How many rounds will fit in a P30/VP9 15rd mag??

[1_click_off]

So I wanted to know if the mags are designed with a safety factor to protect the spring? Could the follower and spring base be modified for additional rounds?

Go to the stack of mags and find a volunteer, a brand new HK 15rd mag. Start trimming, sanding and dremeling away.

The mag will hold 17 rounds without the spring inserted and enough of the follower to actuate the slide stop. That is about all the trimming one can do to the follower and maintain the slide stop tab and some anti tilt capabilities. 17rds has the follower, spring base and baseplate installed, just no spring.

20rds will fit with just the mag baseplate, no follower, no spring, no spring base.

Add the modified follower, spring, modified spring base, and baseplate and only 16 rounds would comply.

So there are two options to get more than 16 rounds in the mag or a combination of the two....

1. Thin out the spring base and cut the groove deeper into the follower
2. Clip some coils off the spring.

Because I would have to either cut about 5 coils (half the overall length of the spring) off the spring and trim the follower to an unusable size, I stopped there.

From looking at my P30 mags to the Glock, the P30 stays single stacked for about the first 4 rounds and the 5th before starting to buddy up with its partners into the doublestack body portion of the mag. The Glock starts double stacking on what looks like round 3.

Not going to run this modified mag other than at the range and was just an experiment.

I am going to leave this mag loaded to 16rds at all times and use it in the rotation at the range to see if it lasts as long as my 15rd mag do. I recently parted ways with my last P30, so this will be used in my VP9's for testing. At least until I feel I need another P30......

[mcnabb100]

31099

[RAM Engineer]

31099
I really wish they had made this as a 140mm 20-22 round extension. It would be much more useful. I have one of the Taylor Freelance ones, but I'm not completely sold on it. It's heavy even empty, almost impossible to get the last round in, and you can't seat the magazine on a forward slide with all 20 in there.

Maybe Magpul can work some magic for the P30/VP9...

[Defaultmp3]

I really wish they had made this as a 140mm 20-22 round extension. It would be much more useful. I have one of the Taylor Freelance ones, but I'm not completely sold on it. It's heavy even empty, almost impossible to get the last round in, and you can't seat the magazine on a forward slide with all 20 in there.

The second generation of Taylor Freelance extensions are much easier to get that 20th round in (I can do it by hand rather than having to use a loader), and to seat while loaded. I use my first gen ones as practice mags and load those up to 19. I was unable to do tactical reloads with the first gens loaded up to 20, but the second gen ones are just slightly more difficult than the factory 15s. The steel retainer plates are also a huge improvement to the beveled aluminum ones.

As for the topic at hand, I know there was some experimentation with Glock followers on HKPro that allowed 17 rounds to easily fit, but wouldn't lock back the slide.

[RAM Engineer]

The second generation of Taylor Freelance extensions are much easier to get that 20th round in (I can do it by hand rather than having to use a loader), and to seat while loaded. I use my first gen ones as practice mags and load those up to 19. I was unable to do tactical reloads with the first gens loaded up to 20, but the second gen ones are just slightly more difficult than the factory 15s. The steel retainer plates are also a huge improvement to the beveled aluminum ones.

I just got mine from Taylor Freelance last week. So either, they're still sending out old stock, or their tolerances are pretty variable.

Back on topic, given the criticality of the magazine in reliability, I am VERY wary of mods to that subsystem. I would want extensive testing before using modded mags for anything other than range or game use.

[ARonBoard]

I just bought 2 TF extensions and I can seat 20 easily free handed and slap in the weapon no problem with 1 in the chamber and closed action.

Im very intrigued by these 30 rounders. I may have to head up T&E myself.

[1_click_off]

Wasn't really looking for a way to add more rounds, was just doing some experimenting to see what the limiting factors are in the HK mag that hold it back to a 15 rounder. Just some information for anyone sitting around thinking, "why did HK stop at 15?"

[Terrible Tim]

Engineering. HK tries to have reliability for the long haul. If an "extra" 16th round would fit but reduce the performance over time, they just don't do it.

It never ceases to amaze me that people buy Smart cars and then wonder why the performance is so bad. They buy a working M4 and shoot steel cased junk ammo and complain about short stroking, or buy a P30 and shoot junk ammo and complain about FTE problems. If you want 17 or 19 rounds, buy a Glock & be happy!

[montrala]

In HK mags body, follower and baseplate geometry is designed to provide maximum reliability of feeding, even when magazine is dirty inside or was dropped into sand/dust/mud. Also design prevents over compression of mag spring to ensure long services life. Usually by modification or replacement of follower and baseplate mags can get 2/3 9mm or even .40 rounds more (I managed to get 18 rounds reloadable and 19 rounds "hammeralbe" into 16rd .40sw mags for USP Expert). What can't be easily modified is earlier taper that allows more smooth feed from 2 stacks into 1 stack, than competition. In 99% of cases users do not see any gains over competition, except loss of mag capacity in same length. HK in their stubborn way tries to address this remaining 1% of cases.

[1_click_off]

Engineering. HK tries to have reliability for the long haul. If an "extra" 16th round would fit but reduce the performance over time, they just don't do it.

It never ceases to amaze me that people buy Smart cars and then wonder why the performance is so bad. They buy a working M4 and shoot steel cased junk ammo and complain about short stroking, or buy a P30 and shoot junk ammo and complain about FTE problems. If you want 17 or 19 rounds, buy a Glock & be happy!

Again, wasn't looking to mod the mag because I wanted more rounds and unhappy with the HK engineering, I just wanted to see the limiting factors in the mag.

