View Full Version : 2015 FNH DMR 15 thoughts?
This new one from FN has struck my interest. While not having experience or owning an AR from FN I do have a SCAR 17 that I am very pleased with. I am wondering if any of you with more FN experience have any thoughts on this rifle and it's features, and just as important the price tag that comes along with it of a msrp of $1900. Basically looking into it for a hunting set up with longer barrel and the 1:7 twist for heavier grain hunting ammunition. Worth looking into or pass and take a different route? Thanks in advance.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=pC7ezA5PaaI
http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/carbines/fn-15-series/fn15-dmr/
For the price and a "DMR", I'd have expected a SS barrel, and...well...more.
I don't think I have that much into my MK12ish (Centurion Mk12 barrel, Vltor upper) that I assembled.
Street price looks like 1,500-1550. Not a bad deal considering it comes with almost $800 worth of quality aftermarket parts installed and an 18" CHF barrel. Especially if you don't have the tools or ability to assemble a rifle yourself.
sidewaysil80
01-25-15, 07:16
I really don't see anything special about this and think its a tad overpriced. BCM and Rainier off the top of my head can be had with actual SS barrels for similar if not less money. I think if FN wants a crack at the 18/SPR market they need to adjust price and offer a similar barrel as other competitors within that price point.
Seems like an average offering in a segment that's getting crowded. On the plus side, it has a real FN roll mark rather than the big white laser mark they've been using.
Im not going to say their price is crazy out of line.
I built a couple 20" guns with PSA 20" CHF chrome barrels, which appear to me to be basically the same as this barrel, just 20" vs. 18". I have around $550 total into each gun with a standard A2 stock. If I added the MI rail($200), lo-pro gas block($40), Magpul STR stock($70), the surefire comp($60), Magpul MBUS Pro($200) and either the exact Timney or a Giessele($200), I would have an identical gun for just under $1400. Add the 11.5% FET on a complete gun and you are around $1550.
Now none of that is counting the fact that FN pays probably 30-40% less for parts than my above retail prices, so my guess is its costing them around $1000-1100 to build this gun, then the 1900 price point starts to widen a bit. I think at 1500 this would be a great gun, at 1900, ill build one myself.
Im not going to say their price is crazy out of line.
I built a couple 20" guns with PSA 20" CHF chrome barrels, which appear to me to be basically the same as this barrel, just 20" vs. 18". I have around $550 total into each gun with a standard A2 stock. If I added the MI rail($200), lo-pro gas block($40), Magpul STR stock($70), the surefire comp($60), Magpul MBUS Pro($200) and either the exact Timney or a Giessele($200), I would have an identical gun for just under $1400. Add the 11.5% FET on a complete gun and you are around $1550.
Now none of that is counting the fact that FN pays probably 30-40% less for parts than my above retail prices, so my guess is its costing them around $1000-1100 to build this gun, then the 1900 price point starts to widen a bit. I think at 1500 this would be a great gun, at 1900, ill build one myself.
I agree with a lot of that evaluation... that said it's a more crowded market segment when one starts looking at 16" SS units cobbled together in halves (BCM or Sionics complete lower, BCM KMR Recce Upper) can be put together and accessorized with a G2S/G2S-E and Magpul PRO sights for under that $1500 price point and basically be a superior weapon system (lighter, more precise, with slightly nicer parts), so it might require a slightly lower street price to really gain much market share. That said, FNH-USA probably has the capacity to make that happen.
I agree with a lot of that evaluation... that said it's a more crowded market segment when one starts looking at 16" SS units cobbled together in halves (BCM or Sionics complete lower, BCM KMR Recce Upper) can be put together and accessorized with a G2S/G2S-E and Magpul PRO sights for under that $1500 price point and basically be a superior weapon system (lighter, more precise, with slightly nicer parts), so it might require a slightly lower street price to really gain much market share. That said, FNH-USA probably has the capacity to make that happen.
I agree. I mean, hell, I have about $2000 into my 18" SPR with Giessele SSA-E, Giessele Mk4 rail, Vltor MUR, 18" CLE Krieger barrel, JP light weight BC and silent spring, and Syrac adjustable gas block and I would bet money that it will out shoot this FN gun all day long.
