View Full Version : ICYMI: Magpul Gen 3 AK mags (steel reinforced)
buckshot1220
01-23-15, 07:33
See here:
http://www.magpul.com/products/pmag%C2%AE-30-ak-akm-gen-m3?VariantID=
ETA: SHOT video http://youtu.be/Ndo2H_Z7eNM
At $27 MSRP I'm guessing after the hype these may be in the $22-$25 range. Not sure how that is going to work out in the AK community. I was hoping more for $15-$20 price point. I'll probably buy three for testing, but doubt I'll switch over all of my mag inventory.
To me, this AK mag doesn't really solve any issue other than weight savings (and maybe 922r compliance for some), unlike the AR mags which did solve some well known issues with USGI mags and did so at a very competitive price point.
Now, make a 20rd "Tanker" mag and you've got the attention of my checking account:fie:
I don't suppose they're going to come out with Ranger Plates that fit these? I'm using old-school 5.56 Magpuls on my mags now, but they're a PITA to get on, and add a lot of bulk that can make getting in and out of mag pouches difficult.
SpyderMan2k4
01-23-15, 09:18
While they are double or more what surplus steel mags cost, it'll be worth having at least a few just to not have sharp edges that seem to come out of nowhere
While they are double or more what surplus steel mags cost, it'll be worth having at least a few just to not have sharp edges that seem to come out of nowhere
If that's your main concern, Primary Arms (https://www.primaryarms.com/Magpul_AK_AKM_MOE_PMAG_30_7_62x39mm_Black_p/mag572-blk.htm) has the original (non-metal reinforced) Magpul AK mags for $10.
SpyderMan2k4
01-23-15, 09:53
That would be worth having a few of those for general range use and a few reinforced ones for harder use for sure.
I don't suppose they're going to come out with Ranger Plates that fit these? I'm using old-school 5.56 Magpuls on my mags now, but they're a PITA to get on, and add a lot of bulk that can make getting in and out of mag pouches difficult.
I'm not sure I'd be into using ranger plates on an AK mag, due to the way you have to grasp it to perform a reload.
At $27 MSRP I'm guessing after the hype these may be in the $22-$25 range. Not sure how that is going to work out in the AK community. I was hoping more for $15-$20 price point. I'll probably buy three for testing, but doubt I'll switch over all of my mag inventory.
To me, this AK mag doesn't really solve any issue other than weight savings (and maybe 922r compliance for some), unlike the AR mags which did solve some well known issues with USGI mags and did so at a very competitive price point.
How can you say that it doesn't solve any issue!?
It's a DOMESTICALLY-PRODUCED AK mag that has every opportunity to perform as well as the best AK mags on the market...... It absolutely solves a problem; no reliance on imports.
Even if it does cost full MSRP, if it performs as well as Circle 10's, I'll buy nothing but these going forward.
I'm not sure I'd be into using ranger plates on an AK mag, due to the way you have to grasp it to perform a reload.
I don't touch the magpul when manipulating the mag in and out of the rifle, but they do make it easier to pull the mags from pouches.
buckshot1220
01-26-15, 14:05
How can you say that it doesn't solve any issue!?
It's a DOMESTICALLY-PRODUCED AK mag that has every opportunity to perform as well as the best AK mags on the market...... It absolutely solves a problem; no reliance on imports.
Even if it does cost full MSRP, if it performs as well as Circle 10's, I'll buy nothing but these going forward.
Actually, it it has been a LONG time since I've had to buy AK mags, so after doing some research I will admit I may be a little off in my initial impressions. Damn, I don't think I've ever spent for than $12 for an AK mag (except ((10)) mags) and now I see that is pretty much a steal! So, OK, these do fill a void. At $27, if these do perform well, I guess that is a decent deal and a weight savings.
As for 922r benefits, that is going to be different for each individual. I have some pre-89 guns that it doesn't effect at all and my post-89 guns are already compliant regardless of mag.
Actually, it it has been a LONG time since I've had to buy AK mags, so after doing some research I will admit I may be a little off in my initial impressions. Damn, I don't think I've ever spent for than $12 for an AK mag (except ((10)) mags) and now I see that is pretty much a steal! So, OK, these do fill a void. At $27, if these do perform well, I guess that is a decent deal and a weight savings.
As for 922r benefits, that is going to be different for each individual. I have some pre-89 guns that it doesn't effect at all and my post-89 guns are already compliant regardless of mag.
