View Full Version : The myth of over lubrication.. wait.. is the LAV back with DD?
Honorthecall81
12-20-14, 18:04
Just caught a really good video about the myth of over lubrication from
the LAV. I love this video and finally I have been vindicated to some of
my friends and fellow shooters.
Also.. This video is dated Dec. 14th 2014. The LAV is sporting a DD hat
and DD rifle in the test. Could it be so?! Could the glory days of LAV
with DD be returned?! Is the universe restoring balance to the shooting
community?! Ok, but seriously guys.. did he leave BCM?
Here's the vid.. enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bOT_d60LM
dramabeats
12-20-14, 18:08
He's not "with" either of them, he supports and endorses quality. That's about it
But they didn't give the AR enough time to collect the dust and dirt! :cool:
But they didn't give the AR enough time to collect the dust and dirt! :cool:
Lol yeah. Drag it through the sand, then do a mag dump, bwahahhahahahaha.
to a degree, I have the same opinion as LAV.
Nightstalker865
12-20-14, 19:35
DD is one of the sponsors of the show.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's a machine I never understood the desire to run it dry, I was glad that LAV used the analogy of a vehicle being run with no oil. This is exactly how I always thought about running an AR without any.
I wasn't aware there was a significant problem with people under lubricating firearms. I thought the problem was everyone fighting over which lube was best.
I did honestly believe you were supposed to wipe out bore well to prevent lube interfering with bullet leaving barrel, but guess that was debunked for me as well.
MountainRaven
12-20-14, 21:04
I know what date the video was uploaded, but if I remember correctly, that video has been out for a long time. I remember seeing that on Tac-Tv last year if I remember right. Either way, good info.
I saw it a while ago. I assumed that it was made around the same time LAV did the DD torture tests.
I would've liked it better if the BCG got a bunch of that lube as well... and did this with a glock. Every glock armorer I know always cries about over lubrication
I remember it as well. It came up on some of the gun blogs, and I wondered why they were re-posting an old video.
I wasn't aware there was a significant problem with people under lubricating firearms. I thought the problem was everyone fighting over which lube was best.
I did honestly believe you were supposed to wipe out bore well to prevent lube interfering with bullet leaving barrel, but guess that was debunked for me as well.
Normally one should minimize oil and especially grease in the bore. If one wants maximum reliability, especially extraction, a VERY LIGHT coat of grease in the chamber only or on the cases is a good idea. The ideal is a weapon that runs fine without lubing the ammo, then lightly lube the cases only for very important times. Murphy's law!
yeah, this is an older video (back when LAV was doing a lot with DD). I haven't seen him use a DD rifle in a broadcast/public/commercial setting in some time.
I run my gear wet. I've never personally witnessed a problem associated with lubricant and its existence within a rifle.
Could someone please define "LAV" and "DD"?
Thanks....
Could someone please define "LAV" and "DD"?
Thanks....
LAV would be Larry Vickers, and DD is Daniel Defense.
Could someone please define "LAV" and "DD"?
Thanks....
That one threw me. Had to go back and look at your post count.
Eurodriver
12-21-14, 06:35
I'm thinking he chose the M9 and M4 to better influence military folk?
But from every one of my range days our armorers would walk around with a quart sized spray bottle of CLP and literally soak the inside of the upper receiver and BCG for you if you just asked.
So put me in the camp that also didn't know under lubrication was an issue.
I'm
I'm thinking he chose the M9 and M4 to better influence military folk?
But from every one of my range days our armorers would walk around with a quart sized spray bottle of CLP and literally soak the inside of the upper receiver and BCG for you if you just asked.
So put me in the camp that also didn't know under lubrication was an issue.
I think it was a hammer fired selection, over striker fired.
Oil filled striker channel in a GLOCK would lead to malfunction - to my limited understanding.
plouffedaddy
12-21-14, 07:22
Just caught a really good video about the myth of over lubrication from
the LAV. I love this video and finally I have been vindicated to some of
my friends and fellow shooters.
