Precision Armament EFAB 5.56 vs KAC MAMS 5.56 [Archive]

View Full Version : Precision Armament EFAB 5.56 vs KAC MAMS 5.56

BufordTJustice

02-03-15, 15:00

First, this is the Handy Rifle with the SLR Rifleworks Sentry 7 set screw (melonited) gas block at setting 7 from full closed. I'm running an A5H0 buffer with a Springco GREEN spring.

Ammo was Federal XM193 55gr Brown box.

Magazines were Magpul 30rd PMAGs gen M3.

EFAB was tested first, then I walked back to my car, switched devices, and tested the MAMS. Same gun. Same ammo. Less than 15 minutes apart.

Both devices were attached and timed using the Precision Armament stainless shim set. No POA/POI shift was observed out to 50 yards.

Very special thanks to Jerrysimons for loaning me the MAMS and shipping it to me on his dime for the benefit of the M4C community. Also thank you to my buddy Jon who did the camera work. Couldn't have done it without you, buddy!

Thoughts, impressions, and the review proper will come later. I'm moving to a new unit in my agency (a promotion), but my free time is at a premium lately. Might not be till the weekend.

However, I'll leave you all with a brief spoiler: my guess about how they would perform was spot on......and they are the cream of the crop for currently available muzzle devices, IMHO.

My buddy, the cameraman, had his 16" BCM ELW fluted with 13" KMR, BCM comp, and A5H2 buffer on deck as well.....though it's apples and oranges.

REVIEW:

Course of fire was 4 rounds standing with a reasonably firm hold on the gun, 4 rounds with the forearm resting in my open hand, and 4 prone with a semi-firm position behind the gun.

Not everybody weighs 230+ and lifts heavy, so me getting an Iron Mike grip on the gun would simply allow zero gun movement and give the videos zero value. Moving along....

PA EFAB:

As I stated in my previous reviews of same, it allows virtually no muzzle rise in my normal shooting stance and, in the video, still very little shows on camera. It's recoil pulse is stronger, but slightly smoother than the KAC MAMS. It has no flash and it adds very little (if any) additional back pressure into the gas system. Muzzle movement at 15 yards remains circular within a 3-4 inch circle even with a loose hold. With a firm hold, at the same yardage, net muzzle movement is under three inches and follow up shots can be pressed at will, as often as desired. Shots from prone resulted in no discernable rocking motions from front to rear.

KAC MAMS:

The MAMS keeps muzzle movement very low and is also an extremely neutral brake (no muzzle rise or muzzle dip). Its recoil pulse is slightly sharper, but overall was weaker than the EFAB's, and both were straight to the rear. The difference is so slight, I doubt I would have been able to draw the distinction if I had not fired them back to back. The MAMS added so little additional back pressure over the EFAB (which itself is identical to an A2 in my testing), that they appear to be nearly identical. The additional gas system pressure created by the MAMS is so minimal, that the same setting was used on the gas block for each. See the next paragraph for clarity. KAC clearly did a ton of research to ensure that gas system pressure was not unnecessarily increased over a flash hider, and it is readily apparent. Way to go KAC and PA as this is a huge benefit of these designs. The KAC has some relief cuts around the exit aperture that the EFAB does not have. These apparently work to nullify the effects of the gas expansion chamber inside the device (which would normally boost gas system pressure by a bunch, much like a suppressor does).

The MAMS 15 yard muzzle movement remained in a roughly 2-3 inch circle with a loose hold, and was also in a basically circular pattern. Follow up shots could be taken at will.

GAS DRIVE:

For this test, to ensure proper evaluation of gas system drive (and parity between muzzle devices), I set up the SLR Sentry 7 such that it would cycle the XM193, but not lock back on empty in the EFAB (setting 7 from closed). The MAMS did not lock back on any of the strings of fire except the prone string.

FLASH:

Flash was occasionally seen as a dull glow near the ports on the MAMS, while none was observed from the EFAB. I also ran Tula through both and the results were the same. Keep in mind this is through a Rainier Arms Mountain Series 18" barrel.

FINDINGS:

If anything stuck out to me, it was how remarkably well and how remarkably similar these two muzzle devices performed. Honestly, on a heavier gun, with more gas drive, it might be impossible to differentiate them except maybe for flash on some ammo, in the near dark. No additional blast or concussion that I was able to detect as the shooter over an A2. None. No adverse effects on gas drive.

Really, it comes down to what your goal is for your particular gun. If you want a mount for a (KAC) can, the MAMS is simply a foregone conclusion; nobody else is even close to this level of refined performance for a can mount. If you are shopping for a non mount, then the EFAB must be considered. The EFAB's ability to rival true flash hiders in terms of real world flash suppression is impressive and sets it apart from most other non mount muzzle devices.

Original EFAB impressions thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=158818

*******************************
MAMS:
http://vimeo.com/118647503

EFAB:
http://vimeo.com/118647680

&

http://vimeo.com/118647579

mtdawg169

02-03-15, 15:34

Hell yes.

