View Full Version : 1-4x and 1-6x optic recommendations
Hello everyone, I have decided I am going to purchase a new optic for my Knights sr-15 that is similar to say the Vortex Viper PST. I mostly target shoot for fun and self defense purposes, I don't participate in 3 gun competitions yet but am considering it in the future. My question is, what scopes do you all recommend that are mid to high end and in the powers I listed in the title? I am also wondering what the additional features and advantages that something like the Vortex Razer HD has over a Viper PST. Thanks for your time.
Singlestack Wonder
01-15-15, 20:33
Do a search for each on the forum and read, read, read.....
Do a search for each on the forum and read, read, read.....
This.
I like the MK6, though.
I went through the same ordeal and ended up buying two MK6.
Failure2Stop
01-15-15, 21:45
Wait until after SHOT. Interesting things coming.
Wait until after SHOT. Interesting things coming.
Yeah, this is the plan I've got. Bought a bobro 20moa 34mm dual lever mount that going to sit until after the SHOT smoke clears and all the options are visible.
Price ceiling?
Exactly. So many options.
So what came out of shot?
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Boba Fett v2
02-05-15, 12:52
So what came out of shot?
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The Leupold D-EVO and LCO.
I haven't heard of your price range, but I own a Vortex Viper PST 1-4, and it has accurate and positive adjustments, clear glass, and has proved to be durable against the normal bumps and bangs. I wouldn't say it's on the same level as a US Optics or the VCOG, but if you are limited in price to $500 or so, you may want to take a look at the PST. Vortex also announced the Strikeforce 1-6, but I haven't seen it yet.
Failure2Stop
02-05-15, 16:45
The Leupold D-EVO and LCO.
And the VX-6 Multi-Gun, with CM-R2 reticle.
Leupolds' recent VX6 multigun with CMR2 has the potential to be very good provided they didn't use the cheap illumination technology ( I have no doubt they used the cheap tech ). Without the tractor beam daylight brightness it will lag behind. A civilian who doesn't shoot tactical matches can't really ask for more than the HDII. The hashes on the TMCQ are practically useless and the PST illumination is only daylight noticeable against dark backgrounds, better than black on black though.
Krampus
Even after shot, the Razor HDII 1-6 is hard to beat. Take your pic on reticle, however the JM-1 will be the one for 3G. They can be had for 1199. 00 ish now.
IndianaBoy
02-08-15, 11:03
Even though it is a touch on the heavy side, I favor the Razor 1-6 with the JM-1 reticle.
The reticle is extremely intuitive. A lot of the more precise mil type reticles are largely lost on the 1-6x variables in my opinion. For a short to medium range low powered variable I think that a good BDC is faster than trying to count down and remember what hash mark corresponds to what distance.
The turrets are very good and could easily be left uncovered if you need the ability to quickly dial for wind, but still low profile with the caps on. Mine tracks properly which is a breath of fresh air coming from an ACOG that was like chasing a moving target when it came to zeroing.
My typical 3-gun load is a 50 gr vmax moving roughly 3125 out of an 18in barrel and it matches the reticle almost perfectly. I know this isn't a preferred bullet weight for more serious users but in experimenting with strelok+ it does seem that the JM-1 reticle is very usable up to 69gr bullets.
This is the nicest optic I have ever owned but I have had the opportunity to look through various offerings from Leupold, Swaro, Kahles. I don't own any of the comparable variables from those three so don't take this as gospel but in my limited experience the Vortex is competitive with all three in terms of glass quality. It is weird to think of a $1200 optic as a 'value' brand but compared to the Swaro and Kahles it is a significant savings. For me the better reticle and $ saved outweighed the weight penalty.
I would be curious to hear of any mil users who might have had a chance to try the Vortex, if they think that the additional weight might come with the added benefit of some 'overbuilt' durability compared to the lighter weight offerings. I use mine for 3-gun and I don't baby it but I'm not in a position to beat the hell out of a $1200 scope just to see how tough it is.
Vortex does have a best in the industry transferrable lifetime warranty.
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10696277_10104108528592698_4144980015826636604_n.jpg?oh=9f34dc016cbc0d210725d1c358817d3a&oe=554EBBF8
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/r180/p180x540/10628519_10104089870139388_4196742780008199097_n.jpg?oh=0a92543f2d54beff0ebb4eeafc5a7676&oe=554A6720&__gda__=1432235847_4407e37ace8d9e22e93c69c395e848e6
Illumination is no bullshit daylight bright in any circumstances. I don't think I would ever use the top two or three settings.
Was super happy with the Vortex at a recent Alias class. 18" WOA SPR tube with BH 77gr OTM ammo. The ballistic reticle worked well enough with a 200 yard zero. It made everything fast and easy. I'm sold on the concept for a mid range rifle. I didn't expect it to work as well as it did, in fact. 31577
Even though it is a touch on the heavy side, I favor the Razor 1-6 with the JM-1 reticle.
The reticle is extremely intuitive. A lot of the more precise mil type reticles are largely lost on the 1-6x variables in my opinion. For a short to medium range low powered variable I think that a good BDC is faster than trying to count down and remember what hash mark corresponds to what distance.
The turrets are very good and could easily be left uncovered if you need the ability to quickly dial for wind, but still low profile with the caps on. Mine tracks properly which is a breath of fresh air coming from an ACOG that was like chasing a moving target when it came to zeroing.
My typical 3-gun load is a 50 gr vmax moving roughly 3125 out of an 18in barrel and it matches the reticle almost perfectly. I know this isn't a preferred bullet weight for more serious users but in experimenting with strelok+ it does seem that the JM-1 reticle is very usable up to 69gr bullets.
This is the nicest optic I have ever owned but I have had the opportunity to look through various offerings from Leupold, Swaro, Kahles. I don't own any of the comparable variables from those three so don't take this as gospel but in my limited experience the Vortex is competitive with all three in terms of glass quality. It is weird to think of a $1200 optic as a 'value' brand but compared to the Swaro and Kahles it is a significant savings. For me the better reticle and $ saved outweighed the weight penalty.
I would be curious to hear of any mil users who might have had a chance to try the Vortex, if they think that the additional weight might come with the added benefit of some 'overbuilt' durability compared to the lighter weight offerings. I use mine for 3-gun and I don't baby it but I'm not in a position to beat the hell out of a $1200 scope just to see how tough it is.
Vortex does have a best in the industry transferrable lifetime warranty.
