Newb advice needed - Long distance gun and hunting rifle

[skywalkrNCSU]

I am new to both the hunting world and the long distance shooting world but I would like to get into both and with the same rifle if possible. I know little to nothing about bolt guns and I see drastically different prices among different guns and could use some advice. It looks like a good caliber option would be 300 WSM as my research shows it performs well in distance shooting and would be more than adequate in taking down deer (would be what I hunt most) along with elk (a dream hunt that I hope to take in a few years).

Where I could use some advice is I am looking for something that I could upgrade as I go rather than spending a bunch on a custom rig right off the bat. Is that even possible with bolt guns? I would say my budget without optics is around $1500 (the lower the better obviously) and I haven't really seen a custom build anywhere near this low but there are plenty of decent hunting rifles for well under this amount. I am willing to sacrifice some weight for performance since the only time I would be lugging it around is on the dream elk hunt since most of my deer hunting would be on 100 acres.

I am not really sure where to start, should I just get an off the shelf hunting rifle and change the barrel, trigger, and stock as I go or buy a barreled action and stock and have someone install it for me? Am I way off on all of this and should I just get a hunting rifle for hunting and when I can afford a long distance rig get a custom built rifle? Apologies for the ignorance here, any advice is appreciated.

[Servo]

I am new to both the hunting world and the long distance shooting world but I would like to get into both and with the same rifle if possible. I know little to nothing about bolt guns and I see drastically different prices among different guns and could use some advice. It looks like a good caliber option would be 300 WSM as my research shows it performs well in distance shooting and would be more than adequate in taking down deer (would be what I hunt most) along with elk (a dream hunt that I hope to take in a few years).

Where I could use some advice is I am looking for something that I could upgrade as I go rather than spending a bunch on a custom rig right off the bat. Is that even possible with bolt guns? I would say my budget without optics is around $1500 (the lower the better obviously) and I haven't really seen a custom build anywhere near this low but there are plenty of decent hunting rifles for well under this amount. I am willing to sacrifice some weight for performance since the only time I would be lugging it around is on the dream elk hunt since most of my deer hunting would be on 100 acres.

I am not really sure where to start, should I just get an off the shelf hunting rifle and change the barrel, trigger, and stock as I go or buy a barreled action and stock and have someone install it for me? Am I way off on all of this and should I just get a hunting rifle for hunting and when I can afford a long distance rig get a custom built rifle? Apologies for the ignorance here, any advice is appreciated.

I have been shooting long range for little over a year now so while I'm relatively new to the sport, the thought on how to start out is still fresh in my mind. The following are merely suggestions on what I would do if I were in your shoes.

First off is caliber: 300 wsm has great long range performance with lots of energy at range. However it does so at the expense of burning lots of power, and has pretty stout recoil. I also feel it's a bit much for deer hunting and really expensive to practice regularly with. Smaller calibers with higher ballistic coefficients like 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem, and 7mm-08 have basically the same trajectory with less recoil and powder use. Calibers like .308 Win. and .223 (not that I would recommend .223 for deer) will teach you more about reading the wind and figuring range more accurately. If you plan on hunting deer sized game at longer ranges 350+ yards MY pic would be basicly any 6.5mm, 7mm-08 or .308, but that's just me.

Second the rifle: You can most definitely upgrade the rifle as you go. I'd venture to say that's how most start out. My pick for an off the rack rifle would be a Remington 5R in .308. Little on the heavy side compared with your average hunting rifle, but it has a much better barrel and stock and by all accounts, they seem to shoot rather well.(no personal experience with the 5R, just going off trusted sources and how I'd do it over myself.) when you're ready you can send it off to a smith and have it re barreled in any caliber with the same bolt face size as a .308 that can fit in a short action; there are lots of options.

Optics: I know you didn't mention any thing about this. Buy the absolute best scope you can afford. It is what aims your rifle and choosing sup par equipment is not a good idea. I must track consistently and hold zero. I know it seems obvious but I see people cheap out on this all the time. Same goes for rings and bases. Mounting a high quality scope on the shittiest rings and base you can find is another obvious bad idea.

