View Full Version : Are Double Stack Subcompacts Becoming Obsolete?
Unkle Kurt
02-03-15, 22:34
With all the rage the last few years of single stack 9's, 40's, and for whatever reason a 45 for carry guns as well as the much anticipated single stack Glock 9mm, what place does the subcompacts still have? The Glock 19 is probably the most recommended carry gun as well as the one most often used by instructors. Others like the G17, M&P, VP9, etc. seem to be popular as well for most folks but whenever something smaller is needed I feel like the trend is to go for the single stacks now.
How many of you still have or carry a subcompact (G26, M&P compact, FNS compact)? I have a G17 that I do carry on occasion but also have a G26 that gets carried way more. I sometimes carry it with the 12+1 round mags or even a G19 mag which I know makes it essentially a G19. However there are those times when the flush fitting 10 rounder goes in for a smaller package. I see it as being more versatile than the G19 and for me shoots just as good and almost as good as my 17.
What do you think? Is there still a niche for subcompact double stacks or is that losing ground to the compacts (for greater capacity, sight radius, etc.) and single stacks (when more concealability is desired)?
I think they are obsolete and have been for some time.
crusader377
02-03-15, 22:56
I don't think there is much of a niche left for double stack subcompacts. From my observation the vast majority of CCW holders are going with lighter an easier to conceal weapons like the single stack M&P shield. If you want maximum capability a compact pistol like a Glock 19 has better shootability and capacity than a double stack subcompact for not much greater size.
brushy bill
02-03-15, 23:23
Very little is obsolete. I still see posts / mag articles about CAS revolvers being repurposed for day to day or night stand carry. If it shoots, it is better than fists/knives and not "obsolete". Better options? Yes. Obsolete, no.
MountainRaven
02-03-15, 23:30
Obsolescent is probably the better term.
warpedcamshaft
02-04-15, 00:03
Not in my opinion.
Double stacks offer a different feature set and carry differently with different body types/attire.
The ability to have magazine/holster/sight/training commonality has been a big asset for me (Glock 17/19/26). Also, more ammunition in the firearm is a good thing. (7+1 vs 10+1 for example)
Guns such as the Shield/PPS/PM9 have their place for sure, but firearms such as the Glock 26/ M&P Compact/ P2000SK are still very relevant.
My opinion? No. It's a toss up whether I carry my 19 or 26 more. For me the difference in size makes for a much more concealable gun, but I still feel that the 26 is sufficient--10 rounds, night sights, and easy to shoot. I don't have a slim compact, but I plan to add a 42 to the stable as soon as possible. But I see its role as a niche gun--a backup if I felt the need, or something to carry when the alternative is no gun. YMMV, and everyone has their own situation, but for my needs the 26 is a great weapon and still very much relevant.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-04-15, 00:17
They were never a great idea. But frankly most of the new single stack guns are not as trustworthy as the old subcompacts. I would certainly trust a G26 over a G42, Shield, Kahr, etc. Of course, I think everybody should be carrying a J-frame.:cool:
I can't conceal my g19 as well in the summer months so I use the m&p 9c until it's time for hoody weather. So no, I find them quite useful.
Eurodriver
02-04-15, 06:29
So many people seem to say if you can carry a G26 you can carry a G19.
I have found that is simply not true.
They were never a great idea. But frankly most of the new single stack guns are not as trustworthy as the old subcompacts. I would certainly trust a G26 over a G42, Shield, Kahr, etc. Of course, I think everybody should be carrying a J-frame.:cool:
Curious - what makes you say they aren't as trustworthy?
So many people seem to say if you can carry a G26 you can carry a G19.
I have found that is simply not true.
Well, it keeps it simple for the simpletons, or people who really don't even carry a gun. ;)
I don't see the attraction of the single stacks. I carried a single stack for many years (Sig P239) and now carry a double stack (P2000SK).
IMO, the single stack is NOT easier to conceal, it's just DIFFERENT. Yes, it can be thinner, but often at the expense of a longer grip. Different.
Sure, each will work better for some people.
I see the ability to carry more ammunition, and more importantly, compatibility with full size mags much more important than a bit skinnier profile.
I carry 41 rounds with my SK. That's just not happening with a single stack.
Yah, single stacks are all the hotness right now. But that doesn't mean anything other than they are the hotness right now.