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10696277_10104108528592698_4144980015826636604_n.jpg?oh=9f34dc016cbc0d210725d1c358817d3a&oe=554EBBF8
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/r180/p180x540/10628519_10104089870139388_4196742780008199097_n.jpg?oh=0a92543f2d54beff0ebb4eeafc5a7676&oe=554A6720&__gda__=1432235847_4407e37ace8d9e22e93c69c395e848e6
Illumination is no bullshit daylight bright in any circumstances. I don't think I would ever use the top two or three settings.
Did you smack your acog with something hard when zeroing?
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IndianaBoy
02-08-15, 12:56
Did you smack your acog with something hard when zeroing?
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Yes. I tried using the heel of my palm, screwdriver handle, etc. it always took forever for the damn thing to settle down. I was questioning my shooting, the rifle, my ammo.....etc. it was otherwise a great optic but I just never could trust it. Maybe I had a lemon.
This is a timely thread. I've been seriously considering going back to a low power variable scope. This would go on my 11.5" BCM upper. I know some people laugh at the idea of a scope on an SBR but the FACT is that the gun shoots better than I can see out to a few hundred yards and the magnification would be nice.
For a while I had a Trijicon TR24 1-4 on a 16" upper and I really, really liked it as far as clarity and durability were concerned (not that it ever took much abuse), but i just never could warm up to the triangle-sitting-on-a-post reticle. I did, however, especially like that this scope didn't take batteries.
However, I'm pretty much lost on where to start with regard to different types of turrets, different types of reticles, and which focal plane is best for this application. I'd be willing to spend up to about $1000 max on the scope, which would go in a Bobro mount. This isn't going to happen right away, but I might as well start fielding suggestions and recommendations now so I know where to start researching.
On a sbr Id go with a NF 1-4 FC2, or a Leupold VXR patrol, or standard. Both are small and light weight. I have the NF 1-4, and I've had the VXR patrol, and standard. For the price the VXR is a very nice little scope. The 1.25 for me was a non issue.
On a sbr Id go with a NF 1-4 FC2, or a Leupold VXR patrol, or standard. Both are small and light weight. I have the NF 1-4, and I've had the VXR patrol, and standard. For the price the VXR is a very nice little scope. The 1.25 for me was a non issue.
Thanks for the suggestions. Would you still go with a 1-4 over the new 1-6's that are out?
One day we'll have to make good on that trip to the range in St. Augustine.
I've also have the Vortex 1-6, which is awesome minus being a fat pig. For me worrying about shooting com/head shots out to 500 yards a 1-4 is sufficient.
yes we need a range day, I can bring all three scopes for you to try, I also have a Steiner 1-4 that should be here Tuesday.
This is a timely thread. I've been seriously considering going back to a low power variable scope. This would go on my 11.5" BCM upper. I know some people laugh at the idea of a scope on an SBR but the FACT is that the gun shoots better than I can see out to a few hundred yards and the magnification would be nice.
I have a TR24 on my 12.5 and it does all I need it to do. Makes sense for me.
I have a TR24 on my 12.5 and it does all I need it to do. Makes sense for me.
I might like the newer version that is available with a more traditional reticle. The one I had before had the red triangle on top of a post and I didn't like that reticle. That was my only complaint against it.
My application is for a 14.5" BCM Middy BFH w/13" KMR to serve as a 3gun/recce rifle. 3gun where I live is mostly 10-12 yds for rifle with a few 100yd+ targets. Thus, speed at close distance is very important. I'm down to either the NF 1-4, the Leupold VX6, or the Vortex 1-6. As mentioned the Vortex is heavy, but perhaps more important is that the reticle is useless for speed if the battery/illumination fail. That takes me back to the NF or Leup. I've heard it rumored that NF is coming out with something new in May, so I may just wait until then. For the recce/go-to part of the application, though, a bold reticle useable without illumination seems imporant to me.
My application is for a 14.5" BCM Middy BFH w/13" KMR to serve as a 3gun/recce rifle. 3gun where I live is mostly 10-12 yds for rifle with a few 100yd+ targets. Thus, speed at close distance is very important. I'm down to either the NF 1-4, the Leupold VX6, or the Vortex 1-6. As mentioned the Vortex is heavy, but perhaps more important is that the reticle is useless for speed if the battery/illumination fail. That takes me back to the NF or Leup. I've heard it rumored that NF is coming out with something new in May, so I may just wait until then. For the recce/go-to part of the application, though, a bold reticle useable without illumination seems imporant to me.
That's intriguing about NF. I'm in no rush to buy so I might wait to see if there's any truth to that rumor.
Combat durable 1-6 with stupid long daylight visible battery life and a reticle that doesn't even need Illumination for daytime that doesn't weigh as much as a brick?????? I can only hope.
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My application is for a 14.5" BCM Middy BFH w/13" KMR to serve as a 3gun/recce rifle. 3gun where I live is mostly 10-12 yds for rifle with a few 100yd+ targets. Thus, speed at close distance is very important. I'm down to either the NF 1-4, the Leupold VX6, or the Vortex 1-6. As mentioned the Vortex is heavy, but perhaps more important is that the reticle is useless for speed if the battery/illumination fail. That takes me back to the NF or Leup. I've heard it rumored that NF is coming out with something new in May, so I may just wait until then. For the recce/go-to part of the application, though, a bold reticle useable without illumination seems imporant to me.
Running pretty much the same set up for my 'all in one' gun. I'd be interested to see something new from NF in the 1-6 realm. I would hope that they will nail clarity & eye relief like the Vortex. For me, the weight is really minimal compared to what you get with the Vortex. I'm tenths off a T1 on close targets even in awkward positions with very wide FOV, will get faster with time. To offset the weight, I put it on a BCM ELW-F 14.5 w/ KMR, without optic almost 5lbs. With it on, it still feels lighter than my old 'cheese grater' railed rifles. This thing rocks. YMMV.
Running pretty much the same set up for my 'all in one' gun. I'd be interested to see something new from NF in the 1-6 realm. I would hope that they will nail clarity & eye relief like the Vortex.
A 1-6x NF would be tits.
Just FYI, word is the NF is a 1-8.
Just FYI, word is the NF is a 1-8.
That's very interesting, although it sounds like it's getting heavier and more expensive every time someone posts.
That's very interesting, although it sounds like it's getting heavier and more expensive every time someone posts.
Word on the skreet is below 20 oz. not sure on price. My primary concerns are eyebox and head position. The 2.5-10x24 scope is not that far off from a 1-8. I could see Nightforce building a 1-8 off that platform. I've had a 2.5-10x24 and got rid of it becauase it was so "tight." For me, this needs to be a carbine with a little magnification. Not a "sniper rifle." Unless NF has created a free lunch (fingers crossed) the 1-4 is still probably the winner for this application.
