View Full Version : Sierra 77gr Tipped MK
Alaska3006
01-08-15, 22:42
I noticed Sierra will be offering the 77gr Match King Tipped later this year to the public.
Back order or Pre Order is avaiable now on Sierra website.
What do I do with 400 Sierra MK 77 gr that I have now.............a lot of shooting :)
Paradis1142
01-09-15, 06:12
Awesome. I have always had good luck loading sierras.
They are "available" now, I ordered a bunch just after new years, when they will ship is anyones guess as I am sure that Sierra is swamped with orders as usual.
Pappabear just dropped 900 of these bullets of tonight. Guess we'll be running some tests on Saturday.
I got a couple hundred 69gr and 77gr TMK's to try out. From my minimal testing, the same loads appear to work just as well. Although the bullet does need to be seated into the case more than standard SMK's due to the steeper ogive. It almost looks like it's seated too deep, but they measures out to 2.25X OAL.
This is awesome. Are you guys able to use standard dies, or do you have to use "VLD" dies to avoid messing with the tips?
This is awesome. Are you guys able to use standard dies, or do you have to use "VLD" dies to avoid messing with the tips?
I used my Forster BR die. Tips look to still in good shape.
Pappabear just dropped 900 of these bullets of tonight. Guess we'll be running some tests on Saturday.
Double check that 900, because it means Lambone accidentally snaked a 100.
No bueno
I can't wait to compare the flight vs the regular Gold Standard at 500 and 1000 yards.
Standard dies shouldn't mess with or touch the tips. The Ogive looks pretty tangant to me.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2yo8g9d.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/34gublj.jpg
Redding Dies here.
I also loaded some 77 TMKs the same as one of my better 77 SMK loads, hopefully if temps get back into the reasonable range soon I can test the new TMKs out.
I'm somewhat skeptical on seeing much difference in these compared to regular 77 SMKs. We'll shoot them at 500 and 1000 yards tomorrow and know something.
diving dave
02-20-15, 11:55
Hmmmm...I wonder what terminal performance would be on a coyote?:cool:
Hmmmm...I wonder what terminal performance would be on a coyote?:cool:
I definitely plan to find out next time I go hunting.
Hmmmm...I wonder what terminal performance would be on a coyote?:cool:
This. ^^
Hmmmm...I wonder what terminal performance would be on a coyote?:cool:
Probably Terminal. ��
Probably Terminal. ��
Some of those coyotes in Nam were as big as Grizzly bears.
I picked up a few hundred going to try it with benchmark and R15 hoping they were worth getting over standard OTMK
hoping they were worth getting over standard OTMK
I'm not. Nosler 77s are WAY cheaper. ;)
Some of those coyotes in Nam were as big as Grizzly bears.
Solid White Grizzyotes we called them. Akin to the Solarbear. Always going right to the back of a mans neck (AKA Bear Candy). Carried a cross and Bible 24/7. The Good ole days!
Well this is going to be tougher than I thought. Despite the bullets not appearing much different, I had to dial my seater down .060" to get them to correct length. And that's way more than the small amount of additional length that you could credit to the polymer tip.
These definitely are a different bullet, and they gobble up a noticeably greater amount of case volume. I have a feeling an equal powder charge will mean the new bullet will have a velocity advantage out of the gate. We'll have to chrono these and see what happens.
vicious_cb
02-20-15, 20:09
Well this is going to be tougher than I thought. Despite the bullets not appearing much different, I had to dial my seater down .060" to get them to correct length. And that's way more than the small amount of additional length that you could credit to the polymer tip.
These definitely are a different bullet, and they gobble up a noticeably greater amount of case volume. I have a feeling an equal powder charge will mean the new bullet will have a velocity advantage out of the gate. We'll have to chrono these and see what happens.