Shoot long range and practice as often as you can. Go to matches and learn from other people.

[tuck]

Since you're new to the long range thing, I would recommend you start with a rifle chambered in .308win. It's more than capable to take deer and elk sized game. There is also a plethora of factory loaded match-grade ammunition available for it.

As far was what rifle to buy, I would look heavily at offerings from Remington or Savage. They both have tons of aftermarket support should you choose to upgrade parts down the line.

[MBtech]

308 will do everything you are asking for.

I'm a fan of Rem 700, a ton of options and upgrades out there.

For $1500 you could have one heck of a set up to look forward to, and be ready to hunt as is no problem out of the box in the first place, you can upgrade as you go, it will do more than fine for deer or elk hunting.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Thanks all, it looks like .308 is my best option for the reasons noted. As far as that goes, any advice on barrel length? I see a lot of the barrels are 20" in the tactical models but I wasn't sure if I should go longer for hunting purposes or not. I believe it is the case that longer barrel = more velocity which would make for more power at longer distances but I could definitely be wrong there.

[MBtech]

Thanks all, it looks like .308 is my best option for the reasons noted. As far as that goes, any advice on barrel length? I see a lot of the barrels are 20" in the tactical models but I wasn't sure if I should go longer for hunting purposes or not. I believe it is the case that longer barrel = more velocity which would make for more power at longer distances but I could definitely be wrong there.

A 20" barrel will be fine for hunting IMO, and a little easier to pack around in the woods. I went with the Rem 700 AAC SD with a 20" threaded barrel planning for the same reasons you are, deer/elk, and intro to long range with upgrades in the future. I would not hesitate to take it on a hunt as is.

[tuck]

I hunt with a 20" R700. It'll kill the hell out of deer, and punch holes in paper at 1,000 yards just fine.

[wingspar]

What about a Savage Hog Hunter in .308? It is built on the same action and barrel as the Savage 10 FP. The big difference (as far as I can understand at this point in time) between the two is that the Hog Hunter comes with iron sights and is of course drilled for scope bases. Another difference from the 10 FP is that the Hog Hunter is threaded for a muzzle device. Wonderful trigger out of the box also. So, while the 10 FP is probably thought of as more of a long range gun, I don’t see why the Hog Hunter would be any less accurate at up to 800 yards from what I’ve read. Thoughts?

[MBtech]

What about a Savage Hog Hunter in .308? It is built on the same action and barrel as the Savage 10 FP. The big difference (as far as I can understand at this point in time) between the two is that the Hog Hunter comes with iron sights and is of course drilled for scope bases. Another difference from the 10 FP is that the Hog Hunter is threaded for a muzzle device. Wonderful trigger out of the box also. So, while the 10 FP is probably thought of as more of a long range gun, I don’t see why the Hog Hunter would be any less accurate at up to 800 yards from what I’ve read. Thoughts?

The price is nice on that rifle, and depending on the budget leaves a lot of room for an optic

[pyrotechnic]

I'm going to second the R700 suggestion. The 20" sps tactical will give you a good balance between shootability and weight/size for hunting.
I don't reccomend Savages due to my own experience with what I believe to be a sub par extractor/ejector design. However others swear by them. They generally do shoot well. They used to be the cheaper alternative to Remington but thr price gap has pretty much become non existent.

Another option could be the Tikka CTR. It has growing after market support. If you reload the .260 is a definite step up in ballistics from the .308 with no increase in reloading cost and a slight decrease in barrel life.

[pyrotechnic]

There is a thread a couple posts below yours on the CTR

[wilson1911]

I would look at the 6.5 creedmoor.
Actions are all over the place, but a Remington will grant you more upgrades later down the road.
stocks are a different story, one mans gold is anothers bain.
get something you do not have to reload for yet, that will come in time after you decide if its for you or not.
do not worry about barrel length atm, you have too many other things to learn. Just make sure its around 20-24 and run with it. Your going to shoot it out anyway.