Word on the skreet is below 20 oz. not sure on price. My primary concerns are eyebox and head position. The 2.5-10x24 scope is not that far off from a 1-8. I could see Nightforce building a 1-8 off that platform. I've had a 2.5-10x24 and got rid of it becauase it was so "tight." For me, this needs to be a carbine with a little magnification. Not a "sniper rifle." Unless NF has created a free lunch (fingers crossed) the 1-4 is still probably the winner for this application.
Do you think head position and eyebox would be tight or restrictive even on 1x? My hands-on experience with these types of scopes is pretty limited, but I was under the impression that on 1x head position/eyebox was fairly forgiving.
Failure2Stop
02-10-15, 10:26
Do you think head position and eyebox would be tight or restrictive even on 1x? My hands-on experience with these types of scopes is pretty limited, but I was under the impression that on 1x head position/eyebox was fairly forgiving.
Depends on the scope.
Shooting open in 3gun and also using that Rifle as a SPR/Varmint gun on the off days, I've set it up with a Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP MOA and a offset Bushnell TRS-25. Its a full BCM Rifle with 18in SS410 barrel and 13in KMR. 3gun its run unsuppressed just to take some weight off and well the timers have a really hard time picking up the shots when suppressed, otherwise when its not at a 3gun match its suppressed and loaded with 53gr Superformance Vmax.
My training gun/go to rifle is a custom built for me BCM Dark Bronze 14.5in ELW with TR-24G with German #4. Inside 400 its all the optic I need as hold overs with a 200 yard zero are more or less dead on.
Depends on the scope.
Thanks.
Shooting open in 3gun and also using that Rifle as a SPR/Varmint gun on the off days, I've set it up with a Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP MOA and a offset Bushnell TRS-25. Its a full BCM Rifle with 18in SS410 barrel and 13in KMR. 3gun its run unsuppressed just to take some weight off and well the timers have a really hard time picking up the shots when suppressed, otherwise when its not at a 3gun match its suppressed and loaded with 53gr Superformance Vmax.
My training gun/go to rifle is a custom built for me BCM Dark Bronze 14.5in ELW with TR-24G with German #4. Inside 400 its all the optic I need as hold overs with a 200 yard zero are more or less dead on.
How's the dot on the German#4 I've only had the TR24 with triangle.
How's the dot on the German#4 I've only had the TR24 with triangle.
I found it small and also very light dependent/easy to wash out in certain conditions. I'm also curious about his mentioning of holdovers. Just the step changes in reticle thickness?
Yep, With a 200 yard zero I hold dead on out to 300 and at 400 I hold at head level with the center dot. The Green is actually much easier for me to pick up in bright light than the Red. At 1x it acts as a Green Aimpoint and at 4x I have a out to 400 optic. I have not tried it further than that. If I shoot Tac Optics I use this rifle as someone stated, most Rifle stages are 50 yards an in with 1 or 2 stages past 100 yards.
I much prefer open for 3gun as a I freaking hate loading a shotgun and my XRail'd Versamax holds 23 from the get go and we setup all of our stages to run fairly quickly while still having a good amount of shooting. A 15+ shotgun stage can slow each squad down by an average of 30 minutes of total time. Add that up amongst 7-10 squads and you've added a ton of extra time.
Tried running a 2gun events here but there was hardly any interest. I may get in on the USCA events somewhere.
IndianaBoy
02-10-15, 20:52
As mentioned the Vortex is heavy, but perhaps more important is that the reticle is useless for speed if the battery/illumination fail.
That isn't my experience.
That isn't my experience.
Please elaborate.
That's very interesting, although it sounds like it's getting heavier and more expensive every time someone posts.
1-8X
Sub 20oz
Daylight bright
...just a rumor.
I'm likely going to go with the VCOG...here is why...
The VCOG does have a few shortcomings. Mainly:
Illumination---It is daylight bright, but not as bright as the K16i or Z6i, and maybe not even the Razor HD, but it is plenty bright enough if not shooting at the sun.
Eyebox---Not as good as the big boys from across the pond, but about like the Razor or MK6.
Diopter shift---it's noticeable for sure.
So why? Well, because of its strengths:
Weight---people complain that 23oz without a mount is heavy, but when you consider a QD mount for it is <4oz, and to put a QD mount on a tube-type optic is 7.5-10.5oz, it becomes "as light" as the lightest 1-6X's out there. Using an Aero Ultralight mount, the "tube mount" scopes do have an advantage, but I wand QD. So the VCOG...is light. Without the added hassel and weak-point of bending the tube to mount it with rings (I just can't get over that. You buy a $2K thin metal tube filled with precision ground glass, and it's held in place by bending the walls of it against ring pressure. I know "it's fine", it's just the concept.).
Illumination---the battery has a 20 year shelf-life and is super available. nice.
Eyebox---It isn't bad, really. I'd consider that most people would call this one of its strengths.
Durability---It's a brick shit house.
Reticle---I REALLY like the horseshoe reticle. It is very fast on 1X, and very usable on 6X. Very well done, although instead of a BDC, MDRAD would have been nice.
Price---At $1950 new, it's not too bad. The most expensive mount on the planet for it is only $210, also. Compare this to $500+ options for ring type mounts, if you go that way and are so inclined.
How the shortcomings come out in the shake, for me:
The biggest one was diopter shift. I played with several and HATED THEM! So... I drove to another store, recently, and handled another VCOG. SWFA, this time. The guy at SWFA who helped me suggested setting diopter on 3X. So, I did. Diopter shift at 1x and 6x was, again slightly noticeable, but not worse than the MK6 I played with. It was extremely usable. They even mounted it on an M4 and let me walk around outside with it for a minute. Very fast and usable! My diopter issue was/is solved.
The illumination, like I said, is a little quibble, but the reticle and use of a AA battery overshadows it. It is plenty powerful on all but the brightest of days, when a black reticle on a light target would actually probably stand out better, anyway.
Long and short of it, that's how I went from hating the VCOG to planning on buying one.
Re: Vortex. Everyone I know who has broken one has been taken care of very well. I don't know of anyone who has broken other optics, so I can't say. Seems Vortex is somewhat fragile though, based on my friend's experiences.
IndianaBoy
02-11-15, 02:02
Please elaborate.
