View Full Version : Ares Armor Letter to BATFE - Ha ha ha ha
So stinkin' funny. Touche.
Make sure you see the crayon explanation, as Mr. Karras put it "To make things easier for you and your agents to understand, I have commissioned these concepts to be drawn in crayon. I have attached this drawing to this letter. You are welcome."
http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2015/01/07/aresarmor-letter-to-batfe/
http://aresarmor.com/store/NewsArticle/atf_rul2015-1
Coloring book :)
https://drive.google.com/a/lg.k12.ok.us/file/d/0B99vEBRSpVxralZkNnlHOUFpeVk/view
http://aresarmor.com/store/media/cms/xmodnewsrss/according%20to%20BTodd%20Coloring%20Book_Page_1.jpg
http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/AAATF4.jpg
SilverBullet432
01-07-15, 11:10
LOL! i love the colorful art work. that takes guts to send right there!!
Awesome. My Bro-in-Law deals with a lot of the ATF mental midgets at his place of employment. This will still be over most of their heads.
This Ares armor deal has been going on for a while now with atf and the city.
I'd move, but if they like CA that much, it's great that they aren't lying down.
Mauser KAR98K
01-07-15, 16:14
Raid at Ares in 3...2...1...
I find the crayola drawing really creative and a tad funny. I also find it unprofessional, condescending and over the top, bordering on looking for a fight. There are far more effective ways to make a point than to belittle an individual, which is clearly the intent of this drawing. When you take it to that extreme your point is generally lost.
I'm not so sure how I'd react were I on the receiving end of that little prank. You can argue "they deserve it" and I will understand your position. However, most folks here know who will generally come out on top of any fight picking with the ATF.
Ares is quickly losing my support. A applaud anyone fighting the good fight but instead of taking a stand and doing it the way they should, they have started playing children's games. This kind of crap is funny sure, but it also just pisses off the people you need to convince.
Looks about like their commercials. Must used the same production crew or something.
.........................
I find the crayola drawing really creative and a tad funny. I also find it unprofessional, condescending and over the top, bordering on looking for a fight. There are far more effective ways to make a point than to belittle an individual, which is clearly the intent of this drawing. When you take it to that extreme your point is generally lost.
I'm not so sure how I'd react were I on the receiving end of that little prank. You can argue "they deserve it" and I will understand your position. However, most folks here know who will generally come out on top of any fight picking with the ATF.
You obviously didn't read the letter, it's actually better than the drawings.
http://aresarmor.com/store/NewsArticle/atf_rul2015-1
And given the asinine position of the director, he had it coming. Sometimes you just really need to dumb it down to the third grade to help people figure out why they are wrong.
Ares is quickly losing my support. A applaud anyone fighting the good fight but instead of taking a stand and doing it the way they should, they have started playing children's games. This kind of crap is funny sure, but it also just pisses off the people you need to convince.
Some people said the same about Ronnie Barrett when he told Cali PDs to **** off. At what point do we stop placating ATF and continue asking for more gruel? Obviously their error was originally pointed in a more professional manner and it had zero impact.
ATF needs to abide by their exiting definitions and rules or risk being seen as wishy washy incompetents who don't know what the hell they are doing.
ATF needs to abide by their exiting definitions and rules or risk being seen as wishy washy incompetents who don't know what the hell they are doing.
I'm pretty sure the cats out of the bag on that one already lol
You obviously didn't read the letter, it's actually better than the drawings.
http://aresarmor.com/store/NewsArticle/atf_rul2015-1
And given the asinine position of the director, he had it coming. Sometimes you just really need to dumb it down to the third grade to help people figure out why they are wrong.
Sure did, I found the tone of the letter no better than the drawing. When you are correct on a point it is especially intelligent and wise to take the high road.
To many panzie asses here. I'm currently fighting my local anti gun government who's trying to outright crucify me and has been trying to go after my own family with easy to prove completely baseless manufactured evidence as an attempt to ware me down. It's taken outright telling detectives to **** off to there faces to get any calm around here. In this day and age the legal system is an unreliable joke and the government is criminalizing everything for no reason at all every damn day. Never had any trouble with anyone in my life until an over zealous liberal DA who screwed me over in the past found out I carry. So I say "Bravo Ares!"
