View Full Version : Horror Story: M&P 10 and S&W Customer Service
Have you ever heard that it is risky to buy a gun with a proprietary design, because you may not be able to get spare parts for it if something breaks or wears out? I am here to tell you that this is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products. Here's the story:
Last year, I got a lightly used M&P 10 on trade at a LGS. Upon range testing, I learned that like many M&P 10s (as well as DPMS'), it was severely undergassed. It would never lock back on empty and suffered very frequent "bolt over" malfunctions. I remedied this by drilling the gas port to a larger size. After that, the rifle worked flawlessly for several hundred rounds. I did notice something strange about the bore though... there was, for lack of a better term, a "ring" around the bore halfway between the gas block and the muzzle. It looked like the same size and depth as a land of rifling, and appeared to me to be machined that way. I thought it might constitute a tight spot in the bore, but I didn't worry too much about it because the rifle was working fine and accuracy was very acceptable (consistent 2 MOA with Lake City M80 ball). I realize in hindsight that it was a poor decision to keep shooting the rifle after noticing this. Learn from my error! I also installed a Troy TRX 308 free float handguard over a low profile gas block, swapped the carbine stock setup out for a fixed stock, and put a scope on the rifle.
I used this rifle, along with my M&P 40 pistol, in the Pecos Run 'n Gun last year. This is a 6+ mile run through the desert with 7 shooting stations along the way. The rifle was shooting great... I got the best times on several stages using it, including the 400 yard stage. West Texas was experiencing record floods the weekend of the Run 'n Gun, and traversing the course required crossing some standing water that was up to waist deep at one point. I carried the rifle slung in the "low ready" type position across my chest, muzzle down, so the rifle got wet during this crossing. I was always taught to retract the charging handle and shake the rifle muzzle down after getting it wet, so that is what I did. Internet lore has it that this is only necessary on smaller bore rifles like 5.56, but I did it anyway out of precaution. At the next shooting station, I fired at a not-too-difficult 200 yard rifle target. I called the shot good when it broke, but it did not score a hit. The rifle also jammed... a "bolt over" malfunction like it used to suffer when it had too small of a gas port. I cleared it and fired again. Again I called the shot good but didn't get a hit, and again the malfunction. The Range Officer told me I was hitting way low, like 20 yards in front of me. I thought he must have been mistaken because of how I called the shot, and thought that if I missed, it wasn't by much. I cleared the jam and fired again. This time I saw the mud fly in the bottom of my FOV... I was indeed hitting way low. Something wasn't right. I checked the scope mount and confirmed that it was tight. It was then that I noticed the barrel. To my horror, the barrel had a split in it, centered about halfway between muzzle and gas block, with cracks extending almost to the muzzle on one end and almost to the gas block on the other. Amazingly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened or for the two rounds I fired through it afterward. I'm not sure exactly why the split occurred, other than that generally barrels rupture due to overpressure, usually from an obstructed bore. My best guess is that a combination of the tight spot "ring" in the barrel possibly in addition to residual water droplets in the barrel combined to spike pressure over what the barrel could handle.
Now on to my dealings with S&W customer service. The first action I took was to call them at their location up in Yankeeland (NH) and ask how much a barrel would cost. I was surprised when the CS rep told me that they don't sell barrels! I told her that I have a rifle with a ruptured barrel, and that I need a new barrel to get it working again. She told me that while they don't sell barrels, if I send it in, they might be able to re-barrel it for me. So I got a shipping label from them and sent it off. I heard nothing from them for about 2 months later, when I got a letter that stated that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they would sell me a new rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose contact info was on the letter, and told him that it was fine not to warranty it, and that I would pay for the repairs myself. He said he would need to talk to his superiors about that and get back to me. He also confirmed again that they do not sell barrels. After not hearing anything for a couple weeks or so, I called, left messages, and eventually got a call back from one of their senior engineers. He told me that it is their policy not to replace just barrels, so they would be unable to repair my rifle. I confirmed that they do not sell barrels. I asked him, "so you won't warranty it, you won't repair it, and you won't sell me a barrel? I just have an $1100 paperweight?" He seemed embarrassed to have to tell me this, but he said that yes, that is currently their policy as relayed to him by management. He said that if it were up to him, he would just re-barrel the rifle for a small fee, but that he was being told it is against policy to re-barrel rifles.
The M&P 10 has a proprietary barrel extension and bolt carrier group, and S&W is the only company that makes barrels for this rifle. The rifle is currently in production and there is no shortage of them on gun store shelves, so I know they are producing the barrels for them... apparently they can't be bothered to pull one from production to help a customer in need, and would rather allocate the part to production, so they can sell another rifle to some other sucker. So here is my warning... if you buy a firearm with proprietary parts, you better make absolutely sure the manufacturer is a company with good product support and customer service. If not, you might risk having an expensive paperweight, like me, for want of a couple hundred dollar part.
Also apparently all the M&P 10s out there will be defunct after their owners shoot out the original barrel, if S&W keeps these policies up. It really baffles me why companies purposefully make decisions like this and accept the kind of reputation it earns them. Well, you are warned -- buy S&W rifles at your own risk.
this doesn't surprise me. Smith and Wesson have some serious management issues when it comes to common sense policy. After the abysmal failure of the M&P pistol line (Supposedly the new models as of 2015 are good to go but that only took 6 years), I will never buy a S&W product again, ashame as it is a classic American company. Sorry to year about you getting ****ed over by S&W.
If a mod or staff member deletes a thread, there's usually a pretty good reason. It's also frowned upon to start a new one after the original has been deleted or locked.
I also find it interesting that your story has changed with regards to your dealings with S&W. It's pretty apparent that your only goal here is to defame S&W. You've lost all credibility with me & quite likely, many others.
The reason given for deleting the original thread on this subject was that I didn't go into how I got the rifle, or about all of the modifications I made to it during my ownership. I have included all of that info in this thread.
What part of the story do you think I changed?
As I have said before, it is fine if you are skeptical about what I am saying... these policies are ridiculous enough that I completely understand if someone doesn't believe me. Fortunately, what I am saying can be easily verified by giving S&W a call and asking how much a M&P 10 barrel is. 1-800-331-0852.
