View Full Version : Free Community College for Everyone!
Eurodriver
01-09-15, 05:57
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/08/pf/college/obama-free-college/
Free education "for those willing to work for it."
That's what President Obama said he would like to see in an announcement the White House posted to Facebook and Vine on Thursday.
He's proposing to make the first two years of community college free.
But it would require both the federal government and the states to split the tab. States would have the option to participate.
I almost thought it was an Onion article at first. Of course "Free" isn't really free, but "Community College paid for with tax increases that far outweigh the excess money you will earn with your 'free' associates degree" is probably not a good sell.
Voodoo_Man
01-09-15, 06:10
I told my wife about this when I read it yesterday.
Her response was not jumping for joy.
**** those of us who paid our own way through college, working 40+ hrs a week and taking a full time semesters worth of credits in order to get a degree. Might as well invalidate the whole thing at this point.
I told my wife about this when I read it yesterday.
Her response was not jumping for joy.
**** those of us who paid our own way through college, working 40+ hrs a week and taking a full time semesters worth of credits in order to get a degree. Might as well invalidate the whole thing at this point.
And those who are still paying even after the fact.. Grrrr
Free two years of college? What a great way to further the enlargement of an already bloated and ineffective university system that is largely ineffective in producing productive workers. I bet Mike Rowe is reeling over this.
Voodoo_Man
01-09-15, 06:53
And those who are still paying even after the fact.. Grrrr
Yep, make it retroactive then, right?
I mean...it's only fair.
The_War_Wagon
01-09-15, 07:25
Because the McDonald's drive-thru and the Wal-Mart stockroom need collej grajuamates, too! :no:
Crow Hunter
01-09-15, 07:33
This is based on a Tennessee idea. (My home state)
Of course, what has not been mentioned (and I am sure it is a simple oversight:rolleyes:) is that this is paid for by the TN Lottery.
When they instituted the lottery several years ago it was done stipulating that the money could only be used for education related stuff. It started out with the Hope scholarship. Now, due to the plethora of people in TN who can't do math, they literally have so much money that they don't know what to do with it and they have to spend it on higher education by law. So they are paying for anyone to have 2 years of community college. Looking at the number of scratch $5 and $20 off tickets that are laying around in parking lots locally after everyone gets their crazy check money, I figure it will become a 4 year college education soon.
The lottery predominantly "taxes" the poor and those that can't do math. So it is a regressive tax of the worst kind and no "progressive" would ever support it.
There is no societal benefit to giving 2 year associates degrees in Administrative Office Management, Computer Systems Operations and Maintenance, or Business Administration. All "degrees" offered by my local Community College.
I don't have a problem if they want to institute a national lottery and let the poor and the dumb pay for it but I don't want to use MY tax money to pay for someone to go and learn how to answer a phone or use a computer.
With two years left in his last term, This impostor of a president is determined to do as much damage as he possibly can. This just another example.
With two years left in his last term, This impostor of a president is determined to do as much damage as he possibly can. This just another example.
This is really just a political stunt because the republican congress won't have anything to do with it, I think, and he's trying to posture for democrats for 2016.
This is based on a Tennessee idea. (My home state)
Of course, what has not been mentioned (and I am sure it is a simple oversight:rolleyes:) is that this is paid for by the TN Lottery.
When they instituted the lottery several years ago it was done stipulating that the money could only be used for education related stuff. It started out with the Hope scholarship. Now, due to the plethora of people in TN who can't do math, they literally have so much money that they don't know what to do with it and they have to spend it on higher education by law. So they are paying for anyone to have 2 years of community college. Looking at the number of scratch $5 and $20 off tickets that are laying around in parking lots locally after everyone gets their crazy check money, I figure it will become a 4 year college education soon.
The lottery predominantly "taxes" the poor and those that can't do math. So it is a regressive tax of the worst kind and no "progressive" would ever support it.
There is no societal benefit to giving 2 year associates degrees in Administrative Office Management, Computer Systems Operations and Maintenance, or Business Administration. All "degrees" offered by my local Community College.
I don't have a problem if they want to institute a national lottery and let the poor and the dumb pay for it but I don't want to use MY tax money to pay for someone to go and learn how to answer a phone or use a computer.
Similar set up in NC. Odd how the lottery money was supposed to be all for education, yet the libs still complain that education (everything from pre-K to public schools to the state college system) needs more money.
