View Full Version : "What's the clip for, buddy?"
Eurodriver
12-27-14, 20:41
Was out at an establishment last night and stopped in the restroom for a minute. As I was walking in a guy was washing his hands. When I turned to head toward the stalls he glanced at my back and immediately said "what's the clip for"
Knowing that guns were most certainly banned at this location and the law is vague about whether it was actually legal here.
I was completely blind sided and just didn't respond. Luckily he didn't push the issue and left. What would you have said? Is there a holster that would conceal better than this with a tucked in shirt?
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps9912aadb.jpg
The link didn't work.
I probably would've ignored him too. Or, just said, "Clip? What clip? I don't know what you're talking about. I don't have a clip."
You're not lying.
At least he was washing his hands. Grosses me out when I see dudes not washing their hands after going to the can.
Don Robison
12-27-14, 20:56
Look into some of the holsters that offer a "J" clip. Dale Fricke makes most of my holsters and offers J clips on some, but Comp-Tac and a few others do as well. The j clip goes between your pants and belt and hooks the bottom of your belt.
ETA: http://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/joshua-covert-tuckable-kydex-holster/
Tell him "It's a magazine, not a clip".
In the future, in NPEs, wear a velcro tuckable holster attachment module.
Ignoring is probably the best response. Answering in any way invites more discussion. Don't engage.
Wear a sport coat.
-john
The best answer is " its for my colostomy bag".
Whiskey_Bravo
12-27-14, 21:12
I couldn't get your link to work but if it's anything like mine the guy wasn't referring to the mag/clip, he was referring to the clips/loops that hold your tucked holster so that you can have a holstered gun with a tucked in shirt.
Just tell him it holds your colonoscopy bag, promise it will shut him up.
Edit: sjc3081 beat me to it by couple of minutes.
Link worked for me. Not low enough profile for my tastes - I'd be looking at a J hook with Velcro on the back of the belt.
I would get a holster that uses a j hook, if you wear your shirt tucked in on a regular basis. You could probably get away with the current clip, if you used a black belt, but in the pic it really stands out with the brown.
I see it now. Had to switch to 'web view' from Tapatalk. I don't see an issue with it. Maybe a black belt would've concealed it better or untuck your shirt more over it.
Definitely ignoring him was your best bet.
MountainRaven
12-27-14, 22:15
Might try wearing a Leatherman pouch with Leatherman on your belt to hide or camouflage the clip.
Or...how about a snagmag?
http://www.snagmag.com/
First thing I'd do is find out what the consequences are for ignoring a "no guns" zone in that state. Then I'd re-read the law pertaining to "printing".
Was out at an establishment last night and stopped in the restroom for a minute. As I was walking in a guy was washing his hands. When I turned to head toward the stalls he glanced at my back and immediately said "what's the clip for"
Knowing that guns were most certainly banned at this location and the law is vague about whether it was actually legal here.
I was completely blind sided and just didn't respond. Luckily he didn't push the issue and left. What would you have said? Is there a holster that would conceal better than this with a tucked in shirt?
Hope this link works
http://rs1328.pbsrc.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps9912aadb.jpg~320x480
That's a sore thumb and unsat. Discard or camouflage before reuse. Mount an old pager, pouch, or something else traditionally belt-mounted to it.
This is a great example of how even discreet objects hidden in plain sight should be associated with something else. If they have no obvious meaning or association, they'll be questioned. An empty clip that holds nothing, seems to do nothing, and is different than everything else invites scrutiny.
CleverNickname
12-27-14, 22:56
Is there a holster that would conceal better than this with a tucked in shirt?
I've used tucked holsters with normal belt loops, then went to velcro attachments on a belt with velcro loops on the inside. Now I'm using the Crossbreed modular bellyband, which doesn't have anything at all showing externally when covered by a tucked shirt.
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/HotcakesStore/ProductViewer/tabid/113/slug/Modular-Belly-Band/Default.aspx
I try to avoid carrying tucked when possible though, because drawing from under a tucked shirt is really slow and awkward. I prefer an untucked shirt, a sweatshirt, a sweater, a sport jacket or anything other than a tucked shirt, but sometimes there really isn't avoiding it.
I seem to recall that the in FL the only places where ccw is verboten are bars that serve no food (only liquor), sporting events, schools, and government buildings. Owners of establishments can post no guns allowed, but there is nothing illegal about going into those establishments while armed. Is this incorrect? It has been over 10 years since I took my FL ccw course.
As to how I would have handled to situation, I would have either ignored the comment or pretended to only speak Dutch.