I use mine with the illumination off probably at least half the time. On neutral brown colors the contrast of black shows up very well especially in bright sunlight. I turn it on when it is very overcast or getting dark. Distance to targets makes a difference too. As well as the level of precision required.
I've never felt slowed or needed to hunt for my crosshair when using it with the illum of. Off settings between each setting lets me very quickly turn it on or off if I need to.
IndianaBoy
02-11-15, 02:06
Re: Vortex. Everyone I know who has broken one has been taken care of very well. I don't know of anyone who has broken other optics, so I can't say. Seems Vortex is somewhat fragile though, based on my friend's experiences.
This is a data point I have been looking for. Can you specify how they broke and under what kind of use? The z6i has a reputation for being somewhat fragile but I haven't heard this about the Razor yet.
I would agree the VCOG is a brick shithouse. Trijicon sets the standard for toughness IMHO.
This is a data point I have been looking for. Can you specify how they broke and under what kind of use? The z6i has a reputation for being somewhat fragile but I haven't heard this about the Razor yet.
I would agree the VCOG is a brick shithouse. Trijicon sets the standard for toughness IMHO.
I will ask. I think it just stopped holding zero, though.
ETA: Just spoke with him. He says it was at a course while he was zeroing. "It went fuzzy". He has not had it fixed yet, but has lost confidence in it and is replacing it with "something else".
I'm likely going to go with the VCOG...here is why...
The VCOG does have a few shortcomings. Mainly:
Illumination---It is daylight bright, but not as bright as the K16i or Z6i, and maybe not even the Razor HD, but it is plenty bright enough if not shooting at the sun.
Eyebox---Not as good as the big boys from across the pond, but about like the Razor or MK6.
Diopter shift---it's noticeable for sure.
So why? Well, because of its strengths:
Weight---people complain that 23oz without a mount is heavy, but when you consider a QD mount for it is <4oz, and to put a QD mount on a tube-type optic is 7.5-10.5oz, it becomes "as light" as the lightest 1-6X's out there. Using an Aero Ultralight mount, the "tube mount" scopes do have an advantage, but I wand QD. So the VCOG...is light. Without the added hassel and weak-point of bending the tube to mount it with rings (I just can't get over that. You buy a $2K thin metal tube filled with precision ground glass, and it's held in place by bending the walls of it against ring pressure. I know "it's fine", it's just the concept.).
Illumination---the battery has a 20 year shelf-life and is super available. nice.
Eyebox---It isn't bad, really. I'd consider that most people would call this one of its strengths.
Durability---It's a brick shit house.
Reticle---I REALLY like the horseshoe reticle. It is very fast on 1X, and very usable on 6X. Very well done, although instead of a BDC, MDRAD would have been nice.
Price---At $1950 new, it's not too bad. The most expensive mount on the planet for it is only $210, also. Compare this to $500+ options for ring type mounts, if you go that way and are so inclined.
How the shortcomings come out in the shake, for me:
The biggest one was diopter shift. I played with several and HATED THEM! So... I drove to another store, recently, and handled another VCOG. SWFA, this time. The guy at SWFA who helped me suggested setting diopter on 3X. So, I did. Diopter shift at 1x and 6x was, again slightly noticeable, but not worse than the MK6 I played with. It was extremely usable. They even mounted it on an M4 and let me walk around outside with it for a minute. Very fast and usable! My diopter issue was/is solved.
The illumination, like I said, is a little quibble, but the reticle and use of a AA battery overshadows it. It is plenty powerful on all but the brightest of days, when a black reticle on a light target would actually probably stand out better, anyway.
Long and short of it, that's how I went from hating the VCOG to planning on buying one.
Re: Vortex. Everyone I know who has broken one has been taken care of very well. I don't know of anyone who has broken other optics, so I can't say. Seems Vortex is somewhat fragile though, based on my friend's experiences.
Where are you finding the VCOG for $1950.00?
Where are you finding the VCOG for $1950.00?
It was going for roughly dealer cost at $1550 a while back on some sites. I'd have to look.
It was going for roughly dealer cost at $1550 a while back on some sites. I'd have to look.
I saw that around Christmas, I should have bought then. Thanks.
Dealer cost on the VCOG last I looked(yesterday) was $1799
Dealer cost on the VCOG last I looked(yesterday) was $1799
Now the $64,000 dollar question, who sells them near, or at that price?
Liberty had some for $1599. DSG has had them for $1650-1750 a few times.
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Dealer cost on the VCOG last I looked(yesterday) was $1799
Interesting. The places selling for $1550 claimed that was their cost/near it. Why take a $200 loss? Weird.
Maybe it depends on the dealer. For example, the local Dodge dealer cannot even buy Pennzoil Platinum for the price Wal-Mart can SELL IT to me for, or so they claim.
Some places are Direct Trijicon Dealers, me I'm not. They require an absurd amount of first time order and then even more absurd amount of quarterly re-order value.
Same reason Wal-mart can sell it cheaper than your dealership can buy it. Wal-mart buys in 10,000 times the quantity.
Some places are Direct Trijicon Dealers, me I'm not. They require an absurd amount of first time order and then even more absurd amount of quarterly re-order value.
Same reason Wal-mart can sell it cheaper than your dealership can buy it. Wal-mart buys in 10,000 times the quantity.
Exactly. 1550 may be dd price.
My application is for a 14.5" BCM Middy BFH w/13" KMR to serve as a 3gun/recce rifle. 3gun where I live is mostly 10-12 yds for rifle with a few 100yd+ targets. Thus, speed at close distance is very important. I'm down to either the NF 1-4, the Leupold VX6, or the Vortex 1-6. As mentioned the Vortex is heavy, but perhaps more important is that the reticle is useless for speed if the battery/illumination fail. That takes me back to the NF or Leup. I've heard it rumored that NF is coming out with something new in May, so I may just wait until then. For the recce/go-to part of the application, though, a bold reticle useable without illumination seems imporant to me.
Well, I threw my hat in with Leupold and had work order me the VX-6 CMR-2:
I asked Leupold the following:
Hello, I'm interested in the Leupold VX-6 Multigun 1-6 scope with the
CMR-2 reticle. I've handled the one with the Firedot SPR reticle that
was was an option through SWFA/Leupold Custom Shop. My question is in
regards to the illumination on the CMR-2 version that is to be
released. Will the illumination be Firedot bright? Just the Center
Dot or the whole Horseshoe? Or, will it be like on the Mark 4 MR/T
1.5-5? Also, is there an ETA for release of this scope with the
CMR-2?