The biggest "deal" about them is that your dollars are going to an American company, our government can't shut down imports and leave us with just Tapcos and ProMags, and they're actual competition for the best AK mags out there (Circle-10's... or at least, I expect them to perform as well... testing will feel that out).
Steel mags are about $10/piece now when you buy from SG... I've bought a few of their 10-mag deals, and they're great. But steel is heavy, steel dents, steel rusts... Circle 10's don't dent near as easy, there's a whole lot less on them to rust, and they're lighter. Bonus points for not leaving me bloody after a day of mag changes. The Magpul's should fill the same void, but at half the price, and exponentially higher availability.
922r stuff wasn't even on my radar, but that's a nice side deal.
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-15, 23:22
Steel front strap and rear tab but no steel reinforced feed lips . . .
Steel front strap and rear tab but no steel reinforced feed lips . . .
They've covered why they didn't do steel feed lips.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And they cave in the head of the Circle Ten monopoly - all good.
Moose-Knuckle
01-27-15, 04:50
They've covered why they didn't do steel feed lips.
Correct, TOS has a great video up of Duane going over the mags and he goes into the reason.
As a guy who has been into Kalashnikovs for fifteen years now, I'm not going to be replacing any of my E Bloc steel, Bakelite, or Circle 10 mags with a non steel lipped magazine for serious use. I have their all polymer mags as well as my fair share of US Palms. Great for training/competition but that's about it for me. YMMV.
This is why:
I've seen and heard the doubt about reinforced vs unreinforced feed lips, and I don't want there to be any misconception that we're trying to half measure the reinforced magazine. Believe me, we've tested this. We'll have more videos and such on the way for the Gen M3, but here are two that illustrate what I'm talking about. This is a Bulgy circle 10 on the left, which is, as I've said, a very good mag. Anti-tilt follower, steel on the lock ups, good geometry, etc. on the right is the PMAG AK MOE unreinforced magazine. Both mags are fully loaded with Wolf ammo. The MOE mag was dropped twice from six feet onto concrete to get the crack you see in the photo, only slightly visible from the rear where it's at, and only really noticeable when you pull it apart. Mag holds rounds and feeds 100% like this. The circle 10 mag on the left was dropped once from six feet. The left feed lip is bent to the point that it will not allow a round to be fully inserted to the rear on that side. This mag causes a stoppage every other round...the right side still feeds, the left, not so much. This is pretty consistently what you see. Yes, if the insert hasn't delaminated and raised an edge, and if the supporting polymer isn't cracked, you may be able to bend the reinforced mag back and get it to function to some degree. It will never be as good as it was new. If you're in the middle of it, and you drop your mag from 6 feet somewhow, (twice in the case of the MOE mag) which mag would you rather be faced with putting in your rifle to continue immediately?
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y366/spqr476/Mobile%20Uploads/image1-28.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/spqr476/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image1-28.jpg.html)
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y366/spqr476/Mobile%20Uploads/image2-12.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/spqr476/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image2-12.jpg.html)
Moose-Knuckle
01-28-15, 02:44
Duane thanks for sharing those pics and the story behind them.
IIRC when Magpul first debuted the PMAG (5.56) it was said that the Impact/Dust Cover would aid in protecting the feed lips from possibly creeping while stored loaded for long periods. I notice in the video you did at SHOT for the other site where you discussed the Sand M3 mags and the material you guys developed for them is the most durable to date. With the material you guys make your AK mags from have you experienced any feed lip creep in mags loaded for long periods?
I appreciate your responses.
You can't have too many mags. I'll buy a few and maybe a bunch.
Duane thanks for sharing those pics and the story behind them.
IIRC when Magpul first debuted the PMAG (5.56) it was said that the Impact/Dust Cover would aid in protecting the feed lips from possibly creeping while stored loaded for long periods. I notice in the video you did at SHOT for the other site where you discussed the Sand M3 mags and the material you guys developed for them is the most durable to date. With the material you guys make your AK mags from have you experienced any feed lip creep in mags loaded for long periods?
I appreciate your responses.
There were several reasons for the initial inclusion of the dust cover, one was the possible impression or fear of long term creep. It was considered conventional wisdom that it would occur, and it does occur with some polymer formulations sill on the market...just not with what we use, even in the early days, so the concern was unfounded. It was found as the mags were left loaded that after a few thousandths within a few hours, nothing further happened, even over time and with heat cycles. The new materials are extremely dimensionally stable, and there is no reason to store any PMAG with the dust cover if creep is the concern.
