View Full Version : Toddler shoots and kills Mother
WickedWillis
12-30-14, 16:21
Just up the road from my work today, a horrible tragedy took place. A 2-year old got into his Mother's purse and shot her with her concealed carry weapon at a local Wal Mart. I do not know all the details of this incredibly sad story, but you can bet the left and the anti-gunners are going to have a field day with this one. This obviously could have been avoided, I will add more information as it becomes available.
http://www.kxly.com/news/north-idaho-news/shooting-prompts-hayden-walmart-evacuation/30458938
I just saw this on the news. It's a sad accident which more than likely could've been prevented.
Reason #249 why "purse carry" is a really bad idea.
I hate to criticize the dead but this was a very preventable tragedy. But people put something in their purse and they walk away from it to get something off the shelf and here you go.
It is not much different from any of us unholstering our carry weapon, putting it on the floor and walking away from it for a minute or so to look at big screen TVs. There is a minimum standard of responsibility that needs to be observed if you are carrying a firearm, sadly not everyone understands what that minimum level is nor do they observe it.
About the only good thing that can be said is at least the kid isn't dead.
While everyone has the right to own a gun, the reality is there are many people who really shouldn't.
WickedWillis
12-30-14, 17:09
Reason #249 why "purse carry" is a really bad idea.
I hate to criticize the dead but this was a very preventable tragedy. But people put something in their purse and they walk away from it to get something off the shelf and here you go.
It is not much different from any of us unholstering our carry weapon, putting it on the floor and walking away from it for a minute or so to look at big screen TVs. There is a minimum standard of responsibility that needs to be observed if you are carrying a firearm, sadly not everyone understands what that minimum level is nor do they observe it.
About the only good thing that can be said is at least the kid isn't dead.
While everyone has the right to own a gun, the reality is there are many people who really shouldn't.
We are on the same page and I got blasted for saying roughly the same thing on a local forum, I meant no disrespect to the dead, but very easily she could still be with us.
Always hate to hear about accidents like this that didn't have to happen. That kind of irresponsiblity and ignorance of gun ownership makes me wonder if the parent even knew how to use it or it just was there to make her feel safer, I agree with Styer, some people shouldn't have them, and thankfully the child wasn't hurt or killed, that would be awful to have to live with on your shoulders. Prayers sent to the family.
We are on the same page and I got blasted for saying roughly the same thing on a local forum, I meant no disrespect to the dead, but very easily she could still be with us.
A lot of those who would criticize both of us for not being respectful of the dead are probably similarly complacent or have a wife who is similarly complacent. The bottom line is the both of us are angry (or at least I am) because with a incredibly small amount of personal responsibility would have meant the mother would still be alive.
I don't want to deny her a right to carry or a means to protect herself. But I also don't want her dead because somebody didn't instill the proper amount of personal responsibility into her head when it came to firearms.
If you aren't going to make sure you are being safe and aren't a danger to yourself or others, then the reality is your firearm is NOT making you safer and it has in fact become a liability to you and everyone around you. Do it right or don't do it at all.
These kinds of situations should NEVER happen. With an incredibly small amount of personal awareness and correct instruction we could prevent it from every happening again. Then we could just have the useless, pointless tragedies be mostly associated with swimming pools and cell phone usage while driving.
SeriousStudent
12-30-14, 18:48
Damn, what a terrible thing. Making yourself an orphan at age two.
My thoughts and prayers are with the family.
Locally last year we had a 25acp purse gun go off in lowes and blast the cashier elbow to hell.
This is a terrible situation that people should learn from. And Im sure the media will say "look guns are bad".
With rights come responsibility. Do these people not use a holster, and just drop it in there? Ugh, so sad! The ease of prevention makes it so much worse.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-30-14, 21:19
With rights come responsibility. Do these people not use a holster, and just drop it in there? Ugh, so sad! The ease of prevention makes it so much worse.
Or in a concealed pocket inside the purse. Some kind of retention method would be a minimum for me to put a gun off my person.
Thugs like Brown take 10+ rounds to bring down and this mom gets killed with one round.
Mauser KAR98K
12-31-14, 04:55
Just up the road from my work today, a horrible tragedy took place. A 2-year old got into his Mother's purse and shot her with her concealed carry weapon at a local Wal Mart. I do not know all the details of this incredibly sad story, but you can bet the left and the anti-gunners are going to have a field day with this one. This obviously could have been avoided, I will add more information as it becomes available.
http://www.kxly.com/news/north-idaho-news/shooting-prompts-hayden-walmart-evacuation/30458938
One of my "friends" on the facebook has already made hey of this and posted, "A good guy with a gun....oh, wait."