Also.. This video is dated Dec. 14th 2014. The LAV is sporting a DD hat
and DD rifle in the test. Could it be so?! Could the glory days of LAV
with DD be returned?! Is the universe restoring balance to the shooting
community?! Ok, but seriously guys.. did he leave BCM?
Here's the vid.. enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bOT_d60LM
Embedded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bOT_d60LM
plouffedaddy
12-21-14, 07:24
I'm
I think it was a hammer fired selection, over striker fired.
Oil filled striker channel in a GLOCK would lead to malfunction - to my limited understanding.
FWIW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-527BroPGI
LAV = Larry Vickers. He's a firearms instructor and 1911 guru.
DD = Daniel Defense. It's an ar15 manufacturer.
I could have sworn i saw this video before. I think it's just a re-up.
FWIW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-527BroPGI
Well...shame on me for perpetuating this myth! Thanks for the education...I will, in the most humble fashion, keep reading and observing :)
NWcityguy2
12-21-14, 12:12
It's not so much of a myth as it is a problem that was corrected a decade ago. Glock made some 21's with an undersized firing pin channel which, when oiled, caused light strikes. It is certainly not something worth worrying about nowadays.
Here is an old thread discussing the problem http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=167530
theorangecat
12-21-14, 13:18
Back before my public library started throwing out those low-tech things called "books" in order to make room for people to hold socialist meetings and use the WiFi gratis, they had a copy of one of Melvin M. Johnson, Jr's (inventor of the Johnson Semiautomatic Rifle, the Johnson LMG and the 5.7mm Spitfire cartridge for the M1 carbine) books published in 1944 or 1945, and one of the chapters was titled "Put Oil on It" (or words to that effect). It has been some time since I last read the book, but I recall that he was adamant even then that too much lube was far better than too little lube.
toc
HardToHandle
12-21-14, 13:41
After watching the video, I am underwhelmed.
On the face of it, a gas-operated gun probably isn't going to be compromised in 10 rounds when over lubricated.
I'm a "run 'em wet" guy, but that was a wasted 4:36 of my life.
He's not "with" either of them, he supports and endorses quality. That's about it
Basically this - BCM, DD, WC, Aimpoint, Glock, BFG, and others make stuff he likes, and he's happy to help them sell more of it. I get where he's coming from too - folks would buy stuff he knows to be worse, so why not help promote things that actually work? Rock on.
Believe it or not, the majority of firearm owners would rather under-lube stuff so that it's simpler to maintain, and then scratch their heads later when it won't run decent quantities of rounds... so these videos DO have use, we're (as in anybody on M4C who has spent more than 20 hours reading on this site) [are] just not the target audience.
After watching the video, I am underwhelmed.
On the face of it, a gas-operated gun probably isn't going to be compromised in 10 rounds when over lubricated.
I'm a "run 'em wet" guy, but that was a wasted 4:36 of my life.
IMO the words of wisdom, advice, and experience coming from the two guys on camera are the main point, while the 10 rounds of super-lubed shooting are just there to make it less boring.
He's not "with" either of them, he supports and endorses quality. That's about it
No, LAV has pointedly distanced himself from DD in the past. At least, on this forum. I saw him do it. Someone asked "What's a quality carbine?" or something, and he listed everyone EXCEPT for DD. Did he somehow just forget his former employet? No. I don't think so. There is a rift, there, IMO, based on personal observations.
elephantrider
12-21-14, 18:13
I could have sworn i saw this video before. I think it's just a re-up.
You are right, this was part of a TAC TV episode, and posted to Youtube, quite a long time ago. I guess no one saw the original airing/post because this seems to be making minor waves. The whole thing is nothing new and not that big a deal IMO. Is it really that tough to determine if a weapon is properly lubricated?
You are right, this was part of a TAC TV episode, and posted to Youtube, quite a long time ago. I guess no one saw the original airing/post because this seems to be making minor waves. The whole thing is nothing new and not that big a deal IMO. Is it really that tough to determine if a weapon is properly lubricated?
A LOT of people believe that only a thin coating in key areas should be used, and that 'too much' lube will attract dust/dirt (or allow dust/dirt that hits to stick in greater quantity) thus freezing up the gun.