-john
I don't they're obsolete. I don't have one, if I were a Glock guy I would carry a G19, not a 26. But for some there will always be a place for one. My preference is for a compact single stack, something large enough to shoot well but slender enough to comfortably slip into the waist band.
Not obsolete, but not for me. I can carry an m&p fs most of the time. When I can't, a smaller gun of the same width won't work, but a shield hides well. I have no use for a gun thick as a fs but shorter.
I also have no use for a j frame as the shield hold more rounds, and hides just fine and saves training on a new platform. 2 guns works for me.
I think the word "obsolete" has all but lost its meaning.
There's very little in the firearm world that's "obsolete" as there has been very little major advancement in small arms in over a century.
What people want, or think they want, is always changing however.
With all the rage the last few years of single stack 9's, 40's, and for whatever reason a 45 for carry guns as well as the much anticipated single stack Glock 9mm, what place does the subcompacts still have? The Glock 19 is probably the most recommended carry gun as well as the one most often used by instructors. Others like the G17, M&P, VP9, etc. seem to be popular as well for most folks but whenever something smaller is needed I feel like the trend is to go for the single stacks now.
How many of you still have or carry a subcompact (G26, M&P compact, FNS compact)? I have a G17 that I do carry on occasion but also have a G26 that gets carried way more. I sometimes carry it with the 12+1 round mags or even a G19 mag which I know makes it essentially a G19. However there are those times when the flush fitting 10 rounder goes in for a smaller package. I see it as being more versatile than the G19 and for me shoots just as good and almost as good as my 17.
What do you think? Is there still a niche for subcompact double stacks or is that losing ground to the compacts (for greater capacity, sight radius, etc.) and single stacks (when more concealability is desired)?
Single stack are the trend because that's what's being marketed heavily and produced and people like new things. Do you prefer more bullets or less? If the latter, can you CCW it or not? etc, etc. I see the single stack as having a niche to fill for some, and far from a replacement for anything that has a higher capacity, be it sub compact, compact, or FS. Personally, I like FS when/where possible, which is most of the time I CCW. Personally, I think people make too big a deal of concealability and you could wear a LAW rocket down your pants and most people never notice it.
Obsolete? No. Like everything else, it runs in cycles. If concealability wasn't an issue and open carry was not a current societal pariah, I suspect we would see an endless variety of pistols hanging on gun belts...and single stacks would have zero advantage over double stacks. I really don't understand downsizing though if you can conceal a doublestack. If you can conceal it then carry it. And I am completely confused by single stacks shipped with only one mag. Just charge me the additional and throw in a second mag when I buy it. It's always about the balance between capacity and concealability. But then I'm no expert.
Just pretend this is witty.
Nytcrawler93
02-04-15, 09:55
I have an XDM 3.8 compact that I feel is super versatile. Not obsolete at all. I can make the grip huge for capacity or shrink it down. That being said, I carry my PM9 more because it is easier. Neither have EVER had a failure of any kind so I have the utmost confidence with both.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I once considered PPS to replace my P2000SK. What I found that for some 1/4-1/3 less thickness and virtually same "silhouette" I can get pistol with much lower capacity and harder to shoot accurately (for me - I'm not sure if it just did not fit me, or P2000SK is just more accurate) and did not feel as good in my hand as P2000SK does.
Now, some would say that 1/4or 1/3 less thickness is a big deal. In fact it is not. At least for me, as I carry IWB or AIWB (recently almost only AIWB). When you add holster, pants and belt thickness to pistol, then actual overall saving is not that big. Of course there is also issue of slide shape. P2000SK slide tapers toward top, making it easier to conceal, while blocky slide of Glock 26 make it appear bigger.
On the other hand, I rather do not see double stack sub-compact like P2000SK or G26 really suitable for pocket carry, as in this case only sole thickness of handgun applies. No problem to me, as pocket carry is banned in my area anyway.
Gun guys are fickle.
Me, I love my Glock 19 and don't want a single stack.
Next, some gun mfgs. will come up with something new and many will abandon the single stack for the latest thing to come along.
And, in the gun world there's really no such thing as obsolescence.
1911's are still going strong and many like to shoot black powder.
So...
Gun guys are fickle.
Yup. Personally I think most are better served by sticking with a dependable, accurate weapon than the endless "flavor of the month" cycle of chasing whatever the gun rags / forums are pushing.
But then again, I like that cycle since they usually have to unload their older guns to pay for the latest and greatest. ;)
Not for me.
