3-12x vs. 4-18x Scope .. for 16" AR shooting standard range 100-250 yards .223 55g

[falconman515]

So I'm looking to get a higher power scope then my current 1-6x for target shooting ... I prefer to see more paper and target in turn wanting more magnification.

I think I'm going to get a Bushnell scope (calibrated for standard 55g .223) and there are two options ...

3-12x40
Or
4.5-18x40

And fyi the 18x costs no more then the 12x I can get it for the same price!!!

Is there going to be a huge advantage with the 18 over the 12 or will it just get a bit blurry anyway past the 10-12 range?

I want to be able to see the target clearly and bullet hits at 100yds and still see the target well at 200-50 as well.

I am not familiar with optics much at all do any feedback you can provide would be great.

[zombiescometh]

Vortex crossfire 2 4-12x44 options start at $160 6-18x44 options start at $210 and you get a lifetime warranty no matter what happened.

[falconman515]

Vortex crossfire 2 6-18x44 and you get a lifetime warranty no matter what happened.

Wanting to know about magnification ... Difference for my shooting using an 18x over a 12x

Plus Bushnell has a lifetime warranty as well.

Plus the Bushnell has aside parallax adjustment along with it being about $50 cheaper then the vortex.

I can't find a reason to go with the Vortex 18x over the Bushnell 18x considering what it lacks and is about 50 bucks more.

But ultimately I'm trying to decide whether I want the 18x since it's the same price as the 12x

[zombiescometh]

Bushnell scope breaks after the 1 year warranty your out of luck unless its a factory problem. Vortex if your your scope breaks for any reason at any time they replace it no matter what.
If you ever want to shoot longer ranges the 18x will come in handy.

After reading a little bit more it seems that the Bushnell is lacking in every single way. Vortex actually gives you all the info about their optic aircraft grade aluminum, one piece tube etc and tells you what they did to make it water/fog/shock proof etc. Bushnell just says that its rugged.

[falconman515]

Bushnell scope breaks after the 1 year warranty your out of luck unless its a factory problem. Vortex if your your scope breaks for any reason at any time they replace it no matter what.
If you ever want to shoot longer ranges the 18x will come in handy.

After reading a little bit more it seems that the Bushnell is lacking in every single way. Vortex actually gives you all the info about their optic and tells you what they did to make it water/fog/shock proof etc. Bushnell just says that its rugged.

Not sure where you reading anything that says Bushnell is lacking over Vortex

And just so you know Bushnell is lifetime warranty ... Everyone is following Vortex since they came out with theirs, Burris changed along with Bushnell .... They still say 1 year in box but they are all in fact lifetime now just so you know.

All of these Vortex, Bushnell, Burris, Nikon, Etc. Scopes are lacking ... They are budget, and not the best no matter what you choose ... None really are better then others at all ... It's just down to the extras each has and magnification really.

Thanks for the reply but it's unfortunately incorrect info on your reply.

[falconman515]

I'm not asking about brands of scopes at all

I'm wanting to find out about 12x vs 18x magnification is all.

So if anyone has experience with using these two levels please let me know.

Thanks :)

[zombiescometh]

Not sure where you reading anything that says Bushnell is lacking over Vortex

And just so you know Bushnell is lifetime warranty ... Everyone is following Vortex since they came out with theirs, Burris changed along with Bushnell .... They still say 1 year in box but they are all in fact lifetime now just so you know.

All of these Vortex, Bushnell, Burris, Nikon, Etc. Scopes are lacking ... They are budget, and not the best no matter what you choose ... None really are better then others at all ... It's just down to the extras each has and magnification really.

Thanks for the reply but it's unfortunately incorrect info on your reply.
WARRANTY INFORMATION

Since 1984, the majority of our Bushnell sports optics products have been covered by a Limited Lifetime Warranty. Bushnell Outdoor Products guarantees these products to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.

These warranties do not cover consumer caused damages such as misuse, abuse or repairs attempted by someone other than our authorized technicians. Click here for*Repair Services.
Not a very good warranty after all.

[zombiescometh]

I'm not asking about brands of scopes at all

I'm wanting to find out about 12x vs 18x magnification is all.