The reason given for deleting the original thread on this subject was that I didn't go into how I got the rifle, or about all of the modifications I made to it during my ownership. I have included all of that info in this thread.
What part of the story do you think I changed?
As I have said before, it is fine if you are skeptical about what I am saying... these policies are ridiculous enough that I completely understand if someone doesn't believe me. Fortunately, what I am saying can be easily verified by giving S&W a call and asking how much a M&P 10 barrel is. 1-800-331-0852.
Your first go around (before admitting to not being the original owner & to the unauthorized barrel modifications you performed) you sent the rifle out & S&W determined that the barrel damage was not due to poor materials or workmanship & therefore they would not warranty the barrel. You then stated that you asked if they would repair it if you paid for it, but that was only after they told you they wouldn't warranty it.
This time you state that you contacted them & asked them upfront if you could purchase a replacement barrel, at which point they told you "No".
The whole thing reads to me that you tried to scam a replacement barrel out of S&W & when they told you "No", you became bitter & is now on a mission to trash them.
I'm not doubting that some parts may not be as accessible as an end user might prefer. I just think you have malicious intent for starting these threads.
I got the rifle back earlier this week. Pics are posted on another site here: https://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?209913-Horror-Story-M-amp-P-10-and-S-amp-W-s-Customer-Service&p=2699025#post2699025
BuzzinSATX
01-31-15, 12:39
Way I see it, even if the barrel split because he did something stupid/unsafe, if he's speaking the truth on S&W not being willing to re barrel or even sell him a barrel, I see that as something I'd want to avoid (as a consumer).
Take Care,
Buzz
Your first go around (before admitting to not being the original owner & to the unauthorized barrel modifications you performed) you sent the rifle out & S&W determined that the barrel damage was not due to poor materials or workmanship & therefore they would not warranty the barrel. You then stated that you asked if they would repair it if you paid for it, but that was only after they told you they wouldn't warranty it.
This time you state that you contacted them & asked them upfront if you could purchase a replacement barrel, at which point they told you "No".
The whole thing reads to me that you tried to scam a replacement barrel out of S&W & when they told you "No", you became bitter & is now on a mission to trash them.
I'm not doubting that some parts may not be as accessible as an end user might prefer. I just think you have malicious intent for starting these threads.
This...
The stated intent seems a little hard to miss... early on in the thread link he'd provided for the damage pics:
31406
Well yes... they did screw me out of $1100. I posted this because I think most people who are considering a S&W rifle purchase would like to know about the parts situation. Yes, I am hoping that this will cause plenty of people who would have otherwise bought one of these rifles to change their minds. I would definitely like to make it a losing proposition financially to treat a customer like this.
You posted AGAIN because you're a charter member of the FSA, expecting others to pay for your mistakes. You're also one of those folks most Companies don't want as a customer.
Own up, man up and give it up.
the 556 guy
02-01-15, 10:36
If henschman is pissed now, or when the barrel split, who cares. S&W won't sell replacement parts. A replacement barrels should cost $250-500, right? Except, because S&W won't sell one, they offer to sell him a replacement rifle. That sounds like a company policy to avoid.
I had been wanting one of these rifles until now. They used to retail around $1600, now closer to $1000. Not interested if S&W's parts policy means replacing the rifle when a failure is not warranty issue.
People like me like to keep things simple.
A) You purchased a used rifle and modified the gas port. S&W will not repair the rifle under warranty. That is understandable.
B) S&W will not sell you a barrel. We do not know if the sale of a barrel or other parts will be available to the public in the future. The potential for financial gain through sales versus incurred cost by the company and liability issues will dictate whether or not S&W will sell parts to the public in the future.
It is evident you are frustrated. I suggest you store the rifle and wait to see if parts will become available at a later date. They may not sell barrels to the public, but we cannot rule out future sales of parts to reputable gunsmiths.
the 556 guy
02-01-15, 10:44
They may not sell barrels to the public, but we cannot rule out future sales of parts to reputable gunsmiths.
To me, this sounds reasonable. My only reservation is that these rifles seem to have been released in 2012, according to the copyright on the AR-10 user manual. If Grant has the ability to get replacement barrels from S&W, there is no issue. I know S&W used to be tight-fisted on their M&P pistol parts.
SpeedRacer
02-01-15, 10:50
A) You purchased a used rifle and modified the gas port. S&W will not repair the rifle under warranty. That is understandable.
B) S&W will not sell you a barrel. We do not know if the sale of a barrel or other parts will be available to the public in the future. The potential for financial gain through sales versus incurred cost by the company and liability issues will dictate whether or not S&W will sell parts to the public in the future.
That's about what I got out of it. I don't think S&W "screwed" anyone out of anything.
Cliff Notes: Heads up guys, S&W won't sell replacement barrels. Take into consideration before drilling holes in yours and playing in the mud with it.
the 556 guy
02-01-15, 10:54
Agreed that S&W hasn't screwed anyone at all. No question.
But aren't barrels wear parts? You expect to need to replace them if it's not a safe queen. Granted, .308 is pricey to wear out a barrel these days, but still...
BuzzinSATX
02-01-15, 10:54
This is the part from the original post on this thread that I have the most issue with. OP is recalling a discussion with a S&W rep:
"She told me that while they don't sell barrels, if I send it in, they might be able to re-barrel it for me. So I got a shipping label from them and sent it off. I heard nothing from them for about 2 months later, when I got a letter that stated that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they would sell me a new rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose contact info was on the letter, and told him that it was fine not to warranty it, and that I would pay for the repairs myself."
OP owns a S&W rifle and needs it fixed, and S&W won't fix it at the owners expense? WFT???
People like me like to keep things simple.
A) You purchased a used rifle and modified the gas port. S&W will not repair the rifle under warranty. That is understandable.
B) S&W will not sell you a barrel. We do not know if the sale of a barrel or other parts will be available to the public in the future. The potential for financial gain through sales versus incurred cost by the company and liability issues will dictate whether or not S&W will sell parts to the public in the future.
It is evident you are frustrated. I suggest you store the rifle and wait to see if parts will become available at a later date. They may not sell barrels to the public, but we cannot rule out future sales of parts to reputable gunsmiths.
