AK47SU/M92/"Krinkov" whatever as general purpose rifle?

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Hey guys,

I am sure I have missed it, but what about one of the little M92s with an arm brace as an all around self defense/survival rifle? I was thinking one with a few 20 round mags would be pretty handy from 0-200 yards. Are they reliable? Sturdy?

I would think the benefits would be....

1. Reliability (presumed).
2. Reasonable weight. Around 6-7 lbs.
3. Firepower. 20-30 rounds of 7.62x 39 on tap has to be pretty useful.
4. Very compact.


I was thinking one of these would be one hell of a "scout" rifle although I think I can hear Cooper's ghost scratching on my window as I type this.

[Turnkey11]

I'd have a hard time choosing an AK pattern anything over an AR patterned gun firing a similar cartridge with similar ballistics. I'm too far invested in ARs as it is to start buying tuna cans of ammo and com bloc mags that I got rid of 3 years ago when I got away from AK patterned guns. AR pistol in 300 blk is ergonomically efficient, optic ready, easy to suppress, wider range of ammunition, and uses a common, domestically produced magazine and numerous internal parts.

[MorphCross]

Taken what is given here, the compact AKs wih the arm brace make great pistols/firearms as that is how the would be sold with the arm brace. Nice part is that as long as the states you are traveling to have reciprocity for your ccl/cwp you would be able to conceal the loaded pistol within your vehicle.

Also due to the 2010 laws allowing the carrying of firearms in national parks having a compact AK with a sidefolding brace would give you powerful concealable pistol option should you have an unforeseen encounter with some dangerous wildlife. While an ounce of prevention would be worth a pound of cure for most encounters as I said, should the unforeseen happen it's good to have something effective to defend yourself with.

So as a powerful truck gun or backpacking weapon, a sidefolding AK pistol with a brace can be a great tool.

[1911-A1]

I'd look at a Bulgarian krink SBR with a triangle side folder. It gets REALLY tiny and light. Mine is really accurate in 5.45, and a lot more pleasant to shoot than a 7.62. You may be looking to avoid NFA hassles, though.

[plouffedaddy]

It's a fantastic choice. '47 rounds only lose about 200-300 FPS out of the M92 vs a 16'' barrel so you're not giving up much in terms of ballistics and they're every bit as reliable as an OPAP/NPAP variant. The big sacrifice is the sighting system but that's nothing an optic can't solve.

[Delta-3]

I had my M92 built in 2006. I used a side folder instead of the under folding stock. Plouffedaddy is correct on the velocity. With "regular" steel cased ammo over a chronograph, I'm getting 2150 + MV out of it's 10" barrel. Getting decent hits on a 8" gong @ 200yds is fairly easy with the stock sights. Adding an optic of some kind has improved hits at that distance & beyond. As far as reliability, well it's an AK. Mine has had many thousands of rounds through it over the course of 9 years & I've never had an issue.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Delta-3/M92-2.jpg

[english kanigit]

Actual, functional stocks are best and leave no room for the F-troop to yank the carpet out from under you in a legal sense with regards to your "pistol" brace.... :suicide2:

These guys have the right idea. My 8.25" barrel is giving an average of 1950fps for both Wolf and Tula. I can and have used this gun to 300 and 400 yards in local 3-gun matches.


As much as I love my SBR ARs they don't give me the warm and fuzzies about dealing with car bodies and they can't do this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56338680/LF.net/Photo%20Dec%2002%2C%2021%2057%2037.jpg

Ek

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Agreed, the folder is obviously the best setup. I sort of like the idea of keeping it bone stock. Zero it and forget. It waits patiently for trouble and you a ready with the loudest pistol ever.

[eodinert]

As for shooting in any kind of low light, your night vision will be gone on the first shot, and everyone...everyone will know where you are. The muzzle blast is obnoxious, and would be disorienting in any kind of a confined space.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/eodinert/guns/Krink/IMAG0094.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/eodinert/guns/flash%20hiders/ARM1yugoammo2.jpg

I might argue that there are better tools for the job.