If you load 70gr TSX I would hazard to guess that the seating depth might be similar.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/leid/Ammo/057ebfb8-54f6-4742-86a9-dbb285b1cab1_zpsfa95a404.jpg
Standard dies shouldn't mess with or touch the tips. The Ogive looks pretty tangant to me.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2yo8g9d.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/34gublj.jpg
Thar be the evil green tip! Lol.
I guess that might be the only green tipped 5.56 that is worth a $1.
Will be interested to hear your thoughts markm. Getting the reloader set up here and may be stealing some of your recipes. Or at least basing some loads off of them.
Who's going to be loading these over some 8208 XBR? I bet that's a killer combination.
Mark loaded some XBR to try as well. We thought the same. The XBR might be the ticket on these. We'll know soon enough.
Who's going to be loading these over some 8208 XBR? I bet that's a killer combination.
I used XBR and it produced results just as good as 77gr SMK's @ 100yds with the 10 that I loaded. I have yet to push it further, but I did use the same powder charge as 77gr SMK's. With the TMK's having a different ogive, the bullet uses more case volume to load to mag length. Sierra didn't just put a green tip on a SMK. These really are a different bullet design.
I liked the 69gr TMK's with H322 better than the 77gr with XBR. I found them to more accurate with the same powder charge.
I liked the 69gr TMK's with H322 better than the 77gr with XBR. I found them to more accurate with the same powder charge.
As in, the same H322 powder charge for TMK as when using SMKs?
We shot the TMK's today. Results were quite good. Both Mark and I got 1/2 to sub 1/2 groups with both his H322 and XBR loads. Mark has some pics to post at 300 and 500 on steel. Today, the most impressive thing was how they cut the wind so much better.
We both went 3 for 4 at 1,000+ yards on a target about the size of a basketball. It was impressive. The load consistently let us decrease our wind hold by half. Wind was mild today at 5 mph. But consistent.
I would consider this to be a solid improvement over the standard SMK bullet. However, with the price of the 77 Noslers, that will be our go to bullet.
These bullets definitely showed some improvement over regular 77 OTMs. When I loaded them last night, I thought that we would NOT see comparable velocities and thus a head to head against 77 OTMs would be meaningless. But we chrono'd them first thing, and they were within 10-20 fps of the 77 OTMs despite the fact that they eat up more case volume. So that was good.
Here's a pick of two groups shot back to back on steel at 300 yards with an estimated 3-5 mph left to right wind. Group on the right is the regular 77 OTM, and the smaller group on the left is the green tip. The new Sierras grouped slightly higher and almost POA against the wind. Wind blew the regular 77s about 1 moa off of point of aim, the new bullets grouped 3 inches (1 mao) left of the first group with the exact same point of aim.
(Regular OTM over the Green tip group for scale reference only)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/AmmoandReloading/Sierra_zps4e34becb.jpg
Here's a 100 yard group that Pappabear shot with the legendary Rem 700 5R. These bullets are good.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/AmmoandReloading/sierra1_zps27ca8d90.jpg
bsoileau24
02-21-15, 18:33
Thanks for the update Markm. I will be giving these a go in the near future.
Thanks for the update Markm. I will be giving these a go in the near future.
At 1070 yards, the looked to be impacting 12-14 inches higher than 77 OTMs. When we dialed them in hits were easier to get with the 223 than they were with the 300 Win Mag. I laugh when guys as what caliber they should get if they want to shoot long range. Shit.. the .223 is the easiest gun to get hits at 1000 (in mild wind) of them all.
We both went 3 for 4 at 1,000+ yards on a target about the size of a basketball. It was impressive.
What barrel brand and length were you guys running?
At 1070 yards, the looked to be impacting 12-14 inches higher than 77 OTMs. When we dialed them in hits were easier to get with the 223 than they were with the 300 Win Mag. I laugh when guys as what caliber they should get if they want to shoot long range. Shit.. the .223 is the easiest gun to get hits at 1000 (in mild wind) of them all.
Are you running the same charge weights with H322 and XBR that you have been with 77gr SMKs?
Are you running the same charge weights with H322 and XBR that you have been with 77gr SMKs?