This is really just a political stunt because the republican congress won't have anything to do with it, I think, and he's trying to posture for democrats for 2016.
I agree. I bet, ideally though, Hussein the shit stain would love to just keep the FSA in school in perpetuity as long as they keep voting full Retard.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-15, 09:19
I'm all for it.
Let's pay for it by taxing the crap out of large university endowment funds (ie IVY league schools). That would be even better than having it paid by an tax on the ignorant (lottery).
I do have to say that when it goes over $100mil I buy a couple of tickets. With an extended family as large as mine, any amount less than that will just be a PITA. "Cousin FMCDH won the lottery, I wonder how much I'll get!!!!"
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-15, 09:22
I told my wife about this when I read it yesterday.
Her response was not jumping for joy.
**** those of us who paid our own way through college, working 40+ hrs a week and taking a full time semesters worth of credits in order to get a degree. Might as well invalidate the whole thing at this point.
See, that is the next step. What good is free schooling if it doesn't cover books? Transport? Where are you supposed to live and what to eat?
What great timing! I just paid off a 35k loan for my wife's school today. Thanks Obama!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SilverBullet432
01-09-15, 09:38
So f*ck the rest of us who paid for our college?
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-15, 09:40
Send your kids to community college while the Progressives send their kids to 'prestigious' colleges.
I think a better aspect would be to reinstate the old GI-Bill - four years service, you get four years of schooling, must be used within 10 years. Just change it up and instead of military only make it for public works/community service. For the AA, straight swap, 2 years service for 2 years schooling.
I got out of the service, worked fulltime, and had my degree in 6 years, the last four years I commuted over a 100 miles a day to get to the closest 4-year. Since it took me 4-years of service, and a lot of sacrifice (time and effort) to get to class, I put some effort into my studies. The GI Bill paid tuition and gas money, money I didn't have as a young head of household.
I'd prefer a hand-up, not a hand-out.
(Sarcasm: On)
I think you are all a bunch of racists who care not about the education of our now amnestied illegals who have no other way to get an education. You should all be embarrassed, knowledge is power and every person should be afforded an advanced education regardless of the ever increasing debt we will continue to kick to the next generation. The free shit army is hear and we getting geared so join or shut your mouth.
(Sarcasm: Off)
Averageman
01-09-15, 10:13
Isn't this a complete validation of the failure of our current K-12 system?
If you took all of the cream off of the top of what we are currently funding and went straight to education and job training why couldn't you get it done by 12th grade?
An additional two years, essentially 13th and 14th grade are not the answer to this problem, the problem lies in the bloated union run system that is driven to the "No Child Left Behind" mindset.
I saved for years, putting hundreds of dollars away every month to send my child to school. The whole way through H.S. I pushed him to take core education classes and prepare himself to go to College. In the meantime, we get this.
SilverBullet432
01-09-15, 10:41
Slightly off topic but still relevant: so it's basically like barry's immigration reform. Fu*k everyone else who waited years and over a decade to get their papers (like my parents) lets just give them to everyone!! Where's that oprah meme??
ETA: found it!!
http://i60.tinypic.com/2mm63on.jpg
:sarcastic:
Wait a sec,
Obama's 'Free' Community College Plan Could Cost $34B Per Year
http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamas-free-community-college-plan-could-cost-34b-year_823398.html
How can can something that's free cost money?
I just hope that Texas acts the same as they did with the Medicaid "enhancements" that we were supposed to match.......NO THANK YOU!
Crow Hunter
01-09-15, 11:27
I'm all for it.
Let's pay for it by taxing the crap out of large university endowment funds (ie IVY league schools). That would be even better than having it paid by an tax on the ignorant (lottery).
I do have to say that when it goes over $100mil I buy a couple of tickets. With an extended family as large as mine, any amount less than that will just be a PITA. "Cousin FMCDH won the lottery, I wonder how much I'll get!!!!"
There is no problem playing the lottery occasionally for fun.
My Mom used to get us $20-30 worth of $1 scratch off tickets at Christmas. We would all sit around and scratch off tickets and see who was the luckiest. It was a lot of fun and I actually looked forward to it every year. We would scratch them off by looking at what the winning was going to be and then scratching off to see if you had won with each person doing theirs in turn. We got pretty good at guessing if it was going to be a winning ticket or not.