This... per my inquiry to S&W regarding M&P10 parts:
"Just wanted to touch base with you on something that just came up. We were all informed by our director that we do not have parts YET, but we planning on having them in the very near future. Thanks for your support!"
31407
They didn't go into detail as to why they didn't have them available direct to consumer at the moment, but at least confirmed they planned on changing that soon, which may be helpful info to those currently using their rig or maybe considering it...
SpeedRacer
02-01-15, 11:08
OP owns a S&W rifle and needs it fixed, and S&W won't fix it at the owners expense? WFT???
Not terribly surprising given that the rifle was modified by the end user and suffered catastrophic damage determined not to be caused by a manufacturing defect. That would be a hell of a liability for S&W to assume.
This is the part from the original post on this thread that I have the most issue with. OP is recalling a discussion with a S&W rep:
"She told me that while they don't sell barrels, if I send it in, they might be able to re-barrel it for me. So I got a shipping label from them and sent it off. I heard nothing from them for about 2 months later, when I got a letter that stated that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they would sell me a new rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose contact info was on the letter, and told him that it was fine not to warranty it, and that I would pay for the repairs myself."
OP owns a S&W rifle and needs it fixed, and S&W won't fix it at the owners expense? WFT???
You came into the conversation late. This is the second thread created by the OP. The first one was deleted because he was busted not telling the whole truth regarding this situation. He changed his story for this second go around. You fell for it: hook, line, and sinker. The OP has lost all credibility with myself and several others who have followed along. There's no telling what the actual truth is at this point & the OP has also proven that his goal here is to slander S&W with malicious intent. IMO, this thread should also be deleted and the OP be dealt some disciplinary measures.
Administrative note: This thread has been reviewed and discussed by management and with Henschman. It can remain open to allow discussion of the issues that OP is experiencing with the product he purchased, and any further developments or fixes that may develop. It is M4C's policy to allow such discussion and critical review of a manufacturer product's and policies as long as there is some foundation to it and it remains within site rules.
It is also M4C's policy to keep discussions about the topics and issues, not the members. Henceforth, let's keep the thread about the rifle itself.
He also tried to get S&W to warranty the barrel FIRST. It wasn't until after they told him that they wouldn't give him a free barrel that he requested to purchase one.
*it's pretty sad that the Staff/Mods allow this garbage to remain open after all that has been exposed. I guess as long as the story keeps changing...
Gas port modifications have been something people have done for years. This should NOT have caused the barrel to split especially considering it did not split AT the sight of modification.
That said, I've seen other M&P10 pictures with the barrel split in the exact same spot. I've also seen reports of other people noticing the stamping marks inside of their barrels.
I would have expected Smith to replace the barrel too unless they could show proof beyond a doubt the issue was caused by the user.
So OK whatever, they use the "user modification" as an excuse to void the warrant. So sell him a new barrel, he was willing to pay for it.
I'm in the market for some flavor of AR-10 and given Smith is not supporting their rifles with parts, I won't be buying one now. Especially after seeing more than one picture of a split barrel and stamping issues.
I'm just going to build something using a Aero M5 receiver set so I know I've got something I can buy parts for.
A couple of quick questions about the ring you noted seeing in the bore:
I did notice something strange about the bore though... there was, for lack of a better term, a "ring" around the bore halfway between the gas block and the muzzle. It looked like the same size and depth as a land of rifling, and appeared to me to be machined that way... .
Can you confirm its location now that the barrel's split, and provide pics to get a better look at what you'd described and where it is? The ones you posted elsewhere give an overall impression of the aftermath, but the devil's in the details.
3141731418
Given you referenced the ring appeared to be machined, said machining should now be more visible given the tube's split in half and you'll have better access to see it with proper lighting. Like the rifling, it's not likely going to disappear in a blast unless the area in question completely disintegrated.
Also, you indicated you'd received a letter stating that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials. Did you reference this when you'd spoken with the senior engineer about it and question what they thought happened to it if it wasn't the result of lacking workmanship / materials? It seems like they would have been able to offer some sort of feedback regarding what they suspected actually happened to it... and given they had it for 2+ months, I'd wager it went through their onsite metallurgical lab - particularly if there were questions of product liability and warranty coverage - so there should be a report of their findings someplace...
OP's post changed from last time. He believed the so called ring was not due to the stamping issue.
Every report of the stamping issue on the S&W forum has been taken care of by their warranty repair.
I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend's rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well -- he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn't see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn't think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.
Bolt_Overide
02-03-15, 17:51
Warranty issue aside, the refusal to sell him a barrel, which they chose to make proprietary and is available no where else, and insist he must buy a new gun has cost smith and wesson any future business from me. I see it as just plain shady.
Warranty issue aside, the refusal to sell him a barrel, which they chose to make proprietary and is available no where else, and insist he must buy a new gun has cost smith and wesson any future business from me. I see it as just plain shady.
Please tell me which manufacturers are making somewhat new proprietary 308 AR rifles
and also which of those manufacturers will and won't supply you with spare barrels when you obstruct yours and blow it up.
That way all of those manufacturers can be trashed across multiple forums.
Please tell me which manufacturers are making somewhat new proprietary 308 AR rifles
and also which of those manufacturers will and won't supply you with spare barrels when you obstruct yours and blow it up.
That way all of those manufacturers can be trashed across multiple forums.
Pretty sure my HK MR762 falls into that category and its a heck of a lot better and more expensive than the M&P.
Bolt_Overide
02-04-15, 02:16
Please tell me which manufacturers are making somewhat new proprietary 308 AR rifles
and also which of those manufacturers will and won't supply you with spare barrels when you obstruct yours and blow it up.
That way all of those manufacturers can be trashed across multiple forums.
You misunderstand. My issue is, customer has their product, regardless of root cause, product does not work, business has part that will make product work, will not sell to customer, and insists customer must buy new product.
This, in my opinion is shady. I do not single out S&W, any business that feels that way would not get my money.
Then again, I usually avoid firearms that I cannot easily get replacement parts for.