.
What would you have said?
"It holds my keys"
"It holds my keys"
Reported function should be consistent with appearance. That's not any kind of key-carrier most have ever seen.
wildcard600
12-27-14, 23:38
"oh shit, i must have lost my pager ! hope nobody goes into labor soon."
Tell him "It's a magazine, not a clip".
In the future, in NPEs, wear a velcro tuckable holster attachment module.
He was talking about the clip that holds the holster to the belt.
Get something on your belt to camo/fit over it. Cell phone or pager cover comes to mind.
Eurodriver
12-28-14, 01:10
I seem to recall that the in FL the only places where ccw is verboten are bars that serve no food (only liquor), sporting events, schools, and government buildings. Owners of establishments can post no guns allowed, but there is nothing illegal about going into those establishments while armed. Is this incorrect? It has been over 10 years since I took my FL ccw course.
As to how I would have handled to situation, I would have either ignored the comment or pretended to only speak Dutch.
It was a bar that served food, but I still don't know the regulation on this. Isn't it a certain percentage of revenue that is food?
Eurodriver
12-28-14, 01:12
That's a sore thumb and unsat. Discard or camouflage before reuse. Mount an old pager, pouch, or something else traditionally belt-mounted to it.
This is a great example of how even discreet objects hidden in plain sight should be associated with something else. If they have no obvious meaning or association, they'll be questioned. An empty clip that holds nothing, seems to do nothing, and is different than everything else invites scrutiny.
Absolutely agree that it is unsat. But what was I to do? Go unarmed?
This guy was probably an LEO from his tone, cbiz lets be realistic because 90% of people out there would never notice it.
I would rather get a j clip than mount a beeper to it as sometimes I don't have a tucked in shirt and don't want that getting in the way.
My only over-hook holster is an appendix carry. When I wear it tucked (rare), I camouflage the hook by placing it behind the bitter end of my belt, or close to the buckle.
In your case, carrying in a more traditional IWB, I'll agree with the echo chamber about using either j-hooks or matching the hook to some other item that would belong on a belt, like a multi-tool, cell phone holster, etc. Pagers and colostomy bags can be good camouflage or excuses, but like the "key holder" idea, they can invite further scrutiny or a potential challenge to your ruse.
Sometimes, a pocket or ankle gun is your best bet.
With my minotaur I always match the clip color to the belt color. Significantly less noticeable that way.
Averageman
12-28-14, 08:55
I would become familiar with the law first and go fom there.
You did the right thing by not comming back with an answer, just take care of business and move on, but you might want to take another look at your CC options.
As much as I hate it, my belly band is often the most secure way I can carry in places where there might be a question.
MorphCross
12-28-14, 09:26
"oh shit, i must have lost my pager ! hope nobody goes into labor soon."
I like this one.
I personally just wear a black belt which camouflages the black snap loops. This time of year it's even easier just to keep the coat or jacket on over the whole but for those who live in warmer states it becomes more difficult.
As far as I recall for Missouri, if a member of management at a place that has a properly posted sign asks you to leave because of your cw you are obligated to leave, otherwise they can have you hauled out and cited for trespassing.
Sport coat or windbreaker. Looking at the pic I'd be just as concerned about the printing as the clip.
MountainRaven
12-28-14, 10:26
Absolutely agree that it is unsat. But what was I to do? Go unarmed?
This guy was probably an LEO from his tone, cbiz lets be realistic because 90% of people out there would never notice it.
I would rather get a j clip than mount a beeper to it as sometimes I don't have a tucked in shirt and don't want that getting in the way.
Unless I'm missing something, you should just leave the pager off when you leave your shirt untucked or when wearing another cover garment.
I like this one.
I personally just wear a black belt which camouflages the black snap loops. This time of year it's even easier just to keep the coat or jacket on over the whole but for those who live in warmer states it becomes more difficult.
As far as I recall for Missouri, if a member of management at a place that has a properly posted sign asks you to leave because of your cw you are obligated to leave, otherwise they can have you hauled out and cited for trespassing.
I'm pretty sure that anybody who isn't comfortable with you having a gun can ask you to leave for whatever reason. And if you don't, it is trespassing.
1_click_off
12-28-14, 10:32
What you packing there? Mark23 with a LAM?
J clips are a really good option here.
Some restaurants carry two licenses. Like chilies and Applebee's have a license for the bar area and the dinning area is covered under a seperate license. The bar in my state is a no carry zone and the dining area is gtg.
But you handled it right with no response to the question.
