View Full Version : DD MK18 Range Report
First time out with my DD MK18, pictured below, and was impressed with the setup.
I took some extra buffers as I wasn't 100% sure the VLTOR H4 in the VLTOR A5 system would function 100% with a variety of ammo.
The good news is with PMC Bronze, XM193 and my medium-ish power 4198 55gr hand loads the setup functioned flawlessly with the VLTOR H4 and recoil was negligible. The bolt locked back on the last round every time, with every round shot. The bolt picked up rounds very smoothly and didn't have a single hiccup.
The rifle:
DD MK18 Upper
Spikes Lower
ALG ACT trigger
Colt LPK
VLTOR A5 RE - Spring and H4 buffer
VLTOR EMOD Stock
Troy Micro HK flip sights
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v152/p897313132-5.jpg
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v127/p972363182-5.jpg
The Target:
Distance: 100 Yards
Iron Sights: (At my age I can barely see the target at 100 yards, so cut me some slack when using irons please)
Cartridges: 20.5gr IMR 4198 / 55gr Hornady Soft Points
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s12/v184/p842627756-5.jpg
How many rds did you end up firing? Was it your first time shooting with this gun/upper?
I also have a factory DD Mk18 upper running on a stock LMT defender lower with carbine buffer and it has never had a hiccup. Time to paint yours.
I would love for anyone else running a DD MK18 upper to weigh in on their chosen buffer / spring combos. There seems to be a lot of variety with the H2 and standard spring or sprinco blue leading the way. I must admit, the A5 system is intriguing.
I'd love to see a picture that shows the entire weapon OP.
And I 2nd that it's time to paint it.
sinlessorrow
12-15-14, 13:31
I would love for anyone else running a DD MK18 upper to weigh in on their chosen buffer / spring combos. There seems to be a lot of variety with the H2 and standard spring or sprinco blue leading the way. I must admit, the A5 system is intriguing.
With a gas port of .083" on the DD MK18's the VLTOR is about the only option. The spec is .071-.073" on a 10.3" barrel and DD chose a .083" for the ability to shoot TULAmmo, this means with anything less than a rifle system(or VLTOR) you are looking at horribly reduced bolt life and less than stellar reliability. My MK18 when I had it snapped the bolt lugs around 5,000-6,000 rounds and probably had 1 FTE every 70 or so rounds. My LMT(which uses a .071" gas port) has performed significantly better all the way around. This is with a carbine spring and H2 buffer fyi.
Were you running an A5 in your rifle when you had it or something else?
sinlessorrow
12-15-14, 14:39
Were you running an A5 in your rifle when you had it or something else?
Yep, when I had the DD MK18 upper it was on my A5 lower. My LMT is on my basic carbine lower with a H2 buffer. Even with the A5 the DD upper was insanely overgassed, that is why I think the A5 is a must have when using the DD upper.
Most of the shots went into at least the eight ring...you done good, sir.
Were you running an A5 in your rifle when you had it or something else?
Yes A5 with H4 VLTOR buffer.
Most of the reason for the post was to document the function of the A5 H4 buffer with this upper and the PMC Bronze which is about the lightest load I ever shoot.
BufordTJustice
12-15-14, 20:49
Yes A5 with H4 VLTOR buffer.
Most of the reason for the post was to document the function of the A5 H4 buffer with this upper and the PMC Bronze which is about the lightest load I ever shoot.
That A5H4 buffer is an awesome option to have. Thanks for the report.
TacticalMark
12-15-14, 21:27
Where did you find the DD rail covers? I didn't seem them on their website. Good shooting with irons at 100yrds.
Where did you find the DD rail covers? I didn't seem them on their website. Good shooting with irons at 100yrds.
They came with the upper.....the upper I bought earlier in the year came with "normal" ladder style rail covers. I was surprised this one came with something different.
Thanks for the compliment, at my age, shooting irons, the target is a blurry blob in the background there is little to no precision involved. I wish I still had my 20 year old eyes. When I shoot for groups at any range I am forced to use an optic anymore.
Perhaps I should start a thread on tips for shooting irons when you're 50+......
How many rds did you end up firing? Was it your first time shooting with this gun/upper?
Yes, first time with this upper / lower SBR. I shot a total of 120 rounds. 50 hand loads and the others were sighting in the irons with PMC / XM193. (Not pictured)
I appreciate the feedback on the red spider, but I paid extra for that! :) (Joking of course)
I'll snap a quick shot of the entire rifle and post it up, but it won't be the same quality as the other pictures.
I lied, this one is fairly high quality as well.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v139/p147719251-5.jpg
Yep, when I had the DD MK18 upper it was on my A5 lower. My LMT is on my basic carbine lower with a H2 buffer. Even with the A5 the DD upper was insanely overgassed, that is why I think the A5 is a must have when using the DD upper.