The other reasons for the dust cover are to keep junk out of the mag during transport and storage and to take impact pressure off the feed lips in the case of a significant drop or abuse, like speedball delivery of loaded mags, bouncing around in an ammo can in a GMV, etc., and those reasons are why they still exist.
Long term creep tests in high temp and heat cycled environments are still something we test for and look closely at, and none of our magazines suffer any ill effects related to this, with or without dust covers.
The sand material is proving to be impressive in testing, with results that were initially hard to believe. The regular GEN M3 material, as shown in our test videos, is quite stout, but the Sand material is a significant increase over even that performance.
There were several reasons for the initial inclusion of the dust cover, one was the possible impression or fear of long term creep. It was considered conventional wisdom that it would occur, and it does occur with some polymer formulations sill on the market...just not with what we use, even in the early days, so the concern was unfounded. It was found as the mags were left loaded that after a few thousandths within a few hours, nothing further happened, even over time and with heat cycles. The new materials are extremely dimensionally stable, and there is no reason to store any PMAG with the dust cover if creep is the concern.
The other reasons for the dust cover are to keep junk out of the mag during transport and storage and to take impact pressure off the feed lips in the case of a significant drop or abuse, like speedball delivery of loaded mags, bouncing around in an ammo can in a GMV, etc., and those reasons are why they still exist.
Long term creep tests in high temp and heat cycled environments are still something we test for and look closely at, and none of our magazines suffer any ill effects related to this, with or without dust covers.
The sand material is proving to be impressive in testing, with results that were initially hard to believe. The regular GEN M3 material, as shown in our test videos, is quite stout, but the Sand material is a significant increase over even that performance.
Sorry if I missed this somewhere but are the new steel AK mags going to be made out of the sand polymer?
H
Price point is right on par. These days any quality new mags sit around that mark. You can go cheaper if you're interested in undicking old surplus mags (which doesn't interest me any longer).
I'll give these a shot, as at least I shouldn't immediately pop the rear lug (or in the case of US Palm mags, distort it enough to render it useless).
jamesavery22
01-29-15, 13:47
Thanks for all the pics and posts Duane. Are the outer dimensions of the reinforced AK mags exactly the same as the original? I found the original mounted "higher" in the receiver than any other Ak mags. No issue, just curious.
Feeding and interface geometry will be pretty much identical, which was one of the reasons for doing the MOE first. One notable exception is that the front lug on the MOE is larger/longer since it is all poly...gives it pretty darned good strength for and unreinforced mag. This size is what causes issues with some hand guards like AMD and Romy G forends with the built in vert grip, but the strength was worth it to us. You can easily trim the nose of the MOE mag to fit with those firearms, if desired.
The GEN M3 will have a smaller front "nose" because of the reinforcements and not have the interference issues.
jamesavery22
01-29-15, 18:37
Thanks Duane. Sounds awesome. Will the size of the rear locking lug be the same? Would like that to be a hair larger.
Got a few on the way - I'll likely be in for more. Thank you sir!
In 20+ years of shooting AKs I've owned comm bloc bakelites (cool look but fragile, ime) and steel mags from every country that ever made them. I haven't seen anything in that time that would move me off Tapcos for the range and 3-gun with plenty of comm bloc steel for the zombie hordes/civil unrest/nuke/etc. Never warmed to the US Palm thing, and never saw myself paying for Circle 10s. My old beat-up Tapcos have run forever with spring changes. But these new jobbies have me reaching for my debit card. Excellent design, decent price, and (by all accounts) outstanding execution. Thanks for listening, Magpul!
Moose-Knuckle
02-02-15, 23:35
In 20+ years of shooting AKs . . . never saw myself paying for Circle 10s.
Back in 2000 to 2002 Bulgarian Circle 10 7.62 "waffles" could be had for $8.99. And 5.45 mags in black, fire brick red, and brown were going for under $5, all brand new never issued.
I still have unopened boxes of mags . . .
For you guys who missed out on those days the new Magpul mags will be a God send. Let's keep our fingers crossed that we don't see any bans after '16 so Magpul can evolve these mags like they have the original PMAGs. Would love to see these new AK mags made with the Sand material in 7.62 and 5.45.
Let's keep our fingers crossed that we don't see any bans after '16
On the contrary, keep them moving to make sure we don't see any bans.