A lot of those people are current or prior military and/or law enforcement. You can find them pretty much everywhere, and they don't care what LAV or anybody else says, they will even watch this video and discredit it because they didn't poor dust and dirt over the action after covering them in oil, and it was only 10 rounds.
That's why AR's should be piston-driven. If they were all piston-driven, they wouldn't need lubrication, because they would never get dirty or malfunction to begin with. That is why AK's rule third world countries.
This is the argument that I get from guys that I know with military experience, and are in no way my thoughts. These guys will not go against what someone told them sometime, somewhere back in the day. And it doesn't matter if I tell them different, or show them this video, or the filthy-14 article.
Old video. I think this video was from back when Tac TV was on like two years ago.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Berserkr556
12-21-14, 19:34
That's why AR's should be piston-driven. If they were all piston-driven, they wouldn't need lubrication, because they would never get dirty or malfunction to begin with. That is why AK's rule third world countries.
This is the argument that I get from guys that I know with military experience, and are in no way my thoughts. These guys will not go against what someone told them sometime, somewhere back in the day. And it doesn't matter if I tell them different, or show them this video, or the filthy-14 article.
I run into guys like that all of the time. I always tell them to pick up an AK manual and read the lube section. The Russians and Eastern European Nations who fielded the AK are strict about cleaning and lubing the rifle. The only people who don't clean and lube their AK is third world beasties and stupid Americans.
NWcityguy2
12-21-14, 20:13
A LOT of people believe that only a thin coating in key areas should be used, and that 'too much' lube will attract dust/dirt (or allow dust/dirt that hits to stick in greater quantity) thus freezing up the gun.
A lot of those people are current or prior military and/or law enforcement. You can find them pretty much everywhere, and they don't care what LAV or anybody else says, they will even watch this video and discredit it because they didn't poor dust and dirt over the action after covering them in oil, and it was only 10 rounds.
For starters, the test of submerging a gun in oil then shooting 10 rounds out of it doesn't simulate any real world scenario.
Secondly, for a patrol rifle, there isn't a point to putting on more than a thin film of CLP. Anything more is just going to leak out into your bag. It's not a civilian gun that gets lubed directly before and during shooting. Still though, I'll shoot hundreds of round with a light film of CLP and have no problems.
Thirdly, there is a very real reason they kept those guns away from any dirt while they were dripping wet with oil. Or why the magazines never touched the ground either.
For starters, the test of submerging a gun in oil then shooting 10 rounds out of it doesn't simulate any real world scenario.
Secondly, for a patrol rifle, there isn't a point to putting on more than a thin film of CLP. Anything more is just going to leak out into your bag. It's not a civilian gun that gets lubed directly before and during shooting. Still though, I'll shoot hundreds of round with a light film of CLP and have no problems.
Thirdly, there is a very real reason they kept those guns away from any dirt while they were dripping wet with oil. Or why the magazines never touched the ground either.
Because they would jam if they got dirt or dust on them?
NWcityguy2
12-21-14, 20:57
Not on them, in them.
Anything more is just going to leak out into your bag. It's not a civilian gun that gets lubed directly before and during shooting.
Who cares if some CLP leaks into your bag? As well, the fact that its "not a civilian gun that gets lubed directly before and during shooting" is even more of a reason to apply a generous amount of lubricant to the entire bolt and the rails of the carrier. Really, there is just zero reason not to. Nothing negative could happen, but you may end up in a situation where benefits might be realized. And your rifle will love you. I don't need to reapply lubricant during shooting unless im really whaling on it for some time.
NWcityguy2
12-21-14, 22:53
You're just messing with me, right?
I'll go to the range tomorrow and shoot 400 rounds out of my rifle that I haven't lubed in 2 weeks. My dept. issued me 56 rounds of duty ammo. I'm smart enough not to turn my bag into an oily mess. This is me talking from actual shooting experience.