[jamesavery22]

If you're running a 8.21" barrel then using a flash hider designed for a 16" barrel isn't the best choice if you want flash reduction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8vEdTcB8FY#t=2m31s

Have yet to see anything hide flash better than the bulgy 4 piece. Negative it has that when enough fresh air gets into it's "chamber" you'll get a big fireball like above. Much like a FRP of a suppressor. Air it out enough and you get more pop/flash. It happens almost randomly.
Plus it adds weight and length. One of the big reason I'm a fan of 10.5" barrel lengths for a min with x39.

[Uprange41]

As much as I love Krinks, I would be tempted to stick to a full-sized rifle for "general purpose". You don't add all that much weight, but 7.62x39 does do a little better out of a 16" barrel.

An AK is my personal GP rifle, and I've taken as much effort as possible to shave weight. Unloaded, without the optic or light, I am coming in at 6 pounds 5 ounces... Venom FSB/GB combo does a lot towards making the rifle actually handle well, and if you stick with the K-Var handguards and stock, you can really keep the weight down. Obviously it just can't compete in storage size and cool factor, though.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

The 4 piece job really soaks up the flash. It is impressive. I think the beauty of the 10 inch barrel is that it is so handy. It can be run like a Colt Commando or MP5 in doors and still hit pretty hard a football field or two away.

[eodinert]

If you're running a 8.21" barrel then using a flash hider designed for a 16" barrel isn't the best choice if you want flash reduction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8vEdTcB8FY#t=2m31s

Have yet to see anything hide flash better than the bulgy 4 piece.

That picture of the flash is a part of a series I did to evaluate flash on the Krink. The gridded background is to help quantify the muzzle flash. Pictures were taken with the shutter open, all the light in the picture is provided by the muzzle flash (except for a very small amount of ambient light). I took about ten photos of each ammo type with each muzzle attachment.

A manufacturer provided me with free flash hiders to test, but the results weren't favorable. At all... and I promised I would not disclose the information. I don't know if they made any revisions after my test.

While I didn't have a Bulgy four piece to test, the most effective unit I tested was the Russian style krink brake that came with my Bulgarian parts kit. I was surprised, to say the least.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/eodinert/guns/flash%20hiders/muzzleattachments3-1.jpg

This is what the factory Krink brake did:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/eodinert/guns/flash%20hiders/factoryconicalyugoammo1.jpg

I also did the naked muzzle.


I'd not be too excited about leaving an NFA weapon in a car, and I'd be even less excited about having a 'pistol' (rifle with no proper butt stock)... I, too, think a title I rifle would be better for car duty.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I dunnnooo, those pistol braces are mighty stabilizing for shorter fellows like myself.

[HighSpeedDreams]

Booster flame. +1 on not making an NFA item a truck gun.

30939

[MegademiC]

Thought about this myself. Pistol brace folding ak is the most versatile gun for a car here in OH. You can't have loaded rifle mags in the car if there's a rifle. Pistols is okay though, but only 1iirc.

It's smaller than an ar, and can fire with the stock folded.

[crazymoose]

I like them for that role. Have an M85 pistol and Bulgarian krink type pistol. Both shoot well with the brace. I opted to keep the longer barrel under the fake FH on the Bulgarian gun (compared to the 8.5" on the mil-spec models), and I agree that the flash and noise are pretty substantial. Haven't put a ton of rounds through either, but they've been reliable and very shootable.

Only downside beyond the normal ergonomic baggage associated with AK's, and the flash/concussion, is the weight issue. I don't have numbers handy to compare, but the weight of AK's does not seem to scale down in SBR/pistol form nearly as much as it does in an AR, particularly if you have a milled receiver. You've still got a heavy receiver and bolt group, so chopping a few inches of barrel off of an AK doesn't seem to save as much weight as a short AR with its aluminum receiver and lighter BCG. My milled krink feels heavier than most of my full sized ARs.

[7.62WildBill]

Another recommendation for the M92 here. It's very handy and reasonably accurate out to 200. I would also go NFA. I'm not am fan of keeping a gun in the truck, I know too many people who had them stolen. If I was to keep a truck gun, I would be certain that it is hard mounted to the vehicle in some fashion that allowed quick access for me only.