This is why:
I've seen and heard the doubt about reinforced vs unreinforced feed lips, and I don't want there to be any misconception that we're trying to half measure the reinforced magazine. Believe me, we've tested this. We'll have more videos and such on the way for the Gen M3, but here are two that illustrate what I'm talking about. This is a Bulgy circle 10 on the left, which is, as I've said, a very good mag. Anti-tilt follower, steel on the lock ups, good geometry, etc. on the right is the PMAG AK MOE unreinforced magazine. Both mags are fully loaded with Wolf ammo. The MOE mag was dropped twice from six feet onto concrete to get the crack you see in the photo, only slightly visible from the rear where it's at, and only really noticeable when you pull it apart. Mag holds rounds and feeds 100% like this. The circle 10 mag on the left was dropped once from six feet. The left feed lip is bent to the point that it will not allow a round to be fully inserted to the rear on that side. This mag causes a stoppage every other round...the right side still feeds, the left, not so much. This is pretty consistently what you see. Yes, if the insert hasn't delaminated and raised an edge, and if the supporting polymer isn't cracked, you may be able to bend the reinforced mag back and get it to function to some degree. It will never be as good as it was new. If you're in the middle of it, and you drop your mag from 6 feet somewhow, (twice in the case of the MOE mag) which mag would you rather be faced with putting in your rifle to continue immediately?
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y366/spqr476/Mobile%20Uploads/image1-28.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/spqr476/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image1-28.jpg.html)
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y366/spqr476/Mobile%20Uploads/image2-12.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/spqr476/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image2-12.jpg.html)
While I understand your explanation I really don't plan on dropping any mags on the feed lips while loaded and it is my "non professional" opinion that steel reinforced feed lips will ultimately outlast polymer magazines that don't have them, just as your Gen 3 steel reinforced AK mags will likely outlast your MOE AK magazines given comparable wear and tear.
Maybe I just am still traumatized by those damn Zytel MAC 10 magazines from the 80s.
All that said, I'm excited about the Gen 3 AK mag and plan to buy more than a few as soon as they are available from my supplier. I already have more than enough SHTF AK mags and I doubt I will be subjecting the Gen 3s to anything they can't handle. Gen 3s seem like the perfect "regular use" magazine.
And if you do ever produce a Gen 4 with steel reinforced feed lips, I'll buy a bunch of those as well.
While we are at it I'd just like to say a few things like HK 33 / 93 and MP5 / HK94. I know you guys did G36 mags but you could really own the clone market if you wanted to. At least your magazines would work, unlike those Korean pieces of crap. Given that 33 and MP5 magazines typically sell for $50 or more I think the market is yours for the taking.
JaketheSnake
02-03-15, 10:06
Hopefully this forces others like kvar to drop prices on bulgy circle 10 magazines.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have no doubt that their polymer is better than C10s. Given that they have addressed the main hurdle in the AK mag design, the locking lugs, this does make it a serious use mag at the right price (for now). And anyone who builds in America AND breaks a stupid monopoly (from folks making 99 cents/hr) and charging HK prices, I'm all for it. MP has made C10 a collectible frill, given I have plenty of steel. That makes me happy. :cool:
As for 922r benefits, that is going to be different for each individual. I have some pre-89 guns that it doesn't effect at all and my post-89 guns are already compliant regardless of mag.
Good idea to not rely on the magazine to qualify the firearm as 922r compliant. If someone puts a foreign-made magazine in your weapon, you are now in violation of Federal law. Ooops....
Hopefully this forces others like kvar to drop prices on bulgy circle 10 magazines.
I'm kinda hoping it goes the other way. I want Circle 10s to become rare collectibles that skyrocket in price so I can sell mine off and get twice as many Magpuls with enough cash left over for ammo.
Screw logic, it could happen!
Oh well, nice thought anyway.
I'm kinda hoping it goes the other way. I want Circle 10s to become rare collectibles that skyrocket in price so I can sell mine off and get twice as many Magpuls with enough cash left over for ammo.
Screw logic, it could happen!
Oh well, nice thought anyway.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened. A large portion of the AK crowd is of the mind set that anything "commie" made is superior no matter what. It's the guys that post the "keep that crap off my AK" memes. For some reason think that Saigas are superior to every other piston based rifle because "they were made in the same factory Kalishnakov worked at.
I like Saigas, wood and steel/Bakelite is nice looking too, but come on.
MountainRaven
02-17-15, 20:27
Good idea to not rely on the magazine to qualify the firearm as 922r compliant. If someone puts a foreign-made magazine in your weapon, you are now in violation of Federal law. Ooops....
My understanding is that the text of 922r applies the law to the assembly of the firearm, not possession. So you cannot, legally, assemble a firearm that violates 922r, though you can possess one - so if a builder fails to include the requisite US-made parts, the builder is on the hook, not the person buying it.