$1500 for this gun and they have a winner, $1900, to much other competition that is better.
I saw that a lot at SHOT this year. Several cool products, but they will never sell at the price point. Saw an AR designed and built around 22TCM, but the price was astronomical and will never sell.
teutonicpolymer
01-25-15, 13:51
I thought the DDv11 pro looked better. I would still rather build than buy either though.
The problem with selling/marketing a customized AR, is that you have to hope your customer wants the whole package that you are marketing.
I look at this and think: I would do a different rail, I like the stock, maybe a different grip, and I don't know enough about the brake to make a decision.
Good on them for thinking out side the plain jane carbine/rifle, but that same thinking can paint you into a corner with costs and lack of choice.
People will buy this because it has FN stamped on it. They will say FN makes lots of military weapons so this will be the bees knees. Never-mind the blatant discrepancies in their other rifles when compared to the actual contract rifles.
Those guns are all built to a price point. Just look at them.
These FN lowers look like $69 fly-by-night internet specials by the way they are engraved.
Those guns are all built to a price point. Just look at them.
These FN lowers look like $69 fly-by-night internet specials by the way they are engraved.
Well, that's how their DoD issue ones look too. Why ruin the 'authenticity?'
Well, that's how their DoD issue ones look too. Why ruin the 'authenticity?'
FN USGI lowers aren't engraved with a CNC engraving. They also don't say Caliber Multi on them.
So far with these replies, if not $1500 or under I'd be better off building my own it seems.
Any other recommendations on a complete rifle with similar features? In $1500-$2000 ballpark?
So far with these replies, if not $1500 or under I'd be better off building my own it seems.
Any other recommendations on a complete rifle with similar features? In $1500-$2000 ballpark?
Did you even look to see what it can be had for? None of the guys that said it isn't a $1,900 rifle did. Are you capable and equipped to build it yourself?
Did you even look to see what it can be had for? None of the guys that said it isn't a $1,900 rifle did. Are you capable and equipped to build it yourself?
I've seen $1699, maybe I'm not looking in the right places, and yes I am capable of building one myself. Never have built one but I'm a 15 year master tech in auto industry, I'm sure I could, I am aware of specifications, proper tools, and procedures.
These rifles are another example of someone's liberties to kinda-sorta duplicate the .mil package -- and not very accurately.
Sure it'll go bang, but it doesn't come close to the limited runs of .mil weapons.
So yeah, it'll go bang -- but that's like saying a Prius is like a Maserati.
Older FN M16s had nowhere near the rollmarks of the M16A4, M4, or commercial FN15.
http://www.fototime.com/2A89F2F8F5FE539/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/637CC1EB193302F/standard.jpg
With current prices, I would just mate a pre-assembled BCM upper of your choice with a lower you assemble yourself with the stock you want. It will cost about the same or less street price, be better, and not require any special tools or skills to assemble.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-SPR-KMR-KEYMOD-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-kmr13.htm
With current prices, I would just mate a pre-assembled BCM upper of your choice with a lower you assemble yourself with the stock you want. It will cost about the same or less street price, be better, and not require any special tools or skills to assemble.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-SPR-KMR-KEYMOD-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-kmr13.htm
... and that fundamentally is the argument it seems we've all seemed to agreed on. Anybody with enough opposable thumbs and knowledge required to clean the weapon system can assemble a complete upper and a complete lower... and the BCM KMR-SS410 Uppers mated to any good lower receiver does exactly that for less money.
As far as the .mil issued lowers, the majority if the ones our unit had would absolutely fall into the cosmetic blemish bin even from no-name civilian sales companies. Thinks like forging marks that never cleaned up (entire seams along the front edge), tool marks in odd places, places inside the lowers that make no contact with FCG/BCG parts but have no anodizing, and the tell-tale forging edge seam on the top of the trigger well that never saw an end mill. That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, so a kinda-lame half-assed attempt at machining a cheap forging (that was at least function) to me would be more of an idiosyncracy of an FN rifle if done intentionally, or at least if savings were passed on to the end buyer... but paying premium prices for those especially when the rest of the rifle appears to be built off of the parts-bin leftovers that other firms decided not to buy in volume for complete rifles really doesn't make sense in a market where other companies are so definitively doing it right.