Then we would keep taking the winnings back to the store and getting more tickets to see who could keep winning the longest unless someone actually won more than $5 or free tickets.
I am talking about the people that I work with and others that see buying lottery tickets as an "investment" spending $100+/month because "someone has to win!". :suicide:
This is based on a Tennessee idea. (My home state)
Of course, what has not been mentioned (and I am sure it is a simple oversight:rolleyes:) is that this is paid for by the TN Lottery.
When they instituted the lottery several years ago it was done stipulating that the money could only be used for education related stuff. It started out with the Hope scholarship. Now, due to the plethora of people in TN who can't do math, they literally have so much money that they don't know what to do with it and they have to spend it on higher education by law. So they are paying for anyone to have 2 years of community college. Looking at the number of scratch $5 and $20 off tickets that are laying around in parking lots locally after everyone gets their crazy check money, I figure it will become a 4 year college education soon.
The lottery predominantly "taxes" the poor and those that can't do math. So it is a regressive tax of the worst kind and no "progressive" would ever support it.
There is no societal benefit to giving 2 year associates degrees in Administrative Office Management, Computer Systems Operations and Maintenance, or Business Administration. All "degrees" offered by my local Community College.
I don't have a problem if they want to institute a national lottery and let the poor and the dumb pay for it but I don't want to use MY tax money to pay for someone to go and learn how to answer a phone or use a computer.
These kinds of promises that "we will only use lottery money" make me laugh. Governmental spending doesn't work that way, it is a farce said for marketing purposes. Any government program promise like that doesn't stay within its boundaries, especially after a number of years pass.
So now we will have the same idiotic federal meddling in community colleges that we have in k-12?? Yeah, that will turn out great.
This pretty much validates the claim that k-12 in this country sucks so bad that the average person graduating from HS isn't capable of doing anything but maybe wiping his ass without smearing shit on their hands (maybe). To make up for the FUBAR 12 years of public education we are going to double down and add 2 more years of stupidification. AWESOME.
Next thing you know, it will be the "community college child no left behind"...where the can't fail them. Just diminishes EVERY OTHER degree...and more and more 'college' graduates will be working the McDonalds counter, wondering why they don't deserve $15/hour...
Averageman
01-09-15, 13:40
So now we will have the same idiotic federal meddling in community colleges that we have in k-12?? Yeah, that will turn out great.
This pretty much validates the claim that k-12 in this country sucks so bad that the average person graduating from HS isn't capable of doing anything but maybe wiping his ass without smearing shit on their hands (maybe). To make up for the FUBAR 12 years of public education we are going to double down and add 2 more years of stupidification. AWESOME.
I cannot help but think that if someone looked closely at the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality of the current system it could be fixed and you could send someone out in to society that could actually be productive and capable of holding down a job at 18. There might be a lot of hurt feelings and gnashing of soccer mom teeth, but it could be done.
The current philosophy allows for adolescence to continue in to someone's early thirties. That flies in the face of the values that made our country strong and capable.
Two more years of High School will only prolong the pain.
ramairthree
01-09-15, 15:37
It is a scam.
My MIL used to teach at a college. She taught Algebra and English to "college students."
The exact same English and Algebra people take as freshmen in high school.
Some would go on to a worthless degree largely funded by student loans.
Most would drop out and default on their student loans. Government stuck with the bill, but college gets paid.
I have also seen people burning Army tuition assistance money on college courses, getting English class credits covering The Canterbury Tales and MacBeth at about the level I did in 8th Grade. Granted, these were productive members of society, but largely the degrees they earned translated to higher level GS jobs they could get when they got out, so still coming from the same taxpayer pool of money to employ them.
Hell, I knew a guy that got an internet doctorate in homeland security and thought he should get a GS15 job and people call him doctor.
Just a ton of nonsense in degree creep and the meaning of a degree has gone on.
Much of it sadly at the expense of the tax payer.
I just hope that Texas acts the same as they did with the Medicaid "enhancements" that we were supposed to match.......NO THANK YOU!
Well Texas did grant amnesty to cupcakes so ya never know where progressivism may pop up.... Lol
next step forgive all student loans for college !
next step forgive all student loans for college !
I think that's coming anyway, Right about September-October 2016. Gotta get Hillary elected somehow..
It is a scam.
