View Full Version : Gen4 G19 vs. Gen4 G17 Accuracy Question
Several knowledgable trainers (LAV, Kyle DeFoor, Mac among them) have noted that students armed with a Gen1/2/3 G17 seem to shoot 10-15% better than those armed with a Gen1/2/3 G19.
Has anyone seen this same discrepancy between Gen4 G17 and G19 pistols?
Thanks,
Okie John
Not sure how scientifically they are able actually to prove this. Much of the time it is not a "hardware" problem, but a "software" problem.
But, having said that, the longer sight radius of the G17 would, presuming everything else is equal, contribute toward greater accuracy.
Not sure how scientifically they are able actually to prove this. Much of the time it is not a "hardware" problem, but a "software" problem.
But, having said that, the longer sight radius of the G17 would, presuming everything else is equal, contribute toward greater accuracy.
When guys at that level talk, I listen.
They tend to have switched-on shooters in their classes and they know what they're looking at when they diagnose problems. I doubt that any of them would blame hardware until they had eliminated all other possible causes.
Okie John
No need to get defensive, the fact is that the observation is simply that, an observation, and your report is anecdotal, at best, with no link to any kind of formal study of this.
That being said, you missed my suggestion for one possible explanation: longer sight radius.
No need to get defensive, the fact is that the observation is simply that, an observation, and your report is anecdotal, at best, with no link to any kind of formal study of this.
That being said, you missed my suggestion for one possible explanation: longer sight radius.
My apologies. I didn't mean to seem defensive, and I apologize if my response came off that way.
The G17 is a bit heavier, which might help with recoil, and there's definitely the issue of sight radius, but I'm guessing there's something beyond those two...
Okie John
Okie-dokey! Sounds good.
:)
Okie-dokey! Sounds good.
:)
I see what you did there...
What complicates the hell out of it is that the G26 will often hang with the G17 in slow fire. I'm so confused.
Okie John
I've shot all of them, in every caliber and of all the Glocks...I think I do best with the Glock 21. But the G19, even though I have large hands, is my favorite EDC weapon. The G17 and I have never gotten along too well, go figure.
But I do run a RMR on my G19 and it is pretty darn sweet.
I see what you did there...
What complicates the hell out of it is that the G26 will often hang with the G17 in slow fire. I'm so confused.
Okie John
I shoot the G17 much better than my G19 no doubt. Longer sight radius and better ergonomics. The G26 with the smaller grip and smaller sight radius i shoot like a scalpel. I have never understood this.
I see what you did there...
What complicates the hell out of it is that the G26 will often hang with the G17 in slow fire. I'm so confused.
Okie John
I shoot the G17 much better than my G19 no doubt. Longer sight radius and better ergonomics. The G26 with the smaller grip and smaller sight radius i shoot like a scalpel. I have never understood this.
Shooters often shoot the subcompacts better than larger frames. The shorter grip surface forces a more deliberate grip with the fingers remaining on the gun, there is less surface area for negative inputs. Less of the lower hand on the gun limits heeling. Shooters are more deliberate in their sight alignment and trigger press. This does NOT translate to an improvement in splits or other attributes of fast handling/shooting. Just more static or deliberate drills.
To further illustrate the point, run a dry fire trigger press routine on a compact or standard frame, noting what your hand is doing and what you are feeling through the press and follow-through. Now fly your pinky forward away from the frame and repeat the process, noting the differences.
For me, yes. I can't comment for other's, but I shot my Gen4 G17's noticeably better than the Gen4 G19 I had. Ended up selling the 19 and having a 17 chopped to take 19 mags, best of both world's for me.
I really can't tell gen 3 or 4, but I shoot 17s better. I like g19s better for carry though.
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I love my 17 but I shoot my gf's 19 a little better due to size. Seriously thinking about chopping the grip even though I have extremely large hands
Several knowledgable trainers (LAV, Kyle DeFoor, Mac among them) have noted that students armed with a Gen1/2/3 G17 seem to shoot 10-15% better than those armed with a Gen1/2/3 G19.
I've seen the exact opposite with new, female shooters. The smaller grip size of the G19 seems to work better for more people, including myself. I shoot a G19 better than I do a G17. It's all about ergonomics and trigger technique.
BuzzinSATX
12-18-14, 18:37
Several knowledgable trainers (LAV, Kyle DeFoor, Mac among them) have noted that students armed with a Gen1/2/3 G17 seem to shoot 10-15% better than those armed with a Gen1/2/3 G19.
Has anyone seen this same discrepancy between Gen4 G17 and G19 pistols?
Thanks,
Okie John
Nothing personal, but where did you hear/see them say this? In a class? On this board? In an article or interview? Just would like to see if there was any more to their observation or put in any context.
Thanks!
thebarracuda
12-18-14, 19:00
I'm curious as well.
I know the longer sight radius of the 17 helps me shoot a little better than my 19, but the shorter frame of the 19 limits my bad technique influencing the frame. These are the problems that plague this mediocre pistol shooter. I guess the longer sight radius does give me more confidence though. Maybe I should chop the 17...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?127756-How-important-is-the-quot-platform-quot
That was the vein of this question...
BTW-never posted a link here before, hope i did it correctly... If not, "Ask the SME"-How important is the platform....
I think all of these guns probably shoot pretty similarly for decent shooters in slow fire. Where the mass of the bigger guns come into play is when speed picks up and the mass reduces recoil.
I know some (I remember KevinB specifically) think they run G19's better than G17's and that it was probably due to having more time on the 19 and perhaps the geometry of the G19 grip being different.
Now this maybe not very scientific, but I think the recoil reduction between going to Gen4 guns vs Gen3 guns is on par with the recoil reduction from moving from a G17 to G19 as well.
My EDC is a Gen4 G17 cut to run G19 mags.
Nothing personal, but where did you hear/see them say this? In a class? On this board? In an article or interview? Just would like to see if there was any more to their observation or put in any context.
Thanks!
No offense taken.
It was a thread comment by DocGKR, who I think no longer posts here. I believe it was posted here. He trains with all of those folks regularly and talks with them offline as well, so I considered the mention to be credible. I believe that Doc was quoting a observation made by DeFoor, which he later verified with Mac and LAV (but I could be wrong) while talking about the general qualities the G19 and the G17.
Does that answer your question?
Okie John
I shoot the G17 much better than my G19 no doubt. Longer sight radius and better ergonomics. The G26 with the smaller grip and smaller sight radius i shoot like a scalpel. I have never understood this.
Same here. G19 front sight flew off day 1 of a 2 day class and finished with G26 backup. Was quicker first shot on draw (slower draw), faster shot to shot and more accurate than G19. Doesn't make sense.
LightningFast
12-19-14, 20:17
Several knowledgable trainers (LAV, Kyle DeFoor, Mac among them) have noted that students armed with a Gen1/2/3 G17 seem to shoot 10-15% better than those armed with a Gen1/2/3 G19.
Has anyone seen this same discrepancy between Gen4 G17 and G19 pistols?
Thanks,
Okie John
What is "better?" More accurate? More quickly? Concealed better? Looked better in tactical pictures?
What is the context of the question? If you're deciding between the two, I don't think it will matter. Pick whichever you like more, and shoot the hell out of it. I seriously doubt you'll shoot it better or worse than the other, in appreciable differences.
I don't get why you, or anybody, cares what the trainers think on something so insignificant. Pick one. Shoot one. You'll be just fine.
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