He is heavily entrenched in academia.
Moose-Knuckle
12-31-14, 05:03
This epitomizes this old adage; "life is tough, but it's tougher when your stupid".
Thugs like Brown take 10+ rounds to bring down and this mom gets killed with one round.
Being killed and being stopped are two different things.
Or in a concealed pocket inside the purse. Some kind of retention method would be a minimum for me to put a gun off my person.
Thugs like Brown take 10+ rounds to bring down and this mom gets killed with one round.
Adrenaline is a very powerful thing. Almost turns you into superman in the right conditions.
If you are not going to have it on you, and a round chambered, at a minimum you'd better have a good safety. I'd be interested in what kind of handgun it was.
Report on NBC this morning says the handgun was in a purse designed to carry a handgun. She received the purse for Christmas. She appears to not be your stereotypical Walmart shopper. She was a chemical engineer employed at the Idaho National Laboratory. I am also curious to what kind of handgun a 2 yr old can actually fire. My guess is small semi auto.
If you're carrying a "loose" gun, you really need something along these lines...
This snaps on good enough that a toddler can't take it off...
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/l_100007085_2.jpg
Flankenstein
12-31-14, 13:46
This epitomizes this old adage; "life is tough, but it's tougher when your stupid".
Lol.
*when you're stupid...
Report on NBC this morning says the handgun was in a purse designed to carry a handgun. She received the purse for Christmas. She appears to not be your stereotypical Walmart shopper. She was a chemical engineer employed at the Idaho National Laboratory. I am also curious to what kind of handgun a 2 yr old can actually fire. My guess is small semi auto.
She still walked away from it and left it accessible to her kid. This is why I hate purse carry, even if it's a special purse. People like to criticize certain paddle holsters because they can be ripped away from you, how about if I leave my paddle holster in the shopping cart while I grab crap off the shelf.
Carrying a weapon isn't convenient. Ideally I'd hang my handgun from a lanyard around my neck like a Flava Flav clock. But that wouldn't be very responsible even if it still is probably better than leaving it in a purse which you walk away from while you shop.
How many of us would briefcase carry and then put the briefcase down in public and walk away from it temporarily? How many of us would leave it unattended with young children?
Ideally I'd hang my handgun from a lanyard around my neck like a Flava Flav clock.
Yeah Boyeeeeeeeee!
Moose-Knuckle
12-31-14, 15:27
Lol.
*when you're stupid...
Well I guess I should have copied and pasted . . .
If you're carrying a "loose" gun, you really need something along these lines...
This snaps on good enough that a toddler can't take it off...
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/l_100007085_2.jpg
I've got one of these...concur...never thought of using it in a purse configuration...(edit) FOR MY WIFE that is :)
Flankenstein
12-31-14, 16:11
Well I guess I should have copied and pasted . . .
I don't understand the implication.
I do understand when to use your and when to use you're.
Or in a concealed pocket inside the purse. Some kind of retention method would be a minimum for me to put a gun off my person.\
The core mistake was leaving a gun in the possession of a two year old. No amount of pockets, retention devices, external safety, 10lb trigger, chamber empty, etc., makes that a sound practice.
black22rifle
12-31-14, 21:11
New reports are saying she had it in a CCW purse not just a regular one.
And of course this made NATIONAL NEWS today.
The police officers who were shot at today in TX and MO, well...that's old news.
And of course this made NATIONAL NEWS today.
The police officers who were shot at today in TX and MO, well...that's old news.
Doesn't support the agenda. Years ago this wouldn't have even made the national news. On the subject of purse carry. I agree that it's a poor choice.
Moose-Knuckle
01-01-15, 04:10
I don't understand the implication.
I do understand when to use your and when to use you're.
Oh I was just alluding to my grammatical error. I was quoting John Wayne . . .
The amount of time it would take for a two year old to find and extract a firearm from a typical concealed carry purse suggests a long period of inattention. So sad that this woman paid for her mistake with her life and her family will be paying for the rest of their lives too. Depressing and so easily prevented...
I just saw this on the news. So sad and tragic and I feel for the family. I hope this can be a teaching point on why purse carry is not the best option.
and yet with something like 6 kids ? or is it more dying from texting and driving a day the libtards will say here you go your iphone 6 and keys to the BMW have fun and not think one bit about it
yet will bash guns cause they kill people so sick of the idiocy and the left anymore and there STUPID thinking
Heavy Metal
01-01-15, 13:32
One of my "friends" on the facebook has already made hey of this and posted, "A good guy with a gun....oh, wait."