My MIL used to teach at a college. She taught Algebra and English to "college students."
The exact same English and Algebra people take as freshmen in high school.
Some would go on to a worthless degree largely funded by student loans.
Most would drop out and default on their student loans. Government stuck with the bill, but college gets paid.
Don't forget about the too big to fail banks making a profit on the interest on those loans. The same too big to fail banks that liberal academia chastises in their classrooms. Behind the scenes those too big too fail banks gave MORE money to Obamas campaign than any other candidate in history. In return Obama gave them the first time home buyer tax credit which led to more home loans. Cash for clunkers that led to more auto loans and simultaneously screwing over the little guy, Obama says he goes to bat for, by way of taking good used vehicles off the market that the poor can only afford. Supply and demand. Less used vehicles, prices go up. That also screws over the small business used car dealers raising their costs.
Back to student loans. Tuition costs only sharply rose when government got involved guaranteeing access to student loans, which is why our parents could work at McDonalds back in the 70s and pay for college. You can pretty much guarantee that every time government gets involved in anything, costs will skyrocket.
Sad to say but the only true free market "business" that exists anymore is the illegal drug trade, subject to supply and demand. No minimum wage. No government minimum mandates, etc.
Rant over.
Don't forget about the too big to fail banks making a profit on the interest on those loans. The same too big to fail banks that liberal academia chastises in their classrooms. Behind the scenes those too big too fail banks gave MORE money to Obamas campaign than any other candidate in history. In return Obama gave them the first time home buyer tax credit which led to more home loans. Cash for clunkers that led to more auto loans and simultaneously screwing over the little guy, Obama says he goes to bat for, by way of taking good used vehicles off the market that the poor can only afford. Supply and demand. Less used vehicles, prices go up. That also screws over the small business used car dealers raising their costs.
Back to student loans. Tuition costs only sharply rose when government got involved guaranteeing access to student loans, which is why our parents could work at McDonalds back in the 70s and pay for college. You can pretty much guarantee that every time government gets involved in anything, costs will skyrocket.
Sad to say but the only true free market "business" that exists anymore is the illegal drug trade, subject to supply and demand. No minimum wage. No government minimum mandates, etc.
Rant over.
"Nailed it."
http://at.progressive.com/uploads/fun-and-entertainment/520x646_Commercial_Handpuppet.jpg
When are we going to get 'free ammo'? I might be in for that one...
It was said earlier in the thread, I see this as nothing more than setting up the Republican Congress for 'failure' in 2016. They will look like the bad guys for saying no to advancing education for the masses and that will reflect on the Republican Presidential candidate.
Eurodriver
01-10-15, 10:10
Don't forget about the too big to fail banks making a profit on the interest on those loans. The same too big to fail banks that liberal academia chastises in their classrooms. Behind the scenes those too big too fail banks gave MORE money to Obamas campaign than any other candidate in history. In return Obama gave them the first time home buyer tax credit which led to more home loans. Cash for clunkers that led to more auto loans and simultaneously screwing over the little guy, Obama says he goes to bat for, by way of taking good used vehicles off the market that the poor can only afford. Supply and demand. Less used vehicles, prices go up. That also screws over the small business used car dealers raising their costs.
Back to student loans. Tuition costs only sharply rose when government got involved guaranteeing access to student loans, which is why our parents could work at McDonalds back in the 70s and pay for college. You can pretty much guarantee that every time government gets involved in anything, costs will skyrocket.
Sad to say but the only true free market "business" that exists anymore is the illegal drug trade, subject to supply and demand. No minimum wage. No government minimum mandates, etc.
Rant over.
Please, continue with your rant, we need more posts like this.
While opposed in principle, at this point, really, what the hell difference could it possibly make?
http://www.futuretimeline.net/subject/images/us-debt-graph-2020.jpg
While opposed in principle, at this point, really, what the hell difference could it possibly make?
The worst part about that graph is that the 2015-2020 projections are based on GAO estimates, or something similar, which wildly underestimates how close to exponential that growth in deficit will be. Considering that government is likely to be funded by CR-omni-shot-bus means for that duration of time whilst coming to terms with masked actual cost of PPACA, then clearing 25T in that timeframe is remarkably plausible.
lethal dose
01-10-15, 16:03
I suppose my wife will be refunded her $100k+? Sounds like a plan to me!
wonder how many will try to say well I dont want to go to school just give me the money :)
wonder how many will try to say well I dont want to go to school just give me the money :)
Isn't that pretty much what's already happening?
