View Full Version : Who carries a wheel gun?
I am looking for a new revolver, that will get plenty of carry time. I like smallish handguns- Ruger sp101, G23/27 etc. Anyone tried the S&W M&P .357 revolver? Just looking for quality, smallish, carry revolvers in .357. Opinions appreciated.
Master_of_Sparks
06-29-08, 16:41
I have a couple of S&W wheel guns. My favorite is the 442 Air weight for pocket carry. If I lost it today, I would be at the gun shop tomorrow getting another.
That M&P version is brutal to shoot .357 Magnums out of....I'm pretty sure I'd rather get kicked in the nuts than shoot 50 rounds of .357's though it.
.38 +P's would be my round of choice in that package.
I carry a 442 w/Lasergrips as my backup every day.
Wayne Dobbs
06-29-08, 17:24
I carry a pre-lock 642 with CT lasergrips all day, every day. I also own and shoot about 25 different S&W K and N frame revolvers. Don't even call yourself a pistol shooter unless ya have some old school Smiths to shoot!
Alpha Sierra
06-29-08, 17:41
I strongly advise against carrying an aluminum, titanium, or scandium frame compact revolver with 357 Magnums. Particularly with old school loads like Remington's violent 125 grain semi-jacketed hollow point.
Recoil will be severe. Muzzle flash will be extreme. And follow up shots will be slow.
If you want a compact revovler in 357 Magnum, I suggest Smith & Wesson's Model 60 or Ruger's SP101. Both are all steel (stainless) and will handle the recoil better. Even then, these are sub-30 ounce guns and I suggest using milder 357 loads like Remington's 125 grain Golden Saber or Cor Bon's 125 grain DPX. Both will stay under or around 1200 fps, rather than the 1450 - 1500 fps of the more traditional 125 357s.
If you want to carry full house Magnums, I would steer you in the direction of a stainless steel, mid size revolver like S&W's Models 65, 66, or 686. Concealment is not an issue even if you are a regular size guy. IME, revolvers, with their smooth curves and shorter grips are way easier to hide than semi autos.
I normally carry this (a S&W M65):
http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/24/00B/14/FF/1F/B0/O4NKWoIrhj4u838tPqvkIRFNwD5coTNb0300.jpg
in this (A K&D Holsters Cochise Defender):
http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/002/19/DD/E0/02/bEpOuuF0+oaKBUx9GYMd-qK6pzbjE-Hj0300.jpg
all day long in complete comfort and I am 5'8"/185.
Another good load is Buffalo Bore's 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point 38 Special +P. This thing clocks almost 1200 fps out of a 4" gun and 1000 from a 2" snub. I am a firm believer in heavy loads for caliber in handguns and the 158 grain lead semi wadcutter HP has a long history of working when it should.
Alpha Sierra
06-29-08, 17:45
I also carry this S&W Model 637 when even more discreet concealment is necessary, loaded with 38+P 158 semi wadcutters (Remington or Buffalo Bore).
This gun is so light (16 ounces loaded) that I can forget I have it on.
http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/18/002/7F/6D/3E/01/bdC3I+tBVmklcTYSk7G5Z-+d8qJuZWQo0300.jpg
S&W 642 when I carry a wheel gun.
PALADIN-hgwt
06-29-08, 18:42
xxxxx
342 PD is my every day carry...
I am in the market for a DOA wheel gun, small, and light.
The search continues.....;)
I carry a S&W 640 in .357 Mag as a back up to my main gun. I use to load it with either Federal 125 gr JHPs or Remingtons 125 gr JHPs. Currently, I'm using Buffalo Bores 125 gr Gold Dots.
My old duty 1911 (KImber Gold Combat Custom Shop pistol) and back up (S&W 640 .357 Mag).
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/BrokenArrow13/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/BrokenArrow13/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-1.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/BrokenArrow13/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-2.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/BrokenArrow13/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-3.jpg
I have / use Colt trooper Mk 3 .357 good solid handgun.
Line Rider
06-29-08, 20:46
I'm think about going back to a wheel gun on duty.
toddackerman
06-29-08, 23:01
I'm think about going back to a wheel gun on duty.
Blasphemy! Why???????
Just curious here. Is the Ruger KRH-444 being carried by anyone here? How about for concealed carry? I don't know the size in relation to the Ruger SP101, but it fits and feels just perfectly fine in my hands. Of course the R.KRH-444 is on my wish list. :D
I carry a .38 taurus ultralight at work and it feels like your shooting a .357 magnum out of it because of the weight, but doesn't weigh down your shorts in the summer. I also have a stainless, ported 5 shot .357 taurus snubby and it shoots much, much nicer. The porting helps considerably. But for quality get an old s&w. I have a model 60, it's nice.
rowdeyreddog
06-30-08, 01:46
I carry a charter undercover in 38 spl as backup.light weight/low cost works for me.:D
Line Rider
06-30-08, 01:47
Blasphemy! Why???????
It's not the gun or the gear. It's the skill of the man handling the gun.
It's not the gun or the gear. It's the skill of the man handling the gun.
I'll always remember long ago when I was starting my career shooting. A then NIS(now NCIS) agent(old timer) was at our range when I went down to shoot my new SIG P225. I thought I was pretty good and I remember thinking to myself "look at that old guy with that revolver!" He must have picked up on it, because the look he gave me with a grin after a few drills and I was looking at his target and mine and his speed with it.
I had to say, he was pretty good with it.
Alpha Sierra, A joke and to qoute Bill Jordan-that unshrouded ejector rod might get bent if someone bangs thier head on it.
Nice piece!
Mark
I carry a S&W M&P340 with the Speer SB .38 + P load. It is not that bad to shoot .38 and .38 + P but .357 sucks.
Jay Cunningham
06-30-08, 07:19
I carry a Taurus 85 titanium LW .38sp as a BUG. I bought this a long time ago, and it's filling in until I pick up a J-frame with CT grips to replace it.
AllAmerican
06-30-08, 08:03
Ruger SP101 Ever day, right hand pocket. Will add laser some day....
Alpha Sierra
06-30-08, 08:34
Alpha Sierra, A joke and to qoute Bill Jordan-that unshrouded ejector rod might get bent if someone bangs thier head on it.
Nice piece!
Mark
Mr. Jordan did like his Combat Magnum, didn't he? :)
BTW, the exposed ejector rod is one reason why I have those grips. Cocobolo wood is ROCK HARD and getting pistol-whipped with them is going to de-motivate whoever gets it. :D
Alaskapopo
06-30-08, 08:37
It's not the gun or the gear. It's the skill of the man handling the gun.
Yes but there comes a point where you can handicap yourself too much. Carrying a slow to reload 6 shot pistol in this day and age as a duty weapon is not a good idea.
Pat
It's not the gun or the gear. It's the skill of the man handling the gun.
While skill certainly plays a role, probably the most important role, it's wrong to suggest that the gun & gear don't also play a role. A high-capacity semiauto has capabilities you simply cannot achieve with a snubby or even a duty revolver.
Does that mean a revolver is useless? No. A bad choice? Not necessarily. Certainly, as mark5pt56 points out, a highly skilled revolver shooter has an advantage over a poorly skilled semiauto shooter. But in an era when we've accepted that multiple (perhaps many) rounds will be necessary to stop a single threat, and multiple threats are a reasonable expectation, having a low-capacity gun that is relatively slow to reload has some built-in handicaps.
depending on the situation, i have a revolver that i carry. love the shrouded hammer, giving me the option of single or double action, plus the hammer configuration almost guarentees snag-free draws from holster or pockets, or even beltline. only draw back is the weight; it's an older model with steel frame. plus side to the steel frame, is that i can target practice with it, and not get beat to a pulp. (the pic isn't mine, but it's the same model and configuration as mine.) For me this revolver carries very well in situations where i can't use one of my full frames, and for me, the revolver fits better then the compact autos, so my shooting reflects it.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Snubnose_files/image007.jpg
Alpha Sierra
06-30-08, 11:25
A high-capacity semiauto has capabilities you simply cannot achieve with a snubby or even a duty revolver.
That capability gap is not so wide when one considers a moon-clipped 627 or 625. The former with eight rounds of 357 Magnum and the latter with six of 45 ACP.
Being N frames makes them much easier to control under recoil. Being round butts makes them easier to get a good, ergonomic hold on.
I often carry the S&W Mod 19, 4 inch with .38 +P+ loads. Have several other Mod 19's some of which are commemortive guns and some I hunt with (6 in). Big fan of Smith Mod 19's. Carried the Mod 60 for a while but was more comfortable knowing where the 4 inch hit at 30 plus yards. But if you can conceal a 4 inch revolver you can conceal a Beretta 92F or Sig 226 just as well.
I carry a S&W 340PD regularly. As a BUG and occasionally as my primary.
Scandium/Titanium holds up extremely well in humid envirnments. It's so light, it goes right in my front pocket....and packs enough punch to drop anything on 2 feet.
The CT grips on it, I find to be essential. CT grips and J-Frame S&W wheel guns are a perfect match.
It's a niche weapon...and serves that niche extremely effectively.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/5POINT56/SW340PDCT001.jpg
Alpha Sierra
06-30-08, 12:36
But if you can conceal a 4 inch revolver you can conceal a Beretta 92F or Sig 226 just as well.
I strongly disagree for someone of average size. The long, squared grip of a service size semi-auto is significantly more troublesome to hide than the shorter, rounded grip of an equally large revolver. It is definitely so for me.
Barrel length is not an issue when carried IWB, as I do most of the time.
A Smith 640 with laser grips has ridden my ankle daily for years. Usually as a backup and less often as a primary when discretion is necessary. Not sure if you meant that kinda small or not. The 640 is as small as I can possible go and still be able to shoot it reasonable well. I carried a 642 for about a year, but I found the 640 so much more comfortable to shoot that I actually practiced with it :eek:
I am not sure what it is, but the trigger on the 640 is MUCH smoother than any of the lighter guns (642, etc) that I have shot.
I find Speer's short barrel 357 mag loads to be comfortable enough to practice with, though the 38 special version of the same load will most likely work just as well out of the short barrel.
ETA: I do find that the sights are darn near useless on these things. CTC grips transformed this gun for me. I would imagine that a Big Dot front sight or something similar would be quite useful as well.
PRGGodfather
06-30-08, 14:16
SW 442 +P rated Airweight with CTC grips as a backup or primary OD every day.