OP is conveniently leaving out the comment in his first deleted thread where he found this so called ring NOT to be anything like the stamping issue. Maybe he is omitting this since the stamping issue is now being erroneously linked to the two obstructed blown barrels? As far as I'm aware, the stamping defect has NOT caused any barrel ruptures, only unacceptable accuracy and S&W has taken care of those defective barrels. The folklore of blown barrels is all over the net and being taken as gospel even though I've only seen two guys, counting this OP, that have had this occur AFTER FIRING WITH A BARREL OBSTRUCTION.
The devil is in the details and so far the OP has changed or left out different parts of his account. First, he acted as if he sent the rifle back hoping to get it repaired under warranty due to this mysterious ring (the most likely scenario, IMO :)). Then after he was called out for leaving out the fact he bought the rifle second hand, it was operating terribly and he drilled the gas port, only then does he backpedal and say he asked first if they sold barrels before he sent the rifle back.
The other guy on TOS said S&W sent his barrel to Metlab for testing even though his rifle wasn't covered under warranty either. S&W did this at their expense without obligation to do so. I find it hard to believe S&W didn't also send this OP barrel to a lab but on TOS the OP insists they didn't test it. What isn't clear is if they told him directly they did not test the barrel. OP will not produce the letter he received or explain any further.
So you may say none of that matters even though OP has made it THE issue by posting it. He doesn't care if you believe his overdramatic, constantly changing tale. He won't even provide emails or letters to give himself more credibility. I will quote his original post below and you can decide for yourself.
You say S&W either should have replaced the barrel (on a rifle that has been through hell and high water...literally) not knowing what other work the OP has done or what parts were damaged by the kaboom. Or they should just pull a barrel out of production, shorten their WARRANTY supply just to sell to OP after he has literally abused the rifle. Or for any other guy that can't get his rifle fixed.
I predict when S&W does sell barrels...
Either you guys will be on the net complaining they are too expensive or if they are affordable you will be complaining they are sold out and they should crack the whip on the line ASAP :D
Today's entitlement mentality...
Have you ever heard that its dangerous to buy a firearm with a proprietary design, because you are stuck relying on just one company for replacement parts? I'm here to tell you that is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products.
I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend's rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well -- he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn't see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn't think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.
Fast forward to last year's Pecos Run 'n Gun... a 6 mile run through the desert in West Texas, with shooting stations along the way. I carried my M&P 10 for the event, along with my M&P .40 pistol. I was using Lake City 147 grain M80 ball for the event. The rifle shot great -- I shot the best time on several of the rifle stages with it. Now a little context -- this event occurred in the middle of the largest flood in living memory in that area, and there was some standing water to traverse. At one point in the course, I crossed some thigh deep water, even falling into a waist-deep hole at one point. After clearing the water, I retracted the charging handle and shook the rifle muzzle-down, just as a precaution against having any water retained in the bore (I was carrying the rifle slung across my chest in a "low ready" type position, and it did go partly under water during the crossing). When I got to the next stage, which involved a not-particularly-difficult 200 yard rifle shot, I fired a shot that I called good when it broke, but which did not score a hit. I also had a failure-to-feed malfunction. I cleared the malf and fired again... again calling the shot good but getting no hit, and having the same malf. The RO said that I was hitting way in front of the target, like 20 yards out. I disregarded this because I thought if it was a miss, it was a very close one and he must be mistaken. I fired another shot I called good... but this time I saw the mud fly in front of me from the bullet's impact, way lower than I was aiming, and again had the malf. Now I knew something was wrong, and began inspecting the rifle. Loose scope mount? Nope, it's tight. I then noticed the barrel. To my horror, it was split down the middle, with the split centered about halfway between the gas block and muzzle, and showing daylight all the way through. Incredibly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened. Well, needless to say, that event was ruined, and I was unable to complete the rest of the stages. Other runners saw the rifle and thought that I must have plugged the barrel with mud. however, I never dropped the rifle or pushed the muzzle into the ground (it would have had to go in pretty far to not only plug up the flash hider but also the muzzle itself)... the worst I did was crawl under some barbed wire with the rifle cradled in front of me, getting a little muddy, and going through the water with it. Upon reflection, I thought about the strange ring in the rifle's bore, and realized that the barrel had split right at that point.
Now on to dealing with S&W's customer service. I called and was eventually able to reach a CS rep, who e-mailed me a return shipping label, and I sent the rifle off. About 2 months later, I received a letter stating that they determined that the split barrel was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they were declining to fix it under warranty. They did, however, offer to sell me a replacement rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose name was on the letter, and asked how much a new barrel for the rifle would cost. I was shocked when he told me that they do not currently sell barrels separately for the M&P 10. I asked how much they would charge me to re-barrel the rifle if I paid for the work. He said he would have to check with management to see if this was even a possibility. After not hearing from anyone in a few weeks, I called, left messages, and finally heard back from one of their senior engineers who told me that his supervisor told him that they cannot replace just the barrel assembly on a rifle. I confirmed that they did not sell M&P 10 barrels. I said, somewhat incredulously, "so you won't warranty it, you won't fix it, and you won't sell me the parts to fix it myself? I basically have an $1100 paperweight?" He seemed somewhat embarrassed to have to give me this news. He said that he had no control over what management's policies were, and that if it were up to him, he would replace the barrel for a small fee. He said he was going to return the rifle to me.
So that's my situation. I have a broken rifle with well over $1000 tied up in it, with no way to either have it fixed, or to fix it myself. I suppose I put myself in that situation, by buying a proprietary design from a company that doesn't stand behind their products. Well, good job Smith & Wesson. You fooled me once. One thing is for sure though... I am not going to make that mistake again. Oh, and I'm going to be carrying a Glock from now on.
I have a Performance Center pistol that I put in an ultrasonic cleaner and destroyed the anodizing on the frame. I told them how I did it. They fixed it for free and paid for both direction Fedex - which is way more than I expected. I am almost embarrassed that they did so much to help when it was my fault. I bet if I had an M&P 10 and ruined the barrel they would fix it for me and charge me. Maybe my luck with them has to do with how I said it was my fault up front?
I am glad that the OP posted a second version of this to make others aware of the potentially unobtainable proprietary replacement barrels.