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-10-15, 17:45
I'm all for CC education. In an economy where you will not only have more than one job, but many careers, the ability to reinvent and re-educate yourself is a real benefit. For all the High Schoolers that aren't prepared for a four year institution- why waste all that time and effort, and set people up for failure.
What I have a problem with is the hand out to the Free Crap Army- that and the step is gets us closer to govt control creeping into post K12 education.
skywalkrNCSU
01-10-15, 23:04
I suppose my wife will be refunded her $100k+? Sounds like a plan to me!
If your wife spent $100k on community college she got screwed pretty bad
I'm already paying for enough crap that I can't personally use. I don't think I can afford to send anyone to college, not even community college.
The good news is once I no longer have anything, I won't have anything to lose.
I suppose my wife will be refunded her $100k+? Sounds like a plan to me!
No **** right? By the same logic, the upcoming desperate shortage of medical professionals (MDs, especially those outside family practice; PA's, RN's, etc.) should justify paying tuition for those. The justification for that is much easier, since these are individuals who chose to devote their career to helping people, and give up years (up to 14yr with many specialty paths) of earning potential to acquire a specialized and high demand skillset, only to be met with a really alluring combination of crushing debt AND maximum progressive tax rates because why should somebody working 60+ hours/week get to keep half of what they've earned?... Forgot to mention that tort reform is too much to ask for, so let's add really absurd malpractice insurance costs on top of that.
I've given up trying to debate retards on facebook for this one. The closest thing to an intelligent answer is 'it works somewhere else', and trying to explain why that's different just flies well over their ability to install coherent electrical impulses into their cranium.
Reagans Rascals
01-11-15, 02:16
This is based on a Tennessee idea. (My home state)
Of course, what has not been mentioned (and I am sure it is a simple oversight:rolleyes:) is that this is paid for by the TN Lottery.
When they instituted the lottery several years ago it was done stipulating that the money could only be used for education related stuff. It started out with the Hope scholarship. Now, due to the plethora of people in TN who can't do math, they literally have so much money that they don't know what to do with it and they have to spend it on higher education by law. So they are paying for anyone to have 2 years of community college. Looking at the number of scratch $5 and $20 off tickets that are laying around in parking lots locally after everyone gets their crazy check money, I figure it will become a 4 year college education soon.
The lottery predominantly "taxes" the poor and those that can't do math. So it is a regressive tax of the worst kind and no "progressive" would ever support it.
There is no societal benefit to giving 2 year associates degrees in Administrative Office Management, Computer Systems Operations and Maintenance, or Business Administration. All "degrees" offered by my local Community College.
I don't have a problem if they want to institute a national lottery and let the poor and the dumb pay for it but I don't want to use MY tax money to pay for someone to go and learn how to answer a phone or use a computer.
FL has a similar policy.... Bought and paid for buy the lotto...
its called the Bright Futures Scholarship..
graduate hs with a 3.0 and get a 75% scholarship to any state school
graduate hs with a 3.5 and get a 100% scholarship to any state school...
which IMO is a good plan.. merit based funding, not just for anyone that wants to be a dental tech or a cosmetologist..
lethal dose
01-11-15, 05:14
Nah. University. Just makin' a point.
I just read there will be free Beer and Weed for the students as well! :eek:
one half will do that while living off rich mom and dad
the other half will drive to work in there free cars where they get paid $22 a hour to flip burgers
both sides talking on there free cell phone using food stamps to party
I just read there will be free Beer and Weed for the students as well! :eek:
"I didn't get a free education so neither should you" - the attitude that will sink a generation.
I payed for school all the way up to my PhD work, but you know what? I won't bitch. Education creates a skilled workforce that creates demand for jobs in the US, reduces poverty, and hence crime, as well as lowering birth rates. BTW, you can learn to be an automechanic or welder at CC these days. They act as trade schools in many respects.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
I swear, if you guys were in charge there wouldn't be a GI bill.
"I didn't get a free education so neither should you" - the attitude that will sink a generation.
