Simple and Inexpensive Alternative To KAK/Thorsden/CAA set up?

[Nightvisionary]

I am waiting on parts for two AR pistol builds. I have been following the recent developments with the Sig Brace, Shockwave Blade, and the Thorsden buffer tube cover/CAA saddle/KAK SUPER SIG SB-15 set up. My desire is to have a comfortable cheek rest on the buffer tube. I have very long arms (40 inch long shirt sleeves) so the 7.5 standard tube length is a no-go for me. The Thorsden will give me an extra inch and a half which might be doable. The combination of products appear to be well made and looks like a great option but it seems like a cumbersome process just to get a decent cheek rest. Going this route I would have to purchase a non-standard, proprietary, KAK receiver extension, the Thorsden buffer tube cover, the CAA saddle, and the CAA Saddle adapter kit.

I have read the Thorsden, and Shockwave BATF response letters a couple of times. From these letters I believe I have acertained the following facts:

BATF recognizes the buffer tube/receiver extension is not a stock and does not care if an AR pistol has a standard 4 or 6 position extension or a dedicated smooth AR pistol extension tube. All are acceptable.

BATF approved the Thorsden set up as a cheek rest provided it is not intended to be used as a shoulder stock or redesigned or altered to be used as a shoulder stock.

My conclusion is that a plastic receiver extension/buffer tube cover with the ability to act as a cheek rest is allowable provided it is not designed or intended to be used as a shoulder stock. If my conclusion is correct then what I have illustrated below should be well within the law and intent of BATF regulations. The benefits are that it would give me a comfortable and lightweight cheek rest; using fewer, less expensive parts that are manufactured to a known and proven military standard.




http://i57.tinypic.com/sxg03b.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2m4sgt3.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/112hcsi.jpg

[ABNAK]

If you're going to leave the ability to adjust it in or out I would NOT do it, regardless of cutting away the stock the way you show.

[MistWolf]

Use a rifle RE and put a long foam tube on it

[Nightvisionary]

If you're going to leave the ability to adjust it in or out I would NOT do it, regardless of cutting away the stock the way you show.

I certainly wouldn't have any objections to pinning it permanently in place at a comfortable position or even performing a similar modification on a fixed stock like the Magpul MOE fixed carbine stock as pictured below. What do you think would be the issue with what in effect is an adjustable cheek piece?


http://i61.tinypic.com/20z9u8l.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2h6t4dg.jpg

[Nightvisionary]

Use a rifle RE and put a long foam tube on it

I did consider that as an option but would like to avoid having anything made of foam on a firearm for reasons of durability.

[militarymoron]

My conclusion is that a plastic receiver extension/buffer tube cover with the ability to act as a cheek rest is allowable provided it is not designed or intended to be used as a shoulder stock.

I'd say that altering a stock wouldn't be legal, as you're just modifying something that is designed, manufactured and intended to be used as a shoulder stock.

[MPchinadoll]

I'd say that altering a stock wouldn't be legal, as you're just modifying something that is designed, manufactured and intended to be used as a shoulder stock.

I have been looking into this subject as well. It the stock was cut as the OP has shown above, adjusted to the desired length and then firmly roll pined in place would that still be an issue? My husband an I were talking about it last night. His first AR was back when 1994 AWB was still in effect. The rifle was manufactured with a bayonet lug and a 6 position collapsible stock. Prior to shipping, the bayonet lug was milled off and the stock was extended and roll pinned in place. Two things that were designed to be "pre ban" parts re-purposed into "ban compliant" parts with $10 worth of hardware store items .

Not sure If this is a valid claim. Just thinking, it makes sense to me...but when has the Government made any sense :)

[militarymoron]

It the stock was cut as the OP has shown above, adjusted to the desired length and then firmly roll pined in place would that still be an issue?

if it's going on a rifle, no. if it's going on a pistol, i believe it's an issue. you're putting a stock on a pistol, even though it's been modified.

[HeavyDuty]

If your purpose is to shoot with cheekweld, why would you want it longer than the stock Thordsen length? As it is my cheekbone is at the very front of the saddle when I shoot with my nose about 1" from the CH. I've actually considered modding one to move the saddle a little forward.

[MPchinadoll]

you're putting a stock on a pistol, even though it's been modified.


True. Guess that's how the ATF probably would see it. They don't seem to like modification :rolleyes: which I guess is why the sig brace is going to way it is :(

[jet66]

If your purpose is to shoot with cheekweld, why would you want it longer than the stock Thordsen length? As it is my cheekbone is at the very front of the saddle when I shoot with my nose about 1" from the CH. I've actually considered modding one to move the saddle a little forward.

I like to be about the same distance from the CH, too. I was afraid the cheek weld with the Sig brace was going to be too far forward on mine (standard BCM pistol RE, no spacers) but it turned out to be just right for me.

[Renegade04]

if it's going on a rifle, no. if it's going on a pistol, i believe it's an issue. you're putting a stock on a pistol, even though it's been modified.

This would be correct. What the Nightvisionary is proposing is to take something that is designed and built as a stock and modify it to work as a cheekweld for a pistol is illegal. Like one suggested, he would be better served by using a rifle RE with a foam pad or, better yet, just do it right and spend the money for the Thordsen CAA saddle adapter kit and the CAA Saddle. Things are bad enough with the SB15 issue these days and doing something like the Nightvisionary is proposing to do will only exasperate things. My recommendation is to do it right and do it legally.

[U&A]

I'd say that altering a stock wouldn't be legal, as you're just modifying something that is designed, manufactured and intended to be used as a shoulder stock.

(If its going on a "pistol" )

hit the nail on the head.

The ATF is ALL about "intent".

if it was "intended" to be a stock from the beginning it will probably be considered a stock no matter what modifications in their mind. it is the same for the SB15. it was not "intended" as a stock and not "intended" to be shouldered so it is not breaking any SBR laws regardless of how it is used while firing. In my opinion, if you try to modify a "stock" to fix it on a pistol you are pushing the line to hard.

A good way to think about it is if you think it is legal than you should have no problem sending a letter to the BTAF and see what kind of response you get.

[steyrman13]

(If its going on a "pistol" )

A good way to think about it is if you think it is legal than you should have no problem sending a letter to the BTAF and see what kind of response you get.

PLEASE DON'T!!! they have too much attention on Pistols right now as it stands.

[U&A]

PLEASE DON'T!!! they have too much attention on Pistols right now as it stands.

it is a hypothetical. should have clarified that better. I said a good way to "think" about it. meaning, if I sent one what do I think I would get for a response. thanks for saying that thought. you are right. Don't send them a letter.

[jurassic]

PM me I have a Thordsen setup I'll let go cheap, better than going to jail. I'm done with all the pistol-SBR BS. It's all going away, I'll be buying a stamp for an SBR shortly.

[Chunky_Lover]

sicne the arm brace has received yet another atf letter making sure to say you can not shoulder it

and so many people now selling them cheap

pick one up, cut away the rubber flaps and use it as a copy of the thordson
its similar shape and put your face on it
and I would think that shape, and if you can press it up closer or cut the front a little
keep 1/4 inch buffer tube sticking out the rear its no where being close to a stock as the buffer tube is exposed
but good enough to lay your face on it
the all rubber is quite comfortable depending on how long the tube is or how close your used to being

although I have not yet done this as I want to see what happens later with all these future atf letters if you could pick one up pretty cheap it may make a nice cover