Bukake47

02-04-15, 02:45

I am interested in knowing if there is a discernible difference in concussion, and if so, how much. Nice videos.

BufordTJustice

02-04-15, 05:44

I am interested in knowing if there is a discernible difference in concussion, and if so, how much. Nice videos.
Basically none from the shooter. Barely more from the MAMS at a 45 from the muzzle. So little difference, if i hadn't A-B'd them back to back, I probably would not have been able to tell the difference.

BufordTJustice

02-05-15, 13:30

Review posted.

1911-A1

02-05-15, 13:44

Good post.

How do they compare to the A2?

BufordTJustice

02-05-15, 15:20

Good post.

How do they compare to the A2?
Neither of them are far off for flash suppression.....the EFAB might even be better. Both reduce recoil and overall muzzle movement more than an A2. Though one could get over 20 A2's for one EFAB, or almost 50 A2's for one MAMS.

vicious_cb

02-05-15, 16:01

BufordTJustice

02-05-15, 19:09

So what do you prefer? I don't really understand what you mean by stronger but smoother and weaker but sharper as I can imagine how difficult it is to describe something like that. But if the EFAB is almost half the price isnt it logical to go with the cheaper if their performance is so similar?
Well, I don't have the finances to buy a MAMS and a new KAC QDC can, so my options are limited by default to the EFAB. Given my personal preference for flash suppression, I think I would be happy with the EFAB regardless.

As far as the recoil impulses, think of the pulse in two terms: overall or peak force, and the curve or time curve of the force. The wider the bell curve, the softer the impact will feel, even if the peak is slightly higher. That's what I mean. If you visualize it like a graph of a pressure curve, that may help.

The EFAB has a higher peak, but it also seems wider. I should reiterate, that this difference likely would not have been discernable if i hadn't shot them back to back, on the same gun, which weighs less than 7 pounds.

1911-A1

02-05-15, 22:38

Muzzle devices are getting so similar in their effectiveness that we are going to be needing lab equipment to study their performance.

ColtSeavers

02-05-15, 22:56

Just wanted to say thank you Buford (and friends) for the comparison with video.

BufordTJustice

02-06-15, 06:58

Muzzle devices are getting so similar in their effectiveness that we are going to be needing lab equipment to study their performance.

Correct, but they're also better than ever. It may be that we are approaching the point of diminishing returns.

BufordTJustice

02-06-15, 14:28

EFAB:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/06/3b9f88536cbbd2df1607212334d2e7cd.jpg

MAMS:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/06/1880e93a3e1b70e09e6e411b7223bea9.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/06/a7706a128aacdf356fb845180af4eca0.jpg

thmpr

02-06-15, 16:10

Just my observation, the MAMS appear to control the muzzle rise slightly better.

BufordTJustice

02-06-15, 16:24

Just my observation, the MAMS appear to control the muzzle rise slightly better.
I might have held the guns slightly differently for the videos, but I shot dozens of rounds through each and they are so close to identical it's a draw.

EDIT: I added photos of the exit apertures to the above post.

1911-A1

02-06-15, 16:36

Correct, but they're also better than ever. It may be that we are approaching the point of diminishing returns.

I agree. I think they should all be compared to the A2 as a baseline. I recall Vuurwapen blog made a convincing argument that the $120 Battlecomp didn't provide much better performance than a $6 A2 FH.

Tzook

02-07-15, 07:23

Great comparison man, thanks for doing the videos. The EFAB is an awesome muzzle device, and I recommend them constantly.

BufordTJustice

02-07-15, 14:34

I agree. I think they should all be compared to the A2 as a baseline. I recall Vuurwapen blog made a convincing argument that the $120 Battlecomp didn't provide much better performance than a $6 A2 FH.

I totally agree with his comparison. If an A2 comes as standard, then it is more than fair to compare all others to that. That's a truly relevant comparison.

As for the BC, don't get me started. I said from the beginning that its recoil reduction wasn't that great to begin with and that it resulted in an actual increase in recoil some guns and gas systems due to the fact that it causes such an excess of gas pressure.....much like a suppressor. Mediocre flash performance, moderate muzzle compensation, muzzle dip for some, and sometimes increased rearward recoil now for almost $150 just ain't cutting it. The EFAB destroys the BC for flash performance, it causes no muzzle dip, and has virtually no discernable effect on gas system pressure......and has less blast for the shooter and bystanders. For nearly the same price.

Whether this is worth the asking price for an EFAB is a question that can only be answered on an individual basis. But, the EFAB certainly does do everything it is advertised to do.

vicious_cb

02-07-15, 15:47

How does it compare to the AFAB? Is the EFAB just an AFAB 2.0?

BufordTJustice

02-07-15, 18:14

How does it compare to the AFAB? Is the EFAB just an AFAB 2.0?
The EFAB is more neutral than the AFAB mini. I got some slight muzzle dip with rapid fire strings and pronounced rocking motions when shooting mag prone using the AFAB mini. It also increased gas system pressure, though about as much as the Lantac Dragon DGN556b (so not too badly). The AFAB has more flash than the EFAB, though not much more.