[QUOTE=Alpha Sierra;185066]I strongly disagree for someone of average size. The long, squared grip of a service size semi-auto is significantly more troublesome to hide than the shorter, rounded grip of an equally large revolver. It is definitely so for me.
Since I can coceal both wearing a bowling shirt, maybe I should lay off the heavy dark beers. And I think "average" size is getting bigger. Have you seen Division I athletes lately?
Regards,
Carlos
Thanks for all the suggestions, I should have added I already have a Ruger sp101, and it is a nice combination of size and weight. Its extra weight makes .357 rounds easy to shoot comfortably. Looks like I need to check out some S&Ws, especially the 442. Thanks for the info.
Instead of investing $400 + in a new wheel gun, take a look at what Marc Morganti at Gemini Customs can do for your SP-101.
My keeper -101 (Glass bead package + tritium front sight):
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/SP1014portcompcloseup.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/SP101frontend.jpg
Cheers,
Pk
[QUOTE=Pk14;185181]Instead of investing $400 + in a new wheel gun, take a look at what Marc Morganti at Gemini Customs can do for your SP-101.
It's funny you mentioned that because I have looked at Gemini and it looks like nice work, I have thought about sending the 101 in, but I just always seem to want a new addition vs work. Maybe not the best decision but just the way I've been thinking lately. Nice piece by the way.
AllAmerican
06-30-08, 17:43
Thanks for all the suggestions, I should have added I already have a Ruger sp101, and it is a nice combination of size and weight. Its extra weight makes .357 rounds easy to shoot comfortably. Looks like I need to check out some S&Ws, especially the 442. Thanks for the info.
I would stick with the SP101 it will last forever and I have seen quite a few of the j frames that have been shot loose.... They are great guns but I think the SP101 is better built. I would take nothing for mine!!!
JMHO
Good shooting!:)
Alaskapopo
06-30-08, 17:54
I would stick with the SP101 it will last forever and I have seen quite a few of the j frames that have been shot loose.... They are great guns but I think the SP101 is better built. I would take nothing for mine!!!
JMHO
Good shooting!:)
The SP101 is a nice revolver but its way too heavy for pocket carry. Which is the only use I have for a revolver in this size range.
This is what I used when I used to work UC.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Revolvers/38.jpg
AllAmerican
06-30-08, 17:59
The SP101 is a nice revolver but its way too heavy for pocket carry. Which is the only use I have for a revolver in this size range.
This is what I used when I used to work UC.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Revolvers/38.jpg
I guess it is a subjective thing as I have carried mine for years in my right hand front pants or shorts pockets with no problem..... What ever works for you personally is best.
A S&W 642 serves as my back-up gun. Full to mid-size autos will always be my primary.
It's funny you mentioned that because I have looked at Gemini and it looks like nice work, I have thought about sending the 101 in, but I just always seem to want a new addition vs work. Maybe not the best decision but just the way I've been thinking lately. Nice piece by the way.[/QUOTE]
Thanks - I originally bought it for CinCHouse to use / carry in her backpack or bag - she doesn't frequent the range as much as I do and it soaks up the recoil very well when she does train with it. I'd have no issue carrying it OWB as I would a 1911 in civil society. It is a little too big for pocket carry IMH 6.0' O.
Pk
Alpha Sierra
06-30-08, 18:17
Somehow, I do not see the smallish sights of fixed sight revolvers to be an issue. When time is of the essence, point shooting fixes the problem without the need for lasers. When time is more generous, I have no trouble aligning those sights.
Yep. I'm a point shooter.
I've been looking for a pre-lock, pre-MIM 442 or 642, no dash or a -1 (rated for .38 spl +P but w/MIM). For now, I have this M49 bodyguard I just picked up. Didn't opt for the ivory grips. She wears the stock wood grips and a Tyler grip.
http://www.fototime.com/B7700044540C624/standard.jpg
John_Wayne777
07-01-08, 07:07
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0703.jpg
That weapon is on me whenever I am wearing pants.
My daily summer carry is a S&W 637.....light and compact.
HeadHunter
07-01-08, 20:57
S&W 640-1 with Speer SB Revolver GD.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/HeadHunter_album/640-1003b.jpg
Anyone have experiences with the XS big dot tritium on a snubnose? Pics would be good also.
Anyone have experiences with the XS big dot tritium on a snubnose? Pics would be good also.
Not specifically with the XS big dot, but a tritium front on a fixed sight 3" barrel works well for fast acq. Since the rear sight is a trough in the topstrap and the sight is adapted from a Mepro front sight, the POA / POI is for 158 gr. when the top of the rear sight bisects the tritium dot front at 7 yds. Not optimum for accuracy work, but it gets it to COM quickly and helps to keep the focus on the front sight.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/SP101SmallWonderFSandPorts.jpg
Hope that helps.
Pk
AllAmerican
07-02-08, 02:18
Instead of investing $400 + in a new wheel gun, take a look at what Marc Morganti at Gemini Customs can do for your SP-101.
My keeper -101 (Glass bead package + tritium front sight):
Cheers,
Pk
I've been wanting to do some custom work on my SP101. I saw your post and checked out Marco's Website.... Well he has mine today, I asked for the whole package except for the porting as I had a bad experience with a magnaported 686 and got my eyes full of burned powder. I think the smooth grips while being a little rougher to shoot, will be quicker out of my pocket than with the rubber grips. I like the way he machines the cylinder for full moon clips...
I carried a 3" Model 64RB I purchased new to replace a Model 10 I got used when I first got on the job. Had the charge holes chamfered, hammer bobbed(this was NOT a DAO set-up..but I wanted "snag-free" for Off-duty carry),and trigger polished and the whole gun bead-blasted(gave it a pewter-type coloring). It wore Eagle Secret Service Grips. What a pretty gun. Like a fool I sold it when we transitioned to the Glock 19 and 26. I think sometimes about buying it back.:( I've also owned a new Smith 36 and 60 and a slightly used 640(another gun I miss!!) This thread is depressing me!!! Anyway, I always wanted an Airweight either a 442 or 642 and that's what I would recommend. Practice with standard pressure loads and stoke with +P's for social occasions!!! Good Luck:D
Hey f.2 that Bodyguard is looking pimp with those grips...... Looking Good Baby!! Good Luck finding a "cheap" pre-lock. I've got too much invested in the LWRC I just ordered. My wife will send me back to Iraq if I ask for anything else!!!!!!!!!:)
HeadHunter
07-02-08, 20:06
Anyone have experiences with the XS big dot tritium on a snubnose?
My 640-1 above has an XS standard dot tritium. The jury is still out on it. It seems to take longer to make a 10 yard head shot with it than the standard sight. I am going to the range tomorrow to test it on a timer.
CW -- The debate on XS sights comes up here once in a while. FWIW, my experience is the same as yours. While great accuracy is achievable, it takes longer to break a guaranteed accurate shot. I also find I get "false positive" sight pictures, when I read the sight as green light to shoot but end up with a miss. Based on my experience, I believe it's a combination the sight being harder to track (with the XS rear) and that the rear sight doesn't give nearly as much feedback when you're yanking and jerking and anticipating and doing all the other things that ruin an otherwise nice day at the range. :cool:
Like I originally stated, I'm looking at the XS big dot tritium on a J frame, a close-in weapon if there ever was one. There is no rear to line up.
CW -- The debate on XS sights comes up here once in a while. FWIW, my experience is the same as yours. While great accuracy is achievable, it takes longer to break a guaranteed accurate shot. I also find I get "false positive" sight pictures, when I read the sight as green light to shoot but end up with a miss. Based on my experience, I believe it's a combination the sight being harder to track (with the XS rear) and that the rear sight doesn't give nearly as much feedback when you're yanking and jerking and anticipating and doing all the other things that ruin an otherwise nice day at the range. :cool:
TheGhostRider
07-03-08, 19:51
I tend to carry a Taurus 650 ss CIA.
Five rounds of .357mag 125g HP is discouraging to bad guys.
Even if you miss the fireball makes them think they've been hit.:D
While this is not a fancy revolver it does the job well especially since I ride a Motorcycle. It's much easier to conceal than my G17 or SA .45 Gov't.
I carry a S&W model 66 with a 4 inch barrel. My carry ammo is Federal 125 grain semi jacketed hollowpoints.
So what is the downside to the new S&W J-Frames that have the lock? I notice everyone always wants a pre-lock J-frame, yet they are hard to find? should I avoid getting a currently available j-frame?
John_Wayne777
07-05-08, 12:37
So what is the downside to the new S&W J-Frames that have the lock? I notice everyone always wants a pre-lock J-frame, yet they are hard to find? should I avoid getting a currently available j-frame?
The downside is that some of the super light J frames had issues with the lock activating under recoil....as did some of the super light .44 magnum guns if I remember correctly.
Personally I'd have no problem buying a J frame with the lock on it because I'd simply remove the lock. It's a fairly simple procedure. If you can replace the striker or the connector on a Glock you have sufficient skill to remove the lawyer lock from a S&W revolver.
So what is the downside to the new S&W J-Frames that have the lock? I notice everyone always wants a pre-lock J-frame, yet they are hard to find? should I avoid getting a currently available j-frame?
If they have the IL (internal lock) then they have MIM triggers and hammers. Most pre-lock Smith & Wessons have case hardened triggers and hammers. With respect to J frames, most of the older pre-lock, pre-MIM are not rated for +P. That's not a problem for those who find target wadcutters more than adequate in their J frame bug. Some pre-lock models are +P, such as the 442-1 and 642-1, but they have MIM hollow back triggers. You'll see pre-lock J frames on gunbroker now and then and they go for $450 - $500+ depending on the shape they are in.
Here is a tutorial on IL removal, about midway down the page, smith-wessonforum.com member 500 Magnum Nut:
The FAQs (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/875107028/p/5), page 5
One thing to look out for on the used J frame market are cracked frames under the barrel. Some say that this is caused by the bbl being over-torqued at the factory, or someone trying to change / remove the bbl. You could see a NIB pre-lock 442 with the frame crack. Pics in this thread:
Cracked frame on 325PD & 625-10 (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/3771065352/p/1), smith-wessonforum thread.
As to avoiding IL J frames, that's a personal choice. I won't buy one. There is a long thread over at s&w forum that has data on ppl with IL failures. On page 10, member Gov posts data he compiled from IL failures posted to that date, and one of his observations is: "1) It appears as though most of the S&W guns involved are lightweight J-frames shooting "normal" loads."