Cops are civilians. ;)
My guns are drenched with oil and get dirty as hell. My mags get dropped in dirt and gravel. Somebody tell my guns they are supposed to be kept away from dirt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For starters, the test of submerging a gun in oil then shooting 10 rounds out of it doesn't simulate any real world scenario.
Secondly, for a patrol rifle, there isn't a point to putting on more than a thin film of CLP. Anything more is just going to leak out into your bag. It's not a civilian gun that gets lubed directly before and during shooting. Still though, I'll shoot hundreds of round with a light film of CLP and have no problems.
Thirdly, there is a very real reason they kept those guns away from any dirt while they were dripping wet with oil. Or why the magazines never touched the ground either.
The video wasn't a "test". It was hyperbole.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NWcityguy2
12-21-14, 23:11
Cops are civilians.
No one said they weren't.
Secondly, for a patrol rifle, there isn't a point to putting on more than a thin film of CLP. Anything more is just going to leak out into your bag. It's not a civilian gun that gets lubed directly before and during shooting. Still though, I'll shoot hundreds of round with a light film of CLP and have no problems.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you didn't understand the point Larry was making then nothing else we will say here is going to help you.
You're just messing with me, right?
I'll go to the range tomorrow and shoot 400 rounds out of my rifle that I haven't lubed in 2 weeks. My dept. issued me 56 rounds of duty ammo. I'm smart enough not to turn my bag into an oily mess. This is me talking from actual shooting experience.
NWcityguy2
12-21-14, 23:17
Thank you for your opinion.
BCM got wind Mr. Vickers stole a shrink ray from the Russians.
Rumor has it he shrunk their economy as well before hopping on a black helo back to the US.
http://ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Larry-Vickers-with-a-Arsenal-Firearms-Miniatures.jpg?98d800
MountainRaven
12-22-14, 00:21
No, LAV has pointedly distanced himself from DD in the past. At least, on this forum. I saw him do it. Someone asked "What's a quality carbine?" or something, and he listed everyone EXCEPT for DD. Did he somehow just forget his former employet? No. I don't think so. There is a rift, there, IMO, based on personal observations.
I remember that. I remember somebody specifically asked him about it and he said that he had a falling out and didn't want to say anything more than that.
I run into guys like that all of the time. I always tell them to pick up an AK manual and read the lube section. The Russians and Eastern European Nations who fielded the AK are strict about cleaning and lubing the rifle. The only people who don't clean and lube their AK is third world beasties and stupid Americans.
To be fair, though, most of those third world dwellers clean and lube their AKs, too. I believe CJ Chivers' book on the Kalashnikov, The Gun, has a couple of photographs of a Soviet Type III AK-47 that was taken off a dead Talib in Afghanistan. Everything was there and working, the exterior was in bad shape: Rusted steel, torn up wood. But the inside was immaculately clean and lubricated.
I lube the shit out of my duty gun and it gets dusty at our range. Never had a problem.
Last time I went shooting with some cops/"Glock armorers", I was told my 17 was too wet to be functioning properly and I only needed a single drop in the gun :rolleyes:
The fact more lube = particles kept in suspension only lead to them being defensive, there's no arguing with that mentality.
NWcityguy2
12-22-14, 19:39
Well I went out shooting today and amazingly (sarcasm), a thin film of CLP was more than enough to shoot the 400 rounds of ammo I had. Afterwards the only part of the BCG that was dry was around the gas ports. I'll be honest that it has been a long time since I've used CLP to lubricate my shooting glasses, clothes and magazines. I've realized since then that excessive oil just gets thrown off rather quickly.
Now I rarely shoot more than 500 rounds in a shooting session, but if I were to I'd just use lithium grease. That is something that you can actually put on a BCG in significant quantities without it transferring to everything else. In fact I used grease for a long time with good results. However I got tired of having to clean my gun soon afterwards, and just switched back to using oil.
Sometimes I forget the experience differences that can be found in any open venue. There was a time, back when I was in the Army, that I stood on the firing line as an NCO walked around with a spray bottle of CLP, wetting everyone's rifle down as he went. We all thought the guns needed to be soaking wet to get through a 40 round qualification when in reality the problem was we were using garbage hand me down magazines. I also use to think that you could tell if a magazine was good or bad based on the color of the follower. Live and learn right?