I'm not positive. But I think the H322 was the same. And XBR MAY HAVE BEEN SLIGHTLY TWEAKED. Which as Mark stated resulted in almost exact same velocities. +20fps faster.
What barrel brand and length were you guys running?
Factory stock 20 inch 5R , Remmy 700
Same H322 load. XBR was 2/10's lower at 23.2 gr because I was concerned about the case volume. But that doesn't appear to be an issue at all.
As in, the same H322 powder charge for TMK as when using SMKs?
Yes, the same powder charge as used with the SMK's.
Same H322 load. XBR was 2/10's lower at 23.2 gr because I was concerned about the case volume. But that doesn't appear to be an issue at all.
Nah, the full power XBR load runs great with the TMK's. And no pressure signs whatsoever.
I had really high expectations for these bullets and it looks like they lived up to them.
I had really high expectations for these bullets and it looks like they lived up to them.
Yeah. There's no question they perform better. It's just a trade off since they cost more than we pay for Noslers.
Ran one of these through the water just test using factory LC primed brass and 23.4 gr XBR through an 11.5 BCM barrel.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/AmmoandReloading/greentip_zpsjrwuzdyq.jpg
How many jugs did it penetrate? From the looks of it, it seems to have acted as a huge VMAX and blown up immediately, but that's my uneducated guess. I'm still hoping that people report good things when using the 69gr TMKs on coyote.
How many jugs did it make it through?
I finally got around to a little testing with some 69gr TMK's, which is all I had loaded up at the time, but I found it interesting nonetheless. With Hodgdon's max load of H322 and Wolf SRM primers, the TMK's ran ~40 fps faster than SMK's due to deeper seating. I would expect a similar velocity increase with 77gr TMK's over SMK's. With the XBR load, the 77gr TMK's might be in Mk262 velocity territory.
69gr TMK's/H322/Wolf SRM: 2737 fps
69gr SMK's/H322/Wolf SRM: 2696 fps
I love the TMK I use 22.5 gr of benchmark and get no more than .75 5 shot groups at 100 yards I'll continue to buy these. Way better than the OTMK
But I was using R15 with those so not as comparable.
These shoot no better/worse for us in the accuracy department. As far as jugs?... I don't shoot regular gallon jugs so I can't give a standard comparison. But these DO seem to penetrate less than the regular OTMs. I set up an 8 lb hodgdon powder jug for the first one... then I had a 10" round protein synthesizer jug as the second one. It just went to the back end of the second jug and broke the skin without penetrating the last jug in the stack.
probably 14" of straight line penetration.
As far as jugs?... I don't shoot regular gallon jugs so I can't give a standard comparison...
... then I had a 10" round protein synthesizer jug as the second one.
What do you mean? I thought everyone uses 10" round protein synthesizer jugs.
:sarcastic:
Eurodriver
03-30-15, 17:42
I took something entirely different from that post.
Jugs and a 10" Protein synthesizer?
Eurodriver
03-30-15, 17:42
I took something entirely different from that post.
Jugs and a 10" Protein synthesizer?
vicious_cb
03-31-15, 17:30
Ran one of these through the water just test using factory LC primed brass and 23.4 gr XBR through an 11.5 BCM barrel.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/AmmoandReloading/greentip_zpsjrwuzdyq.jpg
Thats some nasty frag right there. Did you end up finding the core?
That's all I could find. I think a large chunk of core got out just after jug 2 and just before jug 3. But this was in grass, so I couldn't find it.
Shot a nice group with these on top of 23.4 gr of XBR last weekend.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/AmmoandReloading/Sierra_zpstaaqbkfq.jpg
I was spotting and watching the hole barely enlarge with each shot. The last shot was dead center and I couldn't even see it enlarge. These bullets do not disappoint. They are lasers and I like them.
It's also great news because it was with XBR, and you can actually find that powder.
I was spotting and watching the hole barely enlarge with each shot. The last shot was dead center and I couldn't even see it enlarge. These bullets do not disappoint. They are lasers and I like them.