Post Your Integral Lock Induced Failures (ILIF) (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/228102718), smith-wessonforum thread, 22 pages right now
On page 2 is a link to Michael Bane's IL story:
S&W Internal Lock Failure! (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html)
Page 6 has comments by Randy Lee (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/228102718?r=5501018062#5501018062) of Apex Tactical.
Arfcom thread w/pictures: S&W Revolver 'locks' itself (http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=34&t=307020), 4/24/2008
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/usacivpol/SMITH%20AND%20WESSON%20LOCK%20UP/LFP_0094.jpg
carry a 340 with nightsights and lazergrips:D
I carry SW642 for backup in the ankle holster.
pre-lock J-frame, yet they are hard to find?
A few J frames in this gunbroker revolver search using - pre lock: 2 M640s, a M60 .357 mag, and a shrouded hammer bodyguard M38 ( SA / DA ).
Search Results in Revolvers "pre lock" (http://gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.asp?SearchResults.asp?SearchType=0&Keywords=pre%2Dlock&Cat=2325)
Every day I pocket carry a S&W 640-1 prelock .357 Mag with Gold Dot Short barrel HPs. The steel carries well and is much more controllable and durable than my old 642.
Revolvers are dear to my heart, and I'm proud to say that I developed a high skill level shooting double action. Unless one has learned the technique, he may not believe just how accurately the revolver can be fired in this manner.
My opinion is that DA only practice is a good idea--the reason being that there is a low probability of needing SA fire, especially with the 2 inch back-up revolver. And yes, you can make headshots easily a la DA. I recommend a hammerless S&W.
I emphasize that changing times has relegated the revolver to back-up status for l.e. jobs.
Don't overlook the fine but discontinued Ruger Security-Six and Service-Six for range or carry purposes, especially the 2.5 inch fixed sight Service-Six revolvers.
I have a couple of S&W wheel guns. My favorite is the 442 Air weight for pocket carry. If I lost it today, I would be at the gun shop tomorrow getting another.
I agree completely. I carry it as a BUG to the G19 or 1911 or as a primary gun if I can't carry a larger gun.
PALADIN-hgwt
07-13-08, 19:22
xxxxx
I just picked up a S&W mod 38 airweight for pocket carry.
Will +P ammo be OK.
try to find 158 gr, plus-p
Alpha Sierra
07-15-08, 21:45
I just picked up a S&W mod 38 airweight for pocket carry.
Will +P ammo be OK.
Yes. And +1 to Gunut's advice.
Love my prelock 640 with GoldDot .38 Plus Ps..
Alpha Sierra
07-16-08, 20:41
Some more gun porn: S&W 29-3
http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/001/7E/BC/59/FE/HmwLOHcWNJFfH2fQznAtc9D3j6SZzPES0300.jpg
My 640-1 above has an XS standard dot tritium. The jury is still out on it. It seems to take longer to make a 10 yard head shot with it than the standard sight. I am going to the range tomorrow to test it on a timer.
HeadHunter, Any updates / range report on your XS standard dot tritium on 10 yard head shots?
FYI, Looks like S&W will make a run of Model 642 Centennials without the internal lock: New 642's without lock (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/3301082313/p/1), smith-wessonforum.
For years I've carried an old 642 in my pants pocket as a backup. I'm interested in the M&P340 but I'm a bit nervous about the internal lock.
Can someone please explain 'pre-lock' to this revolver n00b? Maybe with pictures too?
Thanks
AllAmerican
07-17-08, 12:43
Instead of investing $400 + in a new wheel gun, take a look at what Marc Morganti at Gemini Customs can do for your SP-101.
My keeper -101 (Glass bead package + tritium front sight):
Cheers,
Pk
You were dead on with Marc'o, I got my Ruger SP101 back yesterday and took it to the range. The trigger is really nice, I don't know what he did inside but he did good...I love the bead blast, and with the full moon clips it is very fast to reload. The nite site insert helps find it at night. I just need a really good belt holster, leather, RH, open top and I am good to go. I have been using a Fobus Elite which is OK. I have some money in this gun now but it is definitely a keeper. The service was great to!
AllAmerican
07-17-08, 12:53
Can someone please explain 'pre-lock' to this revolver n00b? Maybe with pictures too?
Thanks
I can try, Smith and Wesson in I think 1988??? started drilling holes in the frame just above the cylinder release latch. They installed a lock mechanism there where you can insert a key and it raises a little red flag next to the trigger. The gun cannot be fired in that condition. Before the above date of which I am not positive of, they did not have it hence "pre-lock". Otherwise the gun works the same. Lots of people including me do not like it, the more you rely on mechanical stuff, the more can go wrong IMHO.
Anyway I think they did it for liability reasons. Someone on this forum I am sure knows more about it than I do. I have quite a few S&W's but no pre locks, and I carry a Ruger SP101. Taurus also has a lock I believe it is on the hammer.
Hope this helps!
Good Shooting!
I can try, Smith and Wesson in I think 1988??? started drilling holes in the frame just above the cylinder release latch. They installed a lock mechanism there where you can insert a key and it raises a little red flag next to the trigger. The gun cannot be fired in that condition. Before the above date of which I am not positive of, they did not have it hence "pre-lock". Otherwise the gun works the same. Lots of people including me do not like it, the more you rely on mechanical stuff, the more can go wrong IMHO.
Anyway I think they did it for liability reasons. Someone on this forum I am sure knows more about it than I do. I have quite a few S&W's but no pre locks, and I carry a Ruger SP101. Taurus also has a lock I believe it is on the hammer.
Hope this helps!
Good Shooting!
You got close :) The lock came out in 2001. When you lock it the trigger is blocked from being operated. The flag is next to the hammer which is visible with exposed hammer revolvers and says "LOCKED" when up. The problem is it can sometimes activate by itself under recoil, or from being dropped, rendering the revolver unable to work. If its at the range its no big deal, but in a life and death situation.....you can draw your own conclusions. :( Give me prelock any day.
You were dead on with Marc'o, I got my Ruger SP101 back yesterday and took it to the range. The trigger is really nice, I don't know what he did inside but he did good...I love the bead blast, and with the full moon clips it is very fast to reload. The nite site insert helps find it at night. I just need a really good belt holster, leather, RH, open top and I am good to go. I have been using a Fobus Elite which is OK. I have some money in this gun now but it is definitely a keeper. The service was great to!
Glad to hear your experience was solid - Marc is good people!
I have a Matt DelFatti LP OWB holster for my 1911 for CCW - he does fantastic work and I picked up an identical one for my 3" SP-101 through Marc. Pricey, however, as you can tell from Marc's work, you get incredible value for your investment, as you will from Matt.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/SP101inMDLP.jpg
Cheers,
Pk
Alpha Sierra
07-17-08, 21:33
I'm interested in the M&P340 but I'm a bit nervous about the internal lock.
Then disable the lock. I bought Kuhnhausen's S&W revolver manual and opened up both my revolvers with the lock. After looking at the book and looking inside the gun it became obvious how to get the flag out. The gun works just fine without it.
BTW, I have zero liability concerns. The lock is not part of the fire control mechanism and its removal does not render the handgun any more likely to discharge unintentionally. It is merely a storage lock, and I secure my guns in storage using other means.
642 in left front pocket, stoked w/Corbons, to accompany whatever else I'm a
carrying. But always the 642.
More good news from S&W--another batch of bobbed-hammer M37's shipping this month! (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=884106832&f=530103904&m=1041066313&r=2311076313#2311076313), smith-wessonforum
These M37s do not have the internal lock and do not use MIM triggers or hammers. They are also rated for .38 spl +P. Smith & Wesson is listening about those infernal locks and MIM parts.
Older M37-2 smith-wessonforum threads:
Model 37-2 info request (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/1171030503/p/1)
How many here have a 37-2? (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/7651048872/p/1)
http://i37.tinypic.com/2vuwpbp.jpg
I have a 37-2, never fired it, she's a safe queen :)
Also have a 642 for everyday carry, a 38 for special occasion and a model 10 for extra special occasion.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17880J_001.jpg
HeadHunter
07-19-08, 21:45
My 640-1 above has an XS standard dot tritium. The jury is still out on it. It seems to take longer to make a 10 yard head shot with it than the standard sight. I am going to the range tomorrow to test it on a timer.
I was asked about the test results so here they are:
The course of fire I used was my Snub Core Skill Test, which is attached. Since most self-defense ammo comes packaged in 20 round boxes nowadays, the Course of Fire is 20 rounds and I shot it once for each sight system. The ammo I used is Bill Rogers' Bianchi wadcutter load, which runs about 746fps (chronoed) / 110 power factor out of a snub. It's quite a bit hotter than mid-range wadcutters, but comfortable to shoot for longer sessions.
Shot between 5PM-6PM on a sunny day but I was in a shaded bay. The lighting was probably equivalent to a well-lit indoor room.
I used three snubs with four different sighting systems.
640-1 with standard sights as supplied
This was the cold run, so it's possible some training effect could have taken place for the subsequent runs, but I don't think it was a material factor.
640-1 with XS Standard Dot front sight, notch rear as supplied on the gun.
642 with front sight painted orange (laser off)
642 with CT-405 Laser Grip
If anything, I was feeling a little tired and rushed for the laser run.
Target used was the AZ DPS TQ-19 (www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=TQ-19TCA-AZDPS)
Scoring Method
IDPA adapted scoring
Headshots in triangle and center chest shots = -0
Next ring on body/head = -1
Hits on body outside second ring = -3
Since I wanted to use this as a sight test, I eliminated the time for the reload and subsequent shot in the calculations. I did include the time for the first shot of that string. I also did not wear a concealment garment because I didn't want to induce a variable of hitching the draw due to a concealment garment.
I calculated the results using several different penalty factors. Standard IDPA penalty is .50 second. Rob Leatham came up with .20 second penalty version, which yields a result close to IPSC Comstock scoring. My personal choice is .25 second penalty . As it turns out, the penalty factor did not affect the relative results.
End result
The XS finished last in every case.
The laser, which was quite visible, did the best except for the final 5 shot string. It was noticeably slower for me to track it in recoil on a long string vis-a-vis iron sights.