So if anyone has experience with using these two levels please let me know.

Thanks :)
Here's a good read http://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/how-to-choose-a-riflescope.html

[falconman515]

It's lifetime warranty? That's all I need! I won't be using my scope as a football so I'm good.

As long as it's covered for life from defects that the only warranty a guy will ever need.

You've got a Vortex scope and very bias in defending it I get it

None of this is my question in this thread.

[falconman515]

Here's a good read http://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/how-to-choose-a-riflescope.html

Thanks for the link I'll check it out and see if it helps :)

[zombiescometh]

It's lifetime warranty? That's all I need! I won't be using my scope as a football so I'm good.

As long as it's covered for life from defects that the only warranty a guy will ever need.

You've got a Vortex scope and very bias in defending it I get it

None of this is my question in this thread.
I dont have a vortex i do have a couple of leupolds though.
https://precisionrifle.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/front-focal-plane-vs-second-focal-plane-rifle-scope-reticle.jpg?w=645

[longball]

12x should allow you to see bullet holes at 100yds on most targets depending on the color of the target. For years I bought budget scopes as you are describing and have owned several in both power ranges. What I've found is that the lower end optics, regardless of brand, start to lose their usable clarity beyond 10-12x. The other downside being that their eye box and eye relief get considerably smaller as power ranges increase.


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[USMC_Anglico]

Way too much magnification for those distances. 1-6 is fine. If you want to see hits without physically going to the target, spend your money on a good spotter. Much more useful/versatile.

Spending money on a budget scope to get high mag to see bullet holes in paper will be an exercise in frustration. Budget scopes are inexpensive for a reason, they generally have cheap glass, the higher you go in mag with cheap glass the more problems you get. No free lunch as always.

A decent spotter can be had to spot at 100-300 no problem

[skyblue]

Way too much magnification for those distances. 1-6 is fine. If you want to see hits without physically going to the target, spend your money on a good spotter. Much more useful/versatile.

Spending money on a budget scope to get high mag to see bullet holes in paper will be an exercise in frustration. Budget scopes are inexpensive for a reason, they generally have cheap glass, the higher you go in mag with cheap glass the more problems you get. No free lunch as always.

A decent spotter can be had to spot at 100-300 no problem
I believe the OP would like the ability to see his point of impact without having to take his eye off his scope...a spotting scope does not allow him that luxury...

[TAZ]

Way too much magnification for those distances. 1-6 is fine. If you want to see hits without physically going to the target, spend your money on a good spotter. Much more useful/versatile.

Spending money on a budget scope to get high mag to see bullet holes in paper will be an exercise in frustration. Budget scopes are inexpensive for a reason, they generally have cheap glass, the higher you go in mag with cheap glass the more problems you get. No free lunch as always.

A decent spotter can be had to spot at 100-300 no problem

1+ to what USMC_Anglico stated. No amount of magnification is going to make up for crappy glass so whatever you choose spend time looking though it at distance. Across the store isn't it. The highest I've gone is 16X for my 556 and it was nice to see my holes. I currently run a 2.5-10 and with my craptastic eyes seeing holes isn't possible unless I use shoot-n-see's or invert the printing (white bull on a black background) then I can see OK. One of the things to consider with the high end magnifications is mirage. I'm in TX and on a pretty hot day even at my 10X I can see mirage. 16-18x you'll be dealing with it a lot IMO.

IMO Id spend money on better glass even if it's at a lower magnification.

[ISiman/oh]

I have a 6-24x on my 25-06 and perfer to shoot it at 12x. Perfect for 100-150 yards shooting paper.


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[Unreconstructed]

Way too much magnification for those distances. 1-6 is fine. If you want to see hits without physically going to the target, spend your money on a good spotter. Much more useful/versatile.

Spending money on a budget scope to get high mag to see bullet holes in paper will be an exercise in frustration. Budget scopes are inexpensive for a reason, they generally have cheap glass, the higher you go in mag with cheap glass the more problems you get. No free lunch as always.

A decent spotter can be had to spot at 100-300 no problem

This. Exactly this.

[HKGuns]

As stated that is WAY more magnification than even my old eyes require. I would look at a 1-4 or 1-6x for the distances you state.