It's also great news because it was with XBR, and you can actually find that powder.
Did y'all chrono them? I was gettin ~40fps more than SMK's due to the need to seat them deeper.
Y'all should try to 69gr TMK's too. I was amazed at how much better TMK's shoot than SMK's.
Did y'all chrono them? I was gettin ~40fps more than SMK's due to the need to seat them deeper.
Y'all should try to 69gr TMK's too. I was amazed at how much better TMK's shoot than SMK's.
No high pressure signs?
No high pressure signs?
Nope, none. Same exact load as SMK's worked very well with TMK's, with zero problems.
This sounds like a good improvement. I'm just getting caught up here as i just got back into town and headed south to Origun in a couple of days. I've got packages stacked deep at the house down there now that stuff is becoming available. It'll be like Christmas.
Is Sierra planning on expanding the TMK line to their 80 and 90gr MKs. With them flying flatter with less wind deflect they are sounding more like a 6.5 in light wind compared with the ol 308. I looked at the bullet tipping dies some time ago but i just don't have the time to shoot as i used to. Reloading time is still available but to justify $300 for dies compared with an additional $3/100 for the TMKs unless you just like going full on anal tard trimming metplats, forming tips and retrimming. Now that the cruntch is over and the 75 amax is available again I'll compare with the 80s and go from there.
It'll be interesting to see what happens this summer in compitition with folks using them on the 2 & 300yd lines. Granted, a bad wind call is bad but it'll buffer it abit. Is their a bc advantage over the standard 80gr mk?
No high pressure signs?
None. I also loaded some Mexican Match using XM193 primed brass. Shot same POI, just opened up the group size a tad.
Markm, I'm impressed with the level of precision shooting that you and others here have demonstrated. I would have thought that the .223 was not capable for such, and I would have been wrong. One question is what is the velocity range these .223 1000 yard loads at 1000? Do you weigh each charge or use a powder measure?
To a new guy wishing to reload precision ammo, please recommend a powder measure. Right now I'm instructing a young man(ex jar head)in reloading fundamentals, and when he approaches the intermediate skill level, then I'll be handing him off to you.
Markm,
What is your 1,000 yard DOPE for the 77 TMK at 1,000 yards?
I am about +38 MOA for the 75 grain Hornady at 2870 fps. G1 BBC of .395 a bit too optomistic, which surprises me. It seems to have a more tapered ogive than the 77 Sierra OTM. My elevation is closer to a G7 of about .190.
It is very accurate at 800 yards however.
I am using a tactical rather than target scope. Just an old Shepard 3 x 10 x 40 with stadia line circles that correspond to 350 inches drop at 1000. I really need a target scope to be sure.
I am shooting Lothar Walthar 1:8 20 inch barrel, Wylde chamber.
Anyway, would appreciate your dope.
Markm, I'm impressed with the level of precision shooting that you and others here have demonstrated. I would have thought that the .223 was not capable for such, and I would have been wrong. One question is what is the velocity range these .223 1000 yard loads at 1000? Do you weigh each charge or use a powder measure?
To a new guy wishing to reload precision ammo, please recommend a powder measure. Right now I'm instructing a young man(ex jar head)in reloading fundamentals, and when he approaches the intermediate skill level, then I'll be handing him off to you.
Oops... sorry I missed this. I just run the prepped and primed brass through my Dillon 550b. Since I'm using H322 and XBR, metering is just fine on the progressive.
Markm,
What is your 1,000 yard DOPE for the 77 TMK at 1,000 yards?
I'm going to have to hit Pappabear up. I think we were at 15.5 mils for the 14.5 BCM KMR upper with regular OTMs. Out of the bolt gun, which we shoot much more often at that distance, I think we're around 13.5 mils with Noslers, and the TMKs shaved nearly a mil off of that.
Excuse me if I missed it, but what is the barrel length and velocity on your bolt gun?