All strings less reload time
.20 Second Penalty
Orange 17.94
Black 18.30
Laser 19.06
XS 19.85
.25 Second Penalty
Orange 18.04
Black 18.40
Laser 19.16
XS 20.15
.50 Second Penalty
Orange 17.79
Black 18.15
Laser 18.91
XS 19.40
5 shot string removed
.20 Second Penalty
Laser 15.28
Orange 15.41
Black 15.94
XS 16.42
.25 Second Penalty
Laser 15.28
Orange 15.46
Black 16.04
XS 16.47
.50 Second Penalty
Laser 15.28
Orange 15.71
Black 16.54
XS 16.72
This test is only representative of my skill level with my eyes. As a result of this test, I am going to remove the XS Sight and put on a Meprolight night sight with the black part painted orange. I do my own pistol-smithing.
HH -- I just started using an orange front right after getting back from Rogers earlier this year. It definitely makes a difference. Nice to see our results validate each other.
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/warren-johno-daylight-350x233.jpg
Thanks for taking the time to do the test and also to report it in such detail.
Stay safe!
After years, (nearly 20) of carrying a 1911 in one form or another, I have made the switch to a wheel gun - it happened by accident. My wife took a pistol course and as a graduation present, I bought her a 642CT. Well, the Liberal kicked in and she now refuses to arm herself on any level. Rather than take it back, I started shooting it and fell in love. Now it's with me 24/7. I happened into 2,000 rounds of Speer GDHP +P 135gr and I train with and carry them exclusively...
I have a 37-2, never fired it, she's a safe queen :)
Also have a 642 for everyday carry, a 38 for special occasion and a model 10 for extra special occasion.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17880J_001.jpg
Sam keepin' it old school......nice J frames.
I see you have a Tyler "T" grip on the Body Gaurd. Do they still make those? They rock.
HeadHunter
07-19-08, 23:27
I see you have a Tyler "T" grip on the Body Gaurd [sic]. Do they still make those? They rock.http://www.t-grips.com/
Incidentally, the September 2008 Combat Handjob article the site refers to is Ed Lovette's in which he describes my setup of a Barami Hip-Grip, T-grip, and Hogue Handall Jr. http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/HeadHunter_album/Snubs/HipGrip-011.jpg
...Tyler "T" grip on the Body Gaurd. Do they still make those? They rock.
Tyler T-Grips for sale (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/511103904/m/9471021103)
Got a couple from Bob (s&w forum member). Fast shipping and great comms. $26.00 - $29.00 shipped.
HH -- I just started using an orange front right after getting back from Rogers earlier this year. It definitely makes a difference. Nice to see our results validate each other.
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/warren-johno-daylight-350x233.jpg
Thanks for taking the time to do the test and also to report it in such detail.
Stay safe!
What are you guys using to paint your sights orange with?
Pre key 642. Ankle or pocket carry BUG. G19/34 or 35 or 5 inch 1911 is primary.
The Jedi mind game continues.
I've moved the threads discussing sighting systems, which were becoming a threadjack -- one in which I participated, too -- over to a separate thread:
Sight systems (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17150)
AllAmerican
07-23-08, 18:31
Instead of investing $400 + in a new wheel gun, take a look at what Marc Morganti at Gemini Customs can do for your SP-101.
My keeper -101 (Glass bead package + tritium front sight):
Cheers,
Pk
PK, I appreciate the heads up on Gemini Customs! I sent mine in but opted out of the porting job. This one has been bead blasted, nite site, crowned, moon clip option, and trigger work, I could not believe how much better it shoots and handles. I added the Crimson Trace's myself.
A real custom piece! And Marco was very patient with my questions, and even saved me some money. Here are some pictures of the work.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101crown.jpg
The Crown
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101cyl.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101las.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101rear.jpg
A really top notch job and quick turnaround!
Thanks Again!
I'll be carrying this Smith when I get it. From the dealer that sold me a NIB bobbed hammer M37 (eta: DiscountGunDealer.com (http://discountgundealer.com/index.html) has 1 M37-2 and 6 642-1s left):
I have attached some pictures of your gun to help with the questions. .38 SPL +P, 37-2, the date code to the right of the serial # is 8190, which means the gun was assembled the 190th day of 2008. The cylinder stop can be seen in picture 5 (sorry it is a little out of focus). Hope this helps.
NIB Smith & Wesson Model 37-2, post-MIM, post-Internal lock:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8383/picture001zb3.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture001zb3.jpg)
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3891/picture002hw5.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture002hw5.jpg)
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7409/picture003wd9.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture003wd9.jpg)
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1599/picture004ay9.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture004ay9.jpg)
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/788/picture005kx3.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture005kx3.jpg)
I put in an order for a 642 without the lock today. What SD ammo should I buy?
I put in an order for a 642 without the lock today. What SD ammo should I buy?
What I use (along with LAPD and NYPD) and recommend is the Speer Gold Dot 135gr.+P JHP. Its designed for maximum expansion from the snubby's short barrel. The above mentioned agencies are very happy with its performance from what I've read.
David Thomas
07-24-08, 20:01
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/SW642005.jpg
PK, I appreciate the heads up on Gemini Customs! I sent mine in but opted out of the porting job. This one has been bead blasted, nite site, crowned, moon clip option, and trigger work, I could not believe how much better it shoots and handles. I added the Crimson Trace's myself.
A real custom piece! And Marco was very patient with my questions, and even saved me some money. Here are some pictures of the work.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101crown.jpg
The Crown
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101cyl.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101las.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/M4AllAmerican/SP101rear.jpg
A really top notch job and quick turnaround!
Thanks Again!
How much did the work you had done cost you if you don't mind me asking? That is exactly what I want to do to my SP101...
Thanks,
JC
AllAmerican
07-24-08, 20:59
How much did the work you had done cost you if you don't mind me asking? That is exactly what I want to do to my SP101...
Thanks,
JC
Hi JC,
I have little over 400 in the gun but I opted for some Delfatti leather and that brought the price up. He has different option packages for the SP101. Like I said I did not want the porting because I had a bad experience with a ported gun in a class once... You can sort of pick and choose what you want from them. Shipping now a days is also high, you have to add that in. IMHO in this case it is well worth the cost. I can't say enough about the work. My SP 101 is my constant companion! My sister wants her's done now to...
Here is the link----
http://www.geminicustoms.com/index.htm
Good Shooting!!!!
Jack
Hi JC,
I have little over 400 in the gun but I opted for some Delfatti leather and that brought the price up. He has different option packages for the SP101. Like I said I did not want the porting because I had a bad experience with a ported gun in a class once... You can sort of pick and choose what you want from them. Shipping now a days is also high, you have to add that in. IMHO in this case it is well worth the cost. I can't say enough about the work. My SP 101 is my constant companion! My sister wants her's done now to...
Here is the link----
http://www.geminicustoms.com/index.htm
Good Shooting!!!!
Jack
Thanks for the info Jack... Much appreciated !!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/SW642005.jpg
Not a bad looking EDC setup. Thats one wicked looking knife. Is it custom?
David Thomas
07-24-08, 23:02
Not a bad looking EDC setup. Thats one wicked looking knife. Is it custom?
Thanks.
The knife is a Warren Thomas T-REX. Made of Titanium and G10... No steel. So, as you can imagine it is very light.
PK, I appreciate the heads up on Gemini Customs! I sent mine in but opted out of the porting job. This one has been bead blasted, nite site, crowned, moon clip option, and trigger work, I could not believe how much better it shoots and handles. I added the Crimson Trace's myself.
A real custom piece! And Marco was very patient with my questions, and even saved me some money. Here are some pictures of the work.
A really top notch job and quick turnaround!
Thanks Again!
Glad to see another satisfied Gemini Customs owner - his work, customer focus, and the turn-around times are fantastic, IMHO - everytime I get a chance to shoot my SP-101, I'm reminded of it. (Unfortunately, my budget has me focused on addressing the BRD sickness). Nice set-up on that 2 1/4"!
Cheers,
Pk
I regularly carry a wheelgun for CCW use. I have ever since I turned 18 and got my first unrestricted LTC here in MA (they changed the law now, you have to be 21). Back then, I could carry, but I couldn't buy one, so I was carrying one of my father's guns. But when I turned 21, my good friend Karl Sokol of Chestnut Mountain Sports (http://chestnutmountainsports.com/) built me a 3" M65. After many years of shooting, and too much hammering with magnum loads, it started to get a lot of flame cutting and was pretty loose. Then, I became a cop and my Chief wouldn't allow me to carry it, even off duty, since it was modified. So, I made the mistake of trading it away.
Fast forward on to, well, many years later, I had Karl build me a few more S&W K's. I traded into a PC M66 F-Comp, but it just was nowhere near as good as Karl's work. So, I dropped off a 2-1/2" M66 no dash to him, along with a 3" M13. I gave him a list of what I wanted done and let him loose to do whatever else he thought they needed. Here are a few old, low quality pics.
http://www.cqbarms.com/photos/albums/userpics/normal_M66_1.jpg
http://www.cqbarms.com/photos/albums/userpics/normal_M13_1.JPG
Today, since it's hot and I'm in shorts and a tank top, I have a S&W 642 in each front pocket. When I was a cop before I got hurt, I always had my primary duty weapon and a backup, along with 2 long guns in the cruiser, too, so why not carry a backup now, right?
AllAmerican
07-27-08, 12:39
I regularly carry a wheelgun for CCW use. I have ever since I turned 18 and got my first unrestricted LTC here in MA (they changed the law now, you have to be 21). Back then, I could carry, but I couldn't buy one, so I was carrying one of my father's guns. But when I turned 21, my good friend Karl Sokol of Chestnut Mountain Sports (http://chestnutmountainsports.com/) built me a 3" M65. After many years of shooting, and too much hammering with magnum loads, it started to get a lot of flame cutting and was pretty loose. Then, I became a cop and my Chief wouldn't allow me to carry it, even off duty, since it was modified. So, I made the mistake of trading it away.
Fast forward on to, well, many years later, I had Karl build me a few more S&W K's. I traded into a PC M66 F-Comp, but it just was nowhere near as good as Karl's work. So, I dropped off a 2-1/2" M66 no dash to him, along with a 3" M13. I gave him a list of what I wanted done and let him loose to do whatever else he thought they needed. Here are a few old, low quality pics.