I would like to take this opportunity to be insensitive and point out, had you spent 3 times as much on the HK this would not have happened :P
Krampus
Two points-
1) A custom barrel would be easy to have made, cost dependent on options wanted and who makes it
2) S&W has clearly stated that while barrels are not available yet they plan to make them available soon
A couple of quick questions about the ring you noted seeing in the bore:
Can you confirm its location now that the barrel's split, and provide pics to get a better look at what you'd described and where it is? The ones you posted elsewhere give an overall impression of the aftermath, but the devil's in the details.
3141731418
Given you referenced the ring appeared to be machined, said machining should now be more visible given the tube's split in half and you'll have better access to see it with proper lighting. Like the rifling, it's not likely going to disappear in a blast unless the area in question completely disintegrated.
Also, you indicated you'd received a letter stating that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials. Did you reference this when you'd spoken with the senior engineer about it and question what they thought happened to it if it wasn't the result of lacking workmanship / materials? It seems like they would have been able to offer some sort of feedback regarding what they suspected actually happened to it... and given they had it for 2+ months, I'd wager it went through their onsite metallurgical lab - particularly if there were questions of product liability and warranty coverage - so there should be a report of their findings someplace...
Upon looking again, I see the ring is actually closer to the muzzle than I previously remembered. It is very close to where the threading starts... Maybe where the barrel widens to form a shoulder for the crush washer. It also appears to be either somewhat shallower than I thought, or worn down somewhat.
No, I didn't ask them about why they thought the damage wasn't due to a defect, or what they thought caused it.
So I'm a little confused... is this machined ring halfway between the gas block and the muzzle...
I did notice something strange about the bore though... there was, for lack of a better term, a "ring" around the bore halfway between the gas block and the muzzle. It looked like the same size and depth as a land of rifling, and appeared to me to be machined that way.
... toward the gas block end of the split...
31540
... or closer to the muzzle...
I see the ring is actually closer to the muzzle than I previously remembered. It is very close to where the threading starts... Maybe where the barrel widens to form a shoulder for the crush washer. It also appears to be either somewhat shallower than I thought, or worn down somewhat.
... or did your barrel have three different machined rings? Just trying to get the facts straight...
Smith & Wesson just posted this in their forum on TOS
Hi,
We have released a new policy regarding repair work for any M&P Rifle that was not covered under the companies Warranty, or Lifetime Service Policy. Please see below:
Firearm Repair Services Policy
For firearms which are not covered by Smith & Wesson’s Limited Warranty or Lifetime Service Policy, the company will repair (Subject to parts availability) any Smith & Wesson handgun purchased on or after February 1, 1989, and any M&P series rifle subject to the customer’s payment of all repair and service fees and other conditions set forth herein.
All repairs and service work not covered by the limited Warranty or Lifetime Service Policy will be assessed a service charge and parts cost prior to any work being undertaken by Smith & Wesson. Those charges will be reflected on an invoice sent to the customer. The payment in full of the invoice must be received by Smith & Wesson before any service work will be performed.
Firearms for which the customer has declined to accept the quotation in the invoice will be returned to the customer in the condition in which the firearm was received.
Smith & Wesson reserves the right to refuse to repair any firearm, and the service policy does not extend to or include any repairs to firearms that have been altered or modified with after-market parts or accessories.
Nothing contained in this policy alters or changes any of the terms of the Limited Warranty or Lifetime Service Policy offered by Smith & Wesson.
If you have previously had a M&P Rifle that you were told could not be repaired because it was not covered, please contact our customer service department at : 1-800-331-0852 (USA)
Smith & Wesson just posted this in their forum on TOS
and the service policy does not extend to or include any repairs to firearms that have been altered or modified with after-market parts or accessories.
Well that's useless. New pistol grip? Nope sorry, no repair for you!
.46caliber
02-09-15, 19:42
Well that's useless. New pistol grip? Nope sorry, no repair for you!
At their discretion, not a flat "no". Similar policy to warranty repair with every manufacturer.
If someone jacks up a rifle with crap aftermarket parts and asks S&W to fix it...you know how that could end.
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I can see this now ending when the op calls s&w and they say they will replace the barrel and just the barrel for a small fee of $1100. :rolleyes: that would be my luck going from a full rifle replacement for $1100 to just the barrel for the same price.
It sounds like the op did make some progress by s&w updating their polices. Hopefully it turns out well.
MorphCross
02-09-15, 23:38
Well that's useless. New pistol grip? Nope sorry, no repair for you!
You are being melodramatic, it is more like "you drilled into the barrel and slide of your m&p pistol and badly screwed up the gun, no repair for you!" It's a given that people can swap the pistol grip on their rifles. Hell, they include an accessory booklet with the M&P 10 that shows different furniture available, different triggers available, and etc. Regardless of how many believe that .308 derivatives of the AR-15 should be just like Legos, they are not. In fact i'd challenge you to find a rifle manufacture of AR-15 complete rifles that would ever accept an AR-15 that has had the barrel chopped, re-profiled, and covered in Cerakote back for warranty work.
Well that's useless. New pistol grip? Nope sorry, no repair for you!
I'm pretty sure that's already part of their warranty policy and would mean significant modifications to the the actual hardware, not just swapping common parts. About the same as other manufacturers. Just use common sense.
Actually it falls under the common sense clause. It's common sense that swapping a handguard, stock or pistol grip would have no bearing on the weapon. The exception would be of course if you stripped put the pistol grip hole because you didn't know what you were doing.
Well that's useless. New pistol grip? Nope sorry, no repair for you!
I once had a 1911 coated and noticed that the dust cover was machined way off center. I sent it for warranty replacement of the frame, but the maker would not warrant their defect because the gun had been painted. Come on - the frame was still machined out of spec by them.
No point quibbling over S&W's supposed new policy...
I called S&W yesterday to attempt to send my rifle back in for repair under this new policy, and spoke with a Customer Service rep named Joe. I told him about the policy stated in the above-quoted post from AR15.com, which he was not aware of. He spoke to someone briefly, and came back saying that this is something S&W is going to be doing at some indefinite time in the future, but that they are not currently set up to do this type of repair and that it is not an option. He reiterated that it is their policy not to perform in-house repairs at customer expense, and that they do not sell parts. He said that the e-mail folks may have jumped the gun in stating a policy that has not been implemented yet, and that if I sent my rifle back to them it would just sit there indefinitely until they implement this policy.