13.5 mils would be x 3.438 = 45.2 MOA.
So extra velocity of the 75 with CFE223 must help, it just does not keep it supersonic.
I found Litz predicted just .187 G7 with the 75 Hornady, so even at 2900 fps it runs out of snap at about 950 yds.
thanks for your help.
The 20 inch Bolt gun had this :
725 yrds 6.6 mils
1,000 I didn't write it down last time
1072 14 mils
1092 14.5 mils
16 inch gas gun AR15
725 8mils
1000 15mils
1088 17 mils
The time of year and temperature can change dope by a mil on any given Sunday.
Our Hottest "Turbo" load took the77's 2889fps XBR
H322 2663
in the 16 inch gas
2527 fps
All this data was regular SMK's 77 grain
So extra velocity of the 75 with CFE223 must help, it just does not keep it supersonic.
Staying super doesn't matter for us at all. The 77 SMKs and Nosler CCs zing right through transonic without missing a beat. We don't have harsh cross winds however.
Did y'all chrono them? I was gettin ~40fps more than SMK's due to the need to seat them deeper.
Y'all should try to 69gr TMK's too. I was amazed at how much better TMK's shoot than SMK's.
What COAL are you loading the 69gr TMKs to? I've always loaded the SMKs to 2.235 as stated in the Hodgdon manual and been happy. But the 69gr TMKs look like they need to be loaded to 2.25x due to the ogive(?) shape. Even at 2.25x, the 69gr bullet looks like it's in deep.
I've got 200 77gr TMKs and 200 69gr TMKs to load up and try on coyotes. I was talking to a guy that shot a coyote with the 77gr TMK and was very happy with it.
What COAL are you loading the 69gr TMKs to?
Although not Onyx Z... I load them to 2.250" like the regular SMKs. They do look somewhat like SS109s in the ogive area.
What COAL are you loading the 69gr TMKs to?
~2.255" just like my regular SMK's. They look like they're seated way too deep, but it works well. The ogive actually reminds me of the Hornady 53gr V-Max, which also has an impressive BC (.290).
Markm,
I just checked the Hodgen reloading site as you no doubt have long ago.
I see that three powders get the 77 grain close to or slightly over 2,800 fps from a 24 inch bolt gun.
I doubt if the link works because of filters I asked for but here it is. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
CFE223 24.3 gr 2,811 fps, 53,500 psi.
BLC-2 24.9 gr, 2,804 fps, 50,700 psi
IMR 8208 23.2 gr, 2792 fps, 55,000 psi.
I know you have settled on IMR 8208 and am wodering if you tried the other ones?
I thought I'd reload my CBC brass with one of these. I have had good luck with CFE223 and BLC-2 for long range 75 grain bullets. Not as accurate as some but by far faster.
Those numbers make sense. With Marks IMR8208 load with 23.8 grains, we achieved 2788fps out of a 20 inch barrel. This was our very hot batch. We had one batch of IMR that was extra hot if you will.
Normal if you will went 2728. So those book numbers seem on target. Be interesting to see what you get.
Those numbers make sense. With Marks IMR8208 load with 23.8 grains, we achieved 2788fps out of a 20 inch barrel. This was our very hot batch. We had one batch of IMR that was extra hot if you will.
Normal if you will went 2728. So those book numbers seem on target. Be interesting to see what you get.
I got ~2,720 with the "normal" XBR TMK load from an 18" barrel. ~2,700 with SMK's.
I haven't chrono'd BH Mk262 Mod 1 yet, but my Dope tells me it's Humpin' somewhere around 2,690 fps out of my 16" Noveske... that sound about right to you guys? I haven't been able to get ahold of any BH 5.56 TMK yet... would think the speed would basically be identical, if not then super close, albeit with a much higher BC obviously. Mk262 Mod1 has worked splendidly for me out to almost 400y thus far. Would love to try me some 77gr TMK though! Hope it shoots as well or better than its standard 77gr brother!