The EFAB delivers a slightly smoother recoil impulse as well.

TAZ

02-07-15, 18:16

BufordTJustice

02-07-15, 18:37

Thanks for the reviews and time you take to get us information and give us paralysis by analysis syndrome :)

For my current build its down to the EFAB or Surefire brake assuming that I can get my hands on a can in the near future.
I enjoy it too, actually. Also, please thank jerrysimons as he loaned me the MAMS, which was brand spanking new.

Interesting tidbit of info: if you soak a muzzle device in FireClean for several days before you shoot it for the first time, the fouling comes off like it was never there in the first place as long as you keep the round count reasonable. ;)

jerrysimons

02-08-15, 00:09

I enjoy it too, actually. Also, please thank jerrysimons as he loaned me the MAMS, which was brand spanking new.

Interesting tidbit of info: if you soak a muzzle device in FireClean for several days before you shoot it for the first time, the fouling comes off like it was never there in the first place as long as you keep the round count reasonable. ;)

I am just happy to help get this comparison out there, BTJ made it happen with the willingness to do the comparison and the experienced finesse of all things recoil to do it justice (look at that Handy Rifle defy physics!). I am pleased to see in this comparison such an effective non-mount alternative to the MAMS on the market.

Plasman

02-09-15, 00:27

How much does the MAMS weigh compared to the EFAB (3.5oz)?

connorr93

02-09-15, 01:08

.....

vicious_cb

02-09-15, 04:14

You left the Griffin Armament M4SD Flash Comp out of your testing.

Maybe you should read the thread title...

BufordTJustice

02-09-15, 05:36

How much does the MAMS weigh compared to the EFAB (3.5oz)?
I weighed the MAMS before i packaged it back up to send back to jerrysimons. I would have to consult my notes, but 2.7oz IIRC.

mtdawg169

02-09-15, 06:45

You left the Griffin Armament M4SD Flash Comp out of your testing.
I've used the flash comp. It had more flash and less muzzle control than the (2) MAMS I owned. So, No, I don't think he forgot anything. The efab and MAMS appear to perform very similarly. Relatively speaking, the flash comp isn't even close.

jerrysimons

02-09-15, 09:33

How much does the MAMS weigh compared to the EFAB (3.5oz)?

I have weighed two MAMAS, both came in right at 2.45/2.5oz with a couple of shims.

These are the stainless steel MAMS which KAC doesn't seem to be shipping now. Don't know what future plans are but apparently an Inconel version is in the works.

Surefire and SilencerCo brakes both weigh 3.95/4oz with shims for reference.

connorr93

02-09-15, 10:42

.....

mtdawg169

02-09-15, 10:56

Don't get me wrong, the flash comp is a pretty good comp. But there's a notable difference compared to the MAMS. The limiting factor for the MAMS has always been cost and availability. Now, the EFAB appears to offer comparable performance at a better price point.

connorr93

02-09-15, 11:08

.....

mildot

02-09-15, 12:04

BTJ any chance you might be trying out the .308 version? Great review BTW. Thanks

Jwknutson17

02-09-15, 12:51

Thanks for the great videos. I have thought that the MAMS is the best all around preforming muzzle device that I own for my SBR's. It also hurts me to cover the things up with the QDC suppressor ;) The performance looks to be close to the MAMS and with its priced less and its availability, this seems like a good choice for those not mounting KAC suppressors.

BufordTJustice

02-09-15, 13:36

Im just kinda torn between the EFAB and AFAB. The EFAB is supposed to perform better, but the price is really out there and I like the looks of the AFAB better. Then there's the shim kit... my poor wallet.
The longer your barrel and gas system, the more the AFAB mini comes into its own. The EFAB, according to precision armament, was developed for SBR's. However, on my gun, the EFAB was better in every way.

Think of the AFAB mini as a BC minus flame ring, blast, gas system pressure increase, and muzzle dip.

And, yes, their shims aren't cheap....but they're the best I've yet used.

BufordTJustice

02-09-15, 13:37

BTJ any chance you might be trying out the .308 version? Great review BTW. Thanks
Not until BCM builds one in .308 to mount it on! :)

BufordTJustice

02-09-15, 17:01

jerrysimons

02-09-15, 17:34

BufordTJustice

02-09-15, 17:42

It is impossible to find a new MAMS right now so that is definetly a factor. Curious what KAC will do if they offer both a stainless and Inconel or do any changes.

As a non-mount the EFAB is sure impressive especially if it beats the MAMS out in flash suppression, of coarse there is a little give in recoil reduction.

This cut-away pic is interesting, explains some of the flash suppresion as the perforations allow the gases to expand more as they are redirected.

http://precisionarmament.com/v1/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PRECISION-ARMAMENT-EFAB-HYBRID-SBR-FLASH-HIDER-COMPENSATOR-CUTAWAY1.jpg
They are divergent gas nozzles....Not too dissimilar from rocket nozzles in basic appearance.....though that is WAY out of my lane.

