View Full Version : They didn't waste any time!
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/01/dean-weingarten/new-ruling-cracks-down-on-machine-shops-expands-atf-power/
Leaveammoforme
01-06-15, 18:18
The first ATF ruling of 2015 is a vast expansion of its already considerable power. It maintains that an entity that rents or leases equipment or tools on its premises to individuals working on their own guns must be licensed as a gun manufacturer and keep gun manufacturing records
Here is a snip from OPs link. (Add snips OP, it's annoying having to click a link to find out if you even want to read it!)
Basically, ATF is expanding on build party issues.
RocketScott
01-06-15, 23:23
Got an email from Ares today that was somewhat funny. They have a parody letter to the ATF.
paperchasin
01-06-15, 23:26
Lame!
Got an email from Ares today that was somewhat funny. They have a parody letter to the ATF.
I'm glad that they parody what they are forcing ATF to do...they keep flipping the bird at the ATF while pushing the limits, while good marketing for them, does not appear a good strategy for the rest of us.
I'm glad that they parody what they are forcing ATF to do...they keep flipping the bird at the ATF while pushing the limits, while good marketing for them, does not appear a good strategy for the rest of us.
Atleast somebody is fighting the fight tho
I'm glad that they parody what they are forcing ATF to do...they keep flipping the bird at the ATF while pushing the limits, while good marketing for them, does not appear a good strategy for the rest of us.
Your right. Tucking our tails between our legs and taking it in the ass with a strap on in the hopes that it will keep them from taking everything is a much better idea!
Sent from my SM-G900T using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
Not at all....I just don't see how this is the way to fight.
I'm glad that they parody what they are forcing ATF to do...they keep flipping the bird at the ATF while pushing the limits, while good marketing for them, does not appear a good strategy for the rest of us.
I think exactly the opposite. The further down the manufacturing chain the ATF cracks down, they rapidly start reaching a point of looking ridiculous to even those who aren't knowledgable about firearms. It's the joke about a big block of aluminum being a "0% lower." The logical end point of defining down a firearm and what constitutes manufacturing/transfer/etc is the ATF telling you it's illegal to transfer a block of aluminum without a background check.
Or how about some of the minimal machining bolt together designs that can be hacking out in a garage with a drill and angle grinder? Are they gonna force Lowes and Home Depot to start doing background checks on bolts and nuts? Are you an illegal manufacturer if you loan you neighbor a drill and he builds a lower? In essence that's what they're saying here....
So much infringement it's really beyond comprehension at this point.
At any rate all their really fostering is mass noncompliance really. Anyone care to wager how many people registered their "assault rifles" in NY following passage of the SAFE act? They won't release official numbers but rumor has it at less than 3% which is probably mostly LE anyway.
Doc Safari
01-07-15, 14:10
I think exactly the opposite. The further down the manufacturing chain the ATF cracks down, they rapidly start reaching a point of looking ridiculous to even those who aren't knowledgable about firearms. It's the joke about a big block of aluminum being a "0% lower." The logical end point of defining down a firearm and what constitutes manufacturing/transfer/etc is the ATF telling you it's illegal to transfer a block of aluminum without a background check.
Or how about some of the minimal machining bolt together designs that can be hacking out in a garage with a drill and angle grinder? Are they gonna force Lowes and Home Depot to start doing background checks on bolts and nuts? Are you an illegal manufacturer if you loan you neighbor a drill and he builds a lower? In essence that's what they're saying here....
This is not paranoia. Years ago I had many more contacts in the gun business than I do now and I talked with more than one FFL who expressed a "suspicion" (let's call it) that ATF's ultimate goal was to require a manufacturer license to do even simple things like install a new stock and whatnot. I tend to discount speculation but when more than one unrelated source voices the same concern I tend to think "where there's smoke there's fire."
Although nothing came of it at the time, your post reminded me that this is yet another bugbear hiding under the bed.
This is not paranoia. Years ago I had many more contacts in the gun business than I do now and I talked with more than one FFL who expressed a "suspicion" (let's call it) that ATF's ultimate goal was to require a manufacturer license to do even simple things like install a new stock and whatnot. I tend to discount speculation but when more than one unrelated source voices the same concern I tend to think "where there's smoke there's fire."
Although nothing came of it at the time, your post reminded me that this is yet another bugbear hiding under the bed.
ATF is really fighting a losing battle. You can't stop the signal as they say. A minimill big enough to do an AR lower is down to the $600 range and getting lower every day. I can remember just a few years ago when they were $1500+. Or how about this, $230 plus a dremel and you've got a mill. Is it as good as a HAAS or a Bridgeport? Not by a long shot but it's probably got tight enough tolerances to machine a lower even if it would take a long time.
http://www.vanda-layindustries.com/html/acra_mill_plus.html
Their worst nightmare is a future where laser sintered metal 3D printing is inexpensive enough for home use. Actual durable metal parts turned out on a home printer.
Or a 3D printer and a lower file....
I suspect this is part of the "use whatever means legal without Congress's approval" agenda...
Any recommend links discussing laser sintered metal? Sounds intriguing.
Doc Safari
01-07-15, 15:14
ATF is really fighting a losing battle. You can't stop the signal as they say. A minimill big enough to do an AR lower is down to the $600 range and getting lower every day. I can remember just a few years ago when they were $1500+. Or how about this, $230 plus a dremel and you've got a mill. Is it as good as a HAAS or a Bridgeport? Not by a long shot but it's probably got tight enough tolerances to machine a lower even if it would take a long time.
http://www.vanda-layindustries.com/html/acra_mill_plus.html
Their worst nightmare is a future where laser sintered metal 3D printing is inexpensive enough for home use. Actual durable metal parts turned out on a home printer.
The ATF will undoubtedly seek to restrict 3D printers or some such nonsense. I don't think it will happen in the next ten years, but I'm afraid the "homemade firearm" trend will make them push for registration with a vengeance. "No firearm shall be manufactured even by a private individual without a serial number and a background check" will be their mantra. Just wait until there's a school shooting with a gun made from an 80% lower and the salad days will be over.
The ATF will undoubtedly seek to restrict 3D printers or some such nonsense. I don't think it will happen in the next ten years, but I'm afraid the "homemade firearm" trend will make them push for registration with a vengeance. "No firearm shall be manufactured even by a private individual without a serial number and a background check" will be their mantra. Just wait until there's a school shooting with a gun made from an 80% lower and the salad days will be over.
Unfortunately, I think you are right.
Eventually, a lengthy and expensive fight in the courts might change this, but not until numerous lives, marriages and finances are ruined. The ATF of course, will have no such problems, as their legal bills are paid in full by the rest of us peasants.
What really needs to happen is the gop grow a set of balls and stomp on the head of the atf and epa. Cut their budgets to the price of a snickers bar. These guberment bureaucracies are so out of control its not funny. How they can just send down "rules" that become law without a vote on it from congress and a signature from potus is beyond me.
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