Guns Confiscated after Man Seeks Insomnia Treatment

[7.62NATO]

.........................

[jpmuscle]

Sigh..... So many things that could be said.. The SAFE Act was/is nothing but an insult to liberty... The brain child of some of those who have sworn the oath at that..


All the more reason to register nothing..

[HKGuns]

Sigh..... So many things that could be said.. The SAFE Act was/is nothing but an insult to liberty... The brain child of some of those who have sworn the oath at that..


All the more reason to register nothing..

Apparently not, the idiot was re-elected. They have what they deserve.

[jpmuscle]

Apparently not, the idiot was re-elected. They have what they deserve.
I was reference senior NYS police brass as they had a significant role in the laws early crafting and development. The political quacks go without saying.

[HKGuns]

Gotcha.

[Bulletdog]

Why are officers who have sworn to uphold the constitution enforcing such unconstitutional laws?

This sort of thing is despicable. They can't get enough public support to outright ban our guns, so they instead sneak around and back door them whenever they can? Enough already.

[brushy bill]

Related topic: It is exactly this type of chicanery that prevents vets who need help from getting it. Imagine a vet in NY who admitted to PTSD. I imagine a confiscation would occur post haste. What a shame.

[Sensei]

I'm not so sure that we have all of the facts here. Something does not pass the sniff test. It appears that he was actually admitted to the hospital which does not happen just for insomnia. It is possible that he came to the hospital with more than just insomnia which is not getting reported by his lawyer. I've personally committed hundreds of people who were coo coo for coco puffs when they came to the emergency department, but much improved 4 or 5 days later at discharge. Thus, are the hospital findings listed by the lawyers representative of the entire hospital encounter or just the findings at discharge?

[jpmuscle]

I'm not so sure that we have all of the facts here. Something does not pass the sniff test. It appears that he was actually admitted to the hospital which does not happen just for insomnia. It is possible that he came to the hospital with more than just insomnia which is not getting reported by his lawyer. I've personally committed hundreds of people who were coo coo for coco puffs when they came to the emergency department, but much improved 4 or 5 days later at discharge. Thus, are the hospital findings listed by the lawyers representative of the entire hospital encounter or just the findings at discharge?

My guess is he came in voluntarily and somewhere along the lines got converted to 9.39 involuntary status, either at the ER doc or the attending or on call psychiatrists attention. Without all the info it's total speculation to guess what his presenting condition was at the time of evaluation and subsequent admission. Heck he could of said he took a couple extra ambien for to try and help him sleep and all of a sudden that gets inflated and construed into suicidal ideation. Or he said something else he shouldn't have. Or an ex wife or gf said he threatened to harm her even. Or they decided it was PTSD related from his time in the military and therefore he was at a risk for violence.

At any rate one of the biggest fundamental flaws in the SAFE act that allows for abuses to happen is the utter lack of adjudication with respect to person's alleged dangerousness. Absent due process in a court of law to discern mental defect the nullifying of ones 2A is bs. Now hospitals in NY during the course of processing in a new patient on involuntary status will send record to the NY state police under the auspice of the new reporting laws irrespective of why the person was admitted in the first place which eventually get cross referenced with pistol permit databases at the county level.

Also, their have already been documented instances where privacy restrictions on medical information have been violated by the NYSP and 2A rights have been terminated as a result.

[SteyrAUG]

New York, where the Mayor supports cop killers and former cops trying to get a good nights sleep are viewed as dangerous psychopaths.

Obviously some state is seriously looking to challenge CA for "most batshit crazy state in the union."

[ThirdWatcher]

Related topic: It is exactly this type of chicanery that prevents vets who need help from getting it. Imagine a vet in NY who admitted to PTSD. I imagine a confiscation would occur post haste. What a shame.

+1 I couldn't agree more.

[Averageman]

I'm not so sure that we have all of the facts here. Something does not pass the sniff test. It appears that he was actually admitted to the hospital which does not happen just for insomnia. It is possible that he came to the hospital with more than just insomnia which is not getting reported by his lawyer. I've personally committed hundreds of people who were coo coo for coco puffs when they came to the emergency department, but much improved 4 or 5 days later at discharge. Thus, are the hospital findings listed by the lawyers representative of the entire hospital encounter or just the findings at discharge?
Sleep Study overnight would require being admitted wouldn't it? Perhaps they were trying to rule out something like sleep apnea and the whole ball of wax took on a life of its own when red flags started popping up.
I have what some might consider mild OCD, but then again others might find my need to be orderly, neat and my repeated hand washing just cleanliness and good housekeeping.
I would think reading a written report that would determine if someone is actually Coo Coo for Coco puffs would mean that they are so far away from the actual Patient they have no right to determine their mental fitness especially when it comes to their liberties.
As far as Vets and the VA, locally one of our VA Psychologists was found to have a large number of weapons and several thousand rounds of ammo in his truck which was parked in the parking lot. He was of course dismissed from his job, I'm not sure if he still has his license, but I'm pretty sure he wont work for the VA again and I believe we occasionally shot IDPA together.
I think if I had issues the VA might be the last place I would go to let someone have a peek at them.