They answered with the following:
The Multigun CMR-2 does use firedot technology so only the dot will be illuminated. We expect these scopes to be in distribution March 1st.
I much prefer an Aimpoint type dot for 1x fast shooting. I've used (and sold) the Bushnell 1-4 BTR Throwdown FFP scope and found that my eye does not enjoy a big glowing horseshoe. Too busy/distracting/covers too much target for close/fast headshots (for example). However, I believe the holdovers in the CMR2 are more useful than those in the SPR and also feel that in the absence of illumination (dead battery, etc) that the black horseshoe could still be used to some speed effect better than just a basic crosshair like on the Vortex 1-6 Razor (similar to the NF FC-2).
So now my dilemma is Burris xtr ii 1-5x w mil dot reticle vs the VX6 w the CMR2. I think the advantages of the VX6 are much lighter weight and capped turrets. I don't know if I would like the bdc on the cmr2 but I suppose it may be more KISS. Is the VX6 second focal plane? I would also like a horseshoe that is bold enough to be useable sans illumination.
So what do you fellas think Vx6 or xtr ii?
I've looked through the vcog and my only concern is that with the FFP design, on 1x the horseshoe is on the small side and if the illumination is not available, I wasn't sure if the horseshoe would be big enough to practically use, which may be a deal breaker since I can't find one for less than like 2300 and that's too expensive for me to just buy and try..still intrigued however as it would make a great all round solid optic for the ages. I did see one for 1950 but w a 77gr bdc. As a matter of fact when I looked I only found 55gr bdc or 77gr bdc. Do they even make a 62gr bdc for the vcog?
Daco.....
I don't understand your needs as well as you do but I think the VCOG is a terrible way to spend $2200. FFP 6x?? The reticle is not designed well for a FFP, don't need one for a 6x anyway. I like the reticle at 4x and more at 6x, blah to the rest. Most higher end scopes are put together well. Not trying to be overly harsh but beyond the 6x reticle the best feature is the AA battery. You can get a SR8c for less and nearly two HD II's on a special. If the VCOG was a dual focal......ok.....it is only money. Unfortunately, in its current form it is a bewildering 6x FFP.
Edit: Still waiting for CMR2 SFP, FFP is silly on a 6x.
Krampus
Daco.....
I don't understand your needs as well as you do but I think the VCOG is a terrible way to spend $2200. FFP 6x?? The reticle is not designed well for a FFP, don't need one for a 6x anyway. I like the reticle at 4x and more at 6x, blah to the rest. Most higher end scopes are put together well. Not trying to be overly harsh but beyond the 6x reticle the best feature is the AA battery. You can get a SR8c for less and nearly two HD II's on a special. If the VCOG was a dual focal......ok.....it is only money. Unfortunately, in its current form it is a bewildering 6x FFP.
Edit: Still waiting for CMR2 SFP, FFP is silly on a 6x.
Krampus
Yeah when the issues are broken down like that it is hard to defend the vcog for the money compared to a Khales which I was close to buying, except for robustness, the AA, and battery life. Still there is something about the robustness
, the battery and battery life advantage and the fact I wouldn't have to bother with a scope mount that still keeps me intrigued, as this would be for a general purpose homestead defense set up. I tend to sway to KISS type setups and the vcog is the epitome of that to me. However the cost benefit analysis thus far has kept me away. I'll probably be getting the Burris xtr ii or maybe the vX6 with the cmr2 since, due to availability and convenience, I'm slowly seeming to standardize on 62gr ammo.
I've looked through the vcog and my only concern is that with the FFP design, on 1x the horseshoe is on the small side and if the illumination is not available, I wasn't sure if the horseshoe would be big enough to practically use, which may be a deal breaker since I can't find one for less than like 2300 and that's too expensive for me to just buy and try..still intrigued however as it would make a great all round solid optic for the ages. I did see one for 1950 but w a 77gr bdc. As a matter of fact when I looked I only found 55gr bdc or 77gr bdc. Do they even make a 62gr bdc for the vcog?
I have not used one in practice, but SWFA did allow me to mount on on a rifle and step outside. I love FFP on the VCOG. I noted no issues illuminated or not.
This review demonstrates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcKcxo7laks
FourT6and2
02-14-15, 06:21
I've been very happy with my Kahles K16i so far. I've had it for 4-5 months. I just use it at the range, nothing hard-use. But it's great. I rarely have to push the illumination up high. It's super bright. Works well with the illumination off (I have the SM1 reticle). Seems to be a fairly robust scope. Glass is stupid clear. No diopter shift as far as I can tell. Though for both eyes open at 1x like a red dot, you need to adjust diopter, otherwise each eye will be focusing at a different distance. But diopter is indexed with a mark and it might just be my eyes, but that mark lines up perfectly top-dead-center for that, so it's easy to adjust on the fly for me at least.
Only negative thing about it is the turret design. They are not really intended to be adjusted on the fly. The turrets are more of a set-and-forget thing. So they are not the best in terms of click-feel. They are kinda mushy. But on a 1-6x you're not going to be dialing in elevation and windage in the field like a higher powered scope. Maybe? I don't know. I see no reason to do so on something like 4x...
I got mine for around $2k, plus the mount (Bobro).
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2014/338/b/c/noveske_kahles_4_by_haftelm-d88puf4.jpg
77gr OTM (MK262) @ 100 yards.
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2015/031/6/2/stainless_2_by_haftelm-d8g6h54.jpg
Yeah when the issues are broken down like that it is hard to defend the vcog for the money compared to a Khales which I was close to buying, except for robustness, the AA, and battery life. Still there is something about the robustness
, the battery and battery life advantage and the fact I wouldn't have to bother with a scope mount that still keeps me intrigued, as this would be for a general purpose homestead defense set up. I tend to sway to KISS type setups and the vcog is the epitome of that to me. However the cost benefit analysis thus far has kept me away. I'll probably be getting the Burris xtr ii or maybe the vX6 with the cmr2 since, due to availability and convenience, I'm slowly seeming to standardize on 62gr ammo.
If the 1x is important to you then you need to demo it before you marry it, note the eyebox at all magnifications.
Krampus
Here is a review of the Kahles K16i 1-6x24 : http://www.westernshooter.com/2014/09/kahles-k16i-1-6x24-sm1-review.html
Spring-Diver
06-09-15, 13:31
Well, I threw my hat in with Leupold and had work order me the VX-6 CMR-2:
I asked Leupold the following:Just the Center
Dot or the whole Horseshoe?