[ISiman/oh]

As stated that is WAY more magnification than even my old eyes require. I would look at a 1-4 or 1-6x for the distances you state.

I'm not sure you understand what he's looking for. He wants to punch paper from 100 yards and beyond 4x and 6x are not going to be too great at that.


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[TAZ]

I'm not sure you understand what he's looking for. He wants to punch paper from 100 yards and beyond 4x and 6x are not going to be too great at that.


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Punching paper @ 100 yds is not an issue for 1-4 or 1-6. Shooting teeny groups and seeing holes that's another story.

[falconman515]

I do have a sporting scope so I'm fine with seeing targets at a long distance.

And I already own a 1-6x scope.

I want to be able to actually SEE the target better at 100+ yards and have the ability in that shirt range to shoot smaller groups then what a 6x can provide along with having the satisfaction of Seeing those hit marks at the 100 odd yard mark with out having to stop and use the spotting scope.

I want to look, see the bullseye, hit the target, see my shot placement and shout again, all without moving from the scope.

I'm kinda looking at the Vortex Crossfire II 4-12 AO or the Diamondback 4-12 non AO

Would you guys recommend a target shooting scope to have the AO /parallax objective distance adjustment over one without?

Anyone have thought on Bushnell vs. Vortex?

12x should give me what I need and looking for.

[TAZ]

Can't help with the Vortex vs Bushnell as I don't own either. As for AO vs not; I'd get the AO if you're looking for teeny groups.

[a1madrid]

3-12 should be fine for the range you will be shooting at


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[falconman515]

I ordered a new scope already yesterday

The Primary Arms 4-14x44 First Focal Plane (FFP) came back in stock so I jumped on it for $230

Tons and tons of great reviews and many guys who know much more then me really recommended it for a budget optic that has most of the premium extras (FFP, parallax adjustment, mil/mil adjustment turrets, etc.)

Should be here by the end of the week and I hope to get it on the range this or next weekend to give it a go.

I already have their 1-6 ACSS so I am confident in PA since this will be my third scope from them over the last year.

Thanks for the replies guys ... I think I found exactly what I needed in this PA 1-14 :)

[dwhitehorne]

Please update when you get some time behind it. I have been looking at this scope also. David

[falconman515]

Please update when you get some time behind it. I have been looking at this scope also. David

You got it! ;)

[JohnnyC]

I've got that scope on a .22 and it works very well for that. I can see bullet flight through it. For a cheap scope it's fine.

[FourT6and2]

I know you already bought a scope. But just replying about the 1-6 comments. I have a 1-6. It's a great scope. I can definitely see bullet holes at 100 yards, but only with white targets or shoot-n-see. And you don't really have enough "resolution" to shoot, see your bullet hit and see groups through the scope. I still use a spotting scope sometimes. An FFP reticle at anything over 10x should be good. If I had to pick between 12x and 18x... I don't know. I'm sure the 18x scope is physically larger, no? That would influence my decision.

[tylerw02]

Resolution is what lets you see something better. Magnification with low resolution sucks. Adding more magnification rarely helps. My recommendation is return the 4-14, sell the 1-6x you have and use the money to buy a descent quality 1-4x, 1-6x, 2.5-8x, etc. For the record, I typically shoot 10x to 1,000 with an S&B. Sometimes if I'm ranting I'll turn it up to 20x. Mirage is too much a problem to go much higher 99% of the time.


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[falconman515]

Resolution is what lets you see something better. Magnification with low resolution sucks. Adding more magnification rarely helps. My recommendation is return the 4-14, sell the 1-6x you have and use the money to buy a descent quality 1-4x, 1-6x, 2.5-8x, etc. For the record, I typically shoot 10x to 1,000 with an S&B. Sometimes if I'm ranting I'll turn it up to 20x. Mirage is too much a problem to go much higher 99% of the time.


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No way I would agree with this info .... I just got the 4-14X44 PA scope in today and it's as clear as can be for me at about 150 yards down my road seeing and number on a license plate Clear As Day at 14X

Not sure how resolution works in glass but if we're talking about clarity I can't imagine it being much clearer (I'm sure the $1k scope are ... but I will never find out, and this is perfectly clear to me!) ... now maybe when it's 100 degrees out at 14X at 100-220 yards it may look a not as good as a nice sunny 65 degree day like today and mirage much more ... but even if so I'll dial back the Mag. a bit to help at even 10/12X is still double the magnification and looks crystal at those two settings.

