View Full Version : Add second gun, carry smaller primary gun?
On occasion I'll carry a backup. When I do I consider if I'd carry two smallish guns more often than one medium sized gun and pocket sized gun.
Using glocks as the example, would I (or you ) rather carry a g19 and a pocket pistol or say, two g26's? (Or two Shields, two Kahrs, two glock 42s etc.)
You're over thinking this. If you could carry two G26's there is no reason you couldn't carry two G19's. The whole point of a BUG is to back up your primary. I have carried my BUG j-frame as a primary gun at times. I've even carried two j-frames before. 90% of the time I just carry my G19 with a spare mag. The other 10% it's usually just a j-frame with 2-3 reloads.
However, I could see carrying a single stack 9mm with another single stack as a secondary. But with all of these single stack guns on the market the G26/27/33 pistols have no useful purpose to me anymore.
Sheesh. Where do you guys live? Fallujah?
Sheesh. Where do you guys live? Fallujah?
This made my day.
But, in all seriousness, I would rather have an extra mag or three than carry a BUG. If I've gotten into a situation where I've lost my primary and have to worry about if I've got a BUG on me or not, I've got bigger issues at hand.
If I do carry a back-up (very rare), it is always a very small (j-frame or .380 Kahr), and can be put in a pocket and takes up very little space. When you start putting on so much firepower, you may be taking away from space to carry something like a small med kit that might be more relevant.
Two guns sound excessive unless your livelihood is pulling over people who may want to kill you. Why not carry more mags for one gun? At some point you have to ask, what are the odds of getting into a fight where I will use my gun, then factor in the odds your gun will not work, or you won't be able to use it and you would even need a back up.
Sheesh. Where do you guys live? Fallujah?
I actually had this same thought watching a YouTube video about people's EDC some years ago. This one guy carried four pistols, a G34 w/TLR2, G26 w 2 extra G17 mags a P3AT w/spare mag & one of the NAA 22's. 3 fixed blade knives, 2 spyderco folders and one of those little Case folders with three different blades. Two Leatherman multi tools & a Swiss army knife. He had 2 sets of keys that would make a janitor green with envy, 3 pens, 3 hand held lights, 2 cell phones, 2 wallets, 2 change purses with a specific amount of money in each. And paracord, just so much paracord...I mean this dude was bat shit crazy with the OCD about his EDC. He had a justification in his mind about a need for all of this stuff with contingency plans for how to employ it but you could tell he wouldn't have the first clue what to do if shit actually went sideways.
It was sad really. Dude probably been on some meds.
Yeah, cuz it's so stupid to carry 2 guns. All the tacticool kids are SO sane only carrying there RMR equipped G19s... :confused: It's a square range, you'll have time to clear a catestrophic malfunction, or always draw your primary when you are fending off an attacker at close range trying to stab you.
I don't live in Fallujah but have no problem carrying two handguns. Does that make me paranoid for slipping a 442 or LCP into my front pocket? If so, well you're probably one of those types who talk about carrying but you mean from the safe to the range back to the bench and then reverse.
I IWB a HK P2000SK or Walther PPS as 3:30, 11 o'clock horizontal mag pouch, and a LCP or 442 in front left pocket. I take the safety of my family seriously and if toting around another 14 oz of steel and polymer might help, well it's an easy yes.
A pocket gun has the distinct advantage of being able to be gripped with no one the wiser if a situation gets uncomfortable.
As always, YMMV.
If I've gotten into a situation where I've lost my primary and have to worry about if I've got a BUG on me or not, I've got bigger issues at hand.Yeah, and you'll have nothing left to do but cower in fear. ;)
Yeah, and you'll have nothing left to do but cower in fear. ;)
I carry a glock 17. Sometimes I carry a glock 26 when I can't carry my 17. I always carry my sw bodyguard 380. It's my "no excuses gun" as in its so small I have no excuse why it's not clipped to waistband or in my pocket. It weighs like a pound, it's nothin.
Chris
I normally carry a glock 19 or 32 and an extra mag. Sometimes I drop a ruger lcr in a pocket too. The total weight and bulk of the three items is a bit of drag.
This is when I think, "I'd carry the second gun more often if the primary gun was smaller and lighter".
So that's why I figured I'd bring it up for peer review.
Like was mentioned we play the odds about what gear we might need. But we need to be consistent and train absolutely. And we realize the fight to survive doesn't end just because we can't throw bullets.
Redbeardsong
01-29-15, 21:02
I've tried carrying my M&P Shield as a backup to my M&P9 once or twice but could never get comfortable. Two guns IWB just doesn't work for me. Plus the weak side BUG gets in the way of my spare Mag(s). But maybe I'll find a way that works.