Today, since it's hot and I'm in shorts and a tank top, I have a S&W 642 in each front pocket. When I was a cop before I got hurt, I always had my primary duty weapon and a backup, along with 2 long guns in the cruiser, too, so why not carry a backup now, right?
Nice guns! You know the model 13 was the FBI issue weapon for many years, and IMO is still a very good wheel gun, just a little heavy for CC for me, though my SP101 is no light weight, it stll carries well in front pocket or an uncle mikes IWB at the appendix position....
My 3" M13 is a Century Arms re-import. I had to post online on Gunboards.com, where old guns are the main topics, to figure out what the proofmarks were. They are the Frech St. Anne mark, so I guess mine was a French police gun. You could tell that it was dropped a lot more than it was shot. Being a French gun, I'm not surprised. Their nation sport is surrendering:D.
Honestly, it was in rough shape, but I got a good deal on it. There was only about 50% blue left on it, with scuffs, the front sight was bent in from both sides, and it had a set of unknown manufacture N-frame rubber grips on it. I bought it for a project gun anyway, so I wasn't concerned.
Karl Sokol is the only gunsmith I'd trust my guns to. He's a true one-man shop. There are way too many nationally known shops out there who are just like general contractors. They take in the work and job out everything! I never knew this until recently. The wait you have to endure with Karl is because he's got a lot of work and nobody, unless you want a custom finish other than his, is all done by him. Nobody else's hands touch your gun. With many of the very famous shops, your gun, or at least parts of it, is sent all over the country to be worked on to "specialty shops".
Heads up: Smith & Wesson has 442 no-locks coming. RSR Part # SW102810FC.
My EDC firearm is a S&W 360 with Winchester SXT rounds.
I fondly refer to this as my always gun.
The portability of the S&W J frame is incredible and thus it gets the nod most of the time.
I feel that the area, season, attire and activities have a big effect on my choice of carry weapon and I will tailor the holster and firearm accordingly but I have to admit that that little J frame gets the nod most of the time.
Alpha Sierra
08-20-08, 17:56
I sometimes carry this in a CTAC when wearing loose fitting, square cut shirts:
http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/20/008/2B/DB/1D/BA/sZbzyeZK8vxuUj01SVIsWO8wfRtifFwN0300.jpg
4" Model 629 Mountain Gun. I load Hornady 180 grain XTP 44 Specials for social work.
Just spoke with Karl and he has my 642-1 FEDEX'd and on the way - I should get it Friday. I got his trigger job and will probably be sending a few of my forged action J frames next. Thanks for the recommendaiton also. I had heard of him from the smith-wessonforum, so when I read your feedback here I decided to try his services. Had a long conversation with him today and he's just a great guy (former LE). He was describing his VT location and how he carries his 640 everywhere on his property etc.
Karl and I grew up in the same small town. The same place he served as an LEO. I don't just recommend Karl because he's my friend, I recommend him because of the quality of his work. I can't wait for my next project to be done, and I haven't even decided what I'm going to send him yet!
Dan Goodwin
09-18-08, 10:30
Hawgleg, whose stocks are those on your revolvers?
AlphaSierra, glad I'm not the only one who packs a Mountain Gun on a "heavy" day!
Hawgleg, whose stocks are those on your revolvers?
They look to me like the Precision Gun Specialties grips; I think Brownells still sells them. I'v got a set for a J-frame that I used a long time, until I replaced them with Spegels.
AlphaSierra, glad I'm not the only one who packs a Mountain Gun on a "heavy" day!
Not a Mountain Gun, but I do have a 4" Redhawk coming soon; today I ordered an IWB holster for it.
Hawgleg, whose stocks are those on your revolvers?
They are Precision Gun Specialties grips from Brownell's. I also have a set of the finger groove grips on my 317 snubby. They are made from hard nylon and cost less than $20. I've used them on my carry wheelguns since Karl built me my first 3" M65 when I turned 21.
crebralfix
09-19-08, 15:02
I've been carrying this Lew Horton M27:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/crebralfix/revolvers/SW27sharp.jpg
...in this holster I made:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/crebralfix/holsters/strongSide/frontSS.jpg
Alpha Sierra
09-19-08, 16:47
Some wheel gun holsters, all from Kevin Manley
3" Lew Horton Model 29 in Eagle Defender
http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/20/008/35/7E/E6/CD/K6OtQbl9nCcDLpKTsbptkzQtbBNKw24R0300.jpg
4" Model 65 in Eagle Defender
http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/16/008/5F/FF/E3/0C/eOfx7jPPL8hzcoBNhG5D0pLvD2MgeE660300.jpg
4" Model 65 in Cochise Defender
http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/002/19/DD/E0/02/bEpOuuF0+oaKBUx9GYMd-qK6pzbjE-Hj0300.jpg
Alpha Sierra
09-19-08, 16:49
AlphaSierra, glad I'm not the only one who packs a Mountain Gun on a "heavy" day!
And mine just got easier to pack with its new handles
http://shutter01.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/17/008/7F/DE/C9/ED/7Ykk+afiPYO1kYCJcTlWOTTI9nwKwBfh0300.jpg
AllAmerican
09-19-08, 16:53
Heads up: Smith & Wesson has 442 no-locks coming. RSR Part # SW102810FC.
I had my local dealer order me one and they got it in 2 days. I hope S&W takes note and gets rid of the stupid lock. They sell tons of locks for guns, hell you can even get them free down at the PD. Just MHO.
AllAmerican
09-19-08, 16:57
And mine just got easier to pack with its new handles
http://shutter01.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/17/008/7F/DE/C9/ED/7Ykk+afiPYO1kYCJcTlWOTTI9nwKwBfh0300.jpg
That is a really nice rig! I always wanted one of the Lew Horton 3" 44 spl. they made some years back, but could never get my hands on one.....
Oh well. Nice gun!
Alpha Sierra
09-19-08, 17:55
That is a really nice rig! I always wanted one of the Lew Horton 3" 44 spl. they made some years back, but could never get my hands on one.....
Oh well. Nice gun!
That's actually a 4" 629 Mountain Gun. The perspective makes it seem shorter than it is.
This, however, is a 3" Lew Horton Model 29 from 1985 :D:
http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/001/7E/BC/59/FE/HmwLOHcWNJFfH2fQznAtc9D3j6SZzPES0300.jpg
AllAmerican
09-19-08, 19:45
[QUOTE=Alpha Sierra;221216]That's actually a 4" 629 Mountain Gun. The perspective makes it seem shorter than it is.
This, however, is a 3" Lew Horton Model 29 from 1985 :D:
Well THAT is a really nice gun too!!
Thanks for sharing!
Jack
sigmundsauer
09-20-08, 17:40
I've been carrying this Lew Horton M27:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/crebralfix/revolvers/SW27sharp.jpg
...in this holster I made:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/crebralfix/holsters/strongSide/frontSS.jpg
Darn fine revo! I did shed a tear or two at your dimpling of the nice cocobolo grips, however. Did you change out the cylinder release?
I have a Lew Horton 3.5" and 5" M27-8. I love the 3.5" and the stocks they put on mine are far too beautiful for me to take off.
I absolutely get excited when I see 8-shot .357 N-frames. Fantastic!
Tim
crebralfix
09-21-08, 18:37
Tim,
This is a NEW Registered Magnum, not an old one (note "The Lock"). It holds eight rounds and has many Performance Center additions.
The grips are not serial numbered. The stippling makes the gun controllable during rapid fire. The upper area of the grips has turned out to be very important for me in maintaining a proper grip. Prior to the stippling, the gun would twist in my hand, forcing me to fiddle after every two shots.
Needless to say, the gun shoots very, very well. Standard pressure 38 Special rounds feel like hot 22LR out of a Ruger Mk III.
sigmundsauer
09-22-08, 20:58
Tim,
This is a NEW Registered Magnum, not an old one (note "The Lock"). It holds eight rounds and has many Performance Center additions.
Yes, I know. Although not as sought after as the originals I still was a little disappointed to see the grips dimpled. Nevertheless, it is your revo and I especially respect the fact that you are using yours for what it was intended and not a safe queen.
I have one just like yours, and was fortunate to get a low serial number (17) ...and although I fully intended on substituting some better grips I could not bring myself to do it as the wood on mine are truly beautiful.
My 3.5", however, was equipped with the retro-styled cylinder release. So, too, was my 5". Yours is the first M27-8 I've seen with the standard angled cylinder release. I think it's more functional but I did not know any of the new registered magnums were equipped like such.
I've not shot mine a lot but most of what I put thru mine are Buffalo Bore 158 gold dots, and 180 grain hard casts. That is A LOT of fun to shoot! I can think of few better trail guns. I have a 4" 327PD coming shortly that will become my new hiking buddy.
Tim
When I carry a revolver I'm partial to the three inch K frame Smiths. The bobbed hammer 66 (middle right) or the Model 65 (bottom left) usually ride in a Bulman SDS holster. I've had good luck with the Winchester Silvertip 357 ammo.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/akviper/100_2850.jpg
I've carried a Ruger 5 1/2" Redhawk in the past as a hunting backup. Loaded with Garrett Hammerhead ammo. Still have the gun, just don't hunt too much anymore.
AKVIPER..........Nice collection! There is SOMETHING about a revolver. It's kinda like looking at an old Harley that's been stripped down. YOU SEE all the major working parts(especially the Smiths with the firing pin on the hammer!!)very little hidden from view. Just COOL:cool:stuff!!
I alternate front left pocket carry between a S&W 342PD .38 spl w/ laser grips, a S&W M60 .38spl with Bobbed hammer and a S&W M36 .38 spl w/ Bobbed hammer. I love carring the 342PD due to the light wt but I enjoy shoot the other 2 due to the heavier wt. I usually carry the 342 buy if it's dirty, I slip one of the others inyo the holster and into the front pocket.
I have many revolvers but these I carry. Years ago I carried a 3' M65 or a 3" M13 but I went back to auto's for primary carry. I have rugers, colts and s&w's in most frame sizes and barrel lengths. These 3 get used and carried the most. ( mainly as a BUG but sometimes primary)
I carry a pre-lock 642 with CT lasergrips all day, every day.
I've got the same setup with a Nelson Ford action job. Great gun for an evening jog in the 'hood.
Alpha Sierra
09-24-08, 17:36
AKVIPER..........Nice collection! There is SOMETHING about a revolver. It's kinda like looking at an old Harley that's been stripped down. YOU SEE all the major working parts(especially the Smiths with the firing pin on the hammer!!)very little hidden from view. Just COOL:cool:stuff!!