I sure wish a precision armament engineer could opine on this.

mtdawg169

02-09-15, 17:44

This cut-away pic is interesting, explains some of the flash suppresion as the perforations allow the gases to expand more as they are redirected.

http://precisionarmament.com/v1/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PRECISION-ARMAMENT-EFAB-HYBRID-SBR-FLASH-HIDER-COMPENSATOR-CUTAWAY1.jpg

Wow, that is impressive. How do they make that? MIM?

BufordTJustice

02-09-15, 17:44

Wow, that is impressive. How do they make that? MIM?
Nope. TONS of CNC time.

jpmuscle

02-09-15, 17:55

Inconel mams? No f'ing way....

Awesome

jerrysimons

02-09-15, 18:14

Wow, that is impressive. How do they make that? MIM?

Indeed, it obviously not a MAMS rip-off.

mtdawg169

02-10-15, 00:45

Inconel mams? No f'ing way....

Awesome
I've been under the impression that the MAMS already incorporated some inconel into the original design?

jerrysimons

02-10-15, 10:09

I've been under the impression that the MAMS already incorporated some inconel into the original design?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/261121_New_MAMS_timeline_.html&page=1

Originally Posted By SxPxDx:

Originally Posted By Blackfoot_7:

Originally Posted By BoogieMan2:
New MAMS?

New MAMS is supposed to be 100% Inconel.

Slightly incorrect.

There will be 2 versions, both will be the same dimensionally though.

1 will be Inconel, the other will remain steel.

The tines and porting holes changed slightly from the original MAMS.

mtdawg169

02-10-15, 21:05

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/261121_New_MAMS_timeline_.html&page=1
Saw that a few weeks ago. But some time ago, there was some discussion over there relative to the weld quality (aesthetics) on the MAMS (early production runs). Long story short is that the MAMS was made of steel & inconel and the welding of dissimilar metals was the cause. I believe it was Kevin that discussed it, but I could be wrong.

jerrysimons

02-10-15, 22:19

Saw that a few weeks ago. But some time ago, there was some discussion over there relative to the weld quality (aesthetics) on the MAMS (early production runs). Long story short is that the MAMS was made of steel & inconel and the welding of dissimilar metals was the cause. I believe it was Kevin that discussed it, but I could be wrong.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

BufordTJustice

02-11-15, 20:10

Interesting. Thanks for the info.
MAMS weighed on same scale used to weigh the EFAB: 2.34 oz, 66-67 grams.

EFAB came in at 3.5 oz, 98 grams.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=158818

BufordTJustice

02-16-15, 12:46

In case anybody saw, I do have the BCM KAG mounted backwards. I found that I prefer it that way. I like the small ledge over the angle. The good news is BCM saw fit to design it with this in mind. I'm very pleased with it as a simple hand stop. Go BCM!

I just wanted to nip this in the bud before it turned into another HK ad fiasco. ;)

BufordTJustice

02-26-15, 06:02

Plouffedaddy (MrGunsnGear) shows the EFAB in the first few shots of his most recent video. Looks about like my test......he doesn't appear to be muscling the gun and it doesn't really move much at all. But I'll let him speak for himself if he has a chance to chime-in here.

https://www.full30.com/video/607b1b74de3a2bbfd86a5b7ffc205103

vicious_cb

02-26-15, 19:15

mildot

03-11-15, 11:19

Sooo, I installed an EFAB on my Colt 6945, and it is "short stroking" kinda odd since this suppose to work with 10" barrels? Any ideas?

mtdawg169

03-11-15, 12:03

Sooo, I installed an EFAB on my Colt 6945, and it is "short stroking" kinda odd since this suppose to work with 10" barrels? Any ideas?
What buffer are you running? It's likely increasing back pressure and bolt speed.

mildot

03-11-15, 12:05

I'm going to say the "standard" I'll have to check. I know that's not a good answer. More to follow. It seems like it's not getting enough gas, since it's not ejecting or reloading, the BC is new as well?

mildot

03-11-15, 12:12

Looks like it's an "H" buffer. I'm no SME just so you know. Thanks

BufordTJustice

03-11-15, 12:18

What buffer are you running? It's likely increasing back pressure and bolt speed.
Actually, it's probably decreasing backpressure. But in an SBR, going H2 is basically mandatory.

mtdawg169

03-11-15, 12:19

Actually, it's probably decreasing backpressure. But in an SBR, going H2 is basically mandatory.
Over an A2? That's surprising. Decreased back pressure and increasing buffer weight seems counter intuitive.

mildot

03-11-15, 12:20

Actually, it's probably decreasing backpressure. But in an SBR, going H2 is basically mandatory.

That's kinda what I thought, since it's not ejecting or reloading the rifle. Good place to get a "H2" online? Thanks BTJ :)

BufordTJustice

03-11-15, 12:45

That's kinda what I thought, since it's not ejecting or reloading the rifle. Good place to get a "H2" online? Thanks BTJ :)
BCM or G&R tactical. I get all mine from G&R.