I only took it out to 385y one time, via NF 2.5-10, shot one 5 shot group, and I was quite pleased with it... this Rifle has been wearing a T2 Micro since:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m119/HD1911/Mobile%20Uploads/90A5C2CC-E9FA-4038-9D34-881D57ADB86A_zpssajpstlj.jpg
That's knocking stuff down at distance with basic AR platform. It's good stuff. Good shooting with premium factory ammo. If your getting 2,700 fps with 77's, life is good. You can do a lot with that.
Thanks Man! I was beside myself. I was just shooting groups all day @ 100y and thought, why not take it to the end of the Range (385y). I guesstimated 2,690fps based on what I had heard 18" were doin (2740ish) and plugged it all into KAC Bulletflight on my IPhone... I think it called for 2.1 Mil Elevation and I happened to actually call the wind correctly (don't usually get it right on the first try), which I think I held like .4 Mil... and it worked like a champ!
I think that came out to like a 3.8" 5 shot group or so... that was good enough for me! The one shot high-left screwed me lol... woulda been a much tighter group.
But yeah, I was soo pumped that I didn't wanna ruin the day (was at the end of my shooting session) by attempting to do it again... I thought, I can hang my hat on that!
But yeah, Noveske 16" Stainless (Intermediate Length Gas, 3groove, 1:8 Twist), NF 2.5-10x42, Geissele Super Tricon, BH Mk262 Mod 1, on a Atlas Bipod with a Rear Bag sure got it done... maybe I need to put a dedicated Scope back on this thing and move the T2 Micro to something else.
Pic of Riglet:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m119/HD1911/Mobile%20Uploads/6160F852-3FE1-4636-BB40-959EECE726C9_zpspd1rrtpz.jpg
I know you have settled on IMR 8208 and am wodering if you tried the other ones?
As a general rule, we don't shoot ball powder. (I keep a few blaster barrels that I'll run some ball powder in) Even though there are ball powders out there that yield higher velocities, we stick to extruded powders on the faster burn rate end just because of the luck we've had in accuracy and reliability.
vicious_cb
06-20-15, 20:21
As a general rule, we don't shoot ball powder. (I keep a few blaster barrels that I'll run some ball powder in) Even though there are ball powders out there that yield higher velocities, we stick to extruded powders on the faster burn rate end just because of the luck we've had in accuracy and reliability.
What problems have you had with ball powder?
A lot of people dont like ball powders because of the nitroglycerin. There are some extruded powders that are double base as well, but its not the norm. The addition of nitroglycerin gives added enegry to the powder which causes it to burn hotter. This can accelerate throat erosion. Mostly precision guys are worried about it, but I dont really like to use ball powders for this reason. Markm may have different reason, but generally this is the reason people avoid ball powders, or any double base powders.
That's it. Ball can be harder on barrels. It's probably negligible for most guys, but our shooting is largely prone, long distance stuff. I like to try to run one or two loads that can be shot in any of the guns, so I avoid ball powder most of the time.
Markm-bit of a technical question:do you think the load of 23.4gr XBR/77gr TMK is putting you in 5.56 territory as far as psi goes? I know you shoot it out of a rem700 that most likely has a 223 rem chamber. I've got some clones of your TMK load ready to go, but my barrels are 18"(spr) and 24"(rem700). I'll report the velocities.
Edited to add I'll be working my way up to that load. I also have 10 rounds each of lesser charge weights to ladder my way there.
Markm-bit of a technical question:do you think the load of 23.4gr XBR/77gr TMK is putting you in 5.56 territory as far as psi goes?
Yes. It's been safe enough that I'm not getting any blown primers or anything. But it's a fast powder loaded above Max, so yes. In my experience, you can't match Mk262 velocities with this powder. I was getting some blown primers at 23.8 and still below 262 numbers. So I backed down to 23.4 and haven't had an issue. It's the accuracy that keeps me using it even though there are other options that yield higher velocity.