I payed for school all the way up to my PhD work, but you know what? I won't bitch. Education creates a skilled workforce that creates demand for jobs in the US, reduces poverty, and hence crime, as well as lowering birth rates. BTW, you can learn to be an automechanic or welder at CC these days. They act as trade schools in many respects.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
I swear, if you guys were in charge there wouldn't be a GI bill.
Damn moochers! :mad:
"I didn't get a free education so neither should you" - the attitude that will sink a generation.
I payed for school all the way up to my PhD work, but you know what? I won't bitch. Education creates a skilled workforce that creates demand for jobs in the US, reduces poverty, and hence crime, as well as lowering birth rates. BTW, you can learn to be an automechanic or welder at CC these days. They act as trade schools in many respects.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
I swear, if you guys were in charge there wouldn't be a GI bill.
With regard to GI Bill, it's quid-pro-quo; I serve 'n' years, they pay for 'x' school. I have not seen how this would work that way. As for paying for public education, we homeschool...the morality of public school aside I do not think paying for my kids' education should be on your dime. Don't even get me started on the scam of higher education in the US.
It's not about whether or not I (or anyone else) got a "free education"; rather, it's about whether it's morally and economically justifiable to offer (not) free education in the first place.
Welders, HVAC mechanics, Electricians, Auto Mechanics, Plumbers, Carpenters, Pipe Fitters and on and on are folks we need.
So you have a degree in Art History? Sorry, there are no openings for art curators, but if you can fix my broken A.C. I have just the job for you.
Oh, you have trouble cutting your toe nails? Sorry, no job for you...
If we're going to have no cost to the student welfare, I hope it includes trade craft.
We've enough bullshit degrees for those who can't do anything but talk...
Averageman
01-12-15, 15:14
I think we would be far better off revamping the whole current system and starting over.
If you cannot educate someone to the point where they have a skill and an ability to work within the boundaries of modern life in 13 years, why will 2 more fix it?
I would agree with you that we need tradesmen, but at the same time we need to look at why we cannot currently teach Math and English. As much as I need HVAC guys to work on my stuff an Engineer designed the system, the tools they use to fix it and the truck they drove to the job.
I don't think we currently can teach mathematics in the system we are using now.
"I didn't get a free education so neither should you" - the attitude that will sink a generation.
I payed for school all the way up to my PhD work, but you know what? I won't bitch. Education creates a skilled workforce that creates demand for jobs in the US, reduces poverty, and hence crime, as well as lowering birth rates. BTW, you can learn to be an automechanic or welder at CC these days. They act as trade schools in many respects.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
I swear, if you guys were in charge there wouldn't be a GI bill.
This is why my counter-proposal that took me a whopping 20 seconds to figure out was to have federal repayment of student loans for two years worth of education simultaneously with the first two years of employment - at least this way, we're generating college educated people who are working, which hopefully persuades enough of them to actually pursue marketable degrees through education. As it stands right now, subsidizing for-profit two-year basketweaving isn't going to put anybody to work (to be fair, basketweaving at least produces a marketable skill, a two-year certificate in art appreciation, pre-sociology, or 'computer technology' don't consistently product graduates with a real-world ability to create anything but carbon dioxide and sewage). There's no way to legislate bullshit degrees, but predicating subsidization on at least being employed in SOME capacity would go a long way towards that, and leave intact the accountability mechanism that students won't pay out of pocket for a degree that won't give them a marketable skillset (which the current proposal doesn't meaningfully address).
I realize I'm not exactly median intellect material, but if I can come up with a conclusively better proposal in less than the time required to void my bowels, then that piece of legislation is a turd.
well look at most of the current generation in school ! wont sink it will make them learn life is tough and you have to work for things and not handed to you if anything it will make them learn to swim !
"I didn't get a free education so neither should you" - the attitude that will sink a generation.
I payed for school all the way up to my PhD work, but you know what? I won't bitch. Education creates a skilled workforce that creates demand for jobs in the US, reduces poverty, and hence crime, as well as lowering birth rates. BTW, you can learn to be an automechanic or welder at CC these days. They act as trade schools in many respects.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
I swear, if you guys were in charge there wouldn't be a GI bill.
"I didn't get a free education so neither should you" - the attitude that will sink a generation.
I payed for school all the way up to my PhD work, but you know what? I won't bitch. Education creates a skilled workforce that creates demand for jobs in the US, reduces poverty, and hence crime, as well as lowering birth rates. BTW, you can learn to be an automechanic or welder at CC these days. They act as trade schools in many respects.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
I swear, if you guys were in charge there wouldn't be a GI bill.