He is heavily entrenched in academia.
He wouldn't be my friend anymore. He would have no doubt we were no longer friends.
Heavy Metal
01-01-15, 13:34
I bet she was carrying a striker-fired pistol condition one with no holster in her purse. A toddler didn't pull the trigger on a J-Frame.
Gun was a 9mm Smith & Wesson M&P Shield.
Flankenstein
01-01-15, 13:59
He wouldn't be my friend anymore. He would have no doubt we were no longer friends.
+1 Exactly.
Gun was a 9mm Smith & Wesson M&P Shield.
Whoa.. Not what I expected.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gun was a 9mm Smith & Wesson M&P Shield.
And if she kept it under her personal control she'd still be alive. There were times in my life where I was naively complacent and I'm glad I never paid a huge price, but even at my worst I'd never leave a loaded gun unattended anywhere. Amazing what educated people sometimes do without contemplating what they are actually doing.
But so many people buy a gun and for them it's just another iphone.
Whoa.. Not what I expected.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Just what I expected. Small, semi-auto, and easy trigger pull. Bummer.
Just what I expected. Small, semi-auto, and easy trigger pull. Bummer.
Make, model, caliber, firing mechanism, trigger weight are all totally irrelevant to the problem. You'd be very surprised at what ingenuity toddlers can come up with when they are fascinated with the nifty thingie mommy left me to play with. Given enough time they will push, pull, lean into, leverage anything in their path. The fatal flaw here was the choice to carry a gun in a purse and then leave the purse accessible to an unsupervised child. She could have hade a G18 with a 30 re may and 2 oz trigger and she'd still be alive had she not left the gun with her 2 year old. It's a very sad event that could have been easily avoided with some though given to the problem; other than wanting to be more comfortable. Sorry, but this is a fatal brain fart.
Heavy Metal
01-01-15, 21:38
No, they aren't. All firing a Shield requires is pulling a 6lb trigger.
If the toddler had to work a 12lb trigger on a J-Frame, it would have likely proven more than he could have managed in the timeframe he had to monkey with the purse.
That and the fact the gun was apparently transported condition one in a loose state without any kind of securing holster. On a Glock-Type firearm, the holster is the safety, no holster, no safety.
I have on occasion, pocket carried my G-19 prior to acquiring a 642 when the situation necessitated it(couldn't find my holster). On those occasions, I put it into condition three first.
This was an equipment and training issue, plain and simple.
No, they aren't. All firing a Shield requires is pulling a 6lb trigger.
If the toddler had to work a 12lb trigger on a J-Frame, it would have likely proven more than he could have managed in the timeframe he had to monkey with the purse.
That and the fact the gun was apparently transported condition one in a loose state without any kind of securing holster. On a Glock-Type firearm, the holster is the safety, no holster, no safety.
I have on occasion, pocket carried my G-19 prior to acquiring a 642 when the situation necessitated it(couldn't find my holster). On those occasions, I put it into condition three first.
This was an equipment and training issue, plain and simple.
I understand the point you are making, but really this isn't about gun choice. Just because Gun A is less likely to be successfully fired than Gun B is irrelevant. The kid could have pushed it against a corner of the shopping cart and tagged somebody at the end of the aisle.
You want to hear a scary one? When my brother was 6 years old he got into the bottom drawer of my dads gun cabinet (this was before there was such a thing as safes), pulled out a S&W revolver and managed to remove the trigger. Thankfully it wasn't loaded. He then claimed I ate the trigger and I was rushed to the emergency room for x-rays and such and of course it wasn't there.
To this day nobody knows how he managed to remove the trigger or where it ended up but the implications of the entire situation were a big wake up call for my father who "thought" he had things secured.
Just as my father failed to make sure we couldn't access his firearms, the entire blame of this incident is a mother who was careless enough to leave a firearm accessible to anyone. If you are going to purse carry, you simply aren't allowed to put it down and that makes it far less convenient than carrying on your person.
But people are lazy and think "oh a purse for my gun" and some have to find out the hard way why it's a terrible idea. Usually their purse simply gets stolen and they have now armed a purse snatcher.
CleverNickname
01-02-15, 11:02
I feel really sorry for the toddler, who (besides the fact he'll grow up without his mother) will find out when he's older that he was the one who pulled the trigger. It still won't be his fault, but man that would be difficult to deal with.