IOW, if someone inserts a foreign-made magazine into your rifle, they have violated 922r, not you. If they hand it back to you with the foreign mag, you're fine. But if you remove the magazine, you cannot put the magazine back into the rifle without violating 922r.
(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I have never played one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.)
JaketheSnake
03-03-15, 12:42
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened. A large portion of the AK crowd is of the mind set that anything "commie" made is superior no matter what. It's the guys that post the "keep that crap off my AK" memes. For some reason think that Saigas are superior to every other piston based rifle because "they were made in the same factory Kalishnakov worked at.
I like Saigas, wood and steel/Bakelite is nice looking too, but come on.
The original soviet/combloc magazines have a well deserved reputation of being a readily available, cheap, reliable and well built magazines.
I fully understand and agree why people wouldn't want to stray from them. They do everything that is asked of a magazine. Their the epitomy of a battle tested magazine for shit sake.
I cant disagree with anyone saying they'll only use oem ak47 magazines.
If enough magpul magazines circulate in the wild for people to evaluate over time and given good competitve prices with surplus magazines that sentiment could change over time. But its not going to be easy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That sentiment won't change amongst those types they're the same people that still refuse to use polymer handguards... or Glocks... or AR15's...
Moose-Knuckle
03-18-15, 20:34
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened. A large portion of the AK crowd is of the mind set that anything "commie" made is superior no matter what. It's the guys that post the "keep that crap off my AK" memes. For some reason think that Saigas are superior to every other piston based rifle because "they were made in the same factory Kalishnakov worked at.
I like Saigas, wood and steel/Bakelite is nice looking too, but come on.
The SGL line of Saigas imported into the US by Arsenal is the AK equivalent to a Colt 6920. It is not only a collector thing to some but is in fact the closest US consumers can get to current Russian "mil-spec" rifles.
MountainRaven
03-19-15, 21:00
The SGL line of Saigas imported into the US by Arsenal is the AK equivalent to a Colt 6920. It is not only a collector thing to some but is in fact the closest US consumers can get to current Russian "mil-spec" rifles.
I'm pretty sure the SLRs aren't that far off from current Russian "mil-spec" rifles, though - apart from being made in a different factory in a different country.
IMHO, Bulgarian Arsenals are (sort of) to Russian Saigas what Colt Canada/Diemaco rifles are to Colt: Made in a different country by (what used to be) a different company, to very similar specs.
I'll say this... I had WASR's, Tantals, Yugos... they worked fine. Bought an SGL-21, and it ruined the rest. The SLR is no different, I don't care about "Russian", just quality. Even my Saiga, much as I love it, still isn't as wholly enjoyable to even just sit and mess with as the SGL-21 lol.
3ACR_Scout
04-18-15, 01:03
Would love to see these new AK mags made with the Sand material in 7.62 and 5.45.
DSG is listing both Black and Sand for pre-order - I'm guessing that means that MagPul has confirmed product numbers for both colors:
https://dsgarms.com/mag573
Any update on the release of these M3s? I'm looking forward to trying them out.
Dave
Moose-Knuckle
04-18-15, 01:30
DSG is listing both Black and Sand for pre-order - I'm guessing that means that MagPul has confirmed product numbers for both colors:
https://dsgarms.com/mag573
Any update on the release of these M3s? I'm looking forward to trying them out.
Dave
Hot damn, GEN M3 w/ steel inserts AND made from the SAND material at a $25 price point!
Flankenstein
04-18-15, 01:38
SLR's are every bit as good as SGL's. SLR's have more (almost all) AKM parts and the SGL have more AK-74M/AK-100 parts. The side folding SGL models (closest things to AK-74Ms and AK-103s) come with 5.5mm CIVILIAN trunnions and no pistol grip reinforcement plate.
So in terms of closest to "mil spec" SLR wins. Closest to current issue Russian rifle? SGL.
CrazyFingers
05-20-15, 10:52
Any updates from Magpul on availability of MAG573 (https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag%C2%AE-30-ak-akm-gen-m3)? MidwayUSA has them as "Overdue" for over a month now.
Well, we weren't quite to the point with the front insert where we could drop a loaded rifle from 500' and have it land muzzle down with the front edge of the mag catching a stack of cinder blocks and still have it survive, so we made one more change to the front insert. 'cause you know that's what someone is gonna do to it. :-)
Seriously, though, we'll start testing the latest iteration, which should be GTG, in early June, expect early-mid July shipping.