What muzzle device did you transition from?

mildot

03-11-15, 12:47

BCM or G&R tactical. I get all mine from G&R.

What muzzle device did you transition from?

A2, however it's a "brand new" BC & and upper so a colleague of mine suggested that it may need a few more rds to seat the gas rings? I only manged to get about 10 down range today.

mtdawg169

03-11-15, 12:49

A2, however it's a "brand new" BC & and upper so a colleague of mine suggested that it may need a few more rds to seat the gas rings? I only manged to get about 10 down range today.
Did it function with the A2? Or did you swap it out before firing the new upper?

mildot

03-11-15, 12:50

Did it function with the A2? Or did you swap it out before firing the new upper?

I swapped it out before I used it. Don't know how wise that was now?

mtdawg169

03-11-15, 12:52

I swapped it out before I used it. Don't know how wise that was now?
With that being the case, I'd say it's not a muzzle device issue.

mildot

03-11-15, 12:54

With that being the case, I'd say it's not a muzzle device issue.

I agree. I wasn't pointing a finger at the EFAB, just wondering if anyone might have had a similar experience? And it was worth mentioning that I had changed out the original A2.

mtdawg169

03-11-15, 12:56

What ammo were you using?

mildot

03-11-15, 12:57

What ammo were you using?

Run of the mill Federal 55gr Ball.

mtdawg169

03-11-15, 13:00

Run of the mill Federal 55gr Ball.
M193 or American Eagle? The gun may just need to be shot with full power milspec ammo until it smooths out. Like BufordTJustice said, an H2 is generally mandatory on a shorty like your Colt.

mildot

03-11-15, 13:02

M193 or American Eagle? The gun may just need to be shot with full power milspec ammo until it smooths out. Like BufordTJustice said, an H2 is generally mandatory on a shorty like your Colt.

AE, I'm going to give it some more rds down range before I doing anything. Thanks for the excellent feedback here, it's appreciated!

BufordTJustice

03-11-15, 13:06

A2, however it's a "brand new" BC & and upper so a colleague of mine suggested that it may need a few more rds to seat the gas rings? I only manged to get about 10 down range today.
Yeah, that's not a lot of rounds down the pipe. Lube it really wet and use some full house 5.56 pressure xm193 55gr or m855 62gr ammo. The commercial pressure stuff is to weak to get started on.

I wouldn't EF with the buffer until you run about 100 full power rounds through it.

mildot

03-11-15, 13:08

Yeah, that's not a lot of rounds down the pipe. Lube it really wet and use some full house 5.56 pressure xm193 55gr or m855 62gr ammo. The commercial pressure stuff is to weak to get started on.

Thanks, that seems to be the consensus. From what little I saw I liked the EFAB.

BufordTJustice

03-11-15, 14:30

Thanks, that seems to be the consensus. From what little I saw I liked the EFAB.
I'm confident you'll be pleased with it. If you don't mind, can you keep us updated on your progress?

mildot

03-11-15, 14:36

I'm confident you'll be pleased with it. If you don't mind, can you keep us updated on your progress?

Work & the weather has been a real PIA, but I'll "check in" once I get it sorted, BTW I picked up a .308 version for the 901, I had so much confidence. :)

BufordTJustice

04-14-15, 17:01

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/14/0d662e208cb43daa9685ce1c5c18a809.jpg

Shot a comparo between a 16" BCM middy ELW-F with BCM comp and my 18" with rifle gas and EFAB. Videos are processing with Vimeo now. Links coming shortly.

The 16" is running a std BCM BCG and Vltor A5H2 buffer. Std Vltor action spring.

My 18" is the handy rifle with LMT e-carrier, A5H1 buffer, and (new to my rifle) a tubbs AR10 flat wire action spring.

Yes, the AR10 version. It's superbly linear and performs much better (smoother, less overall gun movement) than the AR15 version of the tubbs flat wire spring. The video speaks volumes.

Ammo was Federal AE 55gr .223 in the 100 round value pack. Notice the complete lack of flash of the EFAB. The BCM comp had a small flash emanating directly from the exhaust ports of the brake, but it didn't show on the video. The EFAB, none from any angle. Note that the EFAB is on an 18" barrel vs a 16" for the BCM comp.

BufordTJustice

04-14-15, 18:42

http://vimeo.com/124985304
BCM comp

&

http://vimeo.com/124985377
Precision armament EFAB

BC98

04-14-15, 20:33

That seemed like a pretty drastic difference in recoil impulse between the two guns, as well. Impressive videos.

Uprange41

04-14-15, 22:21

How's the concussion difference between the EFAB and the BCM?

BufordTJustice

04-15-15, 11:17

How's the concussion difference between the EFAB and the BCM?
The EFAB feels and acts like an A2 with regard to concussion. The BCM is certainly not bad in this area, but it's nothing like the EFAB.