No, they aren't. All firing a Shield requires is pulling a 6lb trigger.
If the toddler had to work a 12lb trigger on a J-Frame, it would have likely proven more than he could have managed in the timeframe he had to monkey with the purse.
That and the fact the gun was apparently transported condition one in a loose state without any kind of securing holster. On a Glock-Type firearm, the holster is the safety, no holster, no safety.
I have on occasion, pocket carried my G-19 prior to acquiring a 642 when the situation necessitated it(couldn't find my holster). On those occasions, I put it into condition three first.
This was an equipment and training issue, plain and simple.
So you don't think that a 20-30# child could put their thumb into the trigger guard of a revolver, lean into it and make it go pop? We have no idea how long the child and gun were left unsupervised while she was doing whatever. Could have been seconds or minutes.
I agree that more appropriate equipment could have helped the situation, but that's a hardware solution to what was a software malfunction. The root cause of this failure was the gun being left unsupervised with a curious toddler. Eliminate that failure mode and all other things are irrelevant.
I feel really sorry for the toddler, who (besides the fact he'll grow up without his mother) will find out when he's older that he was the one who pulled the trigger. It still won't be his fault, but man that would be difficult to deal with.
No matter what is done, that kid has a hard road in front of him.
Apparently she was fairly knowlegeable about firearms, and was trying out her new concealable zippered purse...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/?tid=sm_fb
reading comments makes me realize that sadly most folks are just plain stupid brain washed anti gun idiots who have no clue and no reason to hold people responsible ? and yet none of them would blame horrid bad cell phones for causing kids to die every day
sadly of course the article is so bias in the way it is written to mean that responsible gun owners are bad and guns are bad
so so so so so sick of the anti folks anti guns anti religion etc..... mind your own business and take responsibility for one self and realize that just because they had guns does not make them responsible owners ?
I hope they write a article about how responsible cell phone owners are now killing more people than anything on the road and responsible phone owners are murdering children every day
WickedWillis
01-02-15, 17:54
reading comments makes me realize that sadly most folks are just plain stupid brain washed anti gun idiots who have no clue and no reason to hold people responsible ? and yet none of them would blame horrid bad cell phones for causing kids to die every day
sadly of course the article is so bias in the way it is written to mean that responsible gun owners are bad and guns are bad
so so so so so sick of the anti folks anti guns anti religion etc..... mind your own business and take responsibility for one self and realize that just because they had guns does not make them responsible owners ?
I hope they write a article about how responsible cell phone owners are now killing more people than anything on the road and responsible phone owners are murdering children every day
Incredibly well said Honu.
The amount of time it would take for a two year old to find and extract a firearm from a typical concealed carry purse suggests a long period of inattention. So sad that this woman paid for her mistake with her life and her family will be paying for the rest of their lives too. Depressing and so easily prevented...
You obviously don't have a toddler. Or if you at one point had a two year old, you have since forgotten how adept they are at figuring out their environment.
I've watched my toddler completely take apart my wife's purse, gotten into her wallet and removed all of the money in less then a minute. That's after nicely staking all of the items that got in his way carefully next to him in his seat.
I came on this forum today after reading about this IDIOT woman to restore my faith in good, responsible gun owners and I am happy to see that so far most people aren't defending this ****ing idiot who got herself killed through her own arrogance and neglect.
Bravo to the majority of M4C. Glad to see there is some sanity left in this world.
No, they aren't. All firing a Shield requires is pulling a 6lb trigger.
If the toddler had to work a 12lb trigger on a J-Frame, it would have likely proven more than he could have managed in the timeframe he had to monkey with the purse.
That and the fact the gun was apparently transported condition one in a loose state without any kind of securing holster. On a Glock-Type firearm, the holster is the safety, no holster, no safety.
I have on occasion, pocket carried my G-19 prior to acquiring a 642 when the situation necessitated it(couldn't find my holster). On those occasions, I put it into condition three first.
This was an equipment and training issue, plain and simple.
If my son is physically capable of holding a mechanism, he can figure out how to manipulate it and make it work.
If you were saying: A fully loaded 30.30 lever action rifle with a cross bolt safety and the hammer de cocked. I may agree with your assessment. But anything "him" sized seems to be off limits in regards to me assuming he's "not capable" of manipulating it.