So it appears I'm back to square one on this.
This may not be handled quickly enough to resolve the issue to henschman's satisfaction. The rifle is a fairly new product and it takes time to get support up and running once a new rifle is on the market. At least the person he contacted by telephone was truthful about his rifle sitting indefinitely if he shipped it to S&W.
This is why I won't buy a first year release of a new motorcycle or car. It takes a while for replacement parts, support and service bulletins to catch up with the product and you can run into the same kind of issues if you expect them to be quickly resolved.
It could be that S&W is awaiting information from the field that can be analyzed so they can make changes before ordering a large number of parts for a production run and replacements for warranty repair, but that is speculation on my part.
You are being melodramatic, it is more like "you drilled into the barrel and slide of your m&p pistol and badly screwed up the gun, no repair for you!" It's a given that people can swap the pistol grip on their rifles. Hell, they include an accessory booklet with the M&P 10 that shows different furniture available, different triggers available, and etc. Regardless of how many believe that .308 derivatives of the AR-15 should be just like Legos, they are not. In fact i'd challenge you to find a rifle manufacture of AR-15 complete rifles that would ever accept an AR-15 that has had the barrel chopped, re-profiled, and covered in Cerakote back for warranty work.
I have to agree. There ARE/IS a point of no return when doing modifications on any factory weapon and expecting a free repair on something "you" created in the first place, it wasn't something they originally did at the factory to cause the problem.
Not being able to buy a replacement barrel is lame... However, I'll keep using S&W products. I've had nothing but great service.
I have to agree. There ARE/IS a point of no return when doing modifications on any factory weapon and expecting a free repair on something "you" created in the first place, it wasn't something they originally did at the factory to cause the problem.
Who said anything about a free repair (other than the other members who didn't read/comprehend the OP)?
Who said anything about a free repair (other than the other members who didn't read/comprehend the OP)?
You did. Remember, you're original, deleted OP stated that it was sent in for warranty work. It wasn't until S&W denied it, was when you asked if they'd fix it if you covered the bill.
That's the bummer about changing your story. You really have to try hard keep track of everything. There's a few of us here that are keeping track though. ;)
You are reading something into this story that isn't there.
There is nothing in my original post that says I "sent it off for warranty work."
For the dozenth or so time: I just sent the rifle off, period... for S&W to do whatever they would do with it. I did this because their CS rep told me that is how the repair process is started.
"But you shouldn't be surprised that they denied warranty, since the gun was used/modified/damaged due to a bore obstruction." OK, got it... this point has been argued over and over again, despite not being contested by me or anyone else. Now what about S&W's much more concerning policies of not providing any service or parts, even for a fee, for their proprietary designed rifle, leaving their customers completely screwed if their rifle's damage falls outside their very limited warranty?
It's right there in black and white. They're all your own words. Thankfully SixEight copied your original OP to this thread for all to see. Your story changed dramatically. You know it, we know it, and several of us are on to you. You'd have been better off leaving the thread deleted but your malicious intent runs thick in your veins. You blew up your barrel, you tried to get one past S&W, they were on to you & they gave you the middle finger. You took your ball and stomped home.
Give it up. If your original OP was not the correct sequence of events, why write it? You were angry & had one thing in mind and that was to bad mouth S&W. (You admitted that too, remember?) Several of us saw it immediately, called you on it and then you changed your story. That only makes you look worse.
So tell us all, why did your story change?
You are reading something into this story that isn't there.
There is nothing in my original post that says I "sent it off for warranty work."
For the dozenth or so time: I just sent the rifle off, period... for S&W to do whatever they would do with it. I did this because their CS rep told me that is how the repair process is started.
"But you shouldn't be surprised that they denied warranty, since the gun was used/modified/damaged due to a bore obstruction." OK, got it... this point has been argued over and over again, despite not being contested by me or anyone else. Now what about S&W's much more concerning policies of not providing any service or parts, even for a fee, for their proprietary designed rifle, leaving their customers completely screwed if their rifle's damage falls outside their very limited warranty?
Actually, what's been questioned has been sourced from the ebbs and flows of your own telling of the story since the beginning. For example, what happened in terms of the mystery ring you initially pointed out? At first you stated it was at the mid-bore between the muzzle and the gas block and stated the burst was at that location...
"Upon reflection, I thought about the strange ring in the rifle's bore, and realized that the barrel had split right at that point."
31672
Then you later said the ring was toward the gas block, and now since have identified it as being very close to where the threads start at the muzzle. That's a fair bit of placement difference, wouldn't you agree counselor?
The point is that while many here wanted to better assess what happened and why - to consider if a true quality / user safety issue existed as you'd initially inferred - the account changes and lack of further related detail along the way have made it a little hard to validate an important concern which you yourself raised...
I get henschman's point and it's worth discussing.
Disregard everything in this thread and the previous one. Now, with a clean slate, should S&W SELL spare parts for their propriety rifle? Alternatively, should they provide repair work for cost on out of warranty rifles?
Or should a rifle out of warranty with a single broken part that is proprietary require a new rifle?
Regardless of what actually happened, I do think S&W should have a way to get his rifle up and running at his expense without requiring a whole new rifle.
Seriously, who here who has bought a factory compete rifle and hasn't modified it enough to place it out of warranty?
The story has changed multiple times. The supposed ring has moved locations several times. We have yet to see pictures of the mysterious ring even though it is supposedly visible to the naked eye. OP seems to pull details out of his rear end depending on the question.
S&W has announced they are going to be one of the few if any .308 AR manufacturers to accommodate repairs of un-warrantied repairs and it still isn't good enough or fast enough. Maybe because they are seeing all of these keyboard commandos piling on when people don't understand the issues or how manufacturing works.
Again, I challenge anyone to find out if manufacturers of relatively new .308 AR rifles, or any newer gun for that matter, will accommodate customers in this manner. Check with Sig, Ruger, HK, LWRC, etc. and tell me they will do this or even sell you a barrel. When I have evidence they ALL will accommodate you in such a manner, I will quit posting.
Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 13:18
The story has changed multiple times. The supposed ring has moved locations several times. We have yet to see pictures of the mysterious ring even though it is supposedly visible to the naked eye. OP seems to pull details out of his rear end depending on the question.