They answered with the following:
The Multigun CMR-2 does use firedot technology so only the dot will be illuminated.
.
Well......how do you like the scope? Is it daylight bright?
I asked Leupold the same question. Their reply was that the horseshoe & dot are illuminated. So....which is it?
They also said the retical is in the SFP position.
Looking forward to your comments:)
Cheers
Shannon
PatrioticDisorder
06-09-15, 16:06
I've been very happy with my Kahles K16i so far. I've had it for 4-5 months. I just use it at the range, nothing hard-use. But it's great. I rarely have to push the illumination up high. It's super bright. Works well with the illumination off (I have the SM1 reticle). Seems to be a fairly robust scope. Glass is stupid clear. No diopter shift as far as I can tell. Though for both eyes open at 1x like a red dot, you need to adjust diopter, otherwise each eye will be focusing at a different distance. But diopter is indexed with a mark and it might just be my eyes, but that mark lines up perfectly top-dead-center for that, so it's easy to adjust on the fly for me at least.
Only negative thing about it is the turret design. They are not really intended to be adjusted on the fly. The turrets are more of a set-and-forget thing. So they are not the best in terms of click-feel. They are kinda mushy. But on a 1-6x you're not going to be dialing in elevation and windage in the field like a higher powered scope. Maybe? I don't know. I see no reason to do so on something like 4x...
I got mine for around $2k, plus the mount (Bobro).
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2014/338/b/c/noveske_kahles_4_by_haftelm-d88puf4.jpg
77gr OTM (MK262) @ 100 yards.
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2015/031/6/2/stainless_2_by_haftelm-d8g6h54.jpg
I have this same scope and IMO, nothing in its price range can compete with it. Daylight bright, mil stadia, huge field of view, great eyebox, lightweight, holds an extra battery in wind age cap. It beats the Mk6 hands down IMO (and I like the Mk6) and blows the VCOG out of the water.
Interesting. The places selling for $1550 claimed that was their cost/near it. Why take a $200 loss? Weird.
Maybe it depends on the dealer. For example, the local Dodge dealer cannot even buy Pennzoil Platinum for the price Wal-Mart can SELL IT to me for, or so they claim.
At $1,550 it's still over priced. VCOG would rule the $1,000-$1,400 scopes if they would price it accordingly.
FourT6and2
06-09-15, 17:32
I have this same scope and IMO, nothing in its price range can compete with it. Daylight bright, mil stadia, huge field of view, great eyebox, lightweight, holds an extra battery in wind age cap. It beats the Mk6 hands down IMO (and I like the Mk6) and blows the VCOG out of the water.
Yeah, I still like it. :) Although one problem (that might not be a problem): the housing on the ocular-end of the scope—the tubular piece that has the Kahles logo on it that is between the diopter and the zoom ring—has rotated slightly over time. I'm not sure if this piece screw on or presses on or what. But all the shooting I've done caused it to turn. So the index marks for the zoom ring and the diopter are now shifted by a few millimeters. I don't think it's a real issue. But I might contact Kahles to see what can be done.
I've thought about trying a 1-8x or 1-10x as well.
Well......how do you like the scope? Is it daylight bright?
I asked Leupold the same question. Their reply was that the horseshoe & dot are illuminated. So....which is it?
They also said the retical is in the SFP position.
Looking forward to your comments:)
Cheers
Shannon
Firedot illumination uses a glass fiberoptic strand that is illuminated at one end by an LED making the other end glow. Though it glows extremely brightly and is indeed daylight visible, nothing around it lights up meaning only the center dot illuminates. It's a fantastic 3 gun scope but because it is 2nd focal plane the holdovers are only accurate at high mag. The Mark 6 1-6 is front focal, does illuminate the center dot AND horseshoe and is daylight bright. However due to the technology used to achieve this in the front focal plane some users complain that the illumination is sensitive to how centered you are in the eyebox. If this is a big deal to you the firedot is not sensitive at all, so much so that you can pick up the dot even when you can't see through the scope. Hope that helps.
Spring-Diver
06-15-15, 14:39
Firedot illumination uses a glass fiberoptic strand that is illuminated at one end by an LED making the other end glow. Though it glows extremely brightly and is indeed daylight visible, nothing around it lights up meaning only the center dot illuminates. It's a fantastic 3 gun scope but because it is 2nd focal plane the holdovers are only accurate at high mag. Hope that helps.
Thanks Hochsitz,
However over at AR15.... there is a thread running on this scope. One of the members has posted photos showing the horseshoe & dot illuminated. I've looked through Leupold 's VX-6 website....I can't find info on how the retical is illuminated.
Hopefully an owner can chime in with their opinion on this matter.
Cheers
Shannon
Thanks Hochsitz,
However over at AR15.... there is a thread running on this scope. One of the members has posted photos showing the horseshoe & dot illuminated. I've looked through Leupold 's VX-6 website....I can't find info on how the retical is illuminated.
Hopefully an owner can chime in with their opinion on this matter.
Cheers
Shannon
Thanks Diver, I stand corrected. That definitely is NOT a Firedot system because the reticle feature does not run to the edge of the reticle. They must be using the more conventional shine-a-light-on-it kind of illumination that typically is not as bright. I've already been proven wrong on this once so I'll check my sources and see if I can get the real scoop. My guess is it's sufficiently bright for most folks but not bright as the Texas sun like some individuals demand. Not sure why someone would need to shoot at the sun but who am I to judge? The picture they posted further down on that thread shows a true Firedot (note the reticle goes to the edge) and I can verify those suckers are bright. I very much doubt the multigun is as bright but will find out for sure.
Thanks Hochsitz,
However over at AR15.... there is a thread running on this scope. One of the members has posted photos showing the horseshoe & dot illuminated. I've looked through Leupold 's VX-6 website....I can't find info on how the retical is illuminated.
Hopefully an owner can chime in with their opinion on this matter.
Cheers
Shannon
In the thread you mention the cmr reticle pictures are from a mk4 1.5-5, not a vx6.
Thanks Hochsitz,
However over at AR15.... there is a thread running on this scope. One of the members has posted photos showing the horseshoe & dot illuminated. I've looked through Leupold 's VX-6 website....I can't find info on how the retical is illuminated.
Hopefully an owner can chime in with their opinion on this matter.
Cheers
Shannon
I finally got a peek through one of these. 1) It is not a "Firedot" type system. 2) It illuminates the horseshoe, not just the center dot. 3) While it is bright enough to see during the day, the red illumination is not visible at high noon against a bright sunlit target.
