medical Examiner Thomas P. Gilson wrote in the report that “it is my opinion that Tamir E. Rice, a 12-year-old black adolescent male, died as a result of a gunshot wound to the abdomen which injured his inferior vena cava, intestines, and pelvis. The decedent was shot by law enforcement during legal intervention.”
Moose-Knuckle
12-12-14, 15:19
The ME didn't give them a sacrificial lamb. There is such a thing as justifiable homicide.
Medical Examiner Thomas P. Gilson wrote in the report that “it is my opinion that Tamir E. Rice, a 12-year-old black adolescent male, died as a result of a gunshot wound to the abdomen which injured his inferior vena cava, intestines, and pelvis. The decedent was shot by law enforcement during legal intervention.”
Thread title changed . . .
I would have ruled it a suicide...
-Cop car rolls up
-Kid stands up, lifts his garment and grabs a gun
-Cop shoots kid
The definition of a homicide is a death by the hands of another human being.... Totally different from murder.
I would have ruled it a suicide...
-Cop car rolls up
-Kid stands up, lifts his garment and grabs a gun
-Cop shoots kid
The definition of a homicide is a death by the hands of another human being.... Totally different from murder.
Agree, are you supposed to take the time to figure out it is NOT a toy and be killed yourself?
You better stop using common sense right now!
Not sure what the ME could have ruled aside from death from a gunshot. Pretty clear that the kid was shot and dies of his wounds.
Its sad that parents begin acting like concerned folks after their kids die or get hurt. Why not do it up front and teach your kid to not go round the street pointing guns at people. Just all sorts of flubber there.
I'm pleasantly surprised that the heathens haven't been in an uproar over this. Perhaps because the video clearly shows the kid acting like a little thug....perhaps emulating his older peers?
Homicide simply denotes that someone killed him. It wasn't ruled a "murder", which is an unjustified homicide.
We had a robbery suspect (with an AIRSOFT gun) get blasted by his would-be-victim....everyone celebrated. If it would've been a cop, riots would ensue.
Eurodriver
12-12-14, 20:44
We had a robbery suspect (with an AIRSOFT gun) get blasted by his would-be-victim....everyone celebrated. If it would've been a cop, riots would ensue.
Perspective has a funny way of tugging at one's emotions, because I feel the complete opposite.
I remember a line from one of my CJ textbooks years ago, something like all shootings are homicides but not all homicides are murder. Then it went on to detail the differences.
Too bad this boy didn't have good parents.
Probably pointed at the leos before getting shot also.
Agree, are you supposed to take the time to figure out it is NOT a toy and be killed yourself?
Apparently That's what some folks think..I've been watching this on Cleveland area news...The airsoft gun used was a dead ringer for a 1911... Honestly, I don't know what the cop was supposed to do, they roll up, ordred the kid to the ground, kid lifts up shirt and goes for what looks like a large auto...and gets shot while doing so.. The way I see it, It's tragic all the way around.. The kid's dead, as a result of his actions, The cop is ruined, his career is over, it's coming out that he had a nervous breakdown, at another dept prior to coming to Cleveland PD, and my guess is,somebody will likely get sued...The whole thing's a mess, and I blame the kids parents.. One would think the parents would at least try to get it across to the kid that you don't go around waving what looks like a real pistol in a park, especially considering that there's a huge black on black crime problem in east Cleveland, with a murder, shooting, stabbing, robbery just about every night of the week...
Singlestack Wonder
12-13-14, 14:32
Its interesting that when the police arrive at the scene (knowing that the suspect was reported to have a firearm), rather than take a position from the street behind the cover of their car and command the boy to put down the firearm and lay face down with hands extended forward, thus attempting to take command of the situation, they drive right up to the suspect and when he moves, open fire. Had the suspect been capable and possessed a real firearm, the police officers put themselves in obvious jeopardy at the point of their arrival. Poor training.....
Its interesting that when the police arrive at the scene (knowing that the suspect was reported to have a firearm), rather than take a position from the street behind the cover of their car and command the boy to put down the firearm and lay face down with hands extended forward, thus attempting to take command of the situation, they drive right up to the suspect and when he moves, open fire. Had the suspect been capable and possessed a real firearm, the police officers put themselves in obvious jeopardy at the point of their arrival. Poor training.....
Yup.. Cleveland PD seems to have a lot of that...It wasn't that long ago they had that big chase with what? 75 officers, at least 3 supervisors involved? all over a officer supposedly hearing a gunshot? end result two people they were chasing dead...no evidence of guns in the car... I don't know what the answer is for CPD...Maybe some hire competent people....
Moose-Knuckle
12-16-14, 02:22
Too bad this boy didn't have good parents.
Yup, had Tamir Rice, Michael Brown Jr., and Trayvon Martin had parents that gave two s**ts about them they would still be alive and Ferguson, MO's main street would not have burned to the ground . . .