S&W has announced they are going to be one of the few if any .308 AR manufacturers to accommodate repairs of un-warrantied repairs and it still isn't good enough or fast enough. Maybe because they are seeing all of these keyboard commandos piling on when people don't understand the issues or how manufacturing works.
Again, I challenge anyone to find out if manufacturers of relatively new .308 AR rifles, or any newer gun for that matter, will accommodate customers in this manner. Check with Sig, Ruger, HK, LWRC, etc. and tell me they will do this or even sell you a barrel. When I have evidence they ALL will accommodate you in such a manner, I will quit posting.
KAC will sell you a replacement, LMT will too.
KAC will sell you a replacement, LMT will too.
He didn't say anything about KAC or LMT. :p
KAC will sell you a replacement, LMT will too.
They've both been around a long time.
If you're referring to the LMT 308 MWS/MRP it's been on the market since around 2009 IIRC and of course they're going to sell barrels. That's the whole point of designing it modular.
Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 16:02
He didn't say anything about KAC or LMT. :p
Sig, Ruger, HK, LWRC, etc
If you want to split hairs LWRC will re-barrel your rifle for a fee too.
If you want to split hairs LWRC will re-barrel your rifle for a fee too.
A .308 REPR?
Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 16:14
A .308 REPR?
Yep, Had the one I sold in 2012 done.
That is the difference between buying from a top tier .308 manufacture and others.
You will not get that customer satisfaction from S&W or DPMS (They might have changed their policy, but when I inquired about the GII I was told they would not rebarrel one.)
Yep, Had the one I sold in 2012 done.
That is the difference between buying from a top tier .308 manufacture and others.
You will not get that customer satisfaction from S&W or DPMS (They might have changed their policy, but when I inquired about the GII I was told they would not rebarrel one.)
I'll take that with a grain of salt.
You're missing the point.
My point if you read my post again wasn't that any manufacturers WILL do it. My point was that a number of manufacturers WON'T.
Add DPMS (G2) to my list.
Also add Colt.
Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 16:34
I'll take that with a grain of salt.
You're missing the point.
My point if you read my post again wasn't that any manufacturers WILL do it. My point was that a number of manufacturers WON'T.
Add DPMS (G2) to my list.
Also add Colt.
Your point is nonsense then.
With your logic it is ok for S&W to not do it since all the other bottom barrel .308 manufactures don't? Seems like one should avoid those manufactures since they provide poor customer service. Kind of the very point some on here are making.
not to mention Colt will re-barrel a rifle... It is right in their user manuals
◾Start by contacting Customer Service to describe your need. If Customer Service asks you to send the gun to the factory for analysis, please follow our Shipping Instructions carefully.
◾After your gun arrives at the factory, a technician will evaluate the gun to determine whether the problem is covered under the Colt Limited Lifetime Service Agreement.
◾If the problem with your gun is covered under the Limited Lifetime Service Agreement, a factory gunsmith will be assigned to repair your gun.
◾If the problem with your gun is not covered under the Limited Lifetime Service Agreement, the factory technician will prepare a repair estimate that outlines the work to be performed and provides an estimated price by mail. After you have received the estimate, you will be asked to pay in advance if you wish to have us proceed with the repair. If you do not, the gun will be returned to you.
◾After repairs are made, all guns are range-tested to insure proper operation.
◾Following range-testing, repaired guns are cleaned and inspected again. Only after that process will your gun be packed and returned to you.
If you want to split hairs LWRC will re-barrel your rifle for a fee too.
Honestly, I couldn't care less who does what. What I do care about is someone grenading a barrel by their own actions, then trying to get it replaced under warranty and after said person is shown the middle finger for being deceitful and is rejected service, said person isn't truthful with millions of people when trying to bash a manufacturer because they feel they got screwed.
Now if the barrel was damaged because of any fault from S&W yet they still refused service, that'd be a different story, but that's not what happened here. My guess is that if the OP was 100% forthright with S&W regarding the cause of the damage right from the get-go, they'd have been more willing to work with him.
Either way, they still reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.
At the end of the day, the OP wasn't truthful with S&W, with the members at M4C, and with all other individuals browsing the site.
Your point is nonsense then.
With your logic it is ok for S&W to not do it since all the other bottom barrel .308 manufactures don't?
Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
BTW, saying LWRC is top tier while putting down other brands won't win you many friends here, sport. Don't say I didn't warn you ;)
Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 18:47
Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
BTW, saying LWRC is top tier while putting down other brands won't win you many friends here, sport. Don't say I didn't warn you ;)
Oh come on, you get what you pay for
You have your manufactures that are clearly ahead.
KAC
LARUE
WILSON COMBAT
LMT
GAP
JP
Then you have your Middle of the road
LWRC
SIG
HK
Then you have you bottom rung
COLT
DPMS
S&W
Armalite
Remington
You can't expect to pay S&W money and have it perform like a KAC. That is just the way it is.
I'm sure a few clowns will come around saying "my S&W will out shoot an LMT", from a bench in a controlled environment its possible. Take that S&W out in the field in the muck with an aggressive shooting schedule for a month and then tell me how well it did.
Oh come on, you get what you pay for
You have your manufactures that are clearly ahead.
KAC
LARUE
WILSON COMBAT
LMT
GAP
JP
Then you have your Middle of the road
LWRC
SIG
HK
Then you have you bottom rung
COLT
DPMS
S&W
Armalite
Remington
I... Don't know how to respond to this list.
Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 18:52
I... Don't know how to respond to this list.
Objectively?
You cant pay Prius money expecting Telsa performance/innovation
.46caliber
02-13-15, 19:08
Objectively?
You cant pay Prius money expecting Telsa performance/innovation
Any manufacturer tier list is subjective by nature, not to mention a bit silly. That is unless you have some actual data like failure rates, warranty repair figures or cycles to failure on the mentioned manufacturers.
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Digital_Damage
02-13-15, 19:16
Any manufacturer tier list is subjective by nature, not to mention a bit silly. That is unless you have some actual data like failure rates, warranty repair figures or cycles to failure on the mentioned manufacturers.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Reviews from credible media sources, end user feedback should be sufficient for most.
But I have seen the statistics from some of these manufactures, covered by NDA.