30566
30567
You're obviously not shooting enough.
I lube the shit out of my duty gun and it gets dusty at our range. Never had a problem.
NWcityguy2
12-22-14, 19:52
I know, right? :)
There are too many people especially in deployed scenarios who believe in the dry gun happy gun method. During one deployment I witnessed a colleague "lubing" his weapon with the graphite from a pencil so as not to attract dirt. When the weapon failed roughly 45 minutes later there was little thought given to the lack of lubricant. Graphite has a certain value, but I will stick with the wet stuff.
Nothing like an anecdote to make a shooter an expert.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Digital_Damage
12-22-14, 21:08
I'm sorry... but did the rigging belt make anyone else giggle just a little?
Nothing like an anecdote to make a shooter an expert.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You rock!! Generally I never thought of myself as an expert until I read a post by someone who thought that using an anecdote made you one.
You rock!! Generally I never thought of myself as an expert until I read a post by someone who thought that using an anecdote made you one.
Except I wasn't referring to you. ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My Dept. last qualification I had to mortar a SGTs rifle to remove stuck fired case he was of the no lubricant crowd he had fired about 15-20 rnds. I then I lubricated his rifle;) no further problems with it.
this is a dead horse topic... Nothing will change the minds of some. No amount of proof. The same SGT was pissed "the rifle don't need lubricant" :neo:
Straight Shooter
12-22-14, 23:58
My thoughts on the vid, and yall can piss & moan all you want.
1. WHY in hell would anyone ever use motor oil as a weapons lube, except in some kind of emergency/shtf scenario..Ill never understand. The shit stinks to high hell, and there are much better lubes out there that dont run all over and spray all over everything and everybody when the weapon is fired.
2. If you are firing your weapon, and getting massive amounts of lube all over your face, glasses, clothes, other people face, glasses or clothes, or if lube is literally dripping out of/off of your weapon, or when you remove a hangun from it cc position and you've got an oil slick on your clothes, ect...if you don't think that weapon isn't "overlubed", your an idiot.
3. Standing there over a tube full of weapons dropped in oil and saying "Oh just look at all the sand dirt & dust its attracting!" is about as realistic as a porn stars tits. I thought that was a very poor part of the video by men who know better and have "seen the elephant".
4. As for lube, I use grease...Tetra personally...but there are others as good or better. That way oil/lube isn't leaking out everywhere when weapons are stored and aint spraying shit everywhere when fired.
Overall, my thoughts on the video, it was a piss poor representation by knowledgeable men who have been there & done that...and could have done a much better, more professional job of trying to prove a point than they did. Ten rounds fired and standing over a tub full of motor oil soaked guns aint proved shit to me. Rant on...I give a shit.
Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?
Straight Shooter
12-23-14, 00:48
**** Cheerios. Those are for women & little kids. CAP'T ****IN CRUNCH for me sir.
I think some are completely missing the point given some of the comments here, and others are just wrong. They are not advocating running your weapon with that much lube on it. They are just showing you that your weapon will not self-destruct should you decide to lubricate it like you would any other machine. In fact, just as they illustrated, you cannot over-lube your weapon. And you don't have to treat it like Picasso's canvas, or cry because you get some on you.
Unfortunately you're are correct. Some people cannot digest what the video was about.
I think some are completely missing the point given some of the comments here, and others are just wrong. They are not advocating running your weapon with that much lube on it. They are just showing you that your weapon will not self-destruct should you decide to lubricate it like you would any other machine. In fact, just as they illustrated, you cannot over-lube your weapon. And you don't have to treat it like Picasso's canvas, or cry because you get some on you.
There's nothing wrong with motor oil as a weapons lube. I don't personally choose to use it but I know of plenty who do. It works just fine according to, well, everybody I can find who has used it. And it's definitely less expensive than the seemingly boutique lubes aimed at firearms owners.
