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View Full Version : My "Guns Drawn" Police Encounter...



SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 02:25
So from my perspective here is what happened today.

I had a couple of shipments I had to drop off at the UPS store, it's only a couple blocks away and that saves me from spending an extra $12 for a pick up fee. I have a gun on my hip (because I always have a gun on my hip) and my concealment garment (reporters vest) was on the front seat and I'm loading boxes into the back seat. My vehicle is parked in my front yard.

Because I have OCD and middle age short term memory I confirm that I locked the front door before leaving, peek in my front window and tell my dogs to "knock it off and behave while I'm gone." I climb in my front seat and begin to back up when a black SUV pulls into my yard behind me blocking me in.

Thankfully they had blue lights running in the dash and I'm pretty astute at identifying legitimate law enforcement uniforms vs. the stuff that can be put together with things from the army / navy store.

As the police were coming down there street here is what they observed. A middle aged white male with a holstered firearm on his hip wearing cargo shorts and a polo shirt loading boxes into a vehicle and apparently trying the front door and then peering into the front window of a residence and then quickly climbing into his vehicle and attempting to leave, possibly because he identified an unmarked police vehicle coming down the street.

Isn't perspective a wonderful thing.

So at a time when assholes are actively targeting police officers I now have a pair of them wishing to know what exactly is going on. Drivers side officer is the one who will be asking the question, passenger side officer is "gun drawn" and in a low ready behind the door. Drivers side officer might have drawn but his right hand is behind the door.

I exit my vehicle with my hands at shoulder level and palms visible and slowly walk about half way to them and stop. I can now be completely seen and heard but I haven't moved too close to make them feel uncomfortable. First question is something along the lines of "Hey buddy, why do you have a gun?"

I respond by asking the officer if it is ok for me to grab my ID from my back pocket. I then verify with the passenger side officer who has a weapon at low ready that it's oke with him as well if I obtain my ID from my back pocket. He nods and I accept that as confirmation that we all understand I am going to move my hand towards my back pocket even though there is a handgun on my right hip.

I calmly pull my wallet, pull my DL and my CWP and calmly walk towards the driver side officer and hand him both IDs. Having seen my valid concealed weapon permit he comments that my firearm should be concealed. I calmly reply that I'm on private property so I'm legal and I also mention that my reporters vest is on the front seat and I confirm that I understand when I leave my property the weapon is to be concealed. I mention that I simply wasn't wearing the vest because I was loading boxes.

At this point the officers have confirmed I'm the homeowner and when they asked why I was staring in the window my answer that I was telling my dogs to behave was accepted as satisfactory.

So then they ask why I'm carrying a gun, to which I reply I always carry a gun and I hand them one of my business cards that identifies me as a law enforcement supplier and firearm dealer. The business card seems to put them more at ease than my conceal weapons permit.

Everyone is now on the same page more or less and they have returned to a Defcon 5 posture. They then explained what "they saw" and why they stopped me, I replied that I completely understand and thanked them because in essence they were making sure nobody was robbing my house and I'm actually rather grateful for that kind of proactive policing. Drivers side officer made a comment along the lines of "I respect the second amendment and all but I had to make sure this wasn't criminal activity." Again, I repeated that I completely understand and I'm not upset at all.

At this point, now that everyone is calm, I took the time to directly thank the passenger side officer for holding a low ready and not drawing a direct line on me. I always get a tad uneasy when I get straight lined by LEOs even if their finger isn't on the trigger. I'm appreciative when they show some consideration and just low ready in order to prepare to defend themselves. As they were saying their "have a nice days" I told the drivers side officer that I'd walk up and shake his hand but I know how most officers feel about that sort of thing when dealing with visibly armed individuals so I'll just wish him a "nice day" as well. Thankfully he got it and smiled.

From start to finish the entire thing lasted maybe three minutes.

Now if I was making a youtube video I'm sure I could have started complaining about getting "jumped by the man on my own front yard where I'm completely legal for Gods sakes and even have a carry permit for that matter." I could have gone on a rant about minding my own damn business when the "po po" pull up and draw weapons and start something that didn't need to happen in the first place.

Can't you all see I done been disrespected at my own damn home where I pay the bills including the property taxes that pay their salaries and what do I get? Undercover cops running around looking for a white man to mess with.

Of course that scenario might have lasted longer than three minutes and might have colored their view about making sure my neighborhood is safe.