+1
The balance of 3" S&Ws, particularly N frames, is something to admire.
what about a ruger police service six
mine is a nypd issued .38spl, i love it
I've been carrying a Dan Wesson 4" .357 Model 14 lately, in a Simply Rugged pancake holster.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/M6hUbfSSE0ZYxud-nXk6d4v09grqSb3YEwH1Orr-MJ8?feat=directlink
legumeofterror
12-23-10, 11:57
I sometimes carry a 6" Smith and Wesson Model 28-2 under a jacket when weather permits.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/LegumeOfTerror/GUNS/IMG_2306.jpg
Lucky Strike
12-23-10, 12:12
I use this for summer months carry. No lock 642 that's been worked over by Teddy Jacobson (total action job, chamfered cylinder, contoured trigger face, recrown barrel, painted frontsight) with a Crimson Trace LG405
The appendix carry holster was made to my specs by RKBA Leather. I wanted something that would be super concealable so I had him make it extra lowriding.
It's easily the most concealable belt holster setup I've used and I can wear it without printing using only a wifebeater (not that i'd walk around outside with just a wifebeater on).....with a t-shirt it's invisible.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chicano11/IMG_1229.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chicano11/IMG_1236.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chicano11/IMG_1231.jpg
I carry a 442 lock-less 38 everyday.
I carry a 642 Lockw/ CTG's, A-Lot.. I bought the Revo, brand new from a buddy for 250, then I scored the grips on ebay for 90+.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/DSC_0466.jpg
I looked for something to stick in my jacket pocket during the winter or in a baggy pair of pants during the summer without having to go to an inside the waistband holster which I sometimes use. I decided on the M&P 340 .357 with Gold Dot .38+P 135 gr. Short Barrel ammo. I wanted the 340PD until I started handling the XS sighted M&P340. The stainless cylinder gave me a little more weight over the titanium cylinder of the 340PD and I hardly know it is in my pocket.
I changed to a slightly larger grip than what came on the revolver and it helped with recoil which is not bad at all. My all time favorite wheelguns are the Mdl. 19, 66 K frames and the 686 L frame. I've recommended the 2 1/2" mdl. 19 and 66 to several friends and they have been pleased. They don't ride well in a pocket but are nice in a holster if you do not mind a little more weight.
titsonritz
12-27-10, 22:46
I have carried a number of revolvers in the past:
S&W 19 4” barrel
S&W 629 4” barrel
S&W 65 heavy 3” barrel
S&W 66 3” barrel
Lew Horton Custom S&W 686 7-shot 3” barrel
S&W 342
Ruger Security-Six 4” barrel
Ruger SP101 2 1/4” barrel
But none currently, the only revolver I own these days is an S&W 610, I sometimes pack it in the woods or when I’m horseback riding, but by usual woods gun is my Glock 20. I’d like to get another J-frame but this time it’ll be a 442 or 642. Unless I run across a 649.
A 629 hurts to carry in a IWB. I've carried them in a shoulder holster for walks around the neighbor hood.
I started in police work carrying a Ruger Security Six with a Colt Cobra as a BUG.
Over the years I have and several other revolvers, and still currently carry S&W J frames daily.
MY two primary carry BUGs are 642s with CT grips, I have the 305s as the 405s did not exist when I bought into the laser idea.
Current carry ammo is 135gr Gold Dot, but I have used Cor Bon DPX and Buffalo Bore WCs as well. I'm not too picky about ammo, as long as its a quality load that hits to POA then I'm happy.
cant go wrong with the j frames . I run the 442 as a pocket BUG . For a long time I carried a Lew Horton 3" 44 spl as my EDC .
Long live the smith j frame
The biggest one I carried in a shoulder holster was a 629 with an 8 3/8 barrel.
That lasted about 15 minutes. Freakin heavy!
Possibly the best carrying revolver in an OWB holster would be a nice 66 K frame in 357 with a 3 inch barrel. Good firepower in a nice compact system. Light too!
I carried a Service-six for years. Though I typically carry an Automatic, I still slip a M85 titanium in my pocket on a regular basis.
I usually carry a wheel gun during the summer months when I'm not wearing as much bulky clothing. Just have a Rossi .38 3in barrel
A Smith 431 32H&R mag, sometimes finds its way into my pocket.
Chris
My EDC is a J frame 637. Its also my BUG at work.
A Smith & Wesson 642 with Crimson Trace is either my primary or back up every day. Often this 66 with 2 1/2" barrel with 158 gr. JHP in the 5shot Leather by John Ralston is the primary. I also have a model 60 rated for .357 that I carry. I carry these wheelguns when I'm not carrying my Colt lightweight Commander.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCI0074.JPG
I have a Smith model 13 3" Heavy Barrell..all I have done to this revolver is change out the original grips with a Houge replacement which I like.
I shoot full house Magnum loads in the revolver frequently but as most do....I practice more with hotter .38 special loadings.
I carry one on the job every day. S&W 620 4" .357 mag. I'd rather carry a semi-auto, though.
My carry guns have been Glocks for a number of years. And they still are. But when I know I'm going to be going for a long walk or hike, on a beach, or in the woods, etc. I like to also carry a 640 in my coat pocket.
Here's my reasoning. If you are concerned that approachers might become a threat, you can be ready and able to shoot instantly, right through the coat pocket if need be. The internal hammer J-frame models are priceless in this regard.... the ability to be fired from within a coat pocket.
There are circumstances where a seemingly non-threatening approacher becomes a threat so quickly that one may not be able to draw a concealed, holstered weapon quickly enough to gain decisive advantage... this is where the hand on a pocketed revolver provides instant readiness, if necessary, without having to even draw the weapon from the pocket - - and where no weapon need be drawn or be made known about, if not needed. Priceless defense advantage! Pre-lock, of course. With 135gr. .357 mag. Gold Dots. What you give up in carrying comfort with the steel frame is more than made up for with improved control & shoot-ability. If forced to give up all weapons but one... I think this would be the one kept due to concealability, reliability, and potency.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/S%20and%20W%20Revos/640_LF2677.jpg
David Thomas
12-31-10, 16:33
A Smith & Wesson 642 with Crimson Trace is either my primary or back up every day. Often this 66 with 2 1/2" barrel with 158 gr. JHP in the 5shot Leather by John Ralston is the primary. I also have a model 60 rated for .357 that I carry. I carry these wheelguns when I'm not carrying my Colt lightweight Commander.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCI0074.JPG
I love that rig!!!
As a matter of fact, I contacted John about a rig or two for some wheel guns just the other day.
I love that rig!!!
As a matter of fact, I contacted John about a rig or two for some wheel guns just the other day.
Thank you sir. I've been looking for a leather holster for the 66 for awhile. I've used the Don Hume JIT for many years but never felt secure with retention as the holster barely surrounds just the cylinder and trigger portion. I tried a Desantis Scabbard (it was a pancake configuration) but found it extremely uncomfortable. Found this holster by accident as John put it for sale because the customer that ordered it didn't like the color. His loss, my gain. It is secure, very comfortable and positive presentation. Mr. Ralston make good stuff.
The_War_Wagon
12-31-10, 17:21
Taurus 605 - mostly in the summer, in shorts and tee shirt, though.
David Thomas
12-31-10, 18:08
...Found this holster by accident as John put it for sale because the customer that ordered it didn't like the color. His loss, my gain. It is secure, very comfortable and positive presentation. Mr. Ralston make good stuff.
He does make good leather. I am familiar with his 1911 rigs. I need some j frame and k frame rigs now. I love the color of your holster.
I may have to get a rig like yours for a model 19.
Another good holster maker is loboleather.com I have a nice IWB holster for my 627, 2 7/8" barrel.
In case it wasn't mentioned - admittedly didn't read every post - as some have complained about the S&W internal lock, "Bullseye Smith" on the Smith and Wesson forum sells removal kits with nice covers for the holes which remain.
I have no interest in or association with either, just passing it along.
Another good holster maker is loboleather.com I have a nice IWB holster for my 627, 2 7/8" barrel.
.
that's a great looking website and the info provided far above the norm. I'm looking for some revolver holsters and will likely try out Lobo. Thanks.
Alpha Sierra
01-01-11, 12:08
Lobo Gunleather makes great revolver holsters.
I am a happy customer.
David Thomas
01-02-11, 11:30
I aready posted a pic of my 642, but for some reason the blued guns were left out.
Here they are. They get carried mainly as backup guns, but every once in a while one is carried as my main CCW.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/JFrames018-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/JFrames001-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/JFrames016.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/JFrames014.jpg
Beautiful little buggers.
Unfortunatley there seems to be a current trend away from revolvers by those who don't recognize their value. The agency I retired from will let me come back and qualify with my airweight bodyguard for carry under HR218 but the Sheriff's Office I part time for says NO revolvers as BUs or anything!
I've been carrying that little .38 for a LONG time, I hate to stop now.
There is a limited place for revolvers. I can see one for a backup, or for a car gun if you buy dope and might get in a wrestling match, etc.
It'll fire 5 rounds from INSIDE my jacket pocket without a problem!
It would likely set my coat on fire but that might be OK under the circumstances!
I often carry a J in my jacket pocket in case I need to buy time to get under my jacket to my 9mm. I don't wear my J alone.
M&P 340. Took me a while to get used to shooting it. Grip angle seems to require a little more downward angle, kinda like a GLOCK.
Front Night Sight, I use it for my Ultra light weight carry. Very happy with this gun.
titsonritz
01-02-11, 16:35
Possibly the best carrying revolver in an OWB holster would be a nice 66 K frame in 357 with a 3 inch barrel. Good firepower in a nice compact system. Light too!
I agree. The sweet thing about the 3” 66 is it’s small but still has a full length ejection rod for shucking out empties. It’s a great size, sort like the Glock 19 of the revolver world.
I agree. The sweet thing about the 3” 66 is it’s small but still has a full length ejection rod for shucking out empties. It’s a great size, sort like the Glock 19 of the revolver world.
+1. It is what I carry when I feel the need to carry a revolver as my primary. The problem is that my loaded 66 weights the same as my loaded M&P9. 6 rounds vs 18 rounds. Logic tells me to go with the 9, but my heart says go with the 66.