Yes. It's been safe enough that I'm not getting any blown primers or anything. But it's a fast powder loaded above Max, so yes. In my experience, you can't match Mk262 velocities with this powder. I was getting some blown primers at 23.8 and still below 262 numbers. So I backed down to 23.4 and haven't had an issue. It's the accuracy that keeps me using it even though there are other options that yield higher velocity.
Thanks. Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.
Anyone tried TAC with the Tipped Matchking?
CrazyIrishman
06-22-15, 21:48
Anyone tried TAC with the Tipped Matchking?
I've tried it with the regular match kings , I have not tried it it with the TMK's. I really have only tried the TMK's with h322 and xbr, but from what I've found for the distances I shoot at they are very similar (600 yards or less, where I live in tejas, its rare to be able to ever see further than 300-400 especially while hunting most shooting is inside 200 yards.) Whats your question 556x45?
Crazy Irish,
Thanks for your prompt reply.
My quesiton about TAC is based on Sierra lilsting it as one of two powders that make 2750 fps with the 77 MK. I read recently here or on another normally reliable board that Black Hills used it with the MK also. TAC has the reputation where I live as a go to powder for velocity in 223/556. I have never tried it and was curious about your all's experience.
CrazyIrishman
06-23-15, 19:32
Yes I believe black hills uses tac but it is some type of a proprietary blend, perhaps someone else could chime in but from what I have read its mainly just flash suppressants that have been added to it. As far as Velocity goes... yeah TAC is a powder that will definitely get you into the velocity of loads such as the mk262, but from what I have found, is at the cost of accuracy. This may not necessarily be the case for others but it has been for me. I do like to use Tac for practice ammo but as someone else stated earlier in this thread ,is that they do burn hotter so you get added velocity at the trade off of decreased barrel life. But (with extra emphasis on that word) with a quality AR, consistent MOA sized groups with the occasional half MOA group are obtainable with this powder and bullet/s (match king, tipped match king) combination providing you do you part.
vicious_cb
06-23-15, 20:21
Yes I believe black hills uses tac but it is some type of a proprietary blend, perhaps someone else could chime in but from what I have read its mainly just flash suppressants that have been added to it. As far as Velocity goes... yeah TAC is a powder that will definitely get you into the velocity of loads such as the mk262, but from what I have found, is at the cost of accuracy. This may not necessarily be the case for others but it has been for me. I do like to use Tac for practice ammo but as someone else stated earlier in this thread ,is that they do burn hotter so you get added velocity at the trade off of decreased barrel life. But (with extra emphasis on that word) with a quality AR, consistent MOA sized groups with the occasional half MOA group are obtainable with this powder and bullet/s (match king, tipped match king) combination providing you do you part.
Im pretty sure BH uses a propriety non-canister grade powder, probably St.Marks powder to be exact to achieve their temperature stability.
CrazyIrishman
06-23-15, 22:07
Im pretty sure BH uses a propriety non-canister grade powder, probably St.Marks powder to be exact to achieve their temperature stability.
Thank you for chiming in and correcting me , I cant remember where I heard that about TAC but it did seem a little to good to be true. Also found this on St.Marks page above a picture which has some Winchester, Hodgdon, and Ramshot powder canisters in the background among other things.
" St. Marks Powder has a strong technical base to help with product applications as well as recommending and tailoring, if appropriate, specially blended propellants for specific applications."
CrazyIrishman
06-23-15, 22:07
Double tap. My apologies
Where are you guys buying your tipped matchkings from?
And where Black Hills ammo?
I am curious to compare them to the CBC 77 grain MK's I ordered.
Where are you guys buying your tipped matchkings from?
And where Black Hills ammo?
I am curious to compare them to the CBC 77 grain MK's I ordered.
Midway has the bullets on sale right now for a steal @ $108/500.
Midway has the bullets on sale right now for a steal @ $108/500.
Thanks for the heads up just ordered 1000.
XxWoodsHunterxX
06-24-15, 23:51
Thanks for the heads up just ordered 1000.