BufordTJustice

04-15-15, 11:47

That seemed like a pretty drastic difference in recoil impulse between the two guns, as well. Impressive videos.
That shows how much the recoil spring, rifle length gas system, and SLR Rifleworks sentry 7 adjustable gas block can do even over a BCM 16" middy (which is already properly gassed).

vicious_cb

04-15-15, 14:57

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison but interesting none the less.

BufordTJustice

04-15-15, 19:33

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison but interesting none the less.
Correct. Definitely not apples to apples.

BufordTJustice

05-11-15, 16:43

Excellent comparison with the EFAB, legacy AFAB mini, and redesigned AFAB. They all did very well, with the new AFAB and the EFAB having ZERO flash and very little concussion according to the tester. They appear to be some of his favorites.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-2/

mildot

05-12-15, 06:50

BTJ, good read, do you have any plans to give the 308 version a whirl? I have one, but have to see my smith to get it mounted. Thanks

BufordTJustice

05-12-15, 08:47

BTJ, good read, do you have any plans to give the 308 version a whirl? I have one, but have to see my smith to get it mounted. Thanks
Well, considering I don't yet own a .308, the answer is "not right now". But, it's at the tippy top of the list.

mildot

05-12-15, 09:18

Mines going on my Colt 901.

BufordTJustice

05-12-15, 10:27

Mines going on my Colt 901.
Pix or it didn't happen. Lol

turnburglar

05-12-15, 12:50

How are these afab/efab devices in the sound and concussion department compared to the A2?

BufordTJustice

05-12-15, 15:21

How are these afab/efab devices in the sound and concussion department compared to the A2?
Virtually identical to the A2 for the EFAB. It honestly doesn't feel like a brake in terms of blast unless you're indoors and hugging a stall wall. Even then, it's going to be one of the most mild brakes you've ever been around.

Uprange41

05-12-15, 19:38

The EFAB is really calling me for my go-to rifle, but that M4-72... I want that on a game gun.

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BufordTJustice

05-12-15, 19:45

The EFAB is really calling me for my go-to rifle, but that M4-72... I want that on a game gun.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And, if you're on a budget, the AFAB now shares many of the same positive qualities, though to lesser degrees, at about 2/3rds the price.

Uprange41

05-12-15, 21:58

And, if you're on a budget, the AFAB now shares many of the same positive qualities, though to lesser degrees, at about 2/3rds the price.
True, and I do see where the new AFAB supposedly is a better flash hider than the Mini, as well.

I've currently got the Mod 0 on my BCM, and it does everything I want, considering it was free with the rifle. I don't know that I'd pay $90 for it (in fact, I'm sure I wouldn't), but I'm content with it. It's like an A2 plus.

I've also got an FSC-556, which, aside from the nasally sensation and golf ball-sized fireball with some ammo, keeps the muzzle noticeably steadier. I like the BCM better for an all-around device, and keep the FSC on my "toy" rifle, but if I could get the muzzle control that the FSC provides without the flash or nasally feeling, I'd be all over it. If you were to pick an all-around device, would you stick with the free BCM, or go for the new AFAB or an EFAB?

I'm not too hung up on the money side of things, but if I am to change, I'd like to have as little flash and blast as possible, while offering enhanced muzzle stability (recoil reduction isn't as important to me as simply being stable). Rifle is a 16" mid-length/FA Carrier/H buffer.

BufordTJustice

05-13-15, 07:49

True, and I do see where the new AFAB supposedly is a better flash hider than the Mini, as well.

I've currently got the Mod 0 on my BCM, and it does everything I want, considering it was free with the rifle. I don't know that I'd pay $90 for it (in fact, I'm sure I wouldn't), but I'm content with it. It's like an A2 plus.

I've also got an FSC-556, which, aside from the nasally sensation and golf ball-sized fireball with some ammo, keeps the muzzle noticeably steadier. I like the BCM better for an all-around device, and keep the FSC on my "toy" rifle, but if I could get the muzzle control that the FSC provides without the flash or nasally feeling, I'd be all over it. If you were to pick an all-around device, would you stick with the free BCM, or go for the new AFAB or an EFAB?

I'm not too hung up on the money side of things, but if I am to change, I'd like to have as little flash and blast as possible, while offering enhanced muzzle stability (recoil reduction isn't as important to me as simply being stable). Rifle is a 16" mid-length/FA Carrier/H buffer.
Money no object, EFAB would be my choice. Also, take a look at an H2 or even H3 buffer to help settle the gun down even more.

Uprange41

05-13-15, 22:14

Money no object, EFAB would be my choice. Also, take a look at an H2 or even H3 buffer to help settle the gun down even more.
I've been meaning to try an H2 and H3. I'll give them and the EFAB a go in the next few weeks, thanks!