It'll fire 5 rounds from INSIDE my jacket pocket without a problem!
It would likely set my coat on fire but that might be OK under the circumstances!
Nope, I have done this, no fire. You would need a new coat though.
Unfortunatley there seems to be a current trend away from revolvers by those who don't recognize their value. The agency I retired from will let me come back and qualify with my airweight bodyguard for carry under HR218 but the Sheriff's Office I part time for says NO revolvers as BUs or anything!
I've been carrying that little .38 for a LONG time, I hate to stop now.
I see more and more places doing this. Disallowing J frames as BUGs is just stupid as hell. They serve a role as a back-up gun far better than most of the alternatives, including small .380s, etc.
I used to carry a G26 as my BUG, but the gun is just enough bigger and heavier than a airweight J frame to case me concealment and other issues.
It'll fire 5 rounds from INSIDE my jacket pocket without a problem!
This is the true value of the J-frame, internal hammer models. As a BUG, I'd much prefer a G26, but no semi-auto is going to work as an inside-the-coat-pocket, fire-instantly, get-the-drop-on-the-guy-who-thought-he-had-the-drop-on-you gun. ;)
And no worries about tearing up the danged coat... small price to pay!
Nope, I have done this, no fire. You would need a new coat though.
LOL!!!
I hope you didn't ruin a really good coat.
At least you're still around to tell about it.
I'll just hope it never comes to that.
I've carried a SW Model 38 Bodyguard for about 3 years now, as a BUG and CCW. Rarely do I go without it. I've owned and carried different snubbies, but the Bodyguard is the best option for me due to the shrouded hammer, weight, and concealability.
My .02
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy252/ucfiveoh/SDC12241.jpg
Looks pretty much like mine. I used a "Tyler T grip" also but took it off a few years ago and use a Pachmayr grip now. We had to qualify with those little guns out to 15 yards and the T grip was a little tough when shooting the 158 LHP +P rounds.
LOL!!!
I hope you didn't ruin a really good coat.
At least you're still around to tell about it.
I'll just hope it never comes to that.
Was research, nothing serious. I've blown up about a dozen old coats in testing. Never had an issue with bursting into flames.
Was research, nothing serious. I've blown up about a dozen old coats in testing. Never had an issue with bursting into flames.
Coats are relatively worthless. The ability to defend yourself instantly is priceless. A 640 or similar, fired from within the coat pocket, can easily be worth all of the finest coats you could possibly dream of owning.
Tpd223.... Great testing, wasn't it! Even if a coat might ignite... BFD.
Alaskapopo
01-04-11, 03:59
The ability to fire in a coat pocket is a bit over rated I believe. You are talking about un sighted fire basically hip shooting that is not the most reliable way to put rounds on a target. Your better off getting the gun out and using it like it was intended. Shot placement is king.
Pat
Popo... You must have misunderstood the concept. No one suggested that shooting through the coatpocket is the *best* way to defend oneself under most circumstances with a revolver. It's but one option that under *some* circumstances IS quite possibly your ONLY viable option. Other circumstances, other tactics. If you have the time and distance to pull the weapon before firing it, of course, do so. If you have the time and distance to draw a better weapon than a snub nose revolver, by all means do that instead. Each circumstance dictates the most appropriate response and, hopefully, one will have a variety of options to choose from according to what situation presents itself.
my father used to carry a S&W mod36 when he was a cop :p
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8958/6088.jpg
he still has this gun
My BUG is a S&W 340PD, and I love it.
For pocket or ankle cary I use a Ti-Scan S&W 360PD. If I am going to wear a wheel gun on my hip then it is my 1970 Colt 2.5" Python. I am a sucker for old school (sometimes) and the Python has been a great workhorse for me. Finish is original and still holding up well.
MadDog :big_boss:
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/9505/python006.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3997/python001.jpg
Firing a handgun of any kind from my pocket isn't my first choice by any means but having your hand ON a gun ready to fire plus a possible element of surprise (for the bad guy) is always a step ahead in being prepared. I didn't ask for a fight but if approached by the wrong person who is, the 5 quick ones from the pocket might save me....
I USUALLY leave the house with a 5" 1911 or a Glock 17 IWB. I NEVER leave the house without my S&W J-frame and Crimson Trace Laser grips. It is either carried in one of several A-IWB holsters or a pocket holster. While not the optimal choice for a handgun that one may use in a gunfight, it is just so perfectly suited to discreet carry that I never leave home without one. It is is so effortless to carry that I don't even think twice about carrying it, which is a good thing because it ensures that no matter how lazy I may be feeling one day, I will always be armed.
Being able to fire from the pocket or a purse is merely a noted advantage, not a tactic I would endorse as "best".
I also note this advantage shows up outside of the pocket when one is caught at grappling range with the bad guy.
A recent home invasion here ended up with a dead home invader, but it was a very close thing for the home owner/good guy. In this situation the good guy would not hove gotten more than one shot off if he had anything else but a revolver.
This case also showed the old advice true; that a snubby is one of the toughest guns to strip from another person's hands. In this case that attribute was good for the good guy, bad for the bad guy.
I have three wheelguns I carry for differnet reasons/times/applications. I have tons of wheel guns, but only (3) I really carry enough to mention.
-S&W Chiefs Special prelock pinned and recessed barrel (Original Pre-Model 36).
-Ruger Security Six 2.75" Barrel .357 Magnum
-S&W Model 19 Combat (No lock, pinned and recessed)
Love'm all, all have advantages and disadvantages dependent upon my anticipated use/application of them.
All carry very well, the ruger a bit bulky, but I am a big guy (6'2" 225 lbs.) so it is not a problem for me at all. I prefer the Chiefs Special though; it just shoots dead on everytime, it feels like an extension of my arm.
My wife carries a pinned and recessed no lock S&W chiefs special as well, although hers is nickel/satin polished and looks shinier/newer than my dingged scrathced rugged 'ol boy ever did.
I used to carry a 6" barrel model 10, but it was just too long to keep carrying and conceal very well. Only in the colder months, but not even then anymore as I am much more used to the Chiefs Special and the Security Six now-a-days.
I also carry various 9mm autoloaders from time to time, but I usually stick to my trusty 'ol revolvers.
David Thomas
01-08-11, 12:47
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/003-9.jpg
Pumpkinheaver
01-08-11, 13:25
I pack an old Model 36 from time to time in the summer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/003-9.jpg
Nice looking holster, who made it?
I know this is random, but the background of that pic looks like a Filson brand Tin Cloth jacket...
Drew
varoadking
01-08-11, 18:49
Who carries a wheel gun?
Not for 33 years...
arcticlightfighter
01-08-11, 18:57
Im waiting on a 340PD M&P CT for summer carry/BUG. Not too excited about plunking down $750 bucks but I have got to try one. Ive owned several 642's but they are a bit too heavy for the intended use.
I have carried a 340PD with a CT laser grip for about two years now. My advantage is weight. Something like 13 ounces means it is on me at all times. I like the hammerless model for the obvious no snag issues and from what I had learned in my CC class. It is a better option in case I ever have to use it. I think it is geared for personal defense. So more than 5 shots should not be necessary. If I ever had to use it in a situation (and I hope to god that i will not), the adrenaline will keep me from feeling the recoil much. However at the range, I just use 38+p. I cant handle more than 5 shots with a 357.
Smith 642
http://www.danpassaro.com/img/s10/v18/p682093041.jpg
http://www.danpassaro.com/img/s1/v22/p774231735.jpg
Turns out it is NOT a 6 o'clock sight picture setup http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_abused.gif
http://www.danpassaro.com/img/s3/v23/p628277766.jpg
Center Mass http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
http://www.danpassaro.com/img/s9/v15/p916772031.jpg
Here's my S&W 940. I carry it on my vest daily. I also have ankle, A-IWB and OWB holsters for it when I don't feel like carrying one of my SIGs, or need something a little more discreet.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3683/dscf3893.jpg
I carry a SP101 as a BUG every day for work and sometimes during the summer for primary CCW loaded with 125 SJHP in .38 Special During hunting season I will carry this or my 4" GP100 loaded with Federal 125 SJHP .357 mag
The ability to fire in a coat pocket is a bit over rated I believe. You are talking about un sighted fire basically hip shooting that is not the most reliable way to put rounds on a target. Your better off getting the gun out and using it like it was intended. Shot placement is king.
Pat
You'd have to ask "Major Strasser" about whether shooting from a raincoat pocket is effective.:D (Closing scenes of "Casablanca": Rick shoots Strasser from a raincoat pocket.) Of course, that's the movies and you are quite correct. Aim from the hip, drag of the material possibly moving the muzzle, etc. Couldn't resist, though. I usually carry a 340PD unless going through what could be more risky; then it's an 8 shot 627, 2 5/8".
S&W 342PD (no lock) w/ .38 SPL +P when I'm not carrying my P239 DAK.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZtefsH8f-P8/TSDQkcs7zeI/AAAAAAAAAxE/TRdKhegex3Y/s800/photo.JPG
No one would argue that firing from within a coat pocket is ideal, nor the best possible choice for shooting a weapon if other better options are available. However, there are situations where other, better options cannot be put into place quickly enough.
There are situations where firing from within the coat pocket is quite possibly the only good chance one may have in defending oneself in time... situations where there simply isn't time to pull from a pocket or holster.
For example, you are taking a walk on a secluded trail, on a deserted area of a beach, or in an inner city neighborhood. Someone approaches who doesn't necessarily appear to be a serious threat. They stop when they are immediately in front of you and engage you in some sort of conversation, asking for a light or for directions, or whatever. Suddenly, they produce a weapon or reveal unmistakeable intent to do you serious harm. You could be ready for that with your hand on a revolver in your coat pocket and could fire instantly, if necessary, from within the coat pocket, without even having to reveal the fact that you are armed. The time it might take to pull your weapon from the pocket and take aim might be too long to meet the threat, but firing from the pocket could be instantaneous and potentially life saving from a very close proximity.
Such are the particular situations where no other weapon type can match the revolver with an internal hammer and these are the situations where shooting from within the pocket actually is the best option as it can allow firing INSTANTLY from a completely concealed position.