I seem to recall that the in FL the only places where ccw is verboten are bars that serve no food (only liquor), sporting events, schools, and government buildings. Owners of establishments can post no guns allowed, but there is nothing illegal about going into those establishments while armed. Is this incorrect? It has been over 10 years since I took my FL ccw course.
As to how I would have handled to situation, I would have either ignored the comment or pretended to only speak Dutch.
It was a bar that served food, but I still don't know the regulation on this. Isn't it a certain percentage of revenue that is food?
If 51% of the profits come from food then it is considered a restaurant. If the establishment is a bar that has some finger foods then you can get in trouble for carrying in there if you get caught.
If an establishment posts a no guns allowed sign (The only place I've seen one is local hospitals) all they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse they can have you trespassed from the property and as long as the trespass order stands (usually 12 months) then you will be arrested if you return to the property.
All the statutes can be found at myflorida.gov under section 791. I'd post a link but my tablet is dying.
Tuckable holster carried AIWB with the buckle over the clip.
That, or pocket carry a J-frame.
EDIT: You have a pet tiger? BAMF.
CleverNickname
12-28-14, 11:48
I like this one.
Who uses a pager any more?
Not sure what brand of holster you have, but I use these:
http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=79
For me they have worked better then j-clips.
FS 790.06 (12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
Seems ambiguous to me, I'd be careful.
Or...how about a snagmag?
http://www.snagmag.com/
Yup right there! It is the heat!
1_click_off
12-28-14, 12:56
FS 790.06 (12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
Seems ambiguous to me, I'd be careful.
I know we are getting off topic from OP, but think this is where the duel licensed areas in the establishment falls. The bar is primarily devoted and licensed to dispense and consume, the dining area is not. Dinning area is primarily devoted to dining with allowed consumption. .
MountainRaven
12-28-14, 12:58
Who uses a pager any more?
My father is a volunteer firefighter and he is issued a pager.
You could say it's for a cell phone / walkie talkie / gps / code reader because of your work.
I would have ignored it. I have mentioned in passing, and without opening up dialogue (because I really don't care), "You're printing" and walked off.
vicious_cb
12-28-14, 14:44
Brown belt, khakis and a checkered light colored shirt is what made your belt clip stick out like a sore thumb. Matching colors isnt just for women and metrosexuals. At the least use a black belt.
Someone should make an iwb holster whose clip is actually made to also hold a cell phone or whatever.
We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. I didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
SeriousStudent
12-28-14, 20:33
We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. I didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
Abe, you are a living legend.
Signed,
An unreformed pager carrier.
Reported function should be consistent with appearance. That's not any kind of key-carrier most have ever seen.
The reported function has a passing simliarity in appearance to commonly available key holding mechanisms. Upon the cursory glance that most men are going to take while standing in a restroom facility that is intended for the male gender, the given answer for the item's intended function will mostly suffice for an explanation of the item's intended purpose.
http://www.nevesuniforms.com/images/products/productZT52large.jpg
http://www.qmuniforms.com/photos/styles/qm/ZOOM/S69-2462.JPG
Cincinnatus
12-28-14, 23:34
We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. I didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
One of my favorite Simpsons quotes.
Eurodriver
12-29-14, 06:43
With my minotaur I always match the clip color to the belt color. Significantly less noticeable that way.
I think this would have helped a lot.
Sport coat or windbreaker. Looking at the pic I'd be just as concerned about the printing as the clip.
What you packing there? Mark23 with a LAM?
The amount of twisting and turning to get that pic taken was really hard. It actually didn't print at all...aside from that clip. Unless I was twisting my upper body all the way to the right and down while taking a selfie of my ass, I was pretty safe from being outed.
If 51% of the profits come from food then it is considered a restaurant. If the establishment is a bar that has some finger foods then you can get in trouble for carrying in there if you get caught.
If an establishment posts a no guns allowed sign (The only place I've seen one is local hospitals) all they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse they can have you trespassed from the property and as long as the trespass order stands (usually 12 months) then you will be arrested if you return to the property.
All the statutes can be found at myflorida.gov under section 791. I'd post a link but my tablet is dying.
FS 790.06 (12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
Seems ambiguous to me, I'd be careful.
The thread I posted on here about 3 years ago with me actually deploying my CCW (but not firing) resulted from me being in a location that was without question an NPE and, off the record, LE told me they do it too but to be careful. Unfortunately, we now have a new mayor (who is borderline socialist) and a new police chief (from New England) and I'm not going to be set an example of. However, even though I don't want to be an ambiguous law test case, I'm still not willing to sacrifice my ability to defend myself to have a good time at a bachelor party.