And secondly if I was in the market for a 1-4X / 1-6X type scope I would buy the PA 1-6 all over again ... I don't think anything compares in that range of optics even close to that price point for sure.

I do like the over double magnification of the 4-14X scope though ... I am sure for range shooting that will be the way I go and maybe look into a RDS for close tactical work whenever I start doing that more.

My plan was not to keep both ... one was going to be sold ... not gonna be spending 600 plus on an optic.

I am looking forward to learning the mils reticle and seeing how the parallax settings helps as well .... plus the First Focal Plane is really neat zooming in the reticle the way it does to keep the mildots true at any magnification.

This of course is all out of the box mounted non shooting first impression ... here's to hoping it does even better down range. :)

[tylerw02]

No way I would agree with this info .... I just got the 4-14X44 PA scope in today and it's as clear as can be for me at about 150 yards down my road seeing and number on a license plate Clear As Day at 14X

Not sure how resolution works in glass but if we're talking about clarity I can't imagine it being much clearer (I'm sure the $1k scope are ... but I will never find out, and this is perfectly clear to me!) ... now maybe when it's 100 degrees out at 14X at 100-220 yards it may look a not as good as a nice sunny 65 degree day like today and mirage much more ... but even if so I'll dial back the Mag. a bit to help at even 10/12X is still double the magnification and looks crystal at those two settings.

And secondly if I was in the market for a 1-4X / 1-6X type scope I would buy the PA 1-6 all over again ... I don't think anything compares in that range of optics even close to that price point for sure.

I do like the over double magnification of the 4-14X scope though ... I am sure for range shooting that will be the way I go and maybe look into a RDS for close tactical work whenever I start doing that more.

My plan was not to keep both ... one was going to be sold ... not gonna be spending 600 plus on an optic.

I am looking forward to learning the mils reticle and seeing how the parallax settings helps as well .... plus the First Focal Plane is really neat zooming in the reticle the way it does to keep the mildots true at any magnification.

This of course is all out of the box mounted non shooting first impression ... here's to hoping it does even better down range. :)

You wouldn't agree because you've not got any experience. That's ok, you'll learn. I've been shooting precision rifle for years and started out in much the same way. You'll learn. It took me a few scopes to learn that my 25x cheap scope wasn't much compared to a $1500 quality scope with less power. This is from years of shooting, not looking through it once. But whatever suits you.


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[falconman515]

I am sure you are correct ... they have to have something over a $250 scope I would assume

But I won't ever learn ... I would Never in my life drop $1K Plus on an optic ... I am a once every other month weekend warrior ... no need to Ever spend that kinda of money for my recreational shooting needs.

I would LOVE to have the cream of the crop, it will just never happen as I could never in a million years justify a scope costing as much as the gun I am shooting under it.

I will keep my head in the sand and love what I got ... if I can shred the hell out of the bullseye then that ALL I need. :) (this will be known soon I guess if possible)

But hey who knows ... 5-10 years from now, Maybe I'll give it a shot ... doubt it but who knows. :)

[tylerw02]

Yeah glass is a better investment than the rifle if you're wanting to get serious about precision shooting. Have fun, enjoy your new rig.


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[ra2bach]

I'm not asking about brands of scopes at all

I'm wanting to find out about 12x vs 18x magnification is all.

So if anyone has experience with using these two levels please let me know.

Thanks :)




edit: never mind. you already got one...

[Krampus]

I see you have a scope that suits you, enjoy it. Give us some feedback from the range with varying amounts of sun/clouds if you can.

Krampus.

[wingspar]

just got the 4-14X44 PA scope in today and it's as clear as can be for me at about 150 yards down my road seeing and number on a license plate Clear As Day at 14X. This of course is all out of the box mounted non shooting first impression ... here's to hoping it does even better down range. :)

I’m looking at this scope too for a .308 bolt gun, so posting so I can see your results from using it at 100 yards or beyond.