Yeah, cuz it's so stupid to carry 2 guns. All the tacticool kids are SO sane only carrying there RMR equipped G19s... :confused: It's a square range, you'll have time to clear a catestrophic malfunction, or always draw your primary when you are fending off an attacker at close range trying to stab you.
I don't live in Fallujah but have no problem carrying two handguns. Does that make me paranoid for slipping a 442 or LCP into my front pocket? If so, well you're probably one of those types who talk about carrying but you mean from the safe to the range back to the bench and then reverse.
I IWB a HK P2000SK or Walther PPS as 3:30, 11 o'clock horizontal mag pouch, and a LCP or 442 in front left pocket. I take the safety of my family seriously and if toting around another 14 oz of steel and polymer might help, well it's an easy yes.
A pocket gun has the distinct advantage of being able to be gripped with no one the wiser if a situation gets uncomfortable.
As always, YMMV.
I didn't say it was stupid, but for me, where I live, in my daily life....unnecessary. In fact, I rarely even carry one gun.
As always, YMMV.
Averageman
01-29-15, 21:57
I have a P64 that I sometimes carry with my G17 or G26.
I admit I'm nuttier than a squirrel turd sometimes but sometimes I just open the safe and say, "Yeah it just feels right." and drop the second gun in my pocket.
I actually had this same thought watching a YouTube video about people's EDC some years ago. This one guy carried four pistols, a G34 w/TLR2, G26 w 2 extra G17 mags a P3AT w/spare mag & one of the NAA 22's. 3 fixed blade knives, 2 spyderco folders and one of those little Case folders with three different blades. Two Leatherman multi tools & a Swiss army knife. He had 2 sets of keys that would make a janitor green with envy, 3 pens, 3 hand held lights, 2 cell phones, 2 wallets, 2 change purses with a specific amount of money in each. And paracord, just so much paracord...I mean this dude was bat shit crazy with the OCD about his EDC. He had a justification in his mind about a need for all of this stuff with contingency plans for how to employ it but you could tell he wouldn't have the first clue what to do if shit actually went sideways.
It was sad really. Dude probably been on some meds.
Was it Blade?
Yeah, and you'll have nothing left to do but cower in fear. ;)
I guess I should have explained my thought process a little more. My primary carry is a Sig P938, which could be considered a pocket gun. I shoot it accurately and I'm very comfortable with it. I suppose that I could carry a second smaller gun - LCP, Bodyguard, or even a 238 (I'm partial to Sig). However, I would rather carry an extra couple of mags (938 has a 6+1 capacity), than carry a smaller .380 in a pocket, etc.
That's my thought process, though. I've been looking for a bit larger of a gun that I can carry and not feel like I have a cannon on me - as far as size goes. If I do find something a bit larger that I'm more comfortable with, I would more than likely consider having a pocket gun on me, as well.
I normally carry a glock 19 or 32 and an extra mag. Sometimes I drop a ruger lcr in a pocket too. The total weight and bulk of the three items is a bit of drag.
This is when I think, "I'd carry the second gun more often if the primary gun was smaller and lighter".
So that's why I figured I'd bring it up for peer review.
Like was mentioned we play the odds about what gear we might need. But we need to be consistent and train absolutely. And we realize the fight to survive doesn't end just because we can't throw bullets.
I wouldn't change from this to a G26. You don't really gain anything with them ove a G19.
I couid see droping the G19 to AIWB carry something like a Shield/PPS/Khar with a pocket gun like you LCR or another single stack semi auto.
I wouldn't change from this to a G26. You don't really gain anything with them ove a G19.
I couid see droping the G19 to AIWB carry something like a Shield/PPS/Khar with a pocket gun like you LCR or another single stack semi auto.
I agree about the g26. I've been carrying the g19 sized frames i.s w.b in florida for about 10 years or more now and it gets old sometimes. (It's on a proper belt in a comp tac holster)
I'd like smaller and lighter but I'd rather step down in caliber than give up much ammo capacity
Years ago, while training with the "Guru" Ken Hackathorn here on Long Island, the topic of second guns/BUGs came up. To MOST of the classes' surprise, Ken removed a Smith 642 from his front pocket. He said something like it's "Bad JuJu" to not have a BUG... I sincerely think that if Ken Hackathorn thinks it's a good idea to carry a second gun, IT's A GOOD IDEA.
Psalms144.1
01-30-15, 11:39
As always, this is an enormously personal issue. GENERALLY, I think "down gunning" from a mid-full size pistol (a real fighting pistol) to two less capable firearms is a bad idea. Having said that, for ME, I find it minimally difficult to conceal a "normal" pistol (G19) and a BUG - usually a G26, at all times. YMMV. As to carrying more magazines instead of a BUG, the BUG's primary purpose (as opposed to revolver-days of the "New York reload") is to allow you to keep fighting if your primary pistol fails. I've run a number of drills with a number of people of various skills with BUGs in the most popular carry locations (pockets, ankle, weak side waist, etc), and found that only the weak side draw provides for a faster recovery than reloading the primary.