G26 all day every day. 11 rounds, no problem concealing, no problem carrying, better reload capacity than any single-stack, shoots like a G19...
Not obsolete but personally I don't see a lot of point anymore. I have a M&P9C that I've switched to carrying with the FS magazine + xgrip and there's little to no concealability difference between them to me. It's to the point that within the next few days I'm probably going to trade my 9C on a 9FS. The FS will be my primary CC weapon with the Shield and to a much lesser extent the Bodyguard .380 for those times when dress or circumstance does not allow for effective concealment of the FS.
So many people seem to say if you can carry a G26 you can carry a G19.
I have found that is simply not true.
I have never fully understood this either, I carry appendix and most of the time it's either a G17 or G19; but the grip length on a G26 is all I can conceal in certain situations.
SpyderMan2k4
02-04-15, 13:17
I did sell my subcompact. In most situations I can conceal a G17 without much issue. However, with work being a NPE, a small single stack disappears to the point that I know I can be around the same people all day every day, moving around and doing all that the job requires without the risk of being made. For me, the double stack SC couldn't disappear as well.
Psalms144.1
02-04-15, 13:53
Not obsolete as far as I'm concerned. I have a G26 BUG for my G19, and it sees more "all day every day" carry than the G19 (it hides in an Ankle Glove nicely even under my PJs). The fact that it feeds off the same magazine as my primary means I don't have to carry a separate reload for my BUG - which is an all around good thing.
Now, don't take this to mean I think the double-stack subcompact is OPTIMAL - I would never reach for my G26 over my G19 if I heard something go bump in the night - but it's definitely not obsolete for me and many others like me...
Don Robison
02-05-15, 13:18
What's old is new, this latest trend of single stacks is an updated repeat of the mid/late 70s through the 80s love affair with compact single stack carry guns like the cut down 39s, Officer sized 1911s, AMT "Backups" etc. The biggest difference this go around is the manufacturers have embraced it vs. back then when they had no interest in the idea.
Are double stack compacts obsolete, I don't think so, but I am interested to see how long the trend plays out this time.
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When someone makes one that can hang with a G26 in the reliability, durabilty, shoot ability, and accuracy department.
I'll buy one.
richiecotite
02-05-15, 15:05
Double stack compacts are not becoming obsolete.
I would say right now, they're out of vogue. Different things.
For me, my m&p9c conceals considerably better than my 5" m&p9 pro, has sufficient capacity, while still being shootable.
i still love shooting my CZ75 PCR, but comfort,not concealment issues, made me go with the PPS for daily carry. Considered the baby CZ, but wide IWB is too nasty for me. Pocket J-frame when I'm lazy or no belt and govt.1911 occasionally, for which OWB is surprisingly comfy and low profile if you have some love-handle for camo.
For special circumstances I'm still going with the double-stack and back up besides.
I bought the no safety shield when it first came out and immediately fell in love. "This is the only gun I'll ever need!" I thought.. I even put my glock 26 on the market, thinking I'd never pull it out of the safe again.
6 months went by, the newness wore off on my shield, and I realized that I really couldn't shoot it as well as my glocks. Here I am, carrying my Glock 26 nearly every day again.. Now its the shield that rides the safe..
THey are not obsolete for me. I still love my 26. Honestly, the size reduction I would get with a single stack is so minuscule, that I really do not need it. I have no problem concealing my 26 in any clothing. I can even pocket carry it with some of my pants. But hey, different strokes.
I went through the G26, P229, M&P 9c, PT145...none of those are still with me. Too thick and bulky, I finally bought a LCP for CC and would only carry the doubles in the winter months. I finally decided I wanted a little better caliber and it took several months after ditching the 229 for me to finally settle on the Shield. I really can't imagine a better conceal carry pistol that's also shootable out to 20-25 yards. When I do get bored I carry my p220...Once in a great while I'll pull out the P-09.
Weight has a lot to do with choosing some subcompacts. Metal frame pistols are noticeably heavier than the same size polymer pistol, of course. The guy selecting an 8 shot alloy frame pistol will likely be carrying a heavier weapon than the man who selects the G26, which also accepts its big brothers higher capacity mags. The G26 still has great appeal in those states restricting high capacity magazines. Some will remember that the 10 shot subcompacts arose after the 1994 assault weapon ban to fill a certain niche. The subcompacts--as has been stated above--are not as trendy as before. That said, if your subcompact works for you, hang on to it.