Eta: And this isn't an anti LE thing so nobody go putting words in my mouth. I don't have a problem with cops.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
"Wear" you down.
Don't make silly assumptions, based on your circumstances, then apply it to everyone who posted negatively about the coloring book approach.
"Wear" you down.
Don't make silly assumptions, based on your circumstances, then apply it to everyone who posted negatively about the coloring book approach.
Grammar was never my strong suite, I've focused on other things in my life. Couple that with using a phone or tablet with auto correct and tapatalk it can be a miracle to form a complete sentence at times.
Wait till your cornered by those who you were raised to believe are the "good guy's" for events that are no fault of your own. Wait till you've been pushed around and near bankrupted in attorney fees by them. Had you're life turned upside down and watched them pressure you're family to get to you. I've taken the high road and put myself in debt for the forceable future paying for attorneys. It still hasn't been enough. Pushing back against a bully is the only thing that they will understand. Anyone who thinks you can fight fair and win outside of a sporting event, especially against a super sized adversary, has never been in a scrap before. People love to talk about how they would fight no holds barred against an attacker in their home or on the streets, but when it comes to those who attack them on a daily basis they suddenly think that they should role over. Court often turns into a matter of who has the deeper pockets. Unfortunately many people who work for a living don't have much money to fight someone as rich as the government because they took it all from them to give to those who don't work.
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brushy bill
01-07-15, 23:05
Grammar was never my strong suite. People love to talk about how they would fight no holds barred against an attacker in their home or on the streets, but when it comes to those who attack them on a daily basis they suddenly think that they should role over.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
"roll over" not "role over"....sorry, couldn't resist since HKGuns wants to turn this into a spelling bee....:) Humor, not sarcasm.
"roll over" not "role over"....sorry, couldn't resist since HKGuns wants to turn this into a spelling bee....:) Humor, not sarcasm.
It's all good. I try not to get too butt hurt on the Internet. I mainly just bail out when it seems like things are going in circles on the Internet.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
Sure did, I found the tone of the letter no better than the drawing. When you are correct on a point it is especially intelligent and wise to take the high road.
On one hand I agree, on the other I completely understand Ares.
Cincinnatus
01-08-15, 02:12
Ares is quickly losing my support. A applaud anyone fighting the good fight but instead of taking a stand and doing it the way they should, they have started playing children's games. This kind of crap is funny sure, but it also just pisses off the people you need to convince.
Kwelz, no insult to you personally is intended here, but I must disagree:
This assumes the leadership ( not the rank and file) in the ATF are just in error here and are willing to be convinced of something, rather than deliberately and systematically employing sophistry, double-speak, intimidation, and lies to reach their goal of the disarmament and subjugation of the American public.
Their whole raison d'être is to infringe that which , "shall not be infringed." They know exactly what they are doing in this case and their " errors" of interpretation/policy, etc. are just the tools to get to their goal.
I suppose those who reason that Ares is over the top would also have disapproved of the Boston Tea Party because it would not "convince" King George?
This is not a Tea Party, but it is in the same spirit of pulling the veil back from the hypocrisy of tyrants.
Kwelz, no insult to you personally is intended here, but I must disagree:
This assumes the leadership ( not the rank and file) in the ATF are just in error here and are willing to be convinced of something, rather than deliberately and systematically employing sophistry, double-speak, intimidation, and lies to reach their goal of the disarmament and subjugation of the American public.
Their whole raison d'être is to infringe that which , "shall not be infringed." They know exactly what they are doing in this case and their " errors" of interpretation/policy, etc. are just the tools to get to their goal.
I suppose those who reason that Ares is over the top would also have disapproved of the Boston Tea Party because it would not "convince" King George?
This is not a Tea Party, but it is in the same spirit of pulling the veil back from the hypocrisy of tyrants.
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.
This was a deliberate overreach and they need to be called on it.