But then I'm using either Slip, Fireclean, or FL at this time so maybe I'm the idjit wasting money on marketing
Motor oil has a very low flash point compared to firearm designed lubricants, and when shooting suppressed breathing in atomized motor oils isn't something I prefer, which is why I'm willing to spend a little more.
There's nothing wrong with motor oil as a weapons lube. I don't personally choose to use it but I know of plenty who do. It works just fine according to, well, everybody I can find who has used it. And it's definitely less expensive than the seemingly boutique lubes aimed at firearms owners.
But then I'm using either Slip, Fireclean, or FL at this time so maybe I'm the idjit wasting money on marketing
Mobile One went through a time of popularity with gun owners. The basic logic was, if the synthetic motor oil resists break down in hot engines, it should make for a good cost effective gun lube. I don't know where Mobile One is these days in the pecking order of legit gun lubes, but I think it was generally concluded motor oils lack all the qualities needed for quality gun lube. I'm no expert, but seemed an extensive discussion on lubes:
http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
I've used mobile 1 synthetic motor cycle oil for a long time with good results. It seems fine until you run suppressed. The Fireclean, Slip, etc is better but the M1 does work pretty good. It works better for me than CLP, which honestly sucks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There have been tests with all sorts of products being used, including Vagisil and even butter. The point is to use something, and it is one of the only times where it is ok to be liberal. I'm sure that they used motor oil in the video, because wasting a gallon of motor oil is much cheaper than any gun specific oil.
Mobile One went through a time of popularity with gun owners. The basic logic was, if the synthetic motor oil resists break down in hot engines, it should make for a good cost effective gun lube. I don't know where Mobile One is these days in the pecking order of legit gun lubes, but I think it was generally concluded motor oils lack all the qualities needed for quality gun lube. I'm no expert, but seemed an extensive discussion on lubes:
http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
That links says:
"Cut to the chase! What should I use?
Let's start with oil. Most people use oils that are way too heavy; thicker is not better! Use a relatively thin oil with the correct properties, and use it very sparingly - most "oil failures" I've seen have been from too much, rather than too little, oil."
And LAV disagrees. Guess everybody has to make up their own mind huh?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've used Mobil one, ATF, with no issues. I like fire clean as much as the next guy but 12$ per 2ounces gets old quick IMO. It'd be nice if it was available by the gallon with corresponding pricing.
And LAV disagrees. Guess everybody has to make up their own mind huh?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He disagrees with what?
That "most oil failures...from too much, rather than too little, oil"
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He disagrees with what?
If I follow, Vickers says that he sees more problems from too little lube than from too much.
That "most oil failures...from too much, rather than too little, oil"
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If I follow, Vickers says that he sees more problems from too little lube than from too much.
Gotcha. I thought you were inferring to what his views on specific lubricants being better than others are. ATF < Mobil one as example.
I tried Mobile 1 a year or so ago after I ran out of Slip 2k and the replacement bottle was like 30 bucks. I bought a quart of 10w 30 and haven't had any problems with it . Cleaning is a little harder than the Slip 2k but I have dedicated cleaners that work well.
Thank God someone is listening. If the world is ending, I don't give a shit, but it's not so I do.
I have had good luck with WeaponShield and Froglube. I treated all my stuff by dropping it in a crock pot for several hours. I let it drip dry and throw it all together.
Motor oil has a very low flash point compared to firearm designed lubricants, and when shooting suppressed breathing in atomized motor oils isn't something I prefer, which is why I'm willing to spend a little more.
If I follow, Vickers says that he sees more problems from too little lube than from too much.
I believe that was the point of the video.
Choose a lube and use enough to keep the carbines and pistols running.
Motor oil as a carcinogen, from what I understand, is AFTER it has been used, not before (in a vehicle). Just a datapoint as I understand it, not that I am a fan of motor oil, I prefer FIREClean.
I refuse to post in any Lube threads here!!
My lube of choice is spit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In the end I'd rather too much, then not enough.
What is with oil. Both cases with guns and motorcycles, get the same kind of questions, what's the best, what kind, what do you use.