Limiting factor 1 = follower design to stop at 15rds.
Limiting factor 2 = coil bind if follower and base are modified.

Again, not modding to "improve upon design", think HK has the design down. I accept the factory mag for what it is and am not even suggesting the mags are suitable for modifying for an extra round. Was simply just experimenting.
Figure since I have several mags, I will just leave this one as is and see if and how long it works.

Sometimes it is just fun to color outside the lines.

[CatSnipah]

Wasn't really looking for a way to add more rounds, was just doing some experimenting to see what the limiting factors are in the HK mag that hold it back to a 15 rounder. Just some information for anyone sitting around thinking, "why did HK stop at 15?"

You know, I wasn't really thinking about it. But I now have an answer to an un-asked question, hahaha. Thanks!!

[railpig314]

Tim,
I agree with you! They made it that way for a reason. Leave it alone!

[1_click_off]

Fair enough.

Judging from the lack of interest in the bastardized mag, I won't be posting info on its performance and dragging this thread along.

If any want range reports on it, just PM me and I will reply with info. This will be the last update I will post for this thread that has turned into something not intended.

[MGWS]

Fair enough.

Judging from the lack of interest in the bastardized mag, I won't be posting info on its performance and dragging this thread along.

If any want range reports on it, just PM me and I will reply with info. This will be the last update I will post for this thread that has turned into something not intended.

Since the vp9 and p30 use the same mags it has been gone over thoroughly. Quite a few threads on it on hkpro and a short one I found here if you don't feel like searching.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?100374-P30-why-only-15-rounds

[WickedWillis]

I would just like a factory extended HK45 magazine to bring me up to 13-15 Rounds before I buy another factory 10-rounder.

[Ed L.]

Engineering. HK tries to have reliability for the long haul. If an "extra" 16th round would fit but reduce the performance over time, they just don't do it.

It never ceases to amaze me that people buy Smart cars and then wonder why the performance is so bad. They buy a working M4 and shoot steel cased junk ammo and complain about short stroking, or buy a P30 and shoot junk ammo and complain about FTE problems. If you want 17 or 19 rounds, buy a Glock & be happy!

Exactly right!. The mags are engineered for reliability in that size. I would rather have a reliable 15 round magazine than an unreliable 16 or 17 round one. Here are some problems I encountered with the S&W M&P9's 17 rounders:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?51142-Problems-with-M-amp-P9-mags-jamming


I would just like a factory extended HK45 magazine to bring me up to 13-15 Rounds before I buy another factory 10-rounder.

I would like it also, if it was developed by HK. Maybe an extended 12 rounder. Their extended mags for the USP-40 proved unreliable to the point where HK warned against using them for duty use, which means they should not be used for defensive use.

[montrala]

16rd .40sw mags were not unreliable as they were. However clear translucent polymer was not as strong as on standard ones and (with heavier, steel baseplate) those were prone to cracking from multiple drops, especially on concrete floor. Those cracks could lead to baseplate separation (cracks were at lips that hold baseplate) in magazine loaded into pistol or carried in pouch, not something good for service or CCW use.

I had this problem on 2 such mags. HK developed new magazine body, with better geometry at point of cracking and I had all my mag bodies replaced at no charge. However, due to huge number of old mag bodies in use HK did not recomend those for service use. Recently HK completely redesigned this mags, with use of non-translucent polymer. Those are OK for service use.

BTW 9mm mags were OK because bodies had thicker walls than .40sw version.

[PatrioticDisorder]

Exactly right!. The mags are engineered for reliability in that size. I would rather have a reliable 15 round magazine than an unreliable 16 or 17 round one. Here are some problems I encountered with the S&W M&P9's 17 rounders:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?51142-Problems-with-M-amp-P9-mags-jamming



I would like it also, if it was developed by HK. Maybe an extended 12 rounder. Their extended mags for the USP-40 proved unreliable to the point where HK warned against using them for duty use, which means they should not be used for defensive use.

I'm guessing that problem was fixed long ago as I've yet to have any issues with any of my M&P magazines including 17 round magazines.

[teutonicpolymer]

16rd .40sw mags were not unreliable as they were. However clear translucent polymer was not as strong as on standard ones and (with heavier, steel baseplate) those were prone to cracking from multiple drops, especially on concrete floor. Those cracks could lead to baseplate separation (cracks were at lips that hold baseplate) in magazine loaded into pistol or carried in pouch, not something good for service or CCW use.

I had this problem on 2 such mags. HK developed new magazine body, with better geometry at point of cracking and I had all my mag bodies replaced at no charge. However, due to huge number of old mag bodies in use HK did not recomend those for service use. Recently HK completely redesigned this mags, with use of non-translucent polymer. Those are OK for service use.

BTW 9mm mags were OK because bodies had thicker walls than .40sw version.

New ones (9mm at least) are supposed to be metal lined if we are talking about the higher cap USP mags

[MountainRaven]

Thank you for posting this.

It seems that there are plenty of people who are curious but lack the intelligence to understand that they're curious. We all know people who complain about how the VP9, P30, &c. are as tall or taller than a Glock 17 while holding the same number of rounds as a fully-laden Glock 19. It also answers the question of why the easily seated 15-round VP9/P30 magazine is the same length as the easily seated 17-round Glock magazine with 16 rounds loaded.

Of course H&K's magazines are better engineered than the Glock magazines. That's a statement of fact. It is not an understanding of what it is that H&K did to achieve this. And what you have posted here should help all who have the intelligence to wonder.