With that said, I rarely go out anymore (3x a year?) and if I do, I always sit at a table and always order food. I'm not sure how that will translate should the need arise to use my CCW, but "Eating dinner with my friends" has to sound better in court than "drinking a beer with my homies".
And to the dude who commented on my outfit - I got so many compliments from chicks that night! I don't even like that shirt (the collar is really stiff) but girls adore it.
Back to the holster - it appears my options to tuck a shirt in are j-clips or a brown clip? I'd wear a black belt but all of my shoes are brown. I'm looking at the minotaur, but it looks so "big". I'm worried about printing. I'd prefer an odd black clip to the butt of a handgun sticking out of my shirt.
As far as I recall for Missouri, if a member of management at a place that has a properly posted sign asks you to leave because of your cw you are obligated to leave, otherwise they can have you hauled out and cited for trespassing.
Minnesota same way. You have to refuse to leave before they can have you charged with trespassing, regardless of any posted signs. Posted "no gun" signs are basically meaningless here - a courtesy to let you know that if they catch you carrying a gun, they might ask you to leave. Printing - no legal difference between open or concealed carry. As to drinking and carrying, guns aren't restricted in bars or restaurant bars here.
Crow Hunter
12-29-14, 08:56
I can't believe no one else has said this.
I would have asked him if he normally checks out guys asses in the men's restroom?
I have to carry a pager at work. We use them because we don't have an obnoxious paging system with people say "XXXX please call XXXX". Now you just get paged whenever you go to take a dump after being at your desk for 2 hours without your phone ringing.
People are used to everyone carrying such huge cell phones, bluetooth devices, battery packs, etc...... my go-to answer is ALWAYS "It is for my cell phone."
Twice someone thought they saw something on my belt and that was my reply. Neither inquired any further. That statement works when your grandmother gives you a hug and bumps the top of your sidearm in you blackhawk paddle holster.
"What is that?" "It is a part for my cell phone"
Truth is, it IS, in a way, for my $500 cell phone. If someone demands I hand it over the cost to replace, the screwing-around factor to get a new one, and the potential lost data means it is property that is very valuable to me.
So it really IS for my cell phone.
The problem with saying that's it's something that it's not comes up in environments that are more appropriate for extended conversation, versus the OP's bathroom scenario with the meat-gazer.
Take this scenario, and put it in a grocery store aisle, church, a barbecue, or something similar.
Answer: "Oh, it's for my cell phone"
Follow up question: "I've been looking for something like that. How does it clip in?" Or, "Isn't your phone in your pocket?"
Where do you go from there?
Answer: "Its for my pager."
Well, it's not the 90s. Drug dealers don't even have pagers. So, you're stuck with the occupational excuse, which opens up a lot of room for follow up questions, especially in a social environment, where others may just as well know what you do for a living.
The OP's solution of flat-out ignoring the comment is probably a 99% solution for that specific environment (complete stranger in a bathroom). Thinking a little more about other places where you might be "made", ignoring and walking off may not be possible. I still feel that concealing the clip, vs disguising it or explaining it away, is the better option.
Just food for thought.
Easy. J-Frame or Mustang/P238 in an ankle holster. If you have to go bigger, gain about 30-40 lbs.
Eurodriver
12-29-14, 12:03
Look into some of the holsters that offer a "J" clip. Dale Fricke makes most of my holsters and offers J clips on some, but Comp-Tac and a few others do as well. The j clip goes between your pants and belt and hooks the bottom of your belt.
ETA: http://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/joshua-covert-tuckable-kydex-holster/
I missed this, but even those holsters look a little odd. A little black clip underneath my belt?
I'm liking the Galco Belly Band (IIRC) more and more due to a PM I received. I can tuck the shirt in fully and not have any exterior hardware hanging out. My only concern is the ability of it to hold the weight of a fully loaded G26, although I plan on getting a single stack 9mm shortly if Glock decides it doesn't want my money.
You don't owe any non-LEO stranger an answer to a personal question.
I've seen a lot of worry about bulges being questioned (covered concealed carry weapon in a holster) and my answer is always the same: No response.
I can't imagine a complete stranger insisting after a non-response, but if it did happen, I'd simply say in a pleasant voice, "it's really not your concern".
That's not belligerent or challenging, but it gets the point across.
If however, I was angered because the inconsiderate dolt asked such a personal question in an unpleasant manner, I'd say "It's none on your business" and I'd be right.