Full disclosure: I don't carry a B.U.G. Some of it I buy, some not so much.
That being said, I would think that carrying a "mid-size" with a compact B.U.G. is a better way to go than carrying two small B.U.G.s. IMO. The only thing I would add here is to vet whatever you end up doing, on the range... I have several LE buddies who carry B.U.G.s for "contact" shots. When in a training environment, none of them were able to actually get to them because of their location/method of carry. After adjustments, they could, but it was an eye opener for them as they had "carried them that way for years"...
Condition Write
01-30-15, 14:08
I carry a BUG because Mrs. Write doesn't carry her own gun and my pockets are an extension of her purse.
Beat Trash
01-30-15, 16:13
On occasion I'll carry a backup. When I do I consider if I'd carry two smallish guns more often than one medium sized gun and pocket sized gun.
Using glocks as the example, would I (or you ) rather carry a g19 and a pocket pistol or say, two g26's? (Or two Shields, two Kahrs, two glock 42s etc.)
I admit that I seldom carry a BUG when off-duty. I do carry a Glock 19, or an M&P9c. Either way, I carry at least one 17 rd magazine as a reload.
On duty, I carry an issued M&P9, with a Shield as a BUG. If I were a bit more "rounded", I would consider carrying a M&P9c as a BUG. But it would stick out too much when carried in the fashion that I carry my BUG.
To answer the OP's question, I would (and do) much prefer to carry one effective sized gun and a reload than two harder to shoot pistols, when carrying concealed. I would rather have one Glock 19 and an extra magazine or two than two Glock 26's, Shields, Kahr's or Glock 42's.
I am not a walking armory in that I expect to arm others. If I need a BUG when off-duty/CCW, it's because something happened to my primary. A Kahr PM9, J-Frame 642, or even a Glock 26 or 42 would make a great BUG for this environment.
If I were tempted to carry a Glock 19 and a Glock 26, both IWB, then I'd just go with a pair of Glock 19's.
I'm not knocking the concept of carrying a BUG for non-LEO CCW holders. I personally feel that when not at work, and facing similar issues as a CCW holder, I am better served with a medium size "fighting pistol" and two extra magazines than carrying two sub-compacts.
The best use of a BUG, IMO, is maybe in a pocket of an outer garment in the wintertime or some other situation where accessing the primary could be hindered. For example, it's 20 degrees outside and you're all bundled up, meaning your G19 carried AIWB is under a coat, vest/sweater, and shirt. BUT, your J frame/LCP/etc is in your outside coat pocket where your right hand is.
Or, you drive a lot, maybe for a living, and accessing your primary on your waist is tough, but a BUG in a shoulder or ankle holster can be more easily accessed from the sitting position.
I admit that I seldom carry a BUG when off-duty. I do carry a Glock 19, or an M&P9c. Either way, I carry at least one 17 rd magazine as a reload.
On duty, I carry an issued M&P9, with a Shield as a BUG. If I were a bit more "rounded", I would consider carrying a M&P9c as a BUG. But it would stick out too much when carried in the fashion that I carry my BUG.
To answer the OP's question, I would (and do) much prefer to carry one effective sized gun and a reload than two harder to shoot pistols, when carrying concealed. I would rather have one Glock 19 and an extra magazine or two than two Glock 26's, Shields, Kahr's or Glock 42's.
I am not a walking armory in that I expect to arm others. If I need a BUG when off-duty/CCW, it's because something happened to my primary. A Kahr PM9, J-Frame 642, or even a Glock 26 or 42 would make a great BUG for this environment.
If I were tempted to carry a Glock 19 and a Glock 26, both IWB, then I'd just go with a pair of Glock 19's.
I'm not knocking the concept of carrying a BUG for non-LEO CCW holders. I personally feel that when not at work, and facing similar issues as a CCW holder, I am better served with a medium size "fighting pistol" and two extra magazines than carrying two sub-compacts.
Thanks for the input. Speaking of LEO's less than half of the ones I work with carry anything off duty. Several of those only started carrying because the Glock 42 became available. A couple of them call the Glock 19 a "hog leg" and can't understand why someone would carry something so big off duty. But that's another topic...
The guns I've been thinking of that are smaller than a G19 but still hold a good number of rounds are guns like the Beretta 85 (?) for example. Nice SA triggers, 13+1, accurate, pretty reliable, big enough to get a hold of, low recoil and 5-8 oz less weight.
gtmtnbiker98
01-30-15, 22:33
I didn't say it was stupid, but for me, where I live, in my daily life....unnecessary. In fact, I rarely even carry one gun.
As always, YMMV.
Yep, unnecessary til it becomes necessary. If you rarely carry, then why comment on topics from those that do?
http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job. Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty.