I think I'll grab some Dunkin Donuts $10 gift cards to keep in my wallet. The fact that the passenger side officer didn't muzzle sweep me at all really deserves a scooby snack.

Cincinnatus
01-07-15, 03:20
It sounds like a reasonable and perfectly human and common sense reaction to the situation on both sides. I amm glad things turned out well.
Now, if only that Harvard professor who was locked out, leading to Obama's beer summit had acted so reasonably...

On another note, i am glad the passenger side officer kept his head enough to have courtesy and muzzle awareness; i imagine that he had many causes to be tense before he knew what was up.

Pilot1
01-07-15, 04:39
I think you handled it very well. They were doing their job, and seemed to treat you well, and not "harass", or give negative commentary on citizens legally carrying guns. OC is legal where I live, but that is where issues begin so I CC all the time, even on my own property. I just don't want any attention. Nice job.

Straight Shooter
01-07-15, 05:38
I think as gun owners, we MUST at all times be ready for something like this, a complete misunderstanding and law enforcement only doing their job. What they did with you SteyrAUG was as you said, totally understandable. The way you dealt with this was great, and great on the law's part too. You verified..it ended.
If only EVERY time it worked like this.

Moose-Knuckle
01-07-15, 06:04
Wait just a minute, a pair of cargo shorts and a polo in January?!

Oh that's right you live in FL, lol here today's low is in the teens and the wind-chill is single digits.

As for your encounter, my hat is off to you and the officers. Everyone acted like a professional and no one had their head up their arse. Now if the open carry idiots could take a page from your playbook.

Eurodriver
01-07-15, 06:52
That is awesome police work Steyr, and you're absolutely right. I would gladly "put up with" (for lack of a better term) LE showing up when I am peaking in the windows to my own house because one day it may not be me.


Wait just a minute, a pair of cargo shorts and a polo in January?!


Dude, it's been so ridiculously hot here I'm starting to lose my mind. The low temperature, the *low* temperature last night was 65 degrees.

WillBrink
01-07-15, 07:01
Common sense prevailed between honest law abiding person using his brain and LEOs using there's. No YT vid required :cool:

markm
01-07-15, 08:02
I'd call Al Sharpton.

FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-15, 08:10
And no one is going to make fun of him for the 'reporters vest'? No 'Veronica Mars' or "I've got a gun/shoot me first" vests jokes?

We are all glad you didn't get shot, but you should take some shots because of the vest. ;)

Whiskey_Bravo
01-07-15, 08:18
Is that you?

30917

markm
01-07-15, 08:42
We are all glad you didn't get shot, but you should take some shots because of the vest. ;)

I need to get my vest back out. I embrace anything that draws the ire of the tactical community.

markm
01-07-15, 08:43
Is that you?

30917

That's definitely him. :cool:

moonshot
01-07-15, 08:47
Great post. There is a lot we can all learn from this. I do have one observation to make and one question to ask...

1) In addition to asking the driver's side officer if you could reach for your ID (BEFORE reaching for it), you also asked the passenger side officer the same question, and waited until he responded that you could. Communication and demeanor are critical in a situation such as this in order to prevent a tragedy. You handled both remarkedly well. We can all learn from this.

2) I am not sure how I feel about the officer asking why you carry a gun, or how I would respond to a question like that. Once it has been established that you are legal to carry, it now becomes none of their business why you carry. I'm sure I could come up with a cute "bumper sticker' phrase, but that just makes me sound like an smartass. Saying "none of your damn business" is also not the correct response. The reasons I carry are many and varied, and would take some time to delve into, and again, it's really none of their business.

How should someone who does not have a business or a job that would "justify" carrying a gun respond?

markm
01-07-15, 08:49
How should someone who does not have a business or a job that would "rationalize" carrying a gun respond?

"personal protection"

moonshot
01-07-15, 09:17
"personal protection"

Good answer. I feel like an idiot.

Ick
01-07-15, 10:14
OP: well done. Get yourself a scooby snack too.

jerrysimons
01-07-15, 10:17
Good story, glad everyone was so cool.
I am annoyed with a perspective that must have justification for carrying a gun but irrespective of the personal views of officers and perhaps those who wish they were the only people armed in the streets, it is also just good police work to ask. They don't care if they piss somebody off a little, what if it the person stupidly conveys criminal intent in their response?
"What's the gun for?", "Oh, my b**** ex got something comin"
It has happened before.

J-Dub
01-07-15, 11:41
Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle!!! You had an encounter with da' polease and lived to tell about....almost unbelievable.