You don't owe any non-LEO stranger an answer to a personal question.
He may have been an off-duty LEO. A hostile response or non-response could have led to some time in a concrete room eating microwave dinners.
Shao,
I guess you feel obligated to answer such a question?
I sure don't.
If the guy asking is an LEO, he should identify himself first as an LEO before asking such a personal question, otherwise I consider such a situation as some busy body I owe no explanation to. In addition, I'm not in the habit, especially in a mens room to answering strangers questions.
I don't consider a non-response or any negative response to a personal question to be out of line becausee he MIGHT possibly be an off duty LEO. He might possibly be a perv or just a dim bulb...either way I owe no strangers answers to personal questions.
He may have been an off-duty LEO. A hostile response or non-response could have led to some time in a concrete room eating microwave dinners.
For telling someone you don't know from adams house cat to piss off? If he's an "off duty leo" then he needs to show some credentials and make the encounter official if he wants any answers from me. I'll be damned if I walk around on eggshells answering random strangers BS questions just because they might be a leo....
MountainRaven
12-29-14, 12:44
In another thread:
"Saw a guy at the restaurant, he was printing pretty badly and I discretely let him know."
"Nice, good situational awareness!"
"I like to make it a game where I try to figure out who is carrying and who isn't."
"Me, too! Helps keep me situationally aware."
In this thread:
"Guy asked me about my holster at the restaurant."
"Wow, what a fag!"
"How dare that gazer ask about something that clearly isn't his business!"
"I would have punched him right in his stupid face!"
:jester:
Fjallhrafn,
I don't get your point?
Restroom vs. Restaurant, apples and oranges, but that aside, a guy could ask me about my holster if: We were friends/acquaintance/at the range/in a state where open carry is legal, otherwise it's an inappropriate personal question.
In Texas, a guy with a Concealed Handgun License is to keep quiet about carrying. If some random stranger in public where other strangers ears were listening and came up to me because he spotted a bulge on one side, thought I might be carrying and started in on questions regarding what kind of holster I was using to carry, I'd have to tell him - nothing. It's simply not smart. Plus, I don't owe any stranger an explanation about - anything personal.
Concealed means keeping such discussions as holster preference private and limited to those you trust, not random strangers. And doing so doesn't make you a kook or a crank...
I'm not being obnoxious if I don't care to answer personal questions from complete strangers when the circumstances aren't right.
Shao,
I guess you feel obligated to answer such a question?
I sure don't.
If the guy asking is an LEO, he should identify himself first as an LEO before asking such a personal question, otherwise I consider such a situation as some busy body I owe no explanation to. In addition, I'm not in the habit, especially in a mens room to answering strangers questions.
I don't consider a non-response or any negative response to a personal question to be out of line becausee he MIGHT possibly be an off duty LEO. He might possibly be a perv or just a dim bulb...either way I owe no strangers answers to personal questions.
Totally agree.
But, what do you do in polite company? Replace bathroom with social event, and dude with "wife's boss" or your cousins hoplophobic boyfriend. What's your plan?
Added: I agree with Shao's suggestion of a pocket gun. Sometimes, small gun is better than no gun or being made.
If you opt to put something over the clip, you may have to modify your draw to clear this obstruction. Train accordingly or use J-clips.
Chameleox,
If I'm as discreet as I should be, they won't know I carry a gun.
Concealed is concealed...and while I can talk about it here, no knows my real name, etc. So, I can discuss it without really revealing to the world who I am.
But, assuming in this hypothetical they do know I carry and want answers as to why, I'm still not obligated to defend why I defend myself.
However, if I cared to, I could say: I'm very uncomfortable discussing this and would rather not, (weak, but applicable in this day and age of acceptable social double speak and psychobabble) or guess right every time you leave the house without protection or carry a gun or when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away or why do you wear seat belts...and on and on.
The list of good reasons to carry are numerous and sometimes the opportunity to educate sometimes results in converts.
Again, in Texas, where I reside, us CHLers are pretty much on the low down about carrying.
"It's a Nunya." As in Nunya damn business.
If I'm in a place where discretion is necessary, I find that a CM9 in a pocket holster is very hard to spot. Yes, it's only got 7rds available, but it's better than nothing.
Insulin pump would be good cover.
WickedWillis
12-29-14, 18:14
Tell him it's the strap that holds your massive penis tight to your body, and it's the only way you can wear pants in public legally. We wouldn't want a repeat of the time you wore sweatpants. And by all means, stare directly into his soul the entire time without blinking.
There seems to be 2 schools of thought regarding personal questions from strangers.