A safe bet would be the 308 on a rem action, if that's what you decide, get a used one. After you shoot a while, you will see what is right for YOU, not the rest of us. Be sure to shoot all your friends guns !
A better decision would be 6.5 creed, I am saying this because I just got mine. Talk about a laser beam !!! and it's good out to 1200 easy. Mine recoils only a little more than an AR.

Just consider this.....your first gun will be a throw away gun. What you decide you like may be entirely different than you bought the first time. A rem 700 action can always be re-barreled into something else. My best advise is spend $500 on a gun and get a $1000 scope, a vortex pst is great for a beginner. Then go shoot the barrel out.

When you come back here you will have learned lots. I go to Dallas about once a month. I can PM you and let you shoot my creed sometime of you would like.

[Pappabear]

Another vote for rem700 5R in 308. I have one and love it. Get the threaded barrel and you can put a brake on it. Later you could buy a lightweight hunting gun when money permits. But you could hunt with the 5R.

As money permits:
Timney trigger
Bedding job

[ace4059]

Op,
You need to ask yourself a few questions. I know you said you want a long range rifle and a hunting rifle but there are several things to consider first.
What do you consider long range? What distances are you wanting to shoot? What groupings are you wanting? Paper punching for the smallest groups or pinging metal gongs?
Next, do you reload? Have you looked at the price of larger caliber ammo? Can you afford to shoot a few boxes a week? Can you handle the recoil?

I have a few large magnums and I very rarely shoot them. I now only use them for hunting because of the cost of ammo and I just hate shooting a box of ammo due to the recoil. My two go to calibers for target and hunting are .223 and .308. They are inexpensive to reload, they group well and I can shoot them at distance. I shoot my .223 to 600 yrds regularly at metal targets. Furtherest I've shot it was out to 800 yrds. I shoot the 308 out to 1000 yrds.

I have lighter guns for hunting and the target guns are heavier. I would hate to be carrying the targets guns around all day hunting with them. For hunting I would choose the 308 and for target I would choose the 223. I know you want one gun to do both and without your answers to the above question I would just recommend a 308. My bolt 223's are my favorite guns to shoot because I can afford to shoot 50+ rds each range trip and can go to the range with them twice a week without the bruising on my shoulder from the 300 wsm.

I was a believer in savages. I loved the accuracy out of the box. They were more accurate the the 700's I had and didn't require work to make them 1 hole accurate unlike the 700's. My 700's will now shoot as accurate as my savages but they cost me 2x to 3x as much due to all the work I've had done. But I hate to say it, but I will not recommend a savage to anyone nor buy another savage due their CS and the way I was treated when I purchased a 308 5r that was prethreaded. The threads were not concentric to the bore causing baffle strikes and there cs would not re thread the barrel under warranty. I was told I "voided the warranty" by attaching a muzzle break and suppressor myself. They said I should have mailed the gun and aac 51t in and had them attach it to be covered by the warranty. They said there barrel was not built to have a suppressor on them and I asked then why sell a prethreaded barrel. I had to have it rethreaded for about $100. Hints me recommending the Remington's from here on out.

[A2s rule]

The suggestions so far have been right on.....but don't overlook the 260 rem. A little harder to find a rifle chambered in it and factory ammo is nowhere near what 308 is but can still be found. But once you get into long range shooting, the next step is reloading and 6.5mm bullets are abundant and the 260 case is just a necked down 308.
I only say this because 6.5mm bullets will whoop up on a 308 once you get out there in range. Its also a great deer round.
But the 308 is probably the best choice for your start up and can do just about anything you want it to. For hunting you don't want to shoot at game any further than the capabilities of your bullet. If it won't open up at under 2000 fps than you need to figure at what range that is and not shoot deer past it.
Every bullet is different. As far as target shooting, some people get to a mile on targets with the 308 so its very capable.
If you're going to customize it as you go then the Rem700 and 2nd would be Savage.
For straight out of the box do nothing to it, then Savage for sure. (I personally love winchester M70's..but not too much for customizing)

[MBtech]