My lube of choice is spit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's the Devil's lube!
Berserkr556
12-24-14, 18:26
I treated all my stuff by dropping it in a crock pot for several hours. I let it drip dry and throw it all together.
Would you be so kind as too share what setting you had your crock pot on ?
Merry Christmas.
Would you be so kind as too share what setting you had your crock pot on ?
Probably the MLC (Magpul Lubrication Crock).
My lube of choice is spit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great minds think alike.
Motor oil works well, better than most gun lubes like rem oil and crap. I used to use clp, let it dry then motor oil and it was really good. However, it's not close to froglube. I used it because it's cheap and I had it. I won't be going back.
On topic, I used to literally dip my bcg up to the cutout in oil, shake it out and call it good. Neither of my rifles malfunctiined.
I've fixed 3 guns with lube.
What is with oil. Both cases with guns and motorcycles, get the same kind of questions, what's the best, what kind, what do you use.
I don't know, but it's up there with religion and politics as a topic that can start a war of words (or even a real one). ;)
My attitude about oil, whether it's for guns, cars or motorcycles, is anything is always better than nothing.
I think it has two settings. It goes on HI until nice and hot and then to the low setting. Then I just allow it to hang out and bath for a few hours.
Would you be so kind as too share what setting you had your crock pot on ?
Merry Christmas.
Mobile 1 isn't going to give you cancer. Stop throwing that myth around. Flash point is irrelevant anyway, how do you know the incomplete combustion products from other lubes don't cause cancer?
Study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612787
wildcard600
12-25-14, 00:29
Mobile 1 isn't going to give you cancer. Stop throwing that myth around. Flash point is irrelevant anyway, how do you know the incomplete combustion products from other lubes don't cause cancer?
Study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612787
shhhh.... those $15 1/4 once bottles of lube arent going to sell themselves.
shhhh.... those $15 1/4 once bottles of lube arent going to sell themselves.
The biggest problem with fire clean and frog lube is that people use it and clean their guns every range trip. I'll probably use 1 $1.50 tube every 6 mo, so it's not that expensive.
Above poster is right about partial combustion products. Thats where most of the evil comes from in used motor oil. Mix with anything with cl and u r asking for major issues.. chloroform, phosgene, etc.
I don't know what these other lubes (frog lube, and fie clean) use but im assuming it's organic, so potential for evil is there. I wonder if it's a modified FAME, or something similar.
Outlander Systems
12-25-14, 08:52
Good God. Motor/Transmission Oil and a quality grease, available at your local AutoZone.
Over. Thinking. Things.
"Gun" oils are 100% marketing.
/endthread
Mobile 1 isn't going to give you cancer. Stop throwing that myth around. Flash point is irrelevant anyway, how do you know the incomplete combustion products from other lubes don't cause cancer?
Study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612787
Thanks for the link. The next time I hear the nonsense about Mobil 1 carcinogens in a carbine class, I am going to use this as a retort.
I'm certain one is more apt to get cancer from solar radiation in carbine classes than from lubrication.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good God. Motor/Transmission Oil and a quality grease, available at your local AutoZone.
Over. Thinking. Things.
"Gun" oils are 100% marketing.
/endthread
ATF and motor oil makes me nauseous. Froglube does not
/endthread
ATF and motor oil makes me nauseous. Froglube does not
/endthread
And armorers prefer the taste of Froglube over any other, as well. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Olive oil, KY, amphibian grease, fireclean, just don't run it dry.
Check out this new LAV video about lube and fireclean
http://youtu.be/S0OAsOCEJfQ
Check out this new LAV video about lube and fireclean
http://youtu.be/S0OAsOCEJfQ
Interesting video. If more debris, etc., is leaving the muzzle, how much more smoke and debris will obscure your line of sight to target when firing multiple rounds from a fixed position? Does anyone have any real world experience with this?
I was kind of wondering how much more gas is going to be choking me and being blow in my face while shooting suppressed.
Can someone imbed the video? I'm not sure how to do that on my iphone.