There's no excuse for leaving a loaded gun within reach of a toddler unless you have 100% control over it. I don't care what model it is.
reading comments makes me realize that sadly most folks are just plain stupid brain washed anti gun idiots who have no clue and no reason to hold people responsible ? and yet none of them would blame horrid bad cell phones for causing kids to die every day
sadly of course the article is so bias in the way it is written to mean that responsible gun owners are bad and guns are bad
so so so so so sick of the anti folks anti guns anti religion etc..... mind your own business and take responsibility for one self and realize that just because they had guns does not make them responsible owners ?
I hope they write a article about how responsible cell phone owners are now killing more people than anything on the road and responsible phone owners are murdering children every day
I don't defend STUPID! No matter what flavor it comes in.
You shouldn't either.
not sure what you mean by defending ? :)
not defending it at all saying I am sick of it big time
if you mean the cell phone thing ? tons of sarcasm was intended :) as again cell phones dont kill people !
I don't defend STUPID! No matter what flavor it comes in.
You shouldn't either.
Moose-Knuckle
01-03-15, 05:42
The issue here isn't a striker fired auto with a light trigger in condition 1 vs. a snub nose revolver with a heavy trigger. The issue here is the woman/victim here LEFT HER CCW UNATTENDED IN A PUBLIC PLACE AND ALLOWED HER TODDLER TO HAVE ACCESS TO IT. She paid the price for that with her life, how would she have felt if her baby shot and killed himself inside that store instead of her.
I see people all the time in big box stores leave purses unattended in their shopping carts while they "just go get something for only a minute". I've seen them leave infants like this as well. At a local Wal-Mart there is a guy who actually stalks unaware women in the store for their purses/wallets and he scores when they are not paying attention which is most of the time.
The issue here isn't a striker fired auto with a light trigger in condition 1 vs. a snub nose revolver with a heavy trigger. The issue here is the woman/victim here LEFT HER CCW UNATTENDED IN A PUBLIC PLACE AND ALLOWED HER TODDLER TO HAVE ACCESS TO IT. She paid the price for that with her life, how would she have felt if her baby shot and killed himself inside that store instead of her.
I see people all the time in big box stores leave purses unattended in their shopping carts while they "just go get something for only a minute". I've seen them leave infants like this as well. At a local Wal-Mart there is a guy who actually stalks unaware women in the store for their purses/wallets and he scores when they are not paying attention which is most of the time.
1+. This was a 100% software failure on the woman's end. It's sad and I feel sorry for her family's loss, but she needs to be an example people learn from not make excuses about (no person particular). When we delve into the had she had a 60000# trigger or thumb snap holster or Kydex trigger cover... we are NOT addressing the root cause of the failure. Your CCW must be in your direct control at all times. This is especially important around kids. If it's not in your direct control it needs to be made safe (locked up or unloaded). If you choose off body carry then that purse or brief case or fanny pack damned well better be on your body or in your hand. In the shopping cart with your kid while you're doing something else is not under control by any stretch of the imagination.
EXACTLY !!!!
I see quite a few failures
she left her bag unattended
she left her child unattended and not on her person
she did not have some kinda trigger guard on the gun even though in a concealed carry part of the bag IMHO she should have had some kinda guard
this is personal buy my kids grew up without being allowed to rummage in moms purse etc... just part of learning manners IMHO if they are allowed as they grow up they think its OK behavior and IMHO its not they have toys to play with !
same thing with our phones we had certain games they could use but only when waiting in a doctors office as a example ! the rest of the time they learned its not a toy and its not theres to play with ! now some called me harsh and over protective etc... but I say its purely learning behavior
The issue here isn't a striker fired auto with a light trigger in condition 1 vs. a snub nose revolver with a heavy trigger. The issue here is the woman/victim here LEFT HER CCW UNATTENDED IN A PUBLIC PLACE AND ALLOWED HER TODDLER TO HAVE ACCESS TO IT. She paid the price for that with her life, how would she have felt if her baby shot and killed himself inside that store instead of her.
I see people all the time in big box stores leave purses unattended in their shopping carts while they "just go get something for only a minute". I've seen them leave infants like this as well. At a local Wal-Mart there is a guy who actually stalks unaware women in the store for their purses/wallets and he scores when they are not paying attention which is most of the time.
Heavy Metal
01-03-15, 14:22
Yes, of course she should have maintained control of her weapon at all times, nobody is saying she shouldn't have done so. But carrying a striker-fired no-safety pistol in a loose pocket in a purse is practically begging for bad things to happen.
Yes, of course she should have maintained control of her weapon at all times, nobody is saying she shouldn't have done so. But carrying a striker-fired no-safety pistol in a loose pocket in a purse is practically begging for bad things to happen.
Certainly additional factors seem to have compounded the problem.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.