Where I could use some advice is I am looking for something that I could upgrade as I go rather than spending a bunch on a custom rig right off the bat. Is that even possible with bolt guns? I would say my budget without optics is around $1500 (the lower the better obviously) and I haven't really seen a custom build anywhere near this low but there are plenty of decent hunting rifles for well under this amount. I am willing to sacrifice some weight for performance since the only time I would be lugging it around is on the dream elk hunt since most of my deer hunting would be on 100 acres.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/centerfire-tactical/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx

Ready to hunt right out of the box, under $700, get a heck of a nice scope with that $1500 budget. Harris bi pod, a sling and go hunt.
Upgrade to your liking, stock, chassis, bedding, trigger, action muzzle brake, suppressor etc...on and on...

That's just the way I went on a similar plan and budget. Still no other upgrades on mine, but I love the rifle as is to take hunting.

[Servo]

Some thing worth else worth looking at would be a FN/Winchester Model 70 SPR. An often under appreciated choice.

[masan]

Another vote for the model 700 in .308, it will offer lots of room to grow as you learn. My .02 cents would concern ammunition, how are you going to feed this gun? Factory ammunition has its limits, and if you truly want to be able to shoot at range you will be putting a lot of rounds down your barrel(s). I do not know if you load or not, so my input would be to make one of your first investments after getting your gun/glass (good glass is a must) is to set yourself up to hand load. You can experiment to find what your gun likes best in terms of compenents and will likely save yourself $ on ammo which you can then put back into the gun further down the road.

[skywalkrNCSU]

I reload so ammo isn't an issue for me. I am thinking the Remington is going to likely be my best bet as I will be able to afford the gun and some decent glass, otherwise I will have to put off the scope for a while and use one of my basic ones. Another option I am thinking about on the higher end is a Kimberly tactical. My brother in-law has one and it is an absolute tac driver. Would be a bit more pricey obviously but wouldn't need much done to enhance it either.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Ended up getting a Remington 700 SPS Tac AAC-SD today. Going to put a Vortex PST 4-16 on it and get to shooting. I found a range about an hour away that teaches long range precision courses so I hope to get some real instruction. There is a range closer (only 100 yards) that I can use to dial in some handloads. Thanks everyone for the help, I am sure I will be back with plenty of questions.

[wingspar]

Ended up getting a Remington 700 SPS Tac AAC-SD today. Going to put a Vortex PST 4-16 on it and get to shooting. I found a range about an hour away that teaches long range precision courses so I hope to get some real instruction. There is a range closer (only 100 yards) that I can use to dial in some handloads. Thanks everyone for the help, I am sure I will be back with plenty of questions.

I’m the guy that suggested a Savage Hog Hunter in .308 earlier in this thread, even tho I have zero experience with the Hog Hunter or the .308, but I ordered the Hog Hunter today and some cheap range ammo to get used to the gun with. The gun has gone to shipping, so if I’m lucky, I’ll see it before the end of the week. Have not decided on a scope yet. Ammo arrives on Friday. I assume you went with .308?

[skywalkrNCSU]

I’m the guy that suggested a Savage Hog Hunter in .308 earlier in this thread, even tho I have zero experience with the Hog Hunter or the .308, but I ordered the Hog Hunter today and some cheap range ammo to get used to the gun with. The gun has gone to shipping, so if I’m lucky, I’ll see it before the end of the week. Have not decided on a scope yet. Ammo arrives on Friday. I assume you went with .308?

Yep .308, it just made the most sense. Maybe if I really get into the precision shooting thing I will move up to a bigger cartridge but for now this should be more than enough.

[Supergyro]

Get a 308 with a 1-11 twist. Buy factory Lapua 155 ammo to start. Keep the brass. Pat Sinclair has killed everything in North America with that bullet.

[kevN]

If you shoot the heck out of your R700 or really get into the precision realm and want to upgrade your barrel you could have your gun re-barreled to 6.5 creedmore or .260 Remington later on.

[skimbleshanks]

Tikka t3 is a decent rifle for what you are after too. Not as much out there as there is for rems and savages but what you would eventualy need is there.