BufordTJustice

05-14-15, 07:18

I've been meaning to try an H2 and H3. I'll give them and the EFAB a go in the next few weeks, thanks!
Happy to help. Feel free to report back here with your progress or to start a new thread. I'm interested to hear your results and impressions.

lennyo3034

05-27-15, 09:11

This thread got me to join this forum. Excellent info here.

I have the AFAB mini and have put more than 10k rounds down it. It is my favorite muzzle device. I've compared it against the griffin flash comp, and I definitely prefer the AFAB. It's slightly flatter with a similar recoil reduction. However the AFAB has less concussion and flash than the griffin. I've been considering a MAMs, but it seems it may be more of a "sidegrade" as opposed to "upgrade" over the AFAB-mini.

saki302

05-27-15, 18:19

Awesome review, thanks :)

I just ordered up a 7.62 EFAB for my Noveske upper. I was running an SJC titan, but I decided I'd rather have a little emore recoil than be blown to smithereens every time I went shooting :D

I have an original AFAB-mini on two 5.56 uppers- one thing they have is INCREDIBLE machining. They look more impressive (machining-wise) than the newer ones, even though the newer ones may have better flash reduction.
I love the sound and results of the AFAB- hardly any blast. My uncle bought one on the spot just for the machine work after seeing mine.

-Dave

BufordTJustice

07-17-15, 11:10

Just found out about a new review video comparing the EFAB to an A2 on a 10.x" barrel. Worth a watch.

Spoiler alert: the EFAB wins.

https://youtu.be/1EYBW-AMu8s

MJDGator

07-20-15, 20:35

How do you think the EFAB would work on an 8" or 9" barrel (300 BLK not 5.56)? Their site mentions 10.5" and up.

BufordTJustice

07-21-15, 08:25

How do you think the EFAB would work on an 8" or 9" barrel (300 BLK not 5.56)? Their site mentions 10.5" and up.
Well, gas flow for 300 black is going to be inherently different than 5.56. With the outstanding performance of the 5.56 version, I can't see any current device doing much better on a barrel that short in my mind.

tom12.7

07-21-15, 13:29

I currently run the 7.62 MAMS on a few 9" and 9.5" 300 Blackout guns. Seems to work well enough, but the gas volume for 300 Blackout is much less than the .308 guns, so I wouldn't expect the same gains from it on a 16" .308 gun compared to the shorter 300 Blackout. I would expect the EFAB would have similar results, a gain, maybe not as much of one.

epfrank

04-25-16, 13:36

Basically none from the shooter. Barely more from the MAMS at a 45 from the muzzle. So little difference, if i hadn't A-B'd them back to back, I probably would not have been able to tell the difference.

I just got a new scar 17s. I heard the PWS from factory is very good but have tons of gas shoot out on both sides and is LOUD.
Will the EFAB a good upgrade for the PWS muzzle brake ? Thanks

BufordTJustice

04-25-16, 22:14

I just got a new scar 17s. I heard the PWS from factory is very good but have tons of gas shoot out on both sides and is LOUD.
Will the EFAB a good upgrade for the PWS muzzle brake ? Thanks
Yessir.

Malig8r

04-25-16, 22:57

BTJ, I bought an EFAB based upon your review. Placed it on a new Sionics 11.5 upper but haven't been out to shoot with it yet...

Looking forward to when I do!

badness

04-26-16, 00:38

It is impossible to find a new MAMS right now so that is definetly a factor. Curious what KAC will do if they offer both a stainless and Inconel or do any changes.

As a non-mount the EFAB is sure impressive especially if it beats the MAMS out in flash suppression, of coarse there is a little give in recoil reduction.

This cut-away pic is interesting, explains some of the flash suppresion as the perforations allow the gases to expand more as they are redirected.

http://precisionarmament.com/v1/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PRECISION-ARMAMENT-EFAB-HYBRID-SBR-FLASH-HIDER-COMPENSATOR-CUTAWAY1.jpg

Yes.

Isn't the industry lucky there was someone out there with the observational skills and forethought to deduce that gas redirection through the wall of the muzzle device would end up creating one of the best muzzle devices in the industry. :rolleyes:

Much props to the engineers at Precision Armament to make that concept a reality.

EDIT: oh...they're in new york. No wonder they were given the idea.

tom12.7

04-26-16, 17:05

While it looks "cool", some may say that it would really need more development. Let's see how it goes.

badness

04-26-16, 18:45

While it looks "cool", some may say that it would really need more development. Let's see how it goes.

only those with a specific agenda to sway people away from it.

Not that it matters to me.

tom12.7

04-28-16, 17:05

Yeah, to make a better product.
There are items coined "pinnacle products". This would not be one of them, but a further development of this "idea" may lead to one. Let's see how it goes.

BufordTJustice

04-28-16, 17:11

BTJ, I bought an EFAB based upon your review. Placed it on a new Sionics 11.5 upper but haven't been out to shoot with it yet...

Looking forward to when I do!

Outstanding. Report back once you get it to the range.