Interesting video. If more debris, etc., is leaving the muzzle, how much more smoke and debris will obscure your line of sight to target when firing multiple rounds from a fixed position? Does anyone have any real world experience with this?
I don't buy those tests for a second. If you want to claim fire clean is better for cleaning up (suspends carbon) awesome, good proven claim at this point.
Saying that, based on the high speed video of N=1 or 2 per case (test variable) x is true, is bad reasoning. You get more ejecta variation between rounds within a box of ammo than anything else.
plouffedaddy
12-27-14, 21:42
I was kind of wondering how much more gas is going to be choking me and being blow in my face while shooting suppressed.
Can someone imbed the video? I'm not sure how to do that on my iphone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0OAsOCEJfQ&feature=youtu.be
plouffedaddy
12-27-14, 21:45
I don't buy those tests for a second. If you want to claim fire clean is better for cleaning up (suspends carbon) awesome, good proven claim at this point.
Saying that, based on the high speed video of N=1 or 2 per case (test variable) x is true, is bad reasoning. You get more ejecta variation between rounds within a box of ammo than anything else.
Indeed. To add some more evidence to the debate----the 11.5'' SBR in the video below has only been cleaned/lubed with FC and the 16'' rifle and Tavor have had CLP. There are points in the video where you can see the difference but that wasn't the point of the video at all so I didn't focus on getting tight shots. Figure more evidence couldn't hurt....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vLJqjVVudU
sinlessorrow
12-28-14, 15:28
I don't buy those tests for a second. If you want to claim fire clean is better for cleaning up (suspends carbon) awesome, good proven claim at this point.
Saying that, based on the high speed video of N=1 or 2 per case (test variable) x is true, is bad reasoning. You get more ejecta variation between rounds within a box of ammo than anything else.
Agreed, the tests are just a way to sell a product to those who do not know different.
Wow, 15 pages about lube. Know how I can tell when my guns are overlubricated? When there's so much oil spray on my glasses that I can no longer see the target! This condition remedies itself as shooting progresses (and I clean my glasses). After trying all kinds of lubes, I've settled on Froglube, if for no other reason than it's minty fresh and I can use some of the excess as lip balm.
I use Mobil 1. Been using it for the past 20 years. I keep them wet just the piston dry. 1/3 0W30 1/3 gear oil and 1/3 STP oil treatment. It has a honey like texture and it stays where you put it at 400 deg F or down to -25. Never waist your $$ on " magic gun lube". You should place your " magic gun lube" in the freezer for 24 hours and then see how good it lubes. I laugh.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Larry Vickers
12-30-14, 22:37
That segment was from an older episode of TacTV - season two in fact
So it is over 3 years old or so ? It's just a new segment to my YouTube channel
LAV, I know that it will pain you to do so, but will you please just confirm for those here that disagree, that the liberal use of lubrication is what that video illustrated over three years ago?
BuzzinSATX
12-30-14, 23:48
How about you just read his BLOG note: http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/weapon-lubrication/
BuzzinSATX
12-30-14, 23:49
Wow, 15 pages about lube. Know how I can tell when my guns are overlubricated? When there's so much oil spray on my glasses that I can no longer see the target! This condition remedies itself as shooting progresses (and I clean my glasses). After trying all kinds of lubes, I've settled on Froglube, if for no other reason than it's minty fresh and I can use some of the excess as lip balm.
LOL! That's some expensive lip balm...
I wasn't aware there was a significant problem with people under lubricating firearms. I thought the problem was everyone fighting over which lube was best.
I did honestly believe you were supposed to wipe out bore well to prevent lube interfering with bullet leaving barrel, but guess that was debunked for me as well.
I was taught to use very little lubrication. The opposite is true!
For my rifle use (primarily toys), I'm not too concerned about what I use. The only problem I've had regarding cleaning/lubrication was when I used uncoated lead ammo in my Ruger MkIII and the barrel leaded up, resulting in keyholing at 7yd. It was still shooting fine, but I noticed bigger groups than I should have been getting and took a closer look at the target.
Guys, I just want to point out the last post in this thread is six months old. Let's let it die.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.