About a pistols weight. Until I became a senior citizen, I never understood why people bitched about a handgun being heavy. Now I proclaim that those air weight J frames sure are nice.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-05-15, 19:30
They were never a great idea. But frankly most of the new single stack guns are not as trustworthy as the old subcompacts. I would certainly trust a G26 over a G42, Shield, Kahr, etc. Of course, I think everybody should be carrying a J-frame.
Curious - what makes you say they aren't as trustworthy?
From the examples I have seen and owned, and monitoring the forums the new breed single stacks like the Shield and G42 are much more problematic than the old school guns like the G26, P2000SK, etc. It may be because the G26 and P2000s were evolutions of proven designs, while the new single stacks are entirely new guns--and most of these gun companies don't seem to be spending a lot of time on engineering anymore.
What do you think? Is there still a niche for subcompact double stacks or is that losing ground to the compacts (for greater capacity, sight radius, etc.) and single stacks (when more concealability is desired)?
Single-stack subcompacts are the flavor of the moment, and when the big manufacturers get them sorted out they'll be even more popular than they are now. But there are still plenty of jobs the double-column subcompacts handle very well, especially if you're already geared up with mags, holsters, parts, and tools for their bigger cousins.
My G26 is an awkward little bastard to shoot and reloads are slower than with a G19 or G17. But it holds twice as much ammo as a J-frame, I can reload it with a G17 magazine, it fits in all of my G17 holsters, and there's a ton of superb aftermarket support for it. I carry a full-sized or compact gun when possible, but when I can't, I carry the G26 with a G17 mag.
Okie John
Dress around your carry gun, don't carry a gun around your dress. Clothing styles have gone to more of a tailored fit as opposed to the lose ness in the 90's and guns are needing to be slimmer to match.
I am in no way a Glock fan boy but look it up, the G26 has won the national Glock shoot over G34's. They designed it with a thicker barrel over the 17,19 and 34 lending it to better inherent accuracy.
The new breed of single stacks are too skinny for me, the grips are uncomfortable to shoot and don't effectively tame recoil. I am more than happy to wear a shirt that is one size bigger as to accommodate the slightly thicker frame of the G26 over a shield or ppk etc.
From the examples I have seen and owned, and monitoring the forums the new breed single stacks like the Shield and G42 are much more problematic than the old school guns like the G26, P2000SK, etc. It may be because the G26 and P2000s were evolutions of proven designs, while the new single stacks are entirely new guns--and most of these gun companies don't seem to be spending a lot of time on engineering anymore.
Just curious, what is your sample size? While the various forums are useful tools, in most cases I don't take them too seriously. To many "I know a guy who..." stories. There is a place for all of these tools, but context is key when using them. No fanboy of any particular make and model here, but in the case of the Shield, we had a T&E sample of the first generation with close to 10k rounds through it with no issues. With over thirty in service, again, we see no issues. I am not a real fan of the Glock, for mostly subjective reasons, but must concur the 26 is excellent when it comes to accuracy and reliability. The only Glock I have ever owned that I regret selling.
From the examples I have seen and owned, and monitoring the forums the new breed single stacks like the Shield and G42 are much more problematic than the old school guns like the G26, P2000SK, etc. It may be because the G26 and P2000s were evolutions of proven designs, while the new single stacks are entirely new guns--and most of these gun companies don't seem to be spending a lot of time on engineering anymore.
My understanding with these little guns is that the bulk of the problems reported are really due to the user limpwristing. It can be difficult to get a good grip on the little things to begin with.
I carry a G26, I have a Shield 9mm, (I would carry it, but it's not on my CA permit) I have been running the shield to see if it will go on my permit, I prefer shooting it with the longer mag, it has been completely reliable.
To the ops question, I have been going deep into 1911s lately, in CA there is basically no capacity advantage to a double stack 9, so use what you like.
Obviously if I knew I was walking into some s**t and I could only have a hand gun I would be looking for my G34 and some standard cap mags... Or 33 rounders.
I will gladly get any obsolete, stock, but mintish, Gen3 G26 off your hands for a decent price. Just PM me.
I sold my G26, it was accurate, I shot it well and function was boringly reliable. At the end of the day I can conceal a 19 in any attire I wear just as easy but I can draw the 19 much easier / quicker and have 50% more rounds before a reload.
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