Optic for General Purpose 0-600m AR10 (like a PredatAR 7.62)

[MeanStreaker]

I apologize in advance for another optic thread, but I've been searching and reading here for quite some time and haven't really come across a concise list of recommendations for this specific usage. Or if I did, I soon got overwhelmed and wasn't sure what is old data. :)

What do you recommend for a true general purpose, jack of all trades, short to mid range (let's say precision capable of 2-4" targets out to 200m, then moving up to torso size targets out to 600m), lightweight AR10... something like the PredatAR 7.62? More importantly, why?

Some more info on my personal situation and thoughts:

-- My PredatAR has been wearing a TA11E ACOG (.308 BDC). I'm extremely pleased with the ACOG for "man-sized" targets at those short to mid distances. I have practiced enough to wear I'm pretty quick getting a hit at 7 yards with both eyes open, and have the meager skills to ring 20" steel with it at 500 yards consistently.

-- What the ACOG really lacks, and where I seek improvement, is more precision at some distances. Especially at say the 100-300 meter range. My TA11E uses the chevron reticle. It's really difficult to have pinpoint precision at 200 yards (where sight picture consists of the target somewhere "halfway down and inside" the chevron).

-- I still want this to be at least a somewhat general purpose outfit and not lose too much in 0-50 yard quick target acquisition. So I really like the idea of an optic that has some kind of a red dot at 1x, but in full disclosure, I have zero experience using a "traditionatl" style crosshair type reticle with no dot or donut at those distances. Maybe it's not as much of a liability as I think it would be?

-- Since I have no experience, how much more difficult is it to use, say, a reticle in a 3x-15x variable like I'm using my fixed 3.5x ACOG for 10 yard hits?

--I really don't have $3500 sitting around for the drool-worthy CQBSS, but if there are no other "good enough" options for less than that, so be it.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[masan]

A 2.5-10x Nightforce with their Velocity 600 reticle may be a good option, though while it has an illuminated reticle there is no red dot.

Reticle:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/alt1/967/vel600illum.jpg

If you get into the 3.5x15 you are looking at a big increase in weight, especially w/ Nightforce.

[MeanStreaker]

Good point on the 3.5x15 weight. For my stated purpose, I would *think* a top end of 9x, or even 6x, would probably do the trick. Not sure why I used 3-15 as an example in my post. Would be nice to have that kind of top end for target ID though.

[masan]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?163882-New-Vortex-StrikeEagle-1-6x24mm-3-gun-optic

I have no experience with this particular optic, but when you said 6 power this thread immediately came to mind. The BDC is set up for an AR15 though. Perhaprs Vortex has one for 7.62 as well?

[ccoker]

Nightforce 2.5-10x42 is about perfect for a 308 gasser

http://tacticalgunreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/wpid-20141221_164634-e1419261165122.jpg

[MeanStreaker]

ccoker, can you please elaborate why? Given my goals? Thanks.

[Renegade04]

deleted

[DaveK]

I would think the Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II 1-6X24 would be about ideal. It is very popular in 3 Gun circles where targets typically vary from 10 yds to 200 yds and sometimes reaching as far as 600 yds.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/razor-hd-gen-2-1-6x24-riflescope-with-vmr-2-moa-reticle

There are better scopes out there, but Bang for your buck (for a GP scope), the Vortex 1-6x will be hard to beat.

I like the US optics SR-8c better, but just can't justify it to my checkbook for the price.

[Benito]

Nightforce 2.5-10x42 is about perfect for a 308 gasser

http://tacticalgunreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/wpid-20141221_164634-e1419261165122.jpg

Nice rifle. I have that same optic on my lightweight profile barreled Armalite AR-10A (similar in concept to what the OP describes. It's not heavy at all. Weighs maybe an ounce or 2 more than the NF NXS 2.5-10x32. The 2.5-10 is a decent magnification for shooting 600 meters and in.

[RonboF117]

I've been running the new SWFA 1-4X and like the reticle a lot. It is set up for both 5.56 and 7.62. I've taken to 600 yards with little difficulty and for 100-300 yds you use the diamond. Past that you will need to know your holds. It's not precision but is accurate for half the price and weight of many other scopes. Not ideal for a .308 precision but is certainly doable especially if you are doing torso shots farther out.


"The only thing new is the history you don't know".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CanineCombatives]

Kahles K16i with SM1 reticle has been perfect in this application, I could definitely use more magnification past 400
but this reticle is so precise it's not a problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/OMEGANOX/MK216_zps1362f401.jpg

[TehLlama]

I
What do you recommend for a true general purpose, jack of all trades, short to mid range (let's say precision capable of 2-4" targets out to 200m, then moving up to torso size targets out to 600m), lightweight AR10... something like the PredatAR 7.62? More importantly, why?