Wow, definately overgassed. Instead of going with special buffers and springs, wouldnt it be easier to use an adjustable gas block such as the SLR or Syrac and not worry about it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Wow, definately overgassed. Instead of going with special buffers and springs, wouldnt it be easier to use an adjustable gas block such as the SLR or Syrac and not worry about it?
Perhaps....Personally, I like leaving things stock, to the extent possible.
So, to what degree should one expect a blue Sprinco spring and H3 buffer to mitigate undue wear? That is what I currently have in my DD Mk18 pistol.
ClearedHot
12-16-14, 00:57
OP, I noticed your rear BUIS could actually be moved a couple rail slots to the rear. That would increase your sight radius a little bit and would probably help you get the most accuracy out of your irons.
Good shooting by the way.
Thanks for the review, hk.
I can't for the life of me figure out why a quality manufacturer like DD over gasses their mk18's.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
elephantrider
12-16-14, 02:24
Thanks for the review, hk.
I can't for the life of me figure out why a quality manufacturer like DD over gasses their mk18's.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because of the lowest common denominator ammo users.
Because of the lowest common denominator ammo users.
Well I know that's the 'reason' but in my opinion that's 'bush' league shit if you know what I mean. LMT, colt, BCM, noveske, and KAC don't seem to feel the need to over gas as far as I know.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OP, I noticed your rear BUIS could actually be moved a couple rail slots to the rear. That would increase your sight radius a little bit and would probably help you get the most accuracy out of your irons. Good shooting by the way.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will check that out.
ETA: Fixed, thanks for pointing that out.
midSCarolina
12-16-14, 09:21
Well I know that's the 'reason' but in my opinion that's 'bush' league shit if you know what I mean. LMT, colt, BCM, noveske, and KAC don't seem to feel the need to over gas as far as I know.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
KAC also doesn't make a 10.3/10.5 and neither does BCM. I do agree that designing your rifle around that worst ammo made is a poor decision. I don't use Tula but .083 seems a little excessive even for underpowered ammo IMO.
Billmanweh
12-16-14, 11:40
I'm trying to decide whether to get one of these, or wait until BCM has the 11.5" uppers back in stock
You mean "bush" league like my colt 10.5 or the 25 others I have seen go back and forth to colt because they couldn't figure out the right gas/spring ratio. I'll take my DD Mk18 upper with a little extra gas any day.
You mean "bush" league like my colt 10.5 or the 25 others I have seen go back and forth to colt because they couldn't figure out the right gas/spring ratio. I'll take my DD Mk18 upper with a little extra gas any day.
Wasn't trying to ruffle anyone's feathers. I love DD, I've just seen so many reports of malfunctions/premature wear from mk18s and answer is always "so it will shoot tula." THAT is what SEEMS bush league to me. But maybe I just don't have all the necessary info.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
From my personal experience, 10.5/10.3 guns are always going to be a compromise. I would rather have it overgassd and run a variety of ammo. Your needs may vary. Owning both a DD 10.5 and DD 11.5 I would always pick the 11.5 but carry the 10.5 with confidence.
I would rather have it overgassd and run a variety of ammo.
That's cool. And I respect your view on the topic. But for me?... I view a 10.5 as a CQB gun that should be able to be fired fast and accurately. In my experience with over gassed shorties, I've found them to be a pain in the ass to shoot fast. The bounce me off target too quickly and are flat out not enjoyable to shoot.
When I first did an SBR, I had this crazy over-gassed 11.5 Sabre barrel. (This was years back before we knew much about port size and buffers.) Anyway, I ended up NEVER shooting the thing because I just thought SBRs were miserable to shoot, and that was that.
midSCarolina
12-16-14, 13:45
You mean "bush" league like my colt 10.5 or the 25 others I have seen go back and forth to colt because they couldn't figure out the right gas/spring ratio. I'll take my DD Mk18 upper with a little extra gas any day.
No, he means bush league as in not like the LMT 10.5 which runs Tula at .071" (at least with the standard carbine buffer that LMT ships all their rifles with :p). I think the DD is a great rifle, but you better do some upgrading to the spring and buffer if you don't want your rifle beating the hell out of itself. My personal feelings are that DD took the easy way out and chose overgassed instead of more R&D.
No, he means bush league as in not like the LMT 10.5 which runs Tula at .071" (at least with the standard carbine buffer that LMT ships all their rifles with :p).
Pappabear just rolled one of the LMTs out. We shot it with the CAR buffer (unknowingly), and that sucker was rough. It runs great with an H3 using full powered .223. (we don't have any weak ammo to try it with)
midSCarolina
12-16-14, 14:18
Pappabear just rolled one of the LMTs out. We shot it with the CAR buffer (unknowingly), and that sucker was rough. It runs great with an H3 using full powered .223. (we don't have any weak ammo to try it with)
Yea... I don't think that the carbine buffer is ideal for your standard ammo :fie:. I attempted a quick 15 round mag dump with a std car buffer (suppressed) and it would only get one round out before it had a f2f. Changed out the buffer to an H2 and it ran through without any more bolt bounce issues (which i assume is what was happening with the carbine buffer). Rate of fire was still a little quicker than I prefer hah.
