View Full Version : I sold my upper on arfcom, now I have to ship it....
As I understood it, I could ship an upper receiver (assembly) to an individual in another state, because that is not the "firearm" portion (no serial #, and not governed by ATF).
Is this true? If so, does anyone know where I can find a federal statement of such?
Thanks a bunch.
Jay Cunningham
06-28-08, 11:26
An AR upper is not a firearm and you can ship it to anyone in the US with no restrictions.
Ron, no CONUS restrictions. You can ship it by any carrier you chose. I find the blueprint shipping tubes are great for uppers and golf clubs.
Stan
Yep, that's my understanding.
However, the Post Office wants a printed statement by the ATF declaring that.
Any ideas?
Jay Cunningham
06-28-08, 11:43
Yep, that's my understanding.
However, the Post Office wants a printed statement by the ATF declaring that.
Any ideas?
Yeah - don't mention it to them. The Post Office just asks if you have anything liquid, fragile or perishable. They also have restrictions on hazardous materials. Uppers are none of the above and none of their business.
You don't have to tell them anything. There has been no violation of the law and if they give you a problem just go to a different post office. I've never had to declare to the postal clerk that there was an upper. If they were that nosey, I would tell them that they are golf clubs that I sold on Fleabay. That is just my .02, you really have nothing to worry about.
Stan
Yeah - don't mention it to them. The Post Office just asks if you have anything liquid, fragile or perishable. They also have restrictions on hazardous materials. Uppers are none of the above and none of their business.
Good point. You're not breaking the law. Box it and ship it. If they ask what is inside, "machine parts". Technically that is true. An AR is a machine and you do not have a complete AR in the box. Insure for the value you would pay to replace it in 24 hours.
Think about it. . .Would you tell the guy if you were shipping gold coins or diamonds? To me, gun parts shipped legally are the same thing.
The trouble you ran into is that the word "gun" in all it's forms, draws out the illegal beliefs of all yo yos in a position of power. Frankly, for the time being, the guy at the shipping desk has the power. If he knows you are shipping an Upper and refuses, ask to speak to his manager. If his manager refuses, ask to speak to the postmaster. If he refuses, ask to speak to his manager. A level or 2 up should greet you with someone who knows how to mail something. Don't forget to mention how disrespectful it is to be treated like that.
Perhaps next time you should find out the rules before selling something, then you won't have as much to worry about.
Just send the upper and don't volunteer any information to the post office.
Just for fun I usually descibe it as "a calibrated lead dispensing unit"
Perhaps next time you should find out the rules before selling something, then you won't have as much to worry about.
Just send the upper and don't volunteer any information to the post office.
Oh I knew the rules, as I stated. It's the Post Office that gave me trouble. I knew I could, and when they got hysterical and started looking up rules for firearms, I firmly said to the little old lady, "Look at me. Stop looking for firearms...I'm not trying to ship a firearm."
Of course, she didn't get it, and the Postmaster was busy and it was 11:58 (closed at noon).
I'll just mail it.
Any idea where to get the blueprint tube?
dwhitehorne
06-28-08, 12:41
I got my last one at Walmart near the school/paper supplies. David
Next time I would tell the postal idiot that she should consult the postal service regulations as they are pretty clear. Brownells and other companies routinely ship firearms parts through USPS all the time. Everything I buy from them comes over here that way. Below is from the USPS website. I found nothing about parts and an upper is not a firearm according to the ATF.
11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.
11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.
Oh I knew the rules, as I stated. It's the Post Office that gave me trouble. I knew I could, and when they got hysterical and started looking up rules for firearms, I firmly said to the little old lady, "Look at me. Stop looking for firearms...I'm not trying to ship a firearm."
Of course, she didn't get it, and the Postmaster was busy and it was 11:58 (closed at noon).
I'll just mail it.
Any idea where to get the blueprint tube?
Why are you even telling them this? Why is it not packed up already?
I didn't want to have one of them spaz out if the package got damaged and "OH MY GOD THERE'S A GUN". I don't know...I was just being cautious. I'll just bring it to the next town's PO.
11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.
I pointed this out to them in the manual, and said "even if the postmaster says no, his opinion is silenced by the ATF's ruling". That's when she said "we'll need to see that".
Seems like they'd be required to know such things.
i told my local post office what i was shipping due to insurance and they didnt care. of course i live in ga
Ron:
Maybe the democratic state of NY post office operate differently from the rest of the Union. :) If they ask what's inside, tell them it's steel tubing machine parts. If you really concerned, just UPS or FEDEX ground it. It may be a little more than USPS but they're not quite as intrusive on the content. Remember "machine parts".
eightmillimeter
06-28-08, 16:31
Just for fun I usually descibe it as "a calibrated lead dispensing unit"
:D :D ;) ;)
I agree with Sam, take it somewhere else.
chrismartin
06-28-08, 20:08
Go to USPS.com, sign up for a click-n-ship account, print out your own pre-paid label, slap it on a box and drop it off somewhere. Hell, I have even dropped things off at the pick up at work. It's just a metal tube and machined parts.
Cake.
I once mailed an upper and it was so banged up that the barrel was sticking out of the package, the mailman delivered and apologized to the recipient for the damage to the packaging, no questions, no fuzz or anything. Oh, and no damage to the upper either. A rifle of mine was once delivered to my FFL by the USPS wrapped in brown paper with half of it sticking out, no problems either.
baffle Stack
06-29-08, 10:41
I made the same mistake once. I was shipping an upper in a box that a winchester shotgun came in. Long story short, I knew i could ship the upper but the person at the post office didn't and she made a huge deal about it. Needless to say i ended up looking like an ass if front of the people there. They were all whispering,scared and looking very concerned(not that i really cared but still it was unneeded aggravation). I don't know what exactly they thought was going on. Lesson learned: Put uppers in an inconspicuous box and heed the good advice in this thread. Don't volunteer extra info.
When you pack it up, put plenty of padding on the muzzle. I gaaaaar-en-teeeeeeee if you don't, the forces that be will cause a protrusion of the barrel through the box.
Ron, no CONUS restrictions. You can ship it by any carrier you chose. I find the blueprint shipping tubes are great for uppers and golf clubs.
Stan
X2 I used to work at a shipping place and those tubes are great for uppers, clubs, bats anything like that
Business_Casual
06-29-08, 21:18
Wait a minute, the Post Office will ship a rifle for you anyway so why freak about an upper? And if you are an FFL sending to an FFL, you can send handguns via the USPS. I smell a rat.
M_P
decodeddiesel
06-30-08, 10:01
The lady is incompetent and is ignorant to the regulations, it happens (a lot) now a days. I think the click-n-ship is the best option. I have used it and it works really well. I would also place a foam cut-out around the end of the muzzle to prevent protrusion during shipping.
i think you just ran into a mid level person at the USPS.
i just picked up from the mail carrier a complete m4 carbine kit from j&s sales. all but the lower in a nice little box. heck i think the last batch of lowers i had shipped to the FFL was shipped USPS too.
i did have to sign for it--thats it.
there shouldn't be a problem shipping an upper at all.:eek:
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