Kwelz, no insult to you personally is intended here, but I must disagree:
This assumes the leadership ( not the rank and file) in the ATF are just in error here and are willing to be convinced of something, rather than deliberately and systematically employing sophistry, double-speak, intimidation, and lies to reach their goal of the disarmament and subjugation of the American public.
Their whole raison d'être is to infringe that which , "shall not be infringed." They know exactly what they are doing in this case and their " errors" of interpretation/policy, etc. are just the tools to get to their goal.
I suppose those who reason that Ares is over the top would also have disapproved of the Boston Tea Party because it would not "convince" King George?
This is not a Tea Party, but it is in the same spirit of pulling the veil back from the hypocrisy of tyrants.
Totally agreed.
Kwelz, no insult to you personally is intended here, but I must disagree:
This assumes the leadership ( not the rank and file) in the ATF are just in error here and are willing to be convinced of something, rather than deliberately and systematically employing sophistry, double-speak, intimidation, and lies to reach their goal of the disarmament and subjugation of the American public.
Their whole raison d'être is to infringe that which , "shall not be infringed." They know exactly what they are doing in this case and their " errors" of interpretation/policy, etc. are just the tools to get to their goal.
I suppose those who reason that Ares is over the top would also have disapproved of the Boston Tea Party because it would not "convince" King George?
This is not a Tea Party, but it is in the same spirit of pulling the veil back from the hypocrisy of tyrants.
No insult taken. I will say I wasn't even really thinking of the ATF in this case.
Think of it this way. Eventually this will probably go to court. That means a judge and/or Jury will be looking at this case and all the evidence. Things like this will make Ares look like a bunch of clowns. I could care less what the people at the ATF think.
Eurodriver
01-08-15, 10:07
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.
This was a deliberate overreach and they need to be called on it.
Agreed.
The people upset by Ares Armor are the same types who will stand by and let the ATF come into their house and take all of their firearms while having preached "WILL NOT COMPLY" on the internet the day before.
Truthfully, they just don't have the testicles to do something like that themselves.
I know its not entirely related to the topic at hand, but I have a hard time supporting a company that puts out shit like this.....
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7qr0/ares-weapons-build-your-own
I honestly think the crayon crap was better done than their commercial. Ares vs. ATF is like watching someone with down syndrome fight someone afflicted with polio.....just saying.
Agreed.
The people upset by Ares Armor are the same types who will stand by and let the ATF come into their house and take all of their firearms while having preached "WILL NOT COMPLY" on the internet the day before.
Truthfully, they just don't have the testicles to do something like that themselves.
Can't say that I agree with this. What Ares is doing is akin to poking a bear with a stick. Do you think you can convince the bear to yield to you with antagonizing little pokes or should the efforts be focused on means of correction that are recognized by all sides?
At best I put this Ares thing up there with random internet commandos who constantly send letters to the ATF for 'clarification' of items that are gray area. 2A is quite clear so unless the ATF/NFA specifically outlaws something then gray area is go. Asking for permission or clarification of gray area gives credence to them being able to take away freedoms by individuals drafting letters in response. Why bring attention to it? Ask permission for something you're able to do on your own will eventually draw an answer of no. Why keep asking?
While I support the sentiment I don't support the methodology. Any kid in Jr High has the power to do what they've done here and while entertaining it's really not something we should all blindly back. Ultimately it makes our side look weaker, immature and less intelligent.
I know its not entirely related to the topic at hand, but I have a hard time supporting a company that puts out shit like this.....
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7qr0/ares-weapons-build-your-own
I honestly think the crayon crap was better done than their commercial. Ares vs. ATF is like watching someone with down syndrome fight someone afflicted with polio.....just saying.
Just curious what your objection to that commercial was? Was it that they were promoting the legality of home built firearms or was it the zombie crap?
Flankenstein
01-08-15, 12:11
Agreed.
The people upset by Ares Armor are the same types who will stand by and let the ATF come into their house and take all of their firearms while having preached "WILL NOT COMPLY" on the internet the day before.