Certainly, the proximity to the threat would need to be very close for this to be likely to succeed! These types of situations do quite commonly occur during attempted muggings and such. It can be comforting to have an internal hammer revolver inside a coat pocket during situations where you may be at risk against strangers with ill intent. You can be ready to instantly defend yourself without having to reveal the fact that you are holding a weapon. That gives you the fraction of a second advantage that you simply do not have with a concealed, holstered weapon when someone with unclear intentions is in your immediate proximity and tries to get "the drop" on you.
Or, I'm in my Sheriff costume today working a "supervised visitation" with all kinds of folks and some are pretty seedy.
But, that little revolver in my pocket gives me a head start that will reset THEIR OODA loop when they have to react to me (I'm ready to go with 5 rounds of 158 LHP+P)!!!
A Ruger LCR, light and with a fairly nice trigger too.
As of today...
A Ruger LCR.
Once again following Dr. Sal's lead.
The little bugger shoots pretty doggone good.
I didn't like the trigger that much at first, but can't deny the results I'm getting on paper.
Six Feet Under
02-20-11, 11:26
I've got a S&W 642 I carry occasionally. Bought it last November and I've probably carried it 20-25 times since then. I'd rather have my G19 if given the option but sometimes due to clothes or where I'm going I need a smaller gun and don't really have a choice. The 642 plus a Bianchi speed strip gives me 10 rounds vs. the 33 total with the G19 (16 in the gun, with a 17rd mag in my pocket). I'll probably get a Crimson Trace laser whenever funds allow.
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv89/longrange308/Gear/025.jpg
Have gotten a new phone since then as well. Cracked the screen the morning of my second surgery on my right arm to remove some of the screws they put in when I got shot... that started that day off great.
sixgun-symphony
03-06-11, 05:28
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/DetSpl_LF1565.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/Detectives_RL.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/Detective_LF3981.jpg
I recommend the Colt Detective Special for a concealed carry piece. They're well built, accurate, and they hold six shots where the comparable J-frame S&W has five rounds.
David Thomas
03-12-11, 11:33
A big thanks to Jason Burton of Heirloom Precision fame for the hook up and fast shipment and another big thanks to John Ralston of 5 Shot leather for making such fantastic leather.
I am loving my new 5 Shot Ankle rig!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/020-3.jpg
malignantbum
03-12-11, 11:40
Model 36 with bobbed hammer an an XS front sight with cordon 110grn dpx when I'm "not carrying a gun"
operator81
03-12-11, 14:27
A big thanks to Jason Burton of Heirloom Precision fame for the hook up and fast shipment and another big thanks to John Ralston of 5 Shot leather for making such fantastic leather.
I am loving my new 5 Shot Ankle rig!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/020-3.jpg
How is the retention on the 5 Shot rig? I'm using a Renegade right now but that 5 Shot rig looks more comfortable, I just worry about having the pistol fall out.
I have this identical rig from John Ralston. The retention is excellent while allowing smooth presentation. The padding is very comfortable. John make good stuff.
operator81
03-12-11, 14:33
I have this identical rig from John Ralston. The retention is excellent while allowing smooth presentation. The padding is very comfortable. John make good stuff.
Thanks, I'll have to order one and try it out.
David Thomas
03-12-11, 15:12
How is the retention on the 5 Shot rig? I'm using a Renegade right now but that 5 Shot rig looks more comfortable, I just worry about having the pistol fall out.
I used to use a Renegade. Retention is at least equal. Comfort is not comparable at all. 5 shot is a thousand times more comfortable.
I can shake the 5 Shot rig upside down and the 37 stays put.
operator81
03-12-11, 15:16
I used to use a Renegade. Retention is at least equal. Comfort is not comparable at all. 5 shot is a thousand times more comfortable.
I can shake the 5 Shot rig upside down and the 37 stays put.
Thanks for the response, I'll order one once I can free up the funds.
willowofwisp
03-12-11, 16:39
A big thanks to Jason Burton of Heirloom Precision fame for the hook up and fast shipment and another big thanks to John Ralston of 5 Shot leather for making such fantastic leather.
I am loving my new 5 Shot Ankle rig!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/020-3.jpg
Nice set-up my future set up (1-2 weeks) is close to the same, 442 no lock, CT grips lg-405 and an alessi rig.
calviroman
03-12-11, 21:37
I carry a 340PD w/ .357 DPX in a Nemesis pocket holster.
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad51/calviroman/340PD.jpg
wetidlerjr
03-14-11, 05:56
I often carry a Ruger LCR (38SPL) as a BUG and sometimes as a primary CCW depending on clothing being worn and other conditions.
:D
230therapy
05-25-11, 13:20
This is the true value of the J-frame, internal hammer models. As a BUG, I'd much prefer a G26, but no semi-auto is going to work as an inside-the-coat-pocket, fire-instantly, get-the-drop-on-the-guy-who-thought-he-had-the-drop-on-you gun.
This is not correct. The semi-auto is good for at least one shot. I've *occasionally* gotten two or three shots off before the fabric gummed things up. The majority of the time recoil caused my hand to move, which caused "slack" in the fabric to jam the gun.
For blast furnace summers here in dallas where its frequently shorts/t-shirt with no gun belt, a SP101 or similar S&W is tough to beat for a quick run to the store or the like.
I carry mine in a galco clip-on IWB.
Heavy enough to absorb magnum loads,
Light enough to sit on a drawstring/elastic wasitband IWB.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/DetSpl_LF1565.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/Detectives_RL.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/Detective_LF3981.jpg
I recommend the Colt Detective Special for a concealed carry piece. They're well built, accurate, and they hold six shots where the comparable J-frame S&W has five rounds.
Hey six-gun.... I would have appreciated a request to take my pictures, rehost them on your server, and then repost them at your whim. Or at least a credit as the creator and copyright owner of the images. I am the photographer of those images, the owner of those guns, and the copyright holder to the images. Just sayin... would you mind removing them from your server?
I should add that in whatever process you used with my images, they have degraded significantly and look horrible at this point.
I carry a 640PD daily as a back up and off duty gun.
I quite often carry an 8 rounder 2" (N frame) S&W 327PC on my hip with my 360PD J frame in my pocket. Some days when I am feeling like going "old school" I carry a 2.5" Python and 2" Lawman MKIII in a New York Reload holster. Since I am a lefty the Python sits strong side and the Lawman is my cross draw backup. Why carry a speed loader when you can have a spare at your finger tips?
MadDog
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8216/coltlawman013.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7641/coltlawman005.jpg
David Thomas
05-27-11, 10:50
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8216/coltlawman013.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7641/coltlawman005.jpg
nice. I really need an old Colt.
Somehow, I do not see the smallish sights of fixed sight revolvers to be an issue. When time is of the essence, point shooting fixes the problem without the need for lasers. When time is more generous, I have no trouble aligning those sights.
Yep. I'm a point shooter. I'm delighted to hear this.I thought I was all alone here.:cool:
RagweedZulu
02-23-12, 09:25
A S&W 642 has ridden on my vest while on duty as a BUG for the better part of 12 years. Don't shoot it often, and occasionally drop it into the right pocket of my shorts in really hot weather. Nice little piece.
A Ruger GP100 .357 sits atop my fridge as a home invasion response option.
there are times I will carry an old S&W 38 spl. with a shrouded hammer. At times I will carry a small derringer.
+1 on the S&W 642.
Carrying it in the pocket is a nice option to have.
Punisher1336
02-23-12, 21:13
I carry a S&W 5 shot 2in 38cal off duty and as a back up when on duty (New York reload)
Alaskapopo
02-24-12, 03:01
I strongly advise against carrying an aluminum, titanium, or scandium frame compact revolver with 357 Magnums. Particularly with old school loads like Remington's violent 125 grain semi-jacketed hollow point.
Recoil will be severe. Muzzle flash will be extreme. And follow up shots will be slow.
If you want a compact revovler in 357 Magnum, I suggest Smith & Wesson's Model 60 or Ruger's SP101. Both are all steel (stainless) and will handle the recoil better. Even then, these are sub-30 ounce guns and I suggest using milder 357 loads like Remington's 125 grain Golden Saber or Cor Bon's 125 grain DPX. Both will stay under or around 1200 fps, rather than the 1450 - 1500 fps of the more traditional 125 357s.
If you want to carry full house Magnums, I would steer you in the direction of a stainless steel, mid size revolver like S&W's Models 65, 66, or 686. Concealment is not an issue even if you are a regular size guy. IME, revolvers, with their smooth curves and shorter grips are way easier to hide than semi autos.
I normally carry this (a S&W M65):
http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/24/00B/14/FF/1F/B0/O4NKWoIrhj4u838tPqvkIRFNwD5coTNb0300.jpg
in this (A K&D Holsters Cochise Defender):
http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/002/19/DD/E0/02/bEpOuuF0+oaKBUx9GYMd-qK6pzbjE-Hj0300.jpg
all day long in complete comfort and I am 5'8"/185.
Another good load is Buffalo Bore's 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point 38 Special +P. This thing clocks almost 1200 fps out of a 4" gun and 1000 from a 2" snub. I am a firm believer in heavy loads for caliber in handguns and the 158 grain lead semi wadcutter HP has a long history of working when it should.
The all steel guns are too heavy for pocket carry in my opinion. I run with my 340 in 357 mag. A all steel gun would not work and I would be better off going back to my Glock 26 if I had to carry that much weight. I see no sense in the all steel J frames.
pat
RepeatDefender
02-24-12, 10:06
From time to time, I carry a S&W model 15-3 in a Hunter leather thumb break.
My daughters (7 and 4) call it "daddy's cowboy gun" :D
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h250/TheyHateMe/Guns/15-3-2.jpg
i do....
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7424/003mvu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/003mvu.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
The all steel guns are too heavy for pocket carry in my opinion. I run with my 340 in 357 mag. A all steel gun would not work and I would be better off going back to my Glock 26 if I had to carry that much weight. I see no sense in the all steel J frames.
pat
Agreed, especially with the 642 being available for even cheaper than the 340 I can't see carrying a steel framed revolver.
Back to the op's question, I carry a 642 nearly all the time. That little thing disappears in a pocket and draws much easier than a squared off auto loader does in my practices.
The all steel guns are too heavy for pocket carry in my opinion. I run with my 340 in 357 mag. A all steel gun would not work and I would be better off going back to my Glock 26 if I had to carry that much weight. I see no sense in the all steel J frames.
pat
I run the 340 too in the hot AZ summer when attire makes it the viable option. I use a little Blackhawk neoprene with clip. I run the 38 variety out of mine.
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