If what you need really fits this purpose, the Mk6 in 7.62 reticle is the answer to the question, followed by the Trijicon VCOG, Swaro/Kahles Z6i/16i, and Vortex Razor 1-6. The strength of the CMR-W 7.62 reticle is that you're using a dot as the point of aim @ 200, and then it has a really similar tree BDC for distances beyond that, and with the illumination is super fast in shorter range stuff. The overall weight is pretty nice for the Mk6 (where it beats the Vortex in that category, the VCOG slightly - but mount dependent), and for a PredatAR that would be an excellent match. Read up on the details of that illumination (the Mk6 is a bit head position dependent, but the lit portion of the reticle makes it really quick with the rest of the CMR reticle design), and that's about the biggest drawback for that particular offering. If you do in fact need the 7-50yd performance of a low powered variable for that .308 carbine, then this is the option to look at - if you don't, then I'd look at a mid-range variable.

if the answer you seek is more willing to give up in the contact-50m regime of shooting, then the 2.5-10x options (the NXS-C from NF is the best one, but there are some other competitive offerings there) as that will really give you the legs at 600m, and why it's recommended so far by everybody else in this thread.

[sua175]

If what you need really fits this purpose, the Mk6 in 7.62 reticle is the answer to the question, followed by the Trijicon VCOG, Swaro/Kahles Z6i/16i, and Vortex Razor 1-6. The strength of the CMR-W 7.62 reticle is that you're using a dot as the point of aim @ 200, and then it has a really similar tree BDC for distances beyond that, and with the illumination is super fast in shorter range stuff. The overall weight is pretty nice for the Mk6 (where it beats the Vortex in that category, the VCOG slightly - but mount dependent), and for a PredatAR that would be an excellent match. Read up on the details of that illumination (the Mk6 is a bit head position dependent, but the lit portion of the reticle makes it really quick with the rest of the CMR reticle design), and that's about the biggest drawback for that particular offering. If you do in fact need the 7-50yd performance of a low powered variable for that .308 carbine, then this is the option to look at - if you don't, then I'd look at a mid-range variable.

if the answer you seek is more willing to give up in the contact-50m regime of shooting, then the 2.5-10x options (the NXS-C from NF is the best one, but there are some other competitive offerings there) as that will really give you the legs at 600m, and why it's recommended so far by everybody else in this thread.

I agree that the MK6 is going to be your best option. 6x is plenty of magnification for 600 meters. My ranger buddy can use his mk6 for man size targets out to 1000. I personally think the TMR reticle is the way to go, better for ranging. My sr25 wears a night force 2.5-10 but I bought that before the mk6 came out. The 2.5-10 does the job but it is not as versatile. First thing I am buying out of college is a mk6.

[El Cid]

Im using the Swarovski Z6i with BRT on my PresatAR 762 and couldn't be happier. Here's a write up I did after a class where we shot from contact to 600. I've paid close attention to other variable optics as they hit the market. I haven't seen anything I'd prefer over the Z6i. I am thrilled with it in terms of weight, clarity, illumination, durability, eye relief, FOV, etc.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?153328-AAR-Failure-2-Stop-Consulting-Dual-Role-Carbine-May-31-June-1-2014

I have another Z6i on a 5.56 "Recce" build. If I could only have one optic to do everything I'd choose it every time.

ETA:
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0039_zps879adc2e.jpg

[YO_Doc]

I'm also running a NF 2.5-10X32 on my 308. It is a good balance between size and top end magnification. I just wish that it was a FFP optic.

[MeanStreaker]

OP here.

I'm strongly leaning towards the Vortex Razor HD Gen II 1-6. I've been waiting to see if anything came out at SHOT that would change my mind...

[KUSA]

I'm also running a NF 2.5-10X32 on my 308. It is a good balance between size and top end magnification. I just wish that it was a FFP optic.

I have a "FFP" USO 1.8-10 on an AR. I I like the scope but wish it were SFP.

Although FFP is better for higher magnification scopes such as my BEAST, it really sucks under 6 power. The reticle gets so small it is unusable. As for ranging with the reticle, I'm never going to range under 10 power anyway.

You might think you want FFP in your 2.5-10 but if you had it I would bet you wouldn't like it.

[Matt in TN]

I'll be the oddball here and recommend the Leupold VX-Hog 1-4 non-illuminated. It's simple, cheap (I paid $230 new), one of the lightest scopes made, and has survived just fine on my FAL for about a thousand rounds now. I shoot 3-gun with it and have no problem with up close and fast targets, and had no problem hitting a 500yd torso at the Oklahoma Run N Gun with it earlier this month.

I had very similar requirements to you for a scope, and light weight and simplicity were important to me. This fits the bill.

Only thing I'd change is to make it a true 1x (it's 1.4x) and make the inner reticle a little finer for long shots. For $230 I'm not going to bitch too much though...

Full details are here if you want to know more: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364941

[Turnkey11]

OP here.

I'm strongly leaning towards the Vortex Razor HD Gen II 1-6. I've been waiting to see if anything came out at SHOT that would change my mind...

That was gonna be my suggestion, looking to buy the same optic in the near future. I used to have a US Optics SN-4 1.5-6x DFP on a SCAR 17 that would easily handle E-type silhouettes at 600m.

[corym465]

I run a NF 2.5-10x24, Vortex 1-6x, ACOG TA31F, Vortex Razor Gen I 5-20x50, etc... I've ran many others, to include 1xs.

For your application I think the Vortex 1-6x will be perfect. A little bit of a heavy optic, but well worth every ounce.

[CanineCombatives]

I've been wondering how the new 1-6x they debuted at SHOT is going to compare to the razor in performance, weight etc.
Another dark horse in the 1-6 race is the new one from sig's electro optics lineup, have to wait to see what those bring.