SpyderMan2k4
05-20-15, 11:12
There's an AK block at Paul-E-Palooza 3 in the middle of August I'm hoping to have some for.
I can't imagine a whole lot of things that would make it later than that, but I try not to say never...I thought we'd be shipping in March, but we just weren't happy with it.
SpyderMan2k4
05-20-15, 11:17
That's one of the things that makes you guys a solid company
There's already a gen 3? I bought a magpul Ak mag last year. I think it was a gen 1. What was different with the gen 2?
No, we use the gens as technology designator. GEN M2/MOE was the first magazine, still offered, will continue to be offered. GEN M3 will have full metal reinforcements of the front and rear engagement surfaces. Both magazines will coexist in the line, with MOE at $13.95 and M3 at $26.95 MSRP.
CrazyFingers
05-21-15, 08:40
Well, we weren't quite to the point with the front insert where we could drop a loaded rifle from 500' and have it land muzzle down with the front edge of the mag catching a stack of cinder blocks and still have it survive, so we made one more change to the front insert. 'cause you know that's what someone is gonna do to it. :-)
Seriously, though, we'll start testing the latest iteration, which should be GTG, in early June, expect early-mid July shipping.
Thank you SPQR476, that's what I thought might be going on.
This is exactly why I have no problems being an early adopter of Magpul gear. For so many products, you really want to wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation has been released so all the bugs are worked out. I have confidence that when a Magpul product is released, it will be right. But I know if it's not, you'll make it right.
In the same vein, I'm also waiting on 15-round G19 mags, which are a perfect example of a company that owns its mistakes and fixes them. Nobody can be perfect 100% of the time. It's how you handle your mistakes that set your reputation.
There's too damned few companies these days who treat their customers as well as Magpul.
Thank you, we certainly try. As you said, we don't catch everything, but we catch most everything, and if we don't, we won't leave you hanging.
19 mags are coming along nicely, the 17 mags are flowing again, and now that we have the slip in geometry caught and corrected, it's pretty easy to make the shorter mag with no drama.
Thanks for the update Duane.
In the meantime I'll stock up on the Gen2 AK pmags and Surplus steel until the Gen3's come out.
Plumber237
12-07-16, 15:11
I just got one of each of the Magpul 7.62 mags (MOE & Gen 3) to go along with my new Arsenal SAM7R to see which magazines function with it. Surprisingly the MOE AK one seats great, actually has the best audible click and releases the smoothest out of the 4 different types that I tried, however I cannot get the Gen 3 mag to seat. I thought it was kind of weird that only one of the two magpul types would seat, as they seem to be damn near identical, minus the front tab as Duane had previously mentioned. I'm fine with it since the MOE ones are cheaper, I'll just stock up on those. I also tried a circle 10 magazine, which seats fine, but is an absolute bitch to remove...which surprised me since I've heard so many positive things about them. I know AKs can be picky with magazines so I wanted to try out a bunch. Has anyone else had something similar happen where their AK seems to only function with one of the two magpul types?
MountainRaven
12-07-16, 16:59
My experience with the Bulgarian AKs of late has been similar: Steel combloc works fine, MOE Pmags work fine, bakelites work fine, surplus polymer Finnish mags work fine, but US PALM and Gen M3 Pmags are stiff and require some work to get to lock in and rock out without difficulty. Fortunately, the magazines will get better with time as the plastic molding sticking to the steel locking tabs wears off. But that can take a while.
Plumber237
12-07-16, 17:18
My experience with the Bulgarian AKs of late has been similar: Steel combloc works fine, MOE Pmags work fine, bakelites work fine, surplus polymer Finnish mags work fine, but US PALM and Gen M3 Pmags are stiff and require some work to get to lock in and rock out without difficulty. Fortunately, the magazines will get better with time as the plastic molding sticking to the steel locking tabs wears off. But that can take a while.
I appreciate the info. That's what I figured with the Circle 10 that some of the polymer wearing off will make it less tough to remove...hell the metal locking tab is getting a groove worn in it from the magazine lever even. I'll probably run MOE mags since their they're like $13 compared to the $45 that Circle 10s are going for, full polymer doesn't scare me off...that shit's crazy tough.
Yes, the metal tabs are a bit less forgiving of fit. Generally, if they fit a bulgy smoothly, they will fit a GEN M3 just fine, but I'm still on my first batch of MOE mags out of the gate in my kit, and no tab failures years and lots of use later.