1st School: Answer with a lie.
2nd School: Provide no answer (or tell them politely it's really not any of their business, or not be polite about it, it's up to you) as you don't owe complete strangers answers to personal questions.
I don't understand those in the 1st School of thought.
Why do you think you're obligated to answer personal questions from complete strangers?
How about if they asked you if you were wearing clean underwear?
Would you feel obligated to answer?
I'm guessing you wouldn't, so why would you with personal questions regarding anything else?
I don't get you 1st School of thought guys.
What am I missing?
If I'm as discreet as I should be, they won't know I carry a gun.
That's the Ideal.
It keeps you from having to lie, or explain away why you're carrying in a "safe" place. Where I live, there's a much shorter societal memory of carrying firearms for personal protection, and a much more hoplophobic atmosphere. This is an interesting combination.
Chameleox
"It keeps you from having to lie,"
See my last post.
Actually, you don't have to lie/explain at all...
The best answer is " its for my colostomy bag".
That's exactly where I was going to go with it.
Ever seen where/how they locate C.B.'s?
A great friend (now dead from cancer) had to have one installed along with a urostomy bag. The same type device except it collects urine.
The exsposed clip wouldn't explain anything close to what a C.B. is about.
But, perhaps you depend on the general ignorance of such medical devices and there locations assuming you'll embarrass the unenlightened into silence. And, yes, it might very well work.
Me, I don't take kindly to strangers asking personal questions.
To be fair though, in all the years I've carried, I've never encountered the clod who'd be thoughtless enough to ask personal questions regarding the lump on my side (when I carry in an open holster with a cover garment) or instead carry using my rectangular, black, leather zippered OWB pack I carry my Glock 19 in when it's Texas hot on my person.
Depending on how they went about being an oaf with their personal questions, I might simply ignore them or respond with something tactful that essentially says "it's none of your concern" to an outright "it's none of your damn business"!
Honestly, I don't get you that feel you're obligated to give a stranger an answer to personal questions.
You aren't nor are you being unkind or unfair in refusing.
Eurodriver
12-31-14, 12:31
I will definitely get something more concealable - no doubt. It's never a good thing to have a clip like that out of place and that obviously introduced the situation in the first place.
However, I don't care what anyone says I will always ignore a question like this at first as an attempt to defuse the situation. If he decides to keep asking or hassling me, that's something that needs to be addressed then and no "canned response" is going to work.
Again, luckily for me, I just pretended not to hear the guy and he left me alone. He could have been LE trying to see if I was carrying, or he could've been drunk and just messing around. Who knows.
It has been quite interesting reading some of these responses, and I can't tell if some of you are serious or not. I don't mean that in an insulting way, but I would never say some of the things mentioned in this thread because it invites the possibility of further scrutiny.
However, I don't care what anyone says I will always ignore a question like this at first as an attempt to defuse the situation. If he decides to keep asking or hassling me, that's something that needs to be addressed then and no "canned response" is going to work.
Again, luckily for me, I just pretended not to hear the guy and he left me alone. He could have been LE trying to see if I was carrying, or he could've been drunk and just messing around. Who knows.
I think you handled it perfectly. There is no requirement for you to answer a stranger's question, especially about a private issue like carrying a firearm. Avoidance of potential confrontation, even verbal is your best friend.
If you got made, then it's your fault. Shirt tail out solves most iwb carry issues. Personally, I'd choose going unarmed if my carry arrangement could be detected by others. Texas policy is unforgiving on chl violations. The op handled this situation well by not responding.
The op gave us valuable food for thought with his post. Thank you, sir.
Insulin pump would be good cover.
I've seen someone use that excuse before, the other party apologized and went on his way.
From the image you posted that bulge + the clip is pretty apparent to me. I dont think AIWB would help. If it was me, I would change my attire to suit the pistol not to impress the girls (not trying to be condescending). Or, I woild maybe try for something smaller and go for deep concealment in that attire.
If it was me, I would change my attire to suit the pistol
^^^
-john
Euro,
J hooks suck.
They put all the weight of the gun and holster on the pants and none on the belt. you cant cinch your belt tight enough to hide that drag.
I agree with not answering but I have two holsters set up both for glock 26's one with black kydex clips and one with brown kydex clips. Short of that a J frame in a pocket would be a good idea.
Chris
Dress around your carry. Pretty simple. Always being Situationally Aware which includes your shirt riding high or bending over etc.
Any good IWB Holster or even a Raven Concealment, and a Big enough shirt, with the Pistol positioned in the proper position on your body, should never expose anything.