[markm]

Why are officers who have sworn to uphold the constitution enforcing such unconstitutional laws?


You can't REALLY count East Coast Cops as legit Law Enforcement. Sorry.

[J-Dub]

I'm not so sure that we have all of the facts here. Something does not pass the sniff test. It appears that he was actually admitted to the hospital which does not happen just for insomnia. It is possible that he came to the hospital with more than just insomnia which is not getting reported by his lawyer. I've personally committed hundreds of people who were coo coo for coco puffs when they came to the emergency department, but much improved 4 or 5 days later at discharge. Thus, are the hospital findings listed by the lawyers representative of the entire hospital encounter or just the findings at discharge?

My thoughts exactly. I'm sure the "victim" here wouldn't want to alert the press that he made statements that would indicate a mental health issue...then he wouldn't get his firearms back, or win a lawsuit. Or maybe its a perfect storm of draconian law meets gun grabbing authorities...I don't know, but something does not add up.

I've been dispatched to do welfare checks on vets that call the V.A. or other hotlines, just like citizens. I've met some normal folks that just needed help, I've also met some real whackadoos that are three sheets to the wind ****ing crazy too. Luckily in all cases (well except one...) everything worked out and they got some help and didn't off themselves.

[Caeser25]

I've said it before. I'll say it again. THIS IS why Omaocare was passed. It eventually turns to total control.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psikhushka

[Sensei]

Sleep Study overnight would require being admitted wouldn't it? Perhaps they were trying to rule out something like sleep apnea and the whole ball of wax took on a life of its own when red flags started popping up.

He went to the emergency department...for insomnia...twice.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/06/retired-cop-and-navy-veteran-donald-montgomery-sues-new-york-state-seizing-his-guns-after

[Averageman]

I'm not sure how jacked up you must feel to endure the ER, Twice.

[SteyrAUG]

He went to the emergency department...for insomnia...twice.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/06/retired-cop-and-navy-veteran-donald-montgomery-sues-new-york-state-seizing-his-guns-after

Not sure of his particular details but chronic insomnia gives me wicked migraines. If I wasn't already taking care of it with my regular doctor I could see somebody going to the ER. Twelve hour bouts with severe migraines are brutal.

[Sensei]

Not sure of his particular details but chronic insomnia gives me wicked migraines. If I wasn't already taking care of it with my regular doctor I could see somebody going to the ER. Twelve hour bouts with severe migraines are brutal.

There was no mention of migraines, only insomnia and mild depression. Having said that, emergency physicians are trained to recognize high-risk patterns such as:
1) Bounce-back visits within 72 hours - check
2) Old men complaing of depression (high suicide risk) - check
3) People with access to guns saying they are depressed - check
4) People depressed around the Holidays (higher suicide rates) - check

So, this guy has tons of high-risk features and it would not surprise me in the least if the emergency physician committed him on the second visit if the depressive symptoms were worsening even if he initially came in voluntarily. After all, imagine the public outcry if this guy was discharged a second time and went home to kill himself or someone else like so many people do. We'd be reading about how the negligent doctors failed to prevent an obvious tragedy in the making.

I know that the ED has become a clinic of convenience for many people. Hell, some of my colleagues encourage these low acuity visits as a easy source of revenue. Well, I'm not one of those doctors. The bottom line is that the ED is the place to go when you need someone to save your life or manage an acute condition when there is no one else available or capable to save your ass. It is NOT were you go to get your chronic conditions managed, second opinions, free testing, or other bullshit complaints like insomnia addressed. People who fail to understand this warning can expect the worst case scenario responses from the worst case senario doctors...

[jpmuscle]

There was no mention of migraines, only insomnia and mild depression. Having said that, emergency physicians are trained to recognize high-risk patterns such as:
1) Bounce-back visits within 72 hours - check
2) Old men complaing of depression (high suicide risk) - check
3) People with access to guns saying they are depressed - check
4) People depressed around the Holidays (higher suicide rates) - check

So, this guy has tons of high-risk features and it would not surprise me in the least if the emergency physician committed him on the second visit if the depressive symptoms were worsening even if he initially came in voluntarily. After all, imagine the public outcry if this guy was discharged a second time and went home to kill himself or someone else like so many people do. We'd be reading about how the negligent doctors failed to prevent an obvious tragedy in the making.

I know that the ED has become a clinic of convenience for many people. Hell, some of my colleagues encourage these low acuity visits as a easy source of revenue. Well, I'm not one of those doctors. The bottom line is that the ED is the place to go when you need someone to save your life or manage an acute condition when there is no one else available or capable to save your ass. It is NOT were you go to get your chronic conditions managed, second opinions, free testing, or other bullshit complaints like insomnia addressed. People who fail to understand this warning can expect the worst case scenario responses from the worst case senario doctors...
You should see the rent a docs at my local ER... Travesty sums it up nicely. Add to that the fact that the IPMH units have a hard on for census levels and the result is 90% of the patients do not meet legal admission criteria.