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s488/wildwoodbill000/20141213_141537_zpsd493d878.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/wildwoodbill000/media/20141213_141537_zpsd493d878.jpg.html)

[english kanigit]

'Boosters' are exactly that and not to be confused with flash hiders. They help a bunch with concussion though.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56338680/LF.net/Under%20Volvo%20Left%20Bump.jpg


They may not be as light as an AR but they can be much more compact. With a truly short gun that weight has much less leverage over the shooter, IMHO.


Ek

[Ron3]

I tried the idea with a Yugo M92.

Lots of blast. Controls kinda stink because it's still an AK. Sights are terrible. The rear is nearly useless. So I just used the front circle and "generally" had the rear in my vision somewhere. Good enough for fast, upper abdomen hits inside 25M but thats it. It has to get a red dot.

Most Romanian and Yugo (Serbian) AK's have one or more canted assemblies. It rare cases does it affect function but otherwise almost none of them are straight.

The gun is much handier with 20 round mags. They are of course, rugged and reliable. Recoil is no big deal. They don't feel that light because there is still a lot of steel there.

Also consider the effect of the short barrel. You can expect 1850-2050 fps depending on actual barrel length and ammo. Anything fired will penetrate a lot. If you want barrier penetration this is your boy! Hornady makes the SST bullet in 7.62x39. I recall some tests from pistols (amatuer) with this load and some expanded and some did not. But they penetrated a lot either way.

Results in the other available calibers may be different.

[LRRPF52]

In talking with the Russians about this, their Special troops pretty much avoid the AKSU. They have no clue what you're saying if you say "Krinkov".

In testing with them for high volume shooting, the AKSU-74's burned up pretty fast, so they just stuck with AKS-74's and now AK-100 series since the guns last longer for live fire training. Every AKSU I've seen run in high volume becomes a malf-o-matic, or a key-holer, or both, in 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 guns.

The reliability record has never been what AK's are trumped up to be in my experience, and that goes for the standard-length guns as well. I started out with AK's thinking they would live up to everything I had been told, but as the spendex and high volume sessions started stacking up, it moved to the bottom of reliability performance compared to almost every other assault rifle I have used in the world.

For close-in guns, I found that the Russians really like the VAL, which is a 9x39 suppressed system. Their "Counter-Terrorist" units use them a lot, but they can also be found in Battalion and Regimental-level Recon Sections.

The best selling feature of a short AK here in the US is that if someone does snag your truck gun, you aren't out what a quality US-made gun costs, maybe a few hundred bucks. I prefer them canned in that configuration. This is a billet Bulgarian receiver custom build a guy did with some of the coalition partners I work with.

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2a449b44-c547-4720-879a-acb45f4f0aa1_zpsde3b134e.jpg

[mrvip27]

In talking with the Russians about this, their Special troops pretty much avoid the AKSU. They have no clue what you're saying if you say "Krinkov".

In testing with them for high volume shooting, the AKSU-74's burned up pretty fast, so they just stuck with AKS-74's and now AK-100 series since the guns last longer for live fire training. Every AKSU I've seen run in high volume becomes a malf-o-matic, or a key-holer, or both, in 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 guns.

The reliability record has never been what AK's are trumped up to be in my experience, and that goes for the standard-length guns as well. I started out with AK's thinking they would live up to everything I had been told, but as the spendex and high volume sessions started stacking up, it moved to the bottom of reliability performance compared to almost every other assault rifle I have used in the world.

For close-in guns, I found that the Russians really like the VAL, which is a 9x39 suppressed system. Their "Counter-Terrorist" units use them a lot, but they can also be found in Battalion and Regimental-level Recon Sections.

The best selling feature of a short AK here in the US is that if someone does snag your truck gun, you aren't out what a quality US-made gun costs, maybe a few hundred bucks. I prefer them canned in that configuration. This is a billet Bulgarian receiver custom build a guy did with some of the coalition partners I work with.

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2a449b44-c547-4720-879a-acb45f4f0aa1_zpsde3b134e.jpg

Very interesting..