I have no advice for people who carry with Shirt's tucked in. Maybe Ankle holster if you have to dress up?
Again, have a tuckable holster (most of us have to tuck in our shirts once in a while when it's too warm to also wear a sweater and too casual for a sport coat), and use velcro clips and a velcro lined belt.
Eurodriver
01-04-15, 10:15
From the image you posted that bulge + the clip is pretty apparent to me. I dont think AIWB would help. If it was me, I would change my attire to suit the pistol not to impress the girls (not trying to be condescending). Or, I woild maybe try for something smaller and go for deep concealment in that attire.
The amount of twisting and turning to get that pic taken was really hard. It actually didn't print at all...aside from that clip. Unless I was twisting my upper body all the way to the right and down while taking a selfie of my ass, I was pretty safe from being outed.
I have no advice for people who carry with Shirt's tucked in. Maybe Ankle holster if you have to dress up?
This is how I normally dress, minus the tie and douche look on the guy's face. My body type is also fairly similar. My shirts are very slim fitting and don't "puff out" in the back like a marshmallow.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xEdwD-AThU0/Teeop5yoiII/AAAAAAAAACI/hlws2xNOkwc/s320/slim-fit-shirt-blue.jpg
There's not much room for concealment. And dressing another way is not an option. This is industry practice, and wearing an untucked polo (or worse, an untucked dress shirt) not only looks "high school", but I'd probably have to go speak to a Partner about why I look like a bum in front of clients.
There is no way an ankle holster would work, I wear slim fit pants as well. It's been 85 degrees here the past few days. Wearing a sweater or a sport coat is almost laughable given the heat and Florida's casual atmosphere. That said, my shirt needs to be tucked in and I need a holster that allows me to do it. I am thinking the Galco band and a Walther PPS will be my best bet.
Does anyone have experience with tucking in shirts and concealing pistols on a regular basis?
Again, have a tuckable holster (most of us have to tuck in our shirts once in a while when it's too warm to also wear a sweater and too casual for a sport coat), and use velcro clips and a velcro lined belt.
Sounds a bit better than j-hooks. Do you have any examples?
*shrugs*
My respond would have been " mind your own ******* business". Than I'd continue about my business.
If it was me, I would change my attire to suit the pistol not to impress the girls...
Odds of getting laid VS odds of having to shoot someone. :)
Ready.Fire.Aim
01-04-15, 12:44
There's not much room for concealment. And dressing another way is not an option. This is industry practice, and wearing an untucked polo (or worse, an untucked dress shirt) not only looks "high school", but I'd probably have to go speak to a Partner about why I look like a bum in front of clients.
Does anyone have experience with tucking in shirts and concealing pistols on a regular basis
Recluse 2-sided Wallet holster and S&W Bodyguard .380 is what I carry. In the front right pocket.
Spare mag in the left pocket, Recluse makes a leather magazine carrier.
Lightweight and looks like a wallet. My wife doesn't even know I am carrying.
12 shots of .380 is better than being unarmed.
http://www.recluseholster.com
I wear Haggar dress slacks. They don't print the wallet holster.
MorphCross
01-04-15, 14:38
Does anyone have experience with tucking in shirts and concealing pistols on a regular basis?
I wear an M&P40c in a RCS with tuckable soft loops, normally I pair it with darker solid color shirts and the belt is black so the soft loops aren't as obvious. If you are wearing at the 3:00 position get a cell phone holster, even if you have a smart phone and that can help conceal your loops.
I will say this however, my body build and your build are vastly different so the situation is =/=.
MountainRaven
01-04-15, 15:28
This is how I normally dress, minus the tie and douche look on the guy's face. My body type is also fairly similar. My shirts are very slim fitting and don't "puff out" in the back like a marshmallow.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xEdwD-AThU0/Teeop5yoiII/AAAAAAAAACI/hlws2xNOkwc/s320/slim-fit-shirt-blue.jpg
There's not much room for concealment. And dressing another way is not an option. This is industry practice, and wearing an untucked polo (or worse, an untucked dress shirt) not only looks "high school", but I'd probably have to go speak to a Partner about why I look like a bum in front of clients.
There is no way an ankle holster would work, I wear slim fit pants as well. It's been 85 degrees here the past few days. Wearing a sweater or a sport coat is almost laughable given the heat and Florida's casual atmosphere. That said, my shirt needs to be tucked in and I need a holster that allows me to do it. I am thinking the Galco band and a Walther PPS will be my best bet.