My complaint have incredibly little to do with not having gotten a free ride for 2 years. In actuality this program would save me piles of cash when my son gets college age. I still think it's a crappy idea.
While we argue that our university systems are bastions of liberal asshats IMO it's still one of the best systems in the world. Our primary and secondary Ed system was acceptable for a while as well. Decades of idiotic federal and other government meddling has truly FUBAR'd it. Why would anyone wish to invite more government meddling in the one system still capable of generating quality folks?? Do you honestly believe that all Uncle a Sugar is going to ask for is a good GPA? No, we will have the equivalent of No Child Left Behind and Diversity and God knows what other stuoidity.
Whoever suggested that we offer up tuition/loan forgiveness based on employment status has a good idea there. Set up a schedule for loan reimbursements based on years worked. At least we would be funding tax payers with our tax dollars.
Whats the difference between this and spending money on public education?
The difference is the amount of money taken from me in property taxes doubling and the related increase in my mortgage payment. People need to stop picking my pocket.
That you would compare free community college to the GI Bill (where people serve in the military in EXCHANGE for college) speaks volumes. You want to go to school for free? Well join the military and get one of those free college programs they have. Or work your ass off and get grades high enough to qualify for a scholarship.
Until then I think I'm entitled to a FSA tax relief REFUND for money taken from me for various government programs. So how about for two years of employment 5% of your check gets taken out to send to people like me?
This is why my counter-proposal that took me a whopping 20 seconds to figure out was to have federal repayment of student loans for two years worth of education simultaneously with the first two years of employment - at least this way, we're generating college educated people who are working, which hopefully persuades enough of them to actually pursue marketable degrees through education. As it stands right now, subsidizing for-profit two-year basketweaving isn't going to put anybody to work (to be fair, basketweaving at least produces a marketable skill, a two-year certificate in art appreciation, pre-sociology, or 'computer technology' don't consistently product graduates with a real-world ability to create anything but carbon dioxide and sewage). There's no way to legislate bullshit degrees, but predicating subsidization on at least being employed in SOME capacity would go a long way towards that, and leave intact the accountability mechanism that students won't pay out of pocket for a degree that won't give them a marketable skillset (which the current proposal doesn't meaningfully address).
I realize I'm not exactly median intellect material, but if I can come up with a conclusively better proposal in less than the time required to void my bowels, then that piece of legislation is a turd.
Employment in a specified field of study for specific degrees should be a requisite. Even then, all "jobs" in a specified field would be a really broad category. I am a flight instructor using my BS in an aviation field. I got my W-2 from 2014 and the piddly amount of money I made doesn't justify the money spent on my degree and I went into it with my eyes wide open. I don't know if 2 years of employment in a field would be a good idea considering many jobs like mine don't produce the type of wealth addition to the economy to justify the cost. Personally, I think that a person shouldn't be repaid more than a job they get considering my specific case.
My pre-wife is looking into loan repayment programs for her MD and those aren't funded by tax payer funds, mostly, but by municipalities that need doctors. This is as it should b . A town needs a doctor, so the demand goes up and their compensation package includes some type of incentive for working there.
As good as 2 years of work for 2 years of college sounds good, I don't think it would help matters much since tax payers would be footing the bill for a persons bad decisions. I do consider my degree choice a bad decision even though it makes me potentially more employable in the future in specific circles.
People need to stop picking my pocket.
This exactly.
It all sounds just great until you figure out how we're going to pay for it. You don't even need to go any further than that aspect of the discussion.
wildcard600
01-13-15, 07:24
I would much prefer them to get all the government Bs out of college so that the costs would return to levels where someone might actually just be able to work their way through college. But we all know that of the parties involved it would be the colleges that would be most resisitant to this idea.
Eurodriver
01-13-15, 07:31
I would much prefer them to get all the government Bs out of college so that the costs would return to levels where someone might actually just be able to work their way through college. But we all know that of the parties involved it would be the colleges that would be most resisitant to this idea.
Of course! There are no shortage of examples that prove easy government financing = higher prices.
FHA anyone? Oh how frequently I see people unable to close on a home because their lender requires them to fix a $900 repair on the property and they can't afford it.