I'm sure that PA will continue to refine their design. However, if they just made a SiCo MAAD/Trifecta or ASR can mount version they would sell a ton of these like RIGHT NOW. I'm using the Trifecta brake on my 11.5" right now as my can mount and it's f*cking brutal, with inferior muzzle control to the EFAB. My 18" wears a BE Meyers SiCo 249 Saker can mount device. Blast is about equal to the EFAB and muzzle control is inferior. I'm sure the 249 would beat it (and everything else, for any price) in terms of flash but, again, I miss the EFAB.

PA, you listening? Get with SiCo and make it happen. Dismissed. ;)

tom12.7

04-28-16, 17:37

Their "radialish" porting directions may not be ideal. Their internal volume to collect the uncorked pressure kernel to redirect pressure instead of simulating a longer barrel length may be improved. etc. Let's see how it goes. Maybe they could include this into a popular suppressor mount?

BufordTJustice

04-28-16, 17:48

tom12.7

04-28-16, 18:17

saki302

04-28-16, 18:23

For what they intended to achieve (I think) their design is just about perfect. Want more rearward porting? Buy a PWS, or one of countless others.

The EFAB isn't the strongest brake, but it hides flash VERY well for a brake (among if not THE best flash hiding brake), and is very quiet to the shooter.
Machining on the EFAB/AFAB is also EXCELLENT. I'd put their quality right up there with KAC. Seriously.

I run one on a Noveske N6, got tired of getting blasted to hell by the PWS and SJC brakes I used to run. It still provides noticeable braking on the rifle, and my neighbors complain less (it's louder to the sides than the back, but still not bad).

Living in the people's republic, can mounts aren't much of a concern, though I see why free staters would want the option :D

Aside from a suppressor mount, I wouldn't change much. You'll either increase blast and flash turning it into a PWS, or decrease braking even more and turn it into a plain flash hider.

-Dave

BufordTJustice

04-28-16, 18:30

On a basic level, there are some items that could be addressed. Forward porting is always a concern, rearward and true radial porting can be a balance. The volume in area for the gas to work the said porting can improve things.
Let's see what they come up with that fits their requirements.
Has anyone ever seen an original Colt moderator that acted better in function for a shorter length barrel than a longer base barrel for use? It does not happen, because that concept didn't work. It acted as a gas accumulator for function that simulated a shorter one with a longer barrel. Adding porting to that said device does not differ much from to porting a longer base barrel. If barrel porting is your key, then there are simpler methods that aren't as complex.
There are many "downsides" going this way, but a few positives may emerge. Just depends on what the use is. Let us see how they do.

In substantive, real world terms, what would these downsides be?

This is starting to sound like a "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the rest" discussion. Every device is a tradeoff in some manner. There are no tradeoff-free muzzle devices. I'm just struggling to apply your observations to the discussion. I'm not challenging you. Help me understand what you're saying.

badness

04-29-16, 02:25

Yeah, to make a better product.
There are items coined "pinnacle products". This would not be one of them, but a further development of this "idea" may lead to one. Let's see how it goes.

When did i say this was the pinnacle of muzzle devices? But then of course it's pretty obvious by now people don't like to read what i actually write and make up shit just to manipulate others into thinking i said something i didn't.

badness

05-03-16, 19:53

In substantive, real world terms, what would these downsides be?

This is starting to sound like a "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the rest" discussion. Every device is a tradeoff in some manner. There are no tradeoff-free muzzle devices. I'm just struggling to apply your observations to the discussion. I'm not challenging you. Help me understand what you're saying.

I knew he wasn't going to answer your question.

His reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.

His intention is to sway people from buying a product so that PA or some other company can make a better one? Except why would someone sway people from buying a good product. It's one thing to tell people NOT to buy a shitty product, but then when you go around and sway people not to buy a GOOD product in the HOPES that they make a better one is retarded. If everyone thought like that, then no one would own anything because eventually a better product in some way shape or form is going to be invented.

tom12.7

05-05-16, 17:28

badness

05-07-16, 04:19

Would you rather have me cite open information and/or information that belongs to myself, or would you rather continue the conversation via PM?
I'm open to either. Sorry that you got burned, that happens sometimes unfortunately, but we can move on from here.

Go ahead.

As i told you in the PM that you already sent me prior to this post, i don't have any financial dog in this fight on whether or not the muzzle device is considered good or not.

I don't know what you mean that i got "burned". That, to me, would insinuate that i was screwed over in some business deal.

I wasn't, as i told you.

I had a private conversation with some people and they were manipulated into recording my conversations with them. This falls into industrial espionage territory than being burned with legalities in a business deal.

The mods here know what happened. Which is why whenever i begin to bring it up, they immediately delete my posts, to cover up their illegal actions.

SeriousStudent

05-07-16, 16:55

Badness:

No, your posts got deleted because you don't know when to knock it off, after a Mod/IP tells you to stop. JSantoro warned you twice, and you did not take the hint.

If you do not like it here, there's plenty of Internet to go around. That's a hint, too.

Oh, and if you want to accuse us of being complicit in illegal acts, you might want to head on down the road.