Truthfully, they just don't have the testicles to do something like that themselves.
Bingo.
On the web:
"MOLON LABE"
In reality:
Ok, here you go...
Bingo.
On the web:
"MOLON LABE"
In reality:
Ok, here you go...
Well isn't Molon Labe literal translation mean
Come and take them? Lol
Here fixed it:
On the web:
"From my cold dead hands!"
In reality:
Ok, here you go...
Eurodriver
01-08-15, 12:34
Can't say that I agree with this. What Ares is doing is akin to poking a bear with a stick. Do you think you can convince the bear to yield to you with antagonizing little pokes or should the efforts be focused on means of correction that are recognized by all sides?
At best I put this Ares thing up there with random internet commandos who constantly send letters to the ATF for 'clarification' of items that are gray area. 2A is quite clear so unless the ATF/NFA specifically outlaws something then gray area is go. Asking for permission or clarification of gray area gives credence to them being able to take away freedoms by individuals drafting letters in response. Why bring attention to it? Ask permission for something you're able to do on your own will eventually draw an answer of no. Why keep asking?
While I support the sentiment I don't support the methodology. Any kid in Jr High has the power to do what they've done here and while entertaining it's really not something we should all blindly back. Ultimately it makes our side look weaker, immature and less intelligent.
I understand your point, but civil disobedience has yielded results many many times throughout history. It's ironic you mention a Bear, as Vaclav Havel used many similar amateurish methods fighting the soviets - and it worked.
You may not agree with the methodology, as you stated, but they are at te tip of the ATF spear right now and I can't fault them for being a bit arrogant.
I understand your point, but civil disobedience has yielded results many many times throughout history. It's ironic you mention a Bear, as Vaclav Havel used many similar amateurish methods fighting the soviets - and it worked.
You may not agree with the methodology, as you stated, but they are at te tip of the ATF spear right now and I can't fault them for being a bit arrogant.
This isn't an example of civil disobedience because they're still complying with the law. What's that proving?
Civil disobedience would be to sell 99% lower receivers if this is their point. The problem with civil disobedience is it puts you in the line of fire so to speak regarding law and recourse. That's the point of civil disobedience is not adhering to laws that you find unjust which in turns forces their hand to enforce them and eventually gives you a case to bring to court regarding said unjust law.
Much like the reference earlier about fighting when they come to your door to collect firearms... not to many are actually willing to do this. Crayon drawings is not akin to this despite what some would have you believe.
Real change doesn't come from this. Real change is messy and takes a little more effort than a whimsical coloring. I wish it were this easy but if it were those who oppose our views tend to be more artistic so we'd probably have even less freedoms.
Things like this will make Ares look like a bunch of clowns. I could care less what the people at the ATF think.
No, it makes them look like a bunch of people who take things like our Constitutionally protected rights, and the ATF's seemingly deliberate decision to ignore legal precedent and federal court decisions seriously, but not themselves. So kudos to them.
One very successful tactic of the gun-grabbers in the media is to find people to argue for our 2nd Amendment protected rights who take themselves far too seriously and come off so often as simply potentially dangerous wingnuts. Thus people like those at Ares are one of their worst propaganda nightmares.
You really think the antis want mainstream America to see things from gun rights supporters like those cartoons, things they would find creative, funny, clever, playful, disarming, and whimsical? No, I don't think so.
No, it makes them look like a bunch of people who take things like our Constitutionally protected rights, and the ATF's seemingly deliberate decision to ignore legal precedent and federal court decisions seriously but not themselves.
No, it makes them look like clowns......
As do the zombie crap, scream outfits, and lets not forget the "limited edition hatchet sets"....wow.
double-speak
As much double speak as they use, you'd think someone turned up a copy of Orwells 1984, shook it and they're what fell out...
ETA
With the Ares letter pointing out ATF decisions referencing settled case law, that ATF immediately then ignores, makes me wonder if they're building a Title 18 "color of law" case....
No, it makes them look like clowns......
Perhaps to those who take themselves far too seriously, or have the sense of humor of a plank of wood.
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