What are they normally?
What are they normally?
$140/500 on Widener's right now. Midway is typically higher than everyone else.
77gr TMK's for $100.37 and 69gr TMK's for $93.66 on Midway right now.
This is unbelievable.
Has anyone tried Norma 203-B with the 77 garain SMK or Tipped SMK?
The new Norma manual shows it making 2900 fps from a 16 inch AR.
Hard to believe.
203-B is also one of their preferred powders for the 175 SMK in 308.
Has anyone tried Norma 203-B with the 77 garain SMK or Tipped SMK?
The new Norma manual shows it making 2900 fps from a 16 inch AR.
Hard to believe.
203-B is also one of their preferred powders for the 175 SMK in 308.
I haven't tried 203-B, however, there are persistent rumors that 203-B is the same powder as Alliant RL-15.
I found this info on the Norma site.
http://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Components/Powder/
But dont know how that compares to RL15.
I can tell you that in a large capacity case like the 450 Ackley or 450 Dakota, that 203 and RL15 seem to be identical. But those are large capacity cases with a big bore, so the ctgs have a relatively low expansion ratio due to bore size. Real test would be in a small bore high capacity case like a 22-250 Improved or similar.
If anyone is reloading the CBC brass I would sure like to hear from you. Id like to match the CBC 77's velocity but its going to be hard to finid a combination that makes 2870 fps at 65-100 degrees F and 2835 fps at 50 F like it does.
Has anyone tried Norma 203-B with the 77 garain SMK or Tipped SMK?
The new Norma manual shows it making 2900 fps from a 16 inch AR.
No it most certainly does not. The manual lists a maximum velocity of 2467 FPS from the 16" barreled AR-15.
I haven't tried 203-B, however, there are persistent rumors that 203-B is the same powder as Alliant RL-15.
And loading for hot/high velocity using anything remotely temp sensitive as RL powders is crazy.
Glad I found this thread as I finally got a box of these (500ct). Any new updates from you guys that are shooting these? I'm assuming you all are loading to magazine length?
TraumaPlateDuctTape
10-29-15, 22:44
I think Black Hills may be in trouble if Hornady releases a heavy-grain 5.56 EDL-X round. The TMK's plastic tip probably undergoes at least some melting mid-flight which reduces group consistency, something the EDL-X has fixed.
I think Black Hills may be in trouble if Hornady releases a heavy-grain 5.56 EDL-X round. The TMK's plastic tip probably undergoes at least some melting mid-flight which reduces group consistency, something the EDL-X has fixed.
I kind of doubt it. Given enough demand, hornady would probably just let BH use their bullets to be loaded by BH. They do it with other bullets.
Glad I found this thread as I finally got a box of these (500ct). Any new updates from you guys that are shooting these? I'm assuming you all are loading to magazine length?
I'm having great results loading them to mag length. I charge them with XBR and Wolf SRM primers. I haven't taken the 77gr TMKs out far yet, but the 69gr TMKs give me MOAish accuracy past 400. Given that it is always windy(ie gusty) where I shoot, I'm pretty happy with it.
Nope, they arent making the 223 bullet because the BC is too low.
http://www.hornady.com/support/heat-shield
As mentioned, moderate and low BC tipped bullets (less than .550 G1) are not significantly affected. Case in point: a 22 caliber 50gr V-Max with a conventional polymer tip, fired at 3,700 fps, has a 400 yard radar verified average BC of .232. With a Heat Shield tip, it still had a BC of .232. Similarly, a 7mm 162gr SST has a 500 yard radar verified average BC of .520. When tested with a Heat Shield tip, it only gained a small amount of BC - .532. The .012 increase in BC is too small to matter on this bullet at any distance this bullet would expand on game.
Poly tips aren't an issue for 223 and most 308 which is why Hornady isn't selling the EDL-x.
Regarding loads, anyone have good luck using Varget? That is one of the top accuracy powders Sierra recommends for the SMK and should work similar with the TMK.
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