... and that fundamentally is the argument it seems we've all seemed to agreed on. Anybody with enough opposable thumbs and knowledge required to clean the weapon system can assemble a complete upper and a complete lower... and the BCM KMR-SS410 Uppers mated to any good lower receiver does exactly that for less money
I think this is the route I'll be going, better for less is just a no brainer. Thanks for the feedback, this is exactly why I asked my question.
dookie1481
01-31-15, 19:48
I shot this rifle last week. The muzzle absolutely did not move.
I shot this rifle last week. The muzzle absolutely did not move.
Short, succnint...would have preferred a little more detail. Type of ammo particularly. My Centurion MK12 barrel with the same SF brake does move shooting moderate homebrew M193. Have not tried any MK242 yet.
How was the accuracy? Worth the price tag for a CHF barrel?
3ACR_Scout
02-01-15, 10:32
O
Older FN M16s had nowhere near the rollmarks of the M16A4, M4, or commercial FN15.
Sorry to veer off topic, but what's the little metal tab forward of the selector? I've never seen that on a military rifle. Granted, I haven't spent much time with an A2, but I'm sure I've inventoried a few thousand of them over the years. Thanks!
Dave
556BlackRifle
02-01-15, 15:24
I like that muzzle device. MSRP $59. No suppressor connectivity though....
http://www.surefire.com/tactical-equipment/suppressor-adapters/procomp-muzzle-brakes.html
dookie1481
02-01-15, 16:05
Short, succnint...would have preferred a little more detail. Type of ammo particularly. My Centurion MK12 barrel with the same SF brake does move shooting moderate homebrew M193. Have not tried any MK242 yet.
How was the accuracy? Worth the price tag for a CHF barrel?
How the hell should I know? I put about 50 rounds through it at 50 yds.
I simply posted because I figured not many people had actual trigger time on it so some first hand info was better than none.
O
Sorry to veer off topic, but what's the little metal tab forward of the selector? I've never seen that on a military rifle. Granted, I haven't spent much time with an A2, but I'm sure I've inventoried a few thousand of them over the years. Thanks!
Dave
IIRC It keeps the selector from being rotated to the "AUTO" position.
.
One advantage of this rifle over Mk12 or other heavy barreled 18" options is weight. I built up a very similar rifle. I have the Rainier Arms mountain series 18 barrel. This is a FN barrel in a gov profile and rifle length gas system. Looking at the video the OP posted, It looks like they are using a gov profile or really close in the DMR 15. My build that I am comparing the DMR 15 to has a BCM 13" KMR hand guard, BCM bcg, BCM A2 stock built on a Noveske lower. This rifle weights in at just 8.2 LBS with MBUS Pros and a Leopold 1.25-4 VXR Patrol. This builds weights less then my DDV3 with and Eotech.
I find this build to have a very nice recoil pulse and it is accurate. I am now getting around ~1 MOA. I built this for a light 3 Gun rifle with a rifle length gas systems. I fine it very easy and enjoyable to shoot. My wife and sons enjoy this rifle over my others.
Maybe I'm off base here, but it seems kind of odd to have a gov profile chrome lined barrel as a "DMR" rifle.
I don't have anything against chrome (all my barrels are chrome lined), but for a precision-y/DMR type rifle stainless seems like a better choice.
I can't stand the government profile, though.
Rifleman_04
02-02-15, 19:39
Maybe I'm off base here, but it seems kind of odd to have a gov profile chrome lined barrel as a "DMR" rifle.
I don't have anything against chrome (all my barrels are chrome lined), but for a precision-y/DMR type rifle stainless seems like a better choice.
I can't stand the government profile, though.
Not really. People seem to be confused and using DMR and SPR interchangeably. While they may look similar they are not the same and used differently.
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