Alpha Sierra
12-16-14, 14:51
I don't know what the answer is for CPD...Maybe some hire competent people....
You'd first have to find people who would want to deal with this:
http://youtu.be/ysmLA5TqbIY
Alpha Sierra
12-16-14, 14:51
Or with this
http://youtu.be/oZzgAjjuqZM
Whiskey_Bravo
12-16-14, 16:10
lol, " at least we're not Detroit"
Maybe some hire competent people....
Funny you should mention that. Article here (http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_officer_who_s.html) detailing plenty more about the officer and his competency.
A Nov. 29, 2012 letter contained in Tim Loehmann's personnel file from the Independence Police Department says that during firearms qualification training he was "distracted" and "weepy."
"He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal," according to the letter written by Deputy Chief Jim Polak of the Independence police.
The letter recommended that the department part ways with Loehmann, who went on to become a police officer with the Cleveland Division of Police.
"I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct the deficiencies," Polak said.
Cleveland police said on Wednesday that they never reviewed the Independence file and changed their policies to include checking publicly available records for potential hires.
Funny you should mention that. Article here (http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_officer_who_s.html) detailing plenty more about the officer and his competency.
That is all sorts of whacked regarding the background check. How can a hiring department not review employment history during the hiring process.
As a whole I do feel for lots of departments. The number of competent professionals willing to deal with the crap pay, crap hours and crap people day in and day out has to be exponentially diminishing.
That is all sorts of whacked regarding the background check. How can a hiring department not review employment history during the hiring process.
As a whole I do feel for lots of departments. The number of competent professionals willing to deal with the crap pay, crap hours and crap people day in and day out has to be exponentially diminishing.
Not doing a thorough background check is really not as uncommon as you'd think it would be.
The hours suck and so do the people but the pay is hardly crap in many areas. I was reading this report in the Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/12/06/off-duty-police-face-drunken-driving-charges-and-lenient-treatment-with-surprising-frequency/KaH7EiTyoWx88dsLZpIaHM/story.html) earlier today which lists the officer's salary as being $130k a year, read quoted below. We have lots of police officers making over $250k a year here in Vegas (http://www3.8newsnow.com/salaries/2011/?agency=lvmpd&type=-1&limit=25&q=&t=) and several making over $500k a year. I don't know about you but that doesn't sound too bad to me.
The first time Brian Simpkins was arrested on a charge of drunken driving — after ramming his Chevy pickup into a tree in Canton — he was just 19.
The second time he was arrested — after he was found passed out in his car with the engine running in September 2012, a half-empty can of Coors Light lying on the floor — he was a state trooper, charged with keeping the roads safe from drunk drivers.
Simpkins, 41, admitted that he started drinking beer after a softball tournament, went to a bar and drank some more, then went to another tavern and kept drinking before heading to the Wendy’s in Stoughton, where he was found asleep at the wheel, according to the arrest report.
He was so groggy that when a state trooper asked him for his driver’s license, he handed over his Visa card instead.
But the Massachusetts State Police kept Simpkins, who earns roughly $130,000 a year, on paid administrative duty even after he lost his license for a year for refusing a breath test and couldn’t go out on patrol. And with no alcohol test results, a judge acquitted him of the criminal charges after tossing much of the other evidence on legal technicalities. Now, he’s back on patrol out of the Boston barracks.
Simpkins is one of at least 30 Massachusetts law enforcement officials who have been charged with drunken driving while off-duty since the start of 2012, a Globe review has found. The crashes collectively killed three people and injured more than a half-dozen others.
Though some officers resigned or were placed on unpaid leave after the charges, a majority kept their jobs, sometimes after a short suspension...
Eurodriver
12-16-14, 17:12
I'm sure a few officers make that kind of pay (Suffolk County, NY starts at $100k), especially the higher ranking ones and those with lots of Off Duty opportunities (paid for by private establishments, not taxpayer $$$)
However, every time I drive by a shitty 2 bedroom wooden houses in the white areas of town I am always seeing squad cars parked in the driveways. Definitely don't see any PD vehicles in the $400,000+ neighborhoods.
The libertarian in me says LE pay needs to be squashed. The realist in me says it needs to be doubled. Higher pay = Higher Tier Officers = Less Frequent Violations of Policy
El Vaquero
12-16-14, 19:18
The realist in me says it needs to be doubled. Higher pay = Higher Tier Officers = Less Frequent Violations of Policy
Stop that crazy talk nonsense!!;)
Moose-Knuckle
12-16-14, 20:05
You'd first have to find people who would want to deal with this:
Okay I had to :lol:!
You'd first have to find people who would want to deal with this:
You don't need to tell me about Cleveland...I live a little over 100miles from there, My brother, who recently retired still lives there. (God knows why) Cleveland is a shithole, always was, and always will be. It's just one good recession away from becoming Ohio's version of Detroit...
Alpha Sierra
12-17-14, 06:11
lol, " at least we're not Detroit"
Give it time.......
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