Does anyone have experience with tucking in shirts and concealing pistols on a regular basis?
Is there no way to wear a sport coat or suit coat or blazer for work?
I had a roommate who carried right after Newtown tucked IWB. But he wasn't there much longer after that and did so with his boss's explicit permission after some schmuck kids started calling in threats to the high school and middle schools. He also carried tucked IWB not infrequently after work with his work shirt. Dress code similar to yours. But he was heavier set and had baggier shirts.
Originally Posted by Eurodriver
anyone have experience with tucking in shirts and concealing pistols on a regular basis?
Originally Posted by moonshot
Again, have a tuckable holster (most of us have to tuck in our shirts once in a while when it's too warm to also wear a sweater and too casual for a sport coat), and use velcro clips and a velcro lined belt.
Originally Posted by Eurodriver
Sounds a bit better than j-hooks. Do you have any examples?
I don't have any photos, but I frequently wear a G26 with a 10 round G26 magazine fitted with a GAP floorplate in a Comptac C-tac holster under a tucked in polo shirt, button down shirt, even a tee-shirt (not an undershirt). I use Comp-tac's velcro belt clips (two) and a velcro-lined belt.
The key (for me) is to wear a shirt that is relatively long, so you can have a lot of shirt tucked in while still allowing for some good blousing over the gun. A slimmer grip would need less shirt for blousing, and I've carried my 642 in the same manner with almost no blousing needed. The long shirt helps keep the bottom of the shirt from riding up during the day, risking exposure. You can play around with the blousing during the day if need be and it doesn't look like your doing anything other than adjusting your shirt.
You do have to practice the draw - you must lift the shirt up completely to clear the gun with your off hand or risk grabbing a handful of shirt along with grip, and that's not good. This is the main reason I carry in the 3 o'clock position when I do this - easier to clear the grip.
Definately some good suggestions here:
Avoiding peoples' intrigue.
This is a great example of how even discreet objects hidden in plain sight should be associated with something else. If they have no obvious meaning or association, they'll be questioned. An empty clip that holds nothing, seems to do nothing, and is different than everything else invites scrutiny.
Provide less contrast even though the clip mave a different sheen but still less contrast than brown/black.
With my minotaur I always match the clip color to the belt color. Significantly less noticeable that way.
Gotsta coordinate! ;)
Brown belt, khakis and a checkered light colored shirt is what made your belt clip stick out like a sore thumb. Matching colors isnt just for women and metrosexuals. At the least use a black belt.
I'd wear a black belt but all of my shoes are brown.
This may be your answer right here. Provides all the above but the added social distraction of, "You're not supposed to wear brown with black".
Euro,
J hooks suck.
They put all the weight of the gun and holster on the pants and none on the belt. you cant cinch your belt tight enough to hide that drag.
I agree with not answering but I have two holsters set up both for glock 26's one with black kydex clips and one with brown kydex clips. Short of that a J frame in a pocket would be a good idea.
Chris
I always wondered why my J hook holsters bugged me so much! They only see limited backup use so I never followed up but now they are coming off!
This is with G19/17's so maybe the weight is a factor as well.
Thanks!
Dennis.
Moose-Knuckle
01-05-15, 05:56
Alex, I'll take "Why the **** are you checking out my waist for?" for a thousand please.
What about attaching D-ring to that clip and hanging car keys (or whatever) on it?
Eurodriver
01-05-15, 07:30
Wow. This might look a little "off", especially in a business atmosphere but it is inexpensive, easy, and will certainly answer why the clip is there. I might go this route until I get another holster.
The keys don't even have to be for anything, really. Thanks for the suggestion.
What about attaching D-ring to that clip and hanging car keys (or whatever) on it?
The keys don't even have to be for anything, really.
They don't. I mean unless they have something like raging bull, jumping horse or at lease lettem "M" on them ;)
Euro,
J hooks suck.
They put all the weight of the gun and holster on the pants and none on the belt. you cant cinch your belt tight enough to hide that drag.
I agree with not answering but I have two holsters set up both for glock 26's one with black kydex clips and one with brown kydex clips. Short of that a J frame in a pocket would be a good idea.
Chris
I always wondered why my J hook holsters bugged me so much! They only see limited backup use so I never followed up but now they are coming off!
This is with G19/17's so maybe the weight is a factor as well.
Thanks!
Dennis.
Plain J hooks *do* suck, but J hooks combined with Velcro rock. The Velcro keeps things in place and helps steady the load, and the J hook prevents the holster from being withdrawn on the draw - all while giving you a very low profile.
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