Its down right amazing what happens when one uses common sense....and that goes for both parties. I thank you for not going all "you oppressing my rights", and I'd also thank those Officers for being proactive (property crime is my biggest pet peeve) and polite.

skydivr
01-07-15, 12:23
I liked your lesson to confirm with the 2nd Officer your agreement with the first before you reached for your ID...

These guys want to go home in one piece too. Keeping calm, compliant and clear about your intent made this into a non-issue. They probably wish they had more stops with people like you.

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 12:35
It sounds like a reasonable and perfectly human and common sense reaction to the situation on both sides. I amm glad things turned out well.
Now, if only that Harvard professor who was locked out, leading to Obama's beer summit had acted so reasonably...

On another note, i am glad the passenger side officer kept his head enough to have courtesy and muzzle awareness; i imagine that he had many causes to be tense before he knew what was up.


I'm just glad I didn't have a MP5 slung on my back because it wouldn't be the first time.

:sarcastic:

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 12:44
And no one is going to make fun of him for the 'reporters vest'? No 'Veronica Mars' or "I've got a gun/shoot me first" vests jokes?

We are all glad you didn't get shot, but you should take some shots because of the vest. ;)


Really there is no such thing as concealment in south florida.

Choices are:

1. Fanny pack which may as well say "gun" on it.
2. Reporters vest or biker vest which may as well say "gun inside" on it.
3. A guy wearing a t shirt and an unbuttoned collar shirt which might as well say "gun inside."

Of course you can use a supertuck setup. And that is where they will find the gun on your dead body as you attempted to untuck and draw and play catch up during a "happening now" threat.


Having experimented with all of the above and the realization that it is painfully easy to pick out everyone carrying in a tropical environment, my best results for smooth and easy draw was OTW concealed by a reporter vest.

As a bonus now that I'm middle aged I have lots of pockets for reading glasses, prescription medicines and don't have to worry about sitting on my cell phone. The vest rocks.

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 12:45
Is that you?

30917

Minus the plaid shirt and thankfully a few pounds lighter.

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 12:51
Great post. There is a lot we can all learn from this. I do have one observation to make and one question to ask...

1) In addition to asking the driver's side officer if you could reach for your ID (BEFORE reaching for it), you also asked the passenger side officer the same question, and waited until he responded that you could. Communication and demeanor are critical in a situation such as this in order to prevent a tragedy. You handled both remarkedly well. We can all learn from this.

2) I am not sure how I feel about the officer asking why you carry a gun, or how I would respond to a question like that. Once it has been established that you are legal to carry, it now becomes none of their business why you carry. I'm sure I could come up with a cute "bumper sticker' phrase, but that just makes me sound like an smartass. Saying "none of your damn business" is also not the correct response. The reasons I carry are many and varied, and would take some time to delve into, and again, it's really none of their business.

How should someone who does not have a business or a job that would "justify" carrying a gun respond?

As I was not trying to be evasive or confrontational, the calm explanation that "I always carry" was my natural answer. I was actually sorta surprised at the level of validity a business card can generate. That really was the "magic moment" where everything deescalated, he even took the time to hand it to his partner.

My encounter also reinforced that unless you have a dead hooker in your hands, "calm is contagious." It is was allowed me to take a couple cops at the height of "shoot a cop" season from guns drawn to "have a nice day" in three minutes. I wonder if I have the South Florida record time.

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 12:55
Good story, glad everyone was so cool.
I am annoyed with a perspective that must have justification for carrying a gun but irrespective of the personal views of officers and perhaps those who wish they were the only people armed in the streets, it is also just good police work to ask. They don't care if they piss somebody off a little, what if it the person stupidly conveys criminal intent in their response?
"What's the gun for?", "Oh, my b**** ex got something comin"
It has happened before.


It was a fair question, I didn't mind being asked. Goes with the territory of "visible gun." When I was home in Iowa it was open carry and I probably got asked a dozen times, but it was always polite and professional so I simply answered that I always carry and did they want to see my CWP? A few did and I complied, a few told me to just keep my hands in my pockets until they drove away.

Whiskey_Bravo
01-07-15, 12:57
My encounter also reinforced that unless you have a dead hooker in your hands, "calm is contagious."

What if she is in the trunk?

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 13:16
What if she is in the trunk?


Well they don't know about it yet, so stay calm.

cbx
01-07-15, 13:37
Glad it went well. Whole thing seems odd to me. Were these officers detectives or patrol?