If you struggle seeing a black reticle against dark backgrounds this could work well for you. If you are trying to simulate an RDS in a 1X scope, you will be disappointed. The Firedot does a much better job of that IMHO.
XD40Colorado
07-03-15, 22:04
MTAC 1-4 x 24 has served me well. True 1x, BDC for m855 (I use mk318 as my HD ammo), ranging abilities. Good price, good features, good glass, good warranty.
Spring-Diver
07-04-15, 04:17
If you are trying to simulate an RDS in a 1X scope, you will be disappointed.
Thanks Hochsitz:)
That's what I was hoping for.... simulating a RDS. Hopfully my LGS will get one so I can decide for myself.
Cheers
Shannon
joedirt199
07-04-15, 10:21
Could always cover the objective side and turn the illumination on. Shoot with both eyes open and the illumination superimposes on the target minus magnification.
Yeah, I still like it. :) Although one problem (that might not be a problem): the housing on the ocular-end of the scope—the tubular piece that has the Kahles logo on it that is between the diopter and the zoom ring—has rotated slightly over time. I'm not sure if this piece screw on or presses on or what. But all the shooting I've done caused it to turn. So the index marks for the zoom ring and the diopter are now shifted by a few millimeters. I don't think it's a real issue. But I might contact Kahles to see what can be done.
I've thought about trying a 1-8x or 1-10x as well.
So...did you ever figure that out? It is giving me serious pause when parts of a $2300 optic begin randomly moving around, which are NOT meant to move around. Not because it's now broken...but what else might move that might shouldn't? It's things like that that are pushing me back toward maybe a 1-4X Nightforce NXS.
PatrioticDisorder
08-17-15, 15:10
So...did you ever figure that out? It is giving me serious pause when parts of a $2300 optic begin randomly moving around, which are NOT meant to move around. Not because it's now broken...but what else might move that might shouldn't? It's things like that that are pushing me back toward maybe a 1-4X Nightforce NXS.
I've had zero issues with mine and have been 100% satisfied, in fact I can't imagine taking another LPV over the K16i.
diving dave
08-17-15, 19:28
I've been running a NF 1x4 for quite awhile, I've bounced it among several different carbines. Has found a home now on a BCM 14.5 keymod. This is when I was re-zeroing it, and afterwards was drilling milk jugs at 300 yds. Love this optic.
34662
I've had zero issues with mine and have been 100% satisfied, in fact I can't imagine taking another LPV over the K16i.
I have tried to get rid of mine multiple times just because of the money tied up I it, but all it takes is one look through it and you know it's not going anyway.
Way too good.
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Tophthetank
08-17-15, 21:37
heard from a reliable source, NF is working on a 1-8 and I think a 1-6. Shocker was the 1-8 is close in size of the current 1-4... Price will most likely be in the $3000 range.
heard from a reliable source, NF is working on a 1-8 and I think a 1-6. Shocker was the 1-8 is close in size of the current 1-4... Price will most likely be in the $3000 range.
That would be a monumental (seemingly impossible) achievement, making an 8x scope the length of a 4x scope. I guess we'll see.
Boba Fett v2
08-18-15, 16:29
heard from a reliable source, NF is working on a 1-8 and I think a 1-6. Shocker was the 1-8 is close in size of the current 1-4... Price will most likely be in the $3000 range.
Curiosity piqued.
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All joking aside, if they happen to make a $3000 dollar 1-8......well, they can keep it.
Boba Fett v2
08-18-15, 16:39
I agree. The price is high, but still curious to see what they come up with.
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Tophthetank
08-18-15, 17:51
heard from a reliable source, NF is working on a 1-8 and I think a 1-6. Shocker was the 1-8 is close in size of the current 1-4... Price will most likely be in the $3000 range.
Agiain this is what I heard, the source is reliable BUT I question if the specs are truly accurate.
Edit: (sorry posted early read below)
Tophthetank
08-18-15, 17:56
heard from a reliable source, NF is working on a 1-8 and I think a 1-6. Shocker was the 1-8 is close in size of the current 1-4... Price will most likely be in the $3000 range.
Agiain this is what I heard through a indirect source, and have no reason to believe its unreliable information. However I do myself question the specs of what I was told... if It's accurate I agree it would be a an amazing accomplishment and the price will reflect on that.
I think 2011 was the first rumor of a daylight visible nsx 1 to 4. KevinB alleges to have used one. I'll buy in when it happens.
There was something about a NF 1-6x/1-8x posted a few months back and then it went quiet. I'm very interested to see what they bring to market, but if all the rumors are true I'm pretty sure it will be out of my price range.
I love NF scopes, I have a FC2, and a FC3G, if they come out with a 1-6/1-8 and price it at $3,000 they will be pricing out 95% of the market.
$2,000 should able to sell it.
PatrioticDisorder
08-18-15, 19:54
I love NF scopes, I have a FC2, and a FC3G, if they come out with a 1-6/1-8 and price it at $3,000 they will be pricing out 95% of the market.
$2,000 should able to sell it.
If it has a well thought out reticle, daylight bright, good form factor and typical night force quality glass I think with a $3,000 MSRP it would be a steal as a 1-8, 1-6 at that price I'd stick with the Kahles K16i.
If it has a well thought out reticle, daylight bright, good form factor and typical night force quality glass I think with a $3,000 MSRP it would be a steal as a 1-8, 1-6 at that price I'd stick with the Kahles K16i.
For $3,000 I'd have to steal it.....literally.
If it has a well thought out reticle, daylight bright, good form factor and typical night force quality glass I think with a $3,000 MSRP it would be a steal as a 1-8, 1-6 at that price I'd stick with the Kahles K16i.
At $3k, I would just pony up the additional $600 for the S&B 1-8x Short Dot from EuroOptic.
PatrioticDisorder
08-20-15, 08:24
At $3k, I would just pony up the additional $600 for the S&B 1-8x Short Dot from EuroOptic.
Is the S&B 1.1-8 currently available? I thought it was still vaporware?
Is the S&B 1.1-8 currently available? I thought it was still vaporware?
Yeah, the 1-8 exists, but noone I know thinks much of it. YMMV, and I have not looked through one personally.