I don't fret a lot about an AR being over or under gassed. If it is a bit over gassed you can pretty easily swap buffers / springs. The recoil from a gas operated 5.56 rifle is never going to be all that bad, regardless of the gas system.
I understand that your opinion may differ on this subject if you're a competition shooter, are recoil sensitive or simply a pussy. :D (No, I am not calling anyone in this thread a pussy.....)
Everyone has different use cases and/or scenarios where you could argue it is good or bad one way or another. It is what it is, as my hunting partners would say......
Pappabear just rolled one of the LMTs out. We shot it with the CAR buffer (unknowingly), and that sucker was rough. It runs great with an H3 using full powered .223. (we don't have any weak ammo to try it with)
I run another one with 10.3 DD BARREL and RISII. I have a Vltor A5 in it and it has run fine with different weight buffers. I run a M4-2000. Mark and I played with different weights and I can't remember the entire variety because they all worked. Mark might remember what weights we tinkered with on the suppressed version.
So should a blue Sprinco spring and H3 buffer help keep unnecessary wear to a minimum? It cycles IMI M855 fine, just wondering if it is enough to tamp down accelerated bolt wear/stress.
TacMedic556
12-16-14, 22:36
DD MK18 Upper on a Colt Lower.
I run a H2 buffer and a Sprinco Blue. Runs great.
Yes, first time with this upper / lower SBR. I shot a total of 120 rounds. 50 hand loads and the others were sighting in the irons with PMC / XM193. (Not pictured)
I appreciate the feedback on the red spider, but I paid extra for that! :) (Joking of course)
I'll snap a quick shot of the entire rifle and post it up, but it won't be the same quality as the other pictures.
I lied, this one is fairly high quality as well.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v139/p147719251-5.jpg
Beautiful setup, you should be fine running that buffer, as everyone has already told you.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v139/p147719251-5.jpg
OP, I am not one that is interested in SBRs....just not my thing.
But that is one titties SBR. Just fantastic.
Damn, ARs are my cocaine. I friggin' love ARs.......
Singlestack Wonder
12-17-14, 09:16
A DD upper on a lower with a logo showing 2 penises crushing a bug.... :cool:
Adrenaline_6
12-17-14, 17:46
A DD upper on a lower with a logo showing 2 penises crushing a bug.... :cool:
Lol...never saw it like that. You've ruined it for me forever!
To the OP: Nice SBR though!
OP,
What was your reason for going with the troy micros?
DD Mk18 upper. Vltor A5H2, Vltor spring, and LMT E-carrier. This setup has been great so far, runs on anything ammo wise and is very smooth.
OP,
What was your reason for going with the troy micros?
Several reasons.
- I like the HK style sight picture, I have it on other rifles and it works for me, I don't care for traditional AR sights, that is just me....
- I like their relatively small size
- I like the ability to fold them when using an optic
- I have them on numerous other rifles and they seem to work well on most everything I've used them on
- LGS that I do business with, often, carries them, so they are easily obtained
- I looked really hard at the MBUS PRO sights for this rifle but I just don't like them as much and they aren't available, that I've seen, in the HK sight picture
Make sense?
Several reasons.
- I like the HK style sight picture, I have it on other rifles and it works for me, I don't care for traditional AR sights, that is just me....
- I like their relatively small size
- I like the ability to fold them when using an optic
- I have them on numerous other rifles and they seem to work well on most everything I've used them on
- LGS that I do business with, often, carries them, so they are easily obtained
- I looked really hard at the MBUS PRO sights for this rifle but I just don't like them as much and they aren't available, that I've seen, in the HK sight picture
Make sense?
Makes sense. I guess if your not running an optic then 1/3 cowitness is irrelevant.
elephantrider
12-18-14, 05:01
Iron Sights: (At my age I can barely see the target at 100 yards, so cut me some slack when using irons please)
I think the only way around the eyes issue is to use a magnified optic (say 1-4, or 1-6) with the focus piece adjusted to your eyes.
For anyone running an h2 and blue sprinco, how much of a difference than the standard spring?
OP.
Good looking group you fired there. I'm 53 now and I'd be pleased shooting that group with a 10.3" at 100yds with my old eyes. I have a similar rig. It's a DD 10.3" SBR with a magpul handguard and it is over gassed as well. I have to admit shooting Tula a few times because the ammo was gifted to me. The good news is I have never had a stoppage in almost 9K rounds. If there is powder and a primer and a bullet it feed, fires & ejects it every time. I don't give a shit about bolts. If I snap one I have plenty of spares.
If I knew I was going to fight I'd just grab my factory Colt 6933 and be done with it.
openbolt
If 28" is the normal collapsed length, any way to decrease this, lwrc compact stock, etc?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.