Meanwhile, the guy that offered less in cash has moved on. Imagine how much housing prices would drop (and be more affordable) if everyone had to put 20% down and mortgages weren't insured by FNMA.
I thought requiring money down and proof of income on the financing of a home is racist? No?
Must have been asleep and missed the past 10 years. Funny how things change.
Eurodriver
01-13-15, 08:38
I thought requiring money down and proof of income on the financing of a home is racist? No?
Must have been asleep and missed the past 10 years. Funny how things change.
I have a side business that deals primarily with Fannie Mae, and some of the stuff I see is unbelievable. People calling listing agents asking "Yo dawg, can I use my Section 8 to buy dat?". Or "How many bedrooms it has? My check pays $1100 a month but it has ta' be 3 bedrooms"
I see houses that were just purchased 4 years ago for $65,000 already foreclosed and torn to shit. I mean, hell, it takes Fannie Mae at least 6 months to a year after the owner has stopped making payments to take possession. Did they make any of those $300/month mortgage payments?
But by far, and in keeping with this thread's idea, the most significant problems come from buyers having no money and using FHA or VA financing. I've seen cash buyers all day long for a house at $160,000, but some asshole with FHA financing who only has $8000 to his name comes in and offers $200,000. He can do that because he's only paying his tiny down payment and "What's another couple hundred bucks a month?"
Now when the house sells for $200,000, other houses in that neighborhood that get listed will be at $200,000+ when their real value is $160,000. And the only reason for those inflated prices are government insured mortgages and mortgage programs. It's like nothing was learned from 2008, and eventually that bubble will hit student loans/higher education.
It is not sustainable long-term for a state university with a 400 seat auditorium, paying that professor $100,000 a year, to charge each student $600 for that class (plus tech fees, parking, dorm rooms, meal plans, and a slew of other expensive things)
Averageman
01-13-15, 10:23
So how about the parents who scrimped and saved for years to send their kids to College?
The money is sitting there building slightly in interest and being added to by the sacrifice and care of someone trying to see that their kid gets ahead. "No vacation, little Jimmy needs an education." So all of that now means nothing, along with the kids who struggled to get any kind of scholarship to help themselves. Now all of that means nothing because he has a phone and a pen.
The idea that sacrifice and diligence can be offset by those who just show up with a FSA T-Shirt and a plan to be a future community organizer is just wrong on too many levels.
but they might still need to do that because most likely certain people wont get free school ! only certain people or illegal immigrants (not the ones who did it legal) and any muslim will get it you know they deserve it
if you are responsible tax payer you most likely wont get it free :)
So how about the parents who scrimped and saved for years to send their kids to College?
The money is sitting there building slightly in interest and being added to by the sacrifice and care of someone trying to see that their kid gets ahead. "No vacation, little Jimmy needs an education." So all of that now means nothing, along with the kids who struggled to get any kind of scholarship to help themselves. Now all of that means nothing because he has a phone and a pen.
The idea that sacrifice and diligence can be offset by those who just show up with a FSA T-Shirt and a plan to be a future community organizer is just wrong on too many levels.
Eurodriver
01-13-15, 14:20
So how about the parents who scrimped and saved for years to send their kids to College?
The money is sitting there building slightly in interest and being added to by the sacrifice and care of someone trying to see that their kid gets ahead. "No vacation, little Jimmy needs an education." So all of that now means nothing, along with the kids who struggled to get any kind of scholarship to help themselves. Now all of that means nothing because he has a phone and a pen.
The idea that sacrifice and diligence can be offset by those who just show up with a FSA T-Shirt and a plan to be a future community organizer is just wrong on too many levels.
I read your post, and you speak the truth,
But to suggest otherwise is rather uncouth.
After all its the poor who struggle
And you just saved by learning to juggle.
The white man's disease is something unfair
He'll take your money while you have a seat over there.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-13-15, 14:38
I read your post, and you speak the truth,
But to suggest otherwise is rather uncouth.
After all its the poor who struggle
And you just saved by learning to juggle.
The white man's disease is something unfair
He'll take your money while you have a seat over there.
You are on a roll today with these.
Eurodriver
01-13-15, 19:09
You are on a roll today with these.
It began as some funnys,
I'd love to discuss
But the mods hate stories,
And it'd turn into a fuss.
So for now we'll leave it at me being weird
While I go shave this 3 day old beard.
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