PatrioticDisorder
08-20-15, 08:41
Yeah, the 1-8 exists, but noone I know thinks much of it. YMMV, and I have not looked through one personally.
http://mobile.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-11-8x24-pm-ii-high-power-riflescope.aspx
These? I can't seem to view the reticle image on my iPad and the 1 model looks back ordered. Do the reticle just suck? Field of view looks better than the Mk8, I had no idea these were available now I feel I need one. Lol
http://mobile.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-11-8x24-pm-ii-high-power-riflescope.aspx
These? I can't seem to view the reticle image on my iPad and the 1 model looks back ordered. Do the reticle just suck? Field of view looks better than the Mk8, I had no idea these were available now I feel I need one. Lol
http://swfa.com/Schmidt-Bender-1-8x24-Short-Dot-PM-II-30mm-Riflescope-P47551.aspx
It's heavy, the FOV is not very impressive on 1X given the cost, and I've not heard very much good about S&B's durability afield from those who have had occasion to be around them. It's $3500 for the privilege.
PatrioticDisorder
08-20-15, 10:01
http://swfa.com/Schmidt-Bender-1-8x24-Short-Dot-PM-II-30mm-Riflescope-P47551.aspx
It's heavy, the FOV is not very impressive on 1X given the cost, and I've not heard very much good about S&B's durability afield from those who have had occasion to be around them. It's $3500 for the privilege.
I'd have to get behind one but it has listed 106 ft field of view at 100 yards, Mk8 CQBSS is like 93 ft so for a 1.1-8 it smokes the CQBSS in field of view, flash dot will be better illumination than the Mk8, their weight is approximately the same and S&B is generally known for better glass than Leupold (not to say their glass sucks). CQBSS Is also in the same ball park price wise. I think the Horus is better than the mil-dot but at least on paper it seems the edge goes to the S&B on 1.1 and it seems good enough at 8x.
Perhaps I'm missing something? I remember people were drooling at the thought of a 1.1-8 S&B just a few years ago, now it's out and I haven't heard a peep about this until now, CQBSS seems to sell reasonably well...
Boba Fett v2
08-20-15, 10:19
The new PA 1-8x looks interesting. Japanese glass too.
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http://mobile.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-11-8x24-pm-ii-high-power-riflescope.aspx
These? I can't seem to view the reticle image on my iPad and the 1 model looks back ordered. Do the reticle just suck? Field of view looks better than the Mk8, I had no idea these were available now I feel I need one. Lol
When the first S&B 1-8 came out (2011?) I checked it out at a trade show and their rear focal dot appeared to move across the front focal reticle anytime you touched the power selector. This is common among manufacturers that have tried it and is the reason most companies stay in one focal plane or the other, not both. A couple years ago I got a look at this new model and though the dot/reticle issue seemed resolved, other fundamental issues were apparent. The power selector had the expected 1-8 markings but if you kept going past 1x until it stopped it said "CC". According to their technical description this is supposed to reset parallax for closer distances but for me it took an already questionable image at 1x and made it worse. I'll qualify this by saying I wasn't outdoors in natural light and this was two years ago so they may have improved since then but I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I would interpret it as significant diopter shift and noticeable image distortion throughout the magnification range. Not what we expect from a top end optics company. I would be interested in hearing if anyone managed to buy one of these and if the scope still has the issues I saw.
Was hoping for an update. Where is everyone currently on this style optics?
It depends on what your priorities are and what your budget is.
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Just bought a Vortex Crossfire 1x-4x to begin filling a big gap in my skillset: scoped rifle shooting. I bought it as a practical starter option because it's both reasonably priced and well-rated for an entry level optic, or a budget optic. This won't be my last patrol rifle-type scope, but I didn't want to spend Leupold money when I've always liked plinking with a red dot more. When I'm ready to move up, I can inherit it to another rifle, or give it to a friend.
What do I need to consider in the 1500-2000 price range?
Kahles K16i, vortex hd 1-6 and leupold mk6.
Kahles and leupold are relatively light.
-Kahles has the best fov
-Vortex is cheapest, but heaviest,
-Leupold suffers from some flickering with the illumination that bothers some
-Some don't like the illumination controls on the Kahles
-all are daylight bright and "tough"
K16i has been my fav scope I've ever used. I do wish the illumination controls were clicks with off in between instead of a smooth turn, but that was my only complaint.
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Kahles K16i, vortex hd 1-6 and leupold mk6.
Kahles and leupold are relatively light.
-Kahles has the best fov
-Vortex is cheapest, but heaviest,
-Leupold suffers from some flickering with the illumination that bothers some
-Some don't like the illumination controls on the Kahles
-all are daylight bright and "tough"
K16i has been my fav scope I've ever used. I do wish the illumination controls were clicks with off in between instead of a smooth turn, but that was my only complaint.
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I agree with all of this. I'll add that the Vortex has the best overall reticle/daylight visible dot combo (JM-1)
The 2nd Focal Plane Bushnell 1-6.5 Elite scopes are very nice too.
Yeah I will probably get the vortex for my next build
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Leupold AR Mod or SPR. They're a little lighter than some of the Vortex options.
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Yeah I will probably get the vortex for my next build
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Do it, you won't regret it. It doesn't give up anything to the more expensive options, including glass quality. Yes, it's a tank but that's a good thing.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151213/656556fceb89cf9a7b1d9e5848d59269.jpg
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I just bought a Steiner military 1-4x24. The glass is awesome. True 1x. Aimpoint bright illumination. And $699 from EuroOptic right now. I mounted it in an EraTac ultralight cantilever mount, which weighs 5.1 oz and is very nicely designed/manufactured. I'm very impressed with the optic and mount. I would love if this were 1-6x, but for its intended purpose on a RECCE-type carbine, I'm very very pleased.
I will never go back to a LPV now that I've tried this. $1500 plus a red dot is spendy but nothing else compares. The video says it all.
https://youtu.be/d4t5XkVQGGo
Failure2Stop
12-13-15, 12:39
I will never go back to a LPV now that I've tried this. $1500 plus a red dot is spendy but nothing else compares. The video says it all.
https://youtu.be/d4t5XkVQGGo
The D-EVO is pretty cool.
daddyusmaximus
12-13-15, 14:00
As cool as that looks, it's almost confusing.
I will never go back to a LPV now that I've tried this. $1500 plus a red dot is spendy but nothing else compares. The video says it all.
https://youtu.be/d4t5XkVQGGo
More than I need but very cool video, thanks for posting it.
californiasushi
12-13-15, 16:48
I wrote a post comparing a few 1-nx scopes we've owned like the Leupold Mk6 1-6x, Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x, Burris XTR II 1-5x, and the old style Bushnell 1-6.5x if anybody was interested:
http://gunpositive.com/leupold-mk6-1-6x-vs-other-1-nx-scopes/
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