Plumber237
12-09-16, 22:30
Thanks Duane! I'm plenty happy with the MOE mag fitting great, this is my first AK so I'll be starting from scratch for gear and your mags are a steal...good to hear that your original MOEs are still running strong, not that I'd expect anything different from Magpul.
I'm looking forward to the polymer 60rd AK drum mags that are almost certainly in the works...
RetroRevolver77
12-12-16, 00:59
I'm looking forward to the polymer 60rd AK drum mags that are almost certainly in the works...
Are the steel 75 round drums broken?
Nope but I'd definitely buy a PMAG version.
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My experience with the Bulgarian AKs of late has been similar: Steel combloc works fine, MOE Pmags work fine, bakelites work fine, surplus polymer Finnish mags work fine, but US PALM and Gen M3 Pmags are stiff and require some work to get to lock in and rock out without difficulty. Fortunately, the magazines will get better with time as the plastic molding sticking to the steel locking tabs wears off. But that can take a while.
I just received my first AK last week - an Arsenal SAM7SF. Like you said, Bulgarian steel mags work fine. Magpul Gen M3s, not so much. Seating the mag is tough. Removing it is impossible unless I creating a mechanical lever between the mag release and trigger guard and pry open the release. I purchased 2 of the Magpuls and both have this issue.
I like Magpul gear, but I would not recommend these mags if you are shooting a Bulgarian AK. Given the wide range of tolerances in the AK world, I would not be surprised if this phenomenon is specific to Arsenal AKs. On the other hand, I have a Russian Molot Vepr FM-AK47-11 inbound (to show solidarity with our President Elect) and will be disappointed if the problem persists.
It's an AK, folks. Catch geometry is all over the map. M3 tabs and MOE tabs are really close in actual spec, but both are towards the upper end of tight vs loose. The polymer tabs are much more forgiving of "seating in" with a few insertions as the catch accommodates the tab. The steels not so much, and if you've got a longer catch, it may require a file stroke or two. The critical dimension is from the top of the tab to the presentation height of the round, and that is the same, and correct, on both mags for the most reliable feeding. If we made the catch towards the min side of "right" there are a lot of guns with sloppy, shorter, or worn catches that may not place the mag and thus the base of the top rounds in the correct position for most reliable feeding with a thinner tab dimension. So, we erred on the side that allow them to work in the most guns. You can't add material, but the catch is 17-4 SS, and is plenty strong even at half the thickness that it is, but it should only be literally a stroke or two even on the tightest guns that are "correct". The catch should hold the mag with the top of the catch against the selector stop with a max of 1mm of play when fully seated forward for best reliability, and the M3s allow that to happen in the largest range of guns. C10s do have a bit of range in tab dimensions, and in guns with tighter catches, I've fit quite a few C10 tabs over the years to work with various guns, where others do not require fitting in the same gun (not talking about removing any flashed poly, although that can indeed be a factor) and I've adjusted quite a few mag catches that came too tight to work with many mags, although you don't see that as much anymore, now that there aren't the numerous saigas that came in with catch geometry set up for the mags that work with no billet guide on the trunnion. I check catch geometry with gunplumbers guide, and if it's too long, I fit the catch. If it's long, but in spec, I will generally fit the mags.
Plumber237
12-29-16, 14:08
Finally got out to shoot my SAM7, and I was way more impressed/comfortable with the Magpul MOE mags than the Bulgarian Circle 10. Maybe it's just me, but for all the hype that the Circle 10s get as being the gold standard, I am not really a fan at all. Plastic burrs/imperfections on every corner, the 2nd round down continuously scoots forward to hang up on the feed lips when loading a new round, and it's like a sandstorm of black flakes everytime you drop the mag out. The Magpul ones have clean edges, the rounds don't scoot forward while loading, and it has a way better & more consistent seating click & release much less clunky that the Circle 10s.
Flankenstein
12-29-16, 14:11
Finally got out to shoot my SAM7, and I was way more impressed/comfortable with the Magpul MOE mags than the Bulgarian Circle 10. Maybe it's just me, but for all the hype that the Circle 10s get as being the gold standard, I am not really a fan at all. Plastic burrs/imperfections on every corner, the 2nd round down continuously scoots forward to hang up on the feed lips when loading a new round, and it's like a sandstorm of black flakes everytime you drop the mag out. The Magpul ones have clean edges, the rounds don't scoot forward while loading, and it has a way better & more consistent seating click & release much less clunky that the Circle 10s.
Communism vs capitalism. Shame on you. Respect the ((10)).
Plumber237
12-29-16, 14:12
Communism vs capitalism. Shame on you. Respect the ((10)).
Also the reason that one costs $13 and one costs $45...lol
Flankenstein
12-29-16, 15:27
Also the reason that one costs $13 and one costs $45...lol
Wrong.
Plumber237
12-29-16, 16:39
Wrong.
I know, import costs and material costs...I'm guessing your commie vs cap comment was comparing the commie worker vs an employee who actually cares about what they're making
Flankenstein
12-29-16, 18:30
I know, import costs and material costs...I'm guessing your commie vs cap comment was comparing the commie worker vs an employee who actually cares about what they're making
Kvar has that market in a stranglehold and can set their pricing. Cheif Thunder days are long gone. Waffle mags should and could cost less than $15.
KalashniKEV
12-29-16, 18:34
I know, import costs and material costs...
Nope.
It's all markup.
I got my ((10)) waffles from Chief Thunder back in the day for $8/ea.
Plumber237
12-29-16, 18:36
Nope.
It's all markup.
I got my ((10)) waffles from Chief Thunder back in the day for $8/ea.
Whaaaaaaaaat!?
KalashniKEV
12-29-16, 18:39
Kvar has that market in a stranglehold and can set their pricing. Cheif Thunder days are long gone. Waffle mags should and could cost less than $15.
Ha, we were both writing about the Chief at the same time. I just left my reply window open while I went to make a drink.
Whaaaaaaaaat!?
Why should they cost more than $10?
High quality Euro-pattern steel is still going for around that.
Plumber237
12-29-16, 20:11
Not saying that they should cost more than $10, I'm just surprised that they quadrupled with one company cornering the market on them, I can see a decent price increase, but 4x....crazy
I'm just pumped that Magpul has entered the market for some competition.
KalashniKEV
12-29-16, 21:21
Magpul has entered the market for some competition.
They're going to have to get the prices on the metal lined mags down where the MOE mags are before they can really compete.
You can get 2 x high quality Polish steel mags from AIM and still have a few bucks left over for a bottle of Żywiec for what one of the serious-use AK PMAGs goes for at Primary.
They're going to have to get the prices on the metal lined mags down where the MOE mags are before they can really compete.
You can get 2 x high quality Polish steel mags from AIM and still have a few bucks left over for a bottle of Żywiec for what one of the serious-use AK PMAGs goes for at Primary.
I've had such bad luck with steel mags that I'd rather spend the extra $10 and not worry about it. I know I'm in the minority, but also that I'm not the only one. Plus many of the MOEs seem to be fine as is.
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KalashniKEV
12-30-16, 09:43
I've had such bad luck with steel mags that I'd rather spend the extra $10 and not worry about it. I know I'm in the minority, but also that I'm not the only one. Plus many of the MOEs seem to be fine as is.
Whoa!
Seriously?
Do you live in that "upside down world" from Stranger Things and do battle with the Demogorgon?
Whoa!
Seriously?
Do you live in that "upside down world" from Stranger Things and do battle with the Demogorgon?
I know there are different types/countries of origin, so I'm sure I just never got the right ones but I went through about six for my SAM7R that ether didn't fit the gun or had hardly noticeable dents in the body that were just big enough to bind the follower.
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Sorry to bring this old thread back to life, but has anyone actually put their hands on a PMAGŪ 30 AK/AKM GEN M3™ (MAG573-SND) in the sand color? I see several websites listing the part number, but they all have either a stock photo of the black M3 version or a pic of the MOE Sand version. Have the MAG573-SND magazines ever been released?
3ACR_Scout
03-16-18, 20:55
I have two of the Sand M3 mags that I got from Gun Mag Warehouse in January when they were on sale for $15.99. Unfortunately they’re back up to $23.99 now:
Magpul PMAG AK/AKM Gen M3 7.62x39mm 30-Round Magazine (https://gunmagwarehouse.com/magpul-pmag-ak-akm-gen-m3-7-62x39mm-30-round-magazine-3311.html)
I have two of the Sand M3 mags that I got from Gun Mag Warehouse in January when they were on sale for $15.99. Unfortunately they’re back up to $23.99 now:
Magpul PMAG AK/AKM Gen M3 7.62x39mm 30-Round Magazine (https://gunmagwarehouse.com/magpul-pmag-ak-akm-gen-m3-7-62x39mm-30-round-magazine-3311.html)
Sweet! Thanks man. They actually have real pics of the sand version too.
Moose-Knuckle
03-17-18, 13:19
IIRC Magpul has since discontinued their Sand color mags all together.
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