My bet is that they were looking for someone.

markm
01-07-15, 13:38
I wonder if they'd have stopped had you not had an open carry pistol....

Averageman
01-07-15, 13:45
Clearly your dogs set you up for this.
Were they watching out the front window ?

TAZ
01-07-15, 14:14
What?! Common sense, curtesy and professionalism on both sides of the equation and things run smooth. I'm shocked.

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 15:01
Glad it went well. Whole thing seems odd to me. Were these officers detectives or patrol?

My bet is that they were looking for someone.

Uniformed officers in an unmarked black SUV. Could have been anything, I didn't ask.


I wonder if they'd have stopped had you not had an open carry pistol....

Maybe, maybe not.


Clearly your dogs set you up for this.
Were they watching out the front window ?

I would assume so, but I was paying attention to the two guys with the firearms who had questions.

Caeser25
01-07-15, 15:58
Common sense prevailed between honest law abiding person using his brain and LEOs using there's. No YT vid required :cool:

I'd say it does require one. Discussing the gentlemanly way to act.

SteyrAUG
01-07-15, 17:24
I'd say it does require one. Discussing the gentlemanly way to act.

Ironically when everyone involved is genuinely trying to make sure things don't go wrong and / or improve a situation, there really isn't much opportunity to start recording.

WillBrink
01-07-15, 18:03
I'd say it does require one. Discussing the gentlemanly way to act.

Chris Rock does a good job of it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQDvYOt_iA

.46caliber
01-07-15, 19:31
This would be a fantastic illustration for conceal/carry permit classes.

I took my class from an active shooting instructor, if memory serves, for a local County PD. His insights on ways to interact with LEOs when carrying was invaluable.

Speaking calmly and being a bit up-front can go a long way to keeping things dialed down, rather than up. If myself and the officer both get to stay at ease and don't feel threatened, the outcome is mutually better.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

MountainRaven
01-07-15, 21:30
Really there is no such thing as concealment in south florida.

Choices are:

1. Fanny pack which may as well say "gun" on it.
2. Reporters vest or biker vest which may as well say "gun inside" on it.
3. A guy wearing a t shirt and an unbuttoned collar shirt which might as well say "gun inside."

Of course you can use a supertuck setup. And that is where they will find the gun on your dead body as you attempted to untuck and draw and play catch up during a "happening now" threat.


Having experimented with all of the above and the realization that it is painfully easy to pick out everyone carrying in a tropical environment, my best results for smooth and easy draw was OTW concealed by a reporter vest.

As a bonus now that I'm middle aged I have lots of pockets for reading glasses, prescription medicines and don't have to worry about sitting on my cell phone. The vest rocks.

What about the guys in white linen suits?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b4/Miami_Vice_Blues_Glass.jpg

:sarcastic:

SeriousStudent
01-07-15, 22:21
Good work by all parties.

I'm also a big fan of the low ready. You are not covering anyone's body, and with proper trigger discipline, you following all four rules.

Bulletdog
01-07-15, 23:07
Chris Rock does a good job of it:


That was hilarious Will. Thanks.

Judging from what happened today with SteyrAUG, he already knows Chris's tips.

TehLlama
01-08-15, 00:46
Ironically when everyone involved is genuinely trying to make sure things don't go wrong and / or improve a situation, there really isn't much opportunity to start recording.

Mirrors my experience. Also, when all parties are actively seeking to make the situation go calmly, there isn't much opportunity to make it go really sideways.

SteyrAUG
01-08-15, 02:10
What about the guys in white linen suits?


:sarcastic:

If that style came back it might be an option. But I don't think it's gonna happen. Also not a huge fan of shoulder holsters, they tend to be sweat sponges.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-15, 11:31
No good cop accepts gratuities, and if they do, their supervisor should know about it…FYI.

SteyrAUG
01-08-15, 11:51
No good cop accepts gratuities, and if they do, their supervisor should know about it…FYI.


While the decline rate would likely be high, the genuine offer and appreciation shown accomplishes many of the same goals.

bzdog
01-08-15, 14:39
The Don Johnson look works with belt holsters too.

-john

FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-15, 16:10
No good cop accepts gratuities, and if they do, their supervisor should know about it…FYI.

After I was robbed at gun point and the cops caught the guy, my buddies and I brought donuts down when we had to fill out some paper work.

It's not like they kept on catching suspects to get more donuts.