Please read the story. It sheds light on what it was like on the city streets in the USA.
Posted by Hmac V
I didn't say it was stupid, but for me, where I live, in my daily life....unnecessary. In fact, I rarely even carry one gun.
As always, YMMV.
Yep, unnecessary til it becomes necessary. If you rarely carry, then why comment on topics from those that do?
When I was a departmental firearms instructor, I would ask my inservice and recruits (reference a second/BUG and/or off-duty), "Why carry a spare tire in the trunk? You'll never need it, right...?
Beat Trash
01-31-15, 09:03
Thanks for the input. Speaking of LEO's less than half of the ones I work with carry anything off duty. Several of those only started carrying because the Glock 42 became available. A couple of them call the Glock 19 a "hog leg" and can't understand why someone would carry something so big off duty. But that's another topic...
The guns I've been thinking of that are smaller than a G19 but still hold a good number of rounds are guns like the Beretta 85 (?) for example. Nice SA triggers, 13+1, accurate, pretty reliable, big enough to get a hold of, low recoil and 5-8 oz less weight.
Personally I'd rather see the officers carry an 8 rd M&P Shield 9mm with a spare magazine than a 13 rd Beretta 380. I'm not a huge 380 fan. The bigger and fatter the average American gets, the less the 380 impresses me.
As for the "Hog Leg", well ask your officers to remember the last time they were on a legit "gun run", in which they had an armed or potentially armed suspect(s) at gunpoint. Then ask them if their duty pistol felt "Too Big". My full size M&P9 will feel like an M&P Shield when the adrenaline starts to kick in. As an on-duty LEO, you have additional resources, radio, back up on scene or enroute. As an off-duty LEO or a non-LEO CCW holder, you do not have those additional resources.
I stand on my decision to focus on a primary CCW gun that is effective and shootable, such as a Glock 19 or an M&P9c, along with an additional magazine or two. If I feel the need, then I may consider a BUG added to that mix. But two BUG's do not equate to one effective primary pistol. At least in my mind.
Someone once said that a pistol is meant to be comforting, not comfortable. With just a little research in the selection of carry gear and belt, it is possible to have comforting and comfortable at the same time.
Yep, unnecessary til it becomes necessary. If you rarely carry, then why comment on topics from those that do?
Agreed.
buckpatriot
02-02-15, 22:43
I like the idea that has been mentioned of focusing on the larger primary carry weapon with extra mags versus 2 smaller. Adding a smaller sidearm to exterior clothing such as a jacket is a good idea. I would have a hard time being comfortable with 2 weapons on my person. That being said, I can see a legit need for LEO wanting and having a BUG. All will be dependent on personal preference.
Beat Trash
02-02-15, 22:59
To be honest, the only time I carry a BUG when off-duty (and the only reason I keep a 642 J-Frame in my safe) is for extreme cold weather when I wear a heavy coat. I stick a J-Frame on a coat pocket. Buried under the coat is my primary carry gun and spare magazine(s).
When at work, a M&P Shield is my BUG of choice.
I'll say that my stance on BUGs is they are extra add ons and your primary shouldn't change size because of a BUG.
My BUGs have actually become my "always" guns. Either a 442 or LCP in my pocket from feet on the floor until feet in the bed for the night. Its just like putting your iPhone in your pocket, just another tool in the box. This has reduced my "no gun time while awake" to about nil. Then after getting dressed the primary goes on.
Others may prefer to go about unarmed, to think people like me are paranoid, but then again its a free country for them to think this. I'll say that it's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it. It's not a solution to everything and it's use is serious, but just like a fire extinguisher and homeowners insurance, I hope to never use it but I'm not going to simply "hope".
YMMV.
http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job. Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty.
Please read the story. It sheds light on what it was like on the city streets in the USA.
That's a very good article. It's amazing to me that someone can be hit so many times and still keep going. Adrenaline does some scary things to a person.
Reading something like that will definitely make you stop and think before you walk out the door with a .380 and a single mag.
BuzzinSATX
02-03-15, 17:11
I carry a BUG because Mrs. Write doesn't carry her own gun and my pockets are an extension of her purse.
good answer!
BuzzinSATX
02-03-15, 17:22
....
....It's not a solution to everything and it's use is serious, but just like a fire extinguisher and homeowners insurance, I hope to never use it but I'm not going to simply "hope".
YMMV.
I had a boss who, when he heard someone say "hope" in a conversation, always reply "You know, 'hope' is a plan, albeit not a good one." Made me chuckle
I'm with you...not a dang thing wrong with a backup gun. Too many guns...too much money...too much fun...too many bullets...too prepared...
if I support the idea (and rights) of an armed citizen, but I have an opinion on what he/she should or should not carry, then how is that different than the Queen of NY, Andy Cuomo, limiting round capacity? Just another level of control.
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