To be the devils advocate to show a point
You would have no problem swapping an MP10 for an ECC?
.46caliber
02-13-15, 20:25
Reviews from credible media sources, end user feedback should be sufficient for most.
But I have seen the statistics from some of these manufactures, covered by NDA.
To be the devils advocate to show a point
You would have no problem swapping an MP10 for an ECC?
Reviews are hardly objective. And even if they were, a handful or reviews from credible sources is not anywhere near statistically significant enough to be used to definitively rank manufacturers.
No experience or research or anything more than passing awereness regarding an MP10 or an ECC so in short, no clue.
My point is, an attempt to objectively respond to and evaluate a subjective ranking is an exercise in futility when there is 0 corresponding hard data to discuss.
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Can you not buy a replacement aftermarket barrel for the S&W and be done with all of this?
Can you not buy a replacement aftermarket barrel for the S&W and be done with all of this?
There are none.
steyrman13
02-14-15, 03:44
Could he not have a gunsmith take the barrel extension off of his barrel, and have a new blank turned and mated to his extension and then drill gas port?
Where is Oprah when you need her?
Could he not have a gunsmith take the barrel extension off of his barrel, and have a new blank turned and mated to his extension and then drill gas port?
It's not like it would void the warranty, since S&W already told him it's been voided (essentially).
.46caliber
02-14-15, 11:14
It's not like it would void the warranty, since S&W already told him it's been voided (essentially).
Warranty is void, OP is second owner.
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Singlestack Wonder
02-14-15, 11:55
Lesson to be learned from this thread:
Don't allow any obstructions in the barrel while firing rifle.
hotrodder636
02-14-15, 12:43
I am a big fan of using the "I can't tell you because it's confidential, top secret, eyes only, covered by NDA" in a discussion. It really brings a lot to the table and makes a clear point.
Either way, as said before, a list can still be subjective based on who did the study, how the data was collated, etc. with that said there are companies who have been in the .308 games for a good while and those who have just started to dip their toes in the collective pool. A user should do their research, make their decision and go from there.
Reviews from credible media sources, end user feedback should be sufficient for most.
But I have seen the statistics from some of these manufactures, covered by NDA.
To be the devils advocate to show a point
You would have no problem swapping an MP10 for an ECC?
Relevant info, Criterion said (http://forum.308ar.com/topic/10384-welcome-criterion-barrels-to-the-308ar-family/?p=137440) that they're looking at making S&W M&P 10 barrels.
UPDATE: finally some good news.
To re-cap a little, in February, I was notified that S&W changed it's policy. While they still will not be selling spare parts for rifles, they will now be servicing damaged rifles that are not covered by warranty for a fee. They e-mailed me another return shipping label, and I sent my M&P 10 back to them one month ago to get a quote.
I got a letter in the mail from them today. They are quoting me $218 for a new barrel, $45 for labor, and $13 freight for a total of $276 to fix my rifle. I consider it a very reasonable price -- a hell of a lot better than buying a new $1100 rifle, like they originally wanted me to do. I called, gave them my credit card info, and told them to proceed. I requested that they return my damaged barrel, so I can get my low pro gas block and Troy FF barrel nut off of it, which are stuck on due to the barrel being bulged and split after the gas block.
I'm looking forward to getting this back. It sucks having good money tied up in a broken rifle for so long. At least some good came out of this whole shit show. If nothing else, it got S&W to change a very bad policy, and gave an option to people who were in my boat -- a broken rifle that is out of warranty with no ability to acquire spare parts or even to pay to have it fixed.
Now -- who wants an M&P 10 with a BRAND NEW BARREL?!?!?!?!?
Sell it. That is exactly what I would do. I read all the posts in this thread. I've never had any desire to own anything S&W except their wheel guns. I think it is a good lesson for anyone wondering why some rifles might cost more. Customer service is very important.
I must be bored with life. I read this thread tonight for the first time. My guess is Smith originally refused to replace the barrel because their policy was either replace weapon or do nothing. Doing nothing happened because the service dept did not know how to replace the barrel--maybe because the rifle had been manufactured in one location and the service dept was in another location. And available techs had not yet been trained to accomplish the task. Maybe there were none available. Eventually Smith came through but note that their first response was pay $1100 or have a nice paper weight. Was liability their concern? Not if they changed policy? To me it appears that assumptions were made about the op's intent and that these assumptions were not relevant to the issue, which S&W did resolve much later.
Any manufacturer is going to be reluctant to warranty a firearm that had work done to it that requires machine work, files or other metal cutting tools and I cannot blame them one bit. We cannot expect generous parts support for any new release firearm. I would not buy a first run of any firearm built by any manufacturer to avoid the type of issue the OP had with Smith & Wesson.
For the record, I am not a fan of Smith & Wesson rifles and semi-automatic pistols.
The fact that I had drilled the gas port didn't enter into their decision not to warranty it. Neither did the fact that the rifle was bought used, or that I had put a different handguard on it. That decision was based solely on their determination that the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials.
Also, the reason that they don't supply parts support isn't because this is a "new release" firearm... if you can call something that debuted in 2012 "new release"... it is a policy of theirs not to sell parts for any rifle. They won't sell you parts for something that has been out longer, like the M&P 15/22, either.
The fact that I had drilled the gas port didn't enter into their decision not to warranty it. Neither did the fact that the rifle was bought used, or that I had put a different handguard on it. That decision was based solely on their determination that the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials.
Also, the reason that they don't supply parts support isn't because this is a "new release" firearm... if you can call something that debuted in 2012 "new release"... it is a policy of theirs not to sell parts for any rifle. They won't sell you parts for something that has been out longer, like the M&P 15/22, either.
I thought your rifle was purchased in 2014 and two years from release is not that long for a new product. If a particular manufacturer does not provide parts and customer support for their product I buy elsewhere. If parts are proprietary and there are no other sources for parts support, I purchase products elsewhere.
Re-barrel the rifle and sell it.
Slvr Surfr
06-11-15, 20:55
I have personally had S&W repair two semi-auto handguns that I was not the first owner of. I don't think S&W even cares if you are the first owner at all, since they don't even ask. I found their CS to be top notch. OP, I'